hipsterpants
Member
Warning: This is a long-ass post. But if you're going to respond please at least like skim it or something.
First of all, here’s the official thread theme (Marvel pls get your shit together and get a theme this memorable for your movies, even Fox has something for X-Men!)
Also here's the movie's official poster. Which I really love even though it probably isn't that great.
After years and years of reading “best superhero movie” threads containing posts (sometimes rather long) about how “Spider-Man 2 is the GOAT superhero movie” I decided I’d finally give the first two movies a rewatch for the first time since I was around 10 years old, seeing the movie in theaters and, as far as I can recall, enjoying it a lot. But 12 years ago is a long time, and at most I could only recall a few small parts. So last night I decided to finally give Spider-Man 1 and 2 both a rewatch and make a final decision on where these movies stand in the ever increasingly long list of movies about people in silly costumes fighting other people in silly costumes. I consider myself a pretty big fan.
I’ll start with Spider-Man 1. It’s a pretty good movie. Nothing mind-blowing nowadays, but still a lot of fun. The biggest problem the movie has though is that it is most definitely dated by today’s standards. And I’m not just referring to the bad CGI (though not as terrible as I was expecting, admittedly) but the story itself. Now I know they were trying to make Peter come off as a super awkward nerd that’s hopelessly in love, but by modern standards he just comes off as a creep. There’s also some wonky writing, like a part where Norman is all like “MJ sucks” and Harry is all like “MJ doesn’t suck!” and then MJ asks Harry why he didn’t defend her, to which Harry then says that he can’t turn his back on his dad (????). Also I have no fucking clue what MJ sees in Peter. I guess it’s hinted that she knows, deep down, that he’s really Spider-Man. But it’s whatever. Also Willem Dafoe is amazing. So yeah, good movie, but nothing too ground-breaking.
But Spider-Man 2 though, damn.
Coming off Spidey 1, I wasn’t expecting much, even with the high praise this movie gets. But having finally watched for the first time in over a decade, I can safely say that it stands as one of my favorite movies of all time and handily my favorite superhero movie ever (rewatch of Nolan’s Batman pending). Seriously, I fucking love this movie, and I’m going to desperately try to turn that love into words that actually make sense to read.
The real power in this movie is in its theme of what it means to be a hero. It’s about the sacrifices you must make and the hardships you need to go through in order to do the right thing. It’s a theme that’s universal and easy to relate to. In comparison to the modern world of comic book movies, I’d say that the first half of Captain America: The First Avenger is an apt comparison. It’s about wanting to do what’s right for the right reasons, even when doing so is a struggle (it should be mentioned that that chunk of a movie is often mentioned as the best work the MCU has ever done). I’m going to pretend to be a Spider-Man expert, but the idea of massive self-sacrifice to do the right thing is largely why Spider-Man is such an immensely appealing character. Peter Parker’s life has often sucked really hard, yet he never stops being Spider-Man for long. Often you see people criticize Tobey’s portrayal of the character, or Dunsts’s portrayal of MJ, or whatever, and that I can’t really defend. But in terms of nailing what Spider-Man is really about it’s perfect.
Peter’s arc, from reaching is lowest point, to giving up being Spider-Man, to realizing that he can’t not be a hero is executed perfectly. The downward spiral is effective without ever being too depressing thanks to a large dose of humor. After he finally makes the fateful decision, the crescendo back to hero-dom feels natural and organic. From ignoring some poor dude getting mugged in an alley, to running into a burning building while power-less to save a young girl, to finally embracing Spider-Man again to save MJ and consecutively a moving train full of innocent people is done so, so well. I specifically need to mention to train scene because it’s so damn good. While filled with blatant CGI that would be lampooned today, the few fight scenes between Ock and Spidey are incredibly engaging. It’s clear that the choreographers or animators or whoever was involved knew they could be creative in the movements and actions of such flexible and agile characters, and it is a treat to watch. The train scene certainly fits that criteria, but what makes it so good is its placement in the film. It is so incredibly fitting that such a short time after returning to being a hero, Spider-Man comes so incredibly close to sacrificing himself to saving innocents. And then the following scene where the train passengers unite to help him is surprisingly moving when it could just end up being really cheesy (like the part in the first film).
In discussing the theme of being a hero, it’s impossible not to discuss Doc Ock. In a world where comic book movies are plagued by such shit villains that a fairly generic get-revenge-on-the-heroes villain like Zemo are considered “good” I think it’s easy to forget how far things have fallen. Doc Ock (portrayed fantastically by Alfred Molina) isn’t just a crazy dude that wants to destroy New York because he’s crazy, he fits succinctly in with the theme of the movie. He’s the fallen hero, the guy that tried to help the world but failed and lost everything. He’s Peter’s hero, and he gives Peter important advice he needs to succeed in life. And in the end Peter reminds him of he was, the hero he can be, and he sacrifices his life to save the city. What’s important that he isn’t even in the movie all that much. Outside of the intro and a few battle scenes, he is mostly in the background to the rest of the story. Yet somehow he’s better than most anything that’s come out since say The Dark Knight. Get your shit together CBM writers. (Also, according to Wikipedia, Raimi is basically the sole reason this didn’t become a multi-villain shitfest like other Sony Spider-Man’s, thanks Raimi).
I think another important part of the movie is the ending. Now, I’m not trying to compare the two movies in any way quality-wise because I’ll get laughed at (and I love both movies), but seriously I have to imagine that the creators were thinking of The Graduate during this final part. MJ ditches her potential new Husbando for Peter, running to his apartment in a huge wedding dress with a massive smile on her face. She shows up, they say “I love you” to each other, and Peter has to go rescue some people. Everything seems swell and great and awesome, with an honestly still impressive scene of him swinging about New York. Yet the final shot of MJ looking out a window doesn’t really look happy. Like The Graduate, it’s very much a “did I fuck up?” kind of look, and gives the film a bittersweet ending that things they have turned out well this time, but will the good times continue? (Well, Spider-Man 3 happened, so no).
If I have one issue with this move, it has to be James Franco/Harry Osborn. His motivations and actions are a little off, and Franco’s acting isn’t really that great. It also stings knowing the set-up in this film does not pay off at all in the sequel. But it isn’t that big of a deal.
So yeah, I love this movie. Spider-Man 2 is everything I want in my superhero films. I’m truly getting tired of superhero films, despite my enjoyment of comics. The DCEU is struggling, the MCU is starting to bore me, and Fox has no idea what the fuck they’re doing (though I admittedly liked Apocalypse more than most). Watching this early-era movie was an enormous breath of fresh air. It’s much more a story about Parker than it is about Spider-Man, and it feels impressively restrained in the era of big CGI explosions. The scene where Peter is telling Aunt May about Uncle Ben’s death is handily the most moved I have ever felt watching a superhero movie, and the speech Aunt May gives Peter about being a hero is legitimately powerful. It’s the kind of stuff I find lacking in all these modern comic book movie adaptations. Thanks to Raimi’s camera-work, it sometimes feels like the closest any of these movies have gotten to really capturing the feeling of reading a comic book. The GOAT-tier opening credits are probably the closest any of these movies have come to acknowledging where the source material comes from.
I’m admittedly not that excited for Homecoming and I have a hard time believing that it will reach the highs this movie does, even if Tom Holland is the most perfect Peter Parker/Spider-Man of all time. But I’ll hold out hope that it’s good, that maybe after the one million sequels they make we again get to see Spider-Man prove what being a hero is really about and the sacrifices that need to be made.
So yeah, this was really long and you might think I’m crazy for typing all this. But I really, really, really loved this movie and needed an outlet to express it. So there. Honestly there's more I could talk about, and also some stuff I'm omitting!
tl;dr: Spider-Man 2 is the GOAT comic book movie.
First of all, here’s the official thread theme (Marvel pls get your shit together and get a theme this memorable for your movies, even Fox has something for X-Men!)
Also here's the movie's official poster. Which I really love even though it probably isn't that great.
After years and years of reading “best superhero movie” threads containing posts (sometimes rather long) about how “Spider-Man 2 is the GOAT superhero movie” I decided I’d finally give the first two movies a rewatch for the first time since I was around 10 years old, seeing the movie in theaters and, as far as I can recall, enjoying it a lot. But 12 years ago is a long time, and at most I could only recall a few small parts. So last night I decided to finally give Spider-Man 1 and 2 both a rewatch and make a final decision on where these movies stand in the ever increasingly long list of movies about people in silly costumes fighting other people in silly costumes. I consider myself a pretty big fan.
I’ll start with Spider-Man 1. It’s a pretty good movie. Nothing mind-blowing nowadays, but still a lot of fun. The biggest problem the movie has though is that it is most definitely dated by today’s standards. And I’m not just referring to the bad CGI (though not as terrible as I was expecting, admittedly) but the story itself. Now I know they were trying to make Peter come off as a super awkward nerd that’s hopelessly in love, but by modern standards he just comes off as a creep. There’s also some wonky writing, like a part where Norman is all like “MJ sucks” and Harry is all like “MJ doesn’t suck!” and then MJ asks Harry why he didn’t defend her, to which Harry then says that he can’t turn his back on his dad (????). Also I have no fucking clue what MJ sees in Peter. I guess it’s hinted that she knows, deep down, that he’s really Spider-Man. But it’s whatever. Also Willem Dafoe is amazing. So yeah, good movie, but nothing too ground-breaking.
But Spider-Man 2 though, damn.
Coming off Spidey 1, I wasn’t expecting much, even with the high praise this movie gets. But having finally watched for the first time in over a decade, I can safely say that it stands as one of my favorite movies of all time and handily my favorite superhero movie ever (rewatch of Nolan’s Batman pending). Seriously, I fucking love this movie, and I’m going to desperately try to turn that love into words that actually make sense to read.
The real power in this movie is in its theme of what it means to be a hero. It’s about the sacrifices you must make and the hardships you need to go through in order to do the right thing. It’s a theme that’s universal and easy to relate to. In comparison to the modern world of comic book movies, I’d say that the first half of Captain America: The First Avenger is an apt comparison. It’s about wanting to do what’s right for the right reasons, even when doing so is a struggle (it should be mentioned that that chunk of a movie is often mentioned as the best work the MCU has ever done). I’m going to pretend to be a Spider-Man expert, but the idea of massive self-sacrifice to do the right thing is largely why Spider-Man is such an immensely appealing character. Peter Parker’s life has often sucked really hard, yet he never stops being Spider-Man for long. Often you see people criticize Tobey’s portrayal of the character, or Dunsts’s portrayal of MJ, or whatever, and that I can’t really defend. But in terms of nailing what Spider-Man is really about it’s perfect.
Peter’s arc, from reaching is lowest point, to giving up being Spider-Man, to realizing that he can’t not be a hero is executed perfectly. The downward spiral is effective without ever being too depressing thanks to a large dose of humor. After he finally makes the fateful decision, the crescendo back to hero-dom feels natural and organic. From ignoring some poor dude getting mugged in an alley, to running into a burning building while power-less to save a young girl, to finally embracing Spider-Man again to save MJ and consecutively a moving train full of innocent people is done so, so well. I specifically need to mention to train scene because it’s so damn good. While filled with blatant CGI that would be lampooned today, the few fight scenes between Ock and Spidey are incredibly engaging. It’s clear that the choreographers or animators or whoever was involved knew they could be creative in the movements and actions of such flexible and agile characters, and it is a treat to watch. The train scene certainly fits that criteria, but what makes it so good is its placement in the film. It is so incredibly fitting that such a short time after returning to being a hero, Spider-Man comes so incredibly close to sacrificing himself to saving innocents. And then the following scene where the train passengers unite to help him is surprisingly moving when it could just end up being really cheesy (like the part in the first film).
In discussing the theme of being a hero, it’s impossible not to discuss Doc Ock. In a world where comic book movies are plagued by such shit villains that a fairly generic get-revenge-on-the-heroes villain like Zemo are considered “good” I think it’s easy to forget how far things have fallen. Doc Ock (portrayed fantastically by Alfred Molina) isn’t just a crazy dude that wants to destroy New York because he’s crazy, he fits succinctly in with the theme of the movie. He’s the fallen hero, the guy that tried to help the world but failed and lost everything. He’s Peter’s hero, and he gives Peter important advice he needs to succeed in life. And in the end Peter reminds him of he was, the hero he can be, and he sacrifices his life to save the city. What’s important that he isn’t even in the movie all that much. Outside of the intro and a few battle scenes, he is mostly in the background to the rest of the story. Yet somehow he’s better than most anything that’s come out since say The Dark Knight. Get your shit together CBM writers. (Also, according to Wikipedia, Raimi is basically the sole reason this didn’t become a multi-villain shitfest like other Sony Spider-Man’s, thanks Raimi).
I think another important part of the movie is the ending. Now, I’m not trying to compare the two movies in any way quality-wise because I’ll get laughed at (and I love both movies), but seriously I have to imagine that the creators were thinking of The Graduate during this final part. MJ ditches her potential new Husbando for Peter, running to his apartment in a huge wedding dress with a massive smile on her face. She shows up, they say “I love you” to each other, and Peter has to go rescue some people. Everything seems swell and great and awesome, with an honestly still impressive scene of him swinging about New York. Yet the final shot of MJ looking out a window doesn’t really look happy. Like The Graduate, it’s very much a “did I fuck up?” kind of look, and gives the film a bittersweet ending that things they have turned out well this time, but will the good times continue? (Well, Spider-Man 3 happened, so no).
If I have one issue with this move, it has to be James Franco/Harry Osborn. His motivations and actions are a little off, and Franco’s acting isn’t really that great. It also stings knowing the set-up in this film does not pay off at all in the sequel. But it isn’t that big of a deal.
So yeah, I love this movie. Spider-Man 2 is everything I want in my superhero films. I’m truly getting tired of superhero films, despite my enjoyment of comics. The DCEU is struggling, the MCU is starting to bore me, and Fox has no idea what the fuck they’re doing (though I admittedly liked Apocalypse more than most). Watching this early-era movie was an enormous breath of fresh air. It’s much more a story about Parker than it is about Spider-Man, and it feels impressively restrained in the era of big CGI explosions. The scene where Peter is telling Aunt May about Uncle Ben’s death is handily the most moved I have ever felt watching a superhero movie, and the speech Aunt May gives Peter about being a hero is legitimately powerful. It’s the kind of stuff I find lacking in all these modern comic book movie adaptations. Thanks to Raimi’s camera-work, it sometimes feels like the closest any of these movies have gotten to really capturing the feeling of reading a comic book. The GOAT-tier opening credits are probably the closest any of these movies have come to acknowledging where the source material comes from.
I’m admittedly not that excited for Homecoming and I have a hard time believing that it will reach the highs this movie does, even if Tom Holland is the most perfect Peter Parker/Spider-Man of all time. But I’ll hold out hope that it’s good, that maybe after the one million sequels they make we again get to see Spider-Man prove what being a hero is really about and the sacrifices that need to be made.
So yeah, this was really long and you might think I’m crazy for typing all this. But I really, really, really loved this movie and needed an outlet to express it. So there. Honestly there's more I could talk about, and also some stuff I'm omitting!
tl;dr: Spider-Man 2 is the GOAT comic book movie.
