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[PLASTICA-MAN]

The tape has Operation Intrude on it which takes place in 95. Not sure why you'd think that scene isn't set in 95.

I knew someone would come up with this and I explained that in many previous posts before. Why do you think the Operation intrude only takes place so briefly in that short time? The whole operation may be how to build Outer Heaven and then test Solid Snake's skills since he is the true heir of Big Boss. Big Boss is not dumb and he is following Zero wicked strategia of having many agents working for him seperately since he trusts no one like Zero (when he sent messages to Ocelot, Milelr Skullface independently since no one has the same personality and same visions that is why he was careful with the flow of information he gave to each one). Same goes with Big Boss, he gave the steps fro fake Big Boss for the Outer Heaven while he was building Zanzibar Land (makign the base won't be easy) but he didn't trust him that is why Operation intrude 312 was sent to Grey Fox only t spy on him since he suspected that the fake one will usurp his name and the power he bestowed (that he wasn't meant for) him for his own agenda. That is why he was forced to kill him through Slid Snake.

Because Venom doesn't look as old as he should during the original Metal Gear. At that point Big Boss had gray hair. If Venom appeared in front of Solid Snake looking like he does in the ending, Solid would've known something was up.

This. The fake Big Boss should look as old as the old artwork of him with the TPP scar on his left side like here:

 

[Ishida]

Assuming the real Big Boss was the one who sent Solid Snake to kill the phantom for whatever reason, then why does Big Boss send false information to Snake over the radio, leading him to gas chambers, ambushes and traps?

Or the one in the radio was the phantom?

This game doesn't answer ANY question, but it introduces more questions that now may never be resolved.... Fuck this.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Assuming the real Big Boss was the one who sent Solid Snake to kill the phantom for whatever reason, then why does Big Boss send false information to Snake over the radio, leading him to gas chambers, ambushes and traps?

Or the one in the radio was the phantom?

This game doesn't answer ANY question, but it introduces more questions that now may never be resolved.... Fuck this.

Yes indeed. And like I said it may be the real Big Boss testing Solid Snake 'skills, because he is his true heir, having his same genes, instead of the fake demented double. So if he succeeds in all the tests and surpass all the obstacles, he may become his true successor, the successor of the super soldier. Or maybe the fake was leading him through all the obstacles to kill him. Who knows. Metal Gear 1 and Metal Gear 2 remakes are needed now more than before.

 

[BlueWord]

If Kingdom of the Flies is any indication, I'd say that the plot of this game has been severely compromised. The endings are really unsatisfying – KotF excluded. Just reeks of something big going on behind the scenes, particularly because Kojima's "taboo" subjects seem to be only lightly touched upon.

 

[Venom Fox]

PLASTICA MAN

We assume Operation intrude is a short amount of time due to the fact that established canon stated that OIN312 took place a day before OIN313. There was only 2 operations in the story, no more no less. Both the Outer Heaven Insignia is present in the scene as well as the fact that the scene TELLS us it Outer Heaven.

Besides you can't really argue that Venom would look older, when in MGS4 Big Boss looked exactly as he did in the artwork which portrayed him in 1995.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

If Kingdom of the Flies is any indication, I'd say that the plot of this game has been severely compromised. The endings are really unsatisfying – KotF excluded. Just reeks of something big going on behind the scenes, particularly because Kojima's "taboo" subjects seem to be only lightly touched upon.

I am almost sure Kojima has more stuff planned for the matter. He is really wicked and never give up.

 

[Venom Fox]

If Kingdom of the Flies is any indication, I'd say that the plot of this game has been severely compromised. The endings are really unsatisfying – KotF excluded. Just reeks of something big going on behind the scenes, particularly because Kojima's "taboo" subjects seem to be only lightly touched upon.

What taboo subjects? They were nowhere to be seen. At all. Since when is manipulation a taboo? We should wait and see about this BloodHound thing, there's WAY to many coincidences that have happened with that site.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Huey is just surprised by the shrapnel in his head, or that's how I took it.

He looks relatively suspicious.


On Ishmael from the main thread.

For the sake of people just coming into the game:

Your MGO avatar, which isn't live until October, and yea, he was killed by the gunship that took out your ambulance.

Yep he sure was...

 

[EloquentM]

Also, why is the fake growing a horn out of his head?

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

PLASTICA MAN

We assume Operation intrude is a short amount of time due to the fact that established canon stated that OIN312 took place a day before OIN313. There was only 2 operations in the story, no more no less. Both the Outer Heaven Insignia is present in the scene as well as the fact that the scene TELLS us it Outer Heaven.

Besides you can't really argue that Venom would look older, when in MGS4 Big Boss looked exactly as he did in the artwork which portrayed him in 1995.

Read closeley what I said about rhe insigna changing in the metaphorical ending going from Diamond Dog in the real world to the Outer Heaven inigna in the vision world (Fake Big Boss calls MB Outer Heaven since it was always the vision of Big Boss, but the real one wasn't there until the events of Metal Gear 1 and I explained why in my previous posts in terms of geographical positions and terrain and other tech stuff etc, Kojina is sick about such details).

Well, like I said too, The operation 313 may be a long process that he informed the fake double about and about Solid Sanke's coming to it. Though the real one may have been forced to create an emergency operation that precedes the end of Operation 313 because he suspected the fake one was turning it against the real one and using it in his favor, that is why he sent Grey Fox to be like a scout for the Operation and the whole area. Sadly that operation was a failure, and the oepration Intride 313 ultimate goal was changed to eliminate the fake one. You know? Few days ago, the fake Big Boss story wasn't even on the table to be discussed, so why can't we assume the most logical logical explanation of what happened later based on the news revealed fake Bifg Boss story?

Also, why is the fake growing a horn out of his head?

The horn is a real meatllic splinter that he got on his forehead and that the doctor couldn't remove otherwsie it would have caused a deadly hemorrhage. Then the horn metaphorically growing in the final scene is the vision he got of his future self , then he breaks the glass, the Outer Heaven insigna appears metaphorically and his future eveil version is behind that mirror and walks in that dark path.

 

[Ishida]

Besides you can't really argue that Venom would look older, when in MGS4 Big Boss looked exactly as he did in the artwork which portrayed him in 1995.

That was because most of what you see of Big Boss was actually Solidus, maybe including the hair since Big Boss was burned to a crisp.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I think MG1 and 2 are not part of the MGS universe. What happened before MGS1 can only be known based on what was said in the MGS games.

So the idea that Mother Base is Outer Heaven could work. Does the timeline negate this possibility? Like someone said on the previous page, it would make MGS2 even more of a parallel to this universe's MG. You have Big Shell looking just like MB, a fake BB like Solidus, and to some extent maybe even a Gray Fox-BB/Jack-Solidus relationship parallel, etc.

Wouldn't surprise me if Kojima was planning to remake MG1 through MGSV to some extent, maybe in a sequel.

Still think things were set up to show us Solidus recruiting child soldiers and all that, including Eli.

Btw everyone is still thinking the orange bars that appear when we see machines, the video-like glitches when people like Paz or Quiet suffer, etc, is just some meaningless visual effect? I'm thinking the online game will hint at more of this, maybe to explain how people can invade your base repeatedly, etc. I think there is more to it.

Edit: Bloodhound? Bloodhound Gang?? Solidus and his child soldiers in Africa?? Considering the links to David Bowie, maybe there's a link to the Bloodhound Gang. Bloodhound/Diamond Dogs, hmmmm.

 

[Venom Fox]

This is a detailed and objective analysis of the end and has nothing to do with just opinion. The end where whe he is looking into the mirror doesn't happen 11 years after the game. Otherwise Kojima would have used CDs and not tapes and a PS1 and not an MSX. The real Outer Heaven is not situated in Seychelles' waters but instead on firm ground with jungles around it and 100 underground floors.

He ist still in mother base with Diamond Dog logo on his shoulder and on the door behind him. When he starts seeing his demon reflection is when the metaphorical ending ending stars, the real demon he sees metaphorically is what he is becoming that is why he punched the mirror to break it. Then the illusion of his future evil self (not the real Big Boss because what he sees is no longer his reflection on the mirror but his evil future version, now the metallic left arm of him touches the right intact arm of his future version in the dark way, same with the horn) is seen and then the the reflection of the metaphorical future Outer Heaven is seen on the same and replaced the same isnigna of Diamond Dog.
And then his future evil demon self starts to walk in the dark Path since that is what he becomes at the events of Outer Heaven: The smirking evil leader since he got the name of Big Boss who will become old in appearance later in Outer Heaven Events.

Sorry if it is long, but it was needed to put this once and for all so no one gets confused anymore.

I'm sorry and I'm not being rude or angry but you can't exactly present this as fact to people when
1) You aren't Kojima.
2) It very much is about opinions and views as we all interpret that scene differently.
3) There's evidence to suggest it is set in 1995 and evidence to suggest it isn't. This to me makes it seem like it's meant to be openly interpreted until we get clarification by Kojima.

We assume Operation intrude is a short amount of time due to the fact that established canon stated that OIN312 took place a day before OIN313. There was only 2 operations in the story, no more no less. Both the Outer Heaven Insignia is present in the scene as well as the fact that the scene TELLS us it Outer Heaven.

Besides you can't really argue that Venom would look older, when in MGS4 Big Boss looked exactly as he did in the artwork which portrayed him in 1995.

 

[Ishida]

I'm sorry and I'm not being rude or angry but you can't exactly present this as fact to people when
1) You aren't Kojima.
2) It very much is about opinions and views as we all interpret that scene differently.
3) There's evidence to suggest it is set in 1995 and evidence to suggest it isn't. This to me makes it seem like it's meant to be openly interpreted until we get clarification by Kojima.

We assume Operation intrude is a short amount of time due to the fact that established canon stated that OIN312 took place a day before OIN313. There was only 2 operations in the story, no more no less. Both the Outer Heaven Insignia is present in the scene as well as the fact that the scene TELLS us it Outer Heaven.

Besides you can't really argue that Venom would look older, when in MGS4 Big Boss looked exactly as he did in the artwork which portrayed him in 1995.

Why did you skip my post?

 

[RavenEffect]

I think from now on I'm going to treat V non-cannon. Its story distorts so much of the entire series that it's not even worth pondering on how to explain MG 1 and 2 now. Even the Eli/Mantis ending is lame. Mind you I always thought MG 1 and 2 both had very underrated stories as they originally were. Treating V cannon just drags MG 1and 2 into the post MGS 3 nonsense mess. It's all just too dissapointing.

Personally I'm glad we aren't getting MG 1 and 2 remakes as well as a game set in WW2 with The Boss that Kojima spoke about in the past.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Bloodhound description from wikipedia:

The bloodhound is a large scent hound originally bred for hunting deer and wild boar, but also used from the Middle Ages onwards for tracking human beings, and now most often bred specifically for that purpose. Thought to be descended from hounds once kept at the Abbey of St Hubert in Belgium, it is known to French speakers as the Chien de Saint-Hubert.

This dog is famed for its ability to discern human odors even days later, over great distances, even across water. Its extraordinarily keen sense of smell is combined with a strong and tenacious tracking instinct, producing the ideal scent hound, and it is used by police and law enforcement all over the world to track escaped prisoners, missing people, lost children and lost pets.

 

[BlueWord]

What taboo subjects? They were nowhere to be seen. At all. Since when is manipulation a taboo? We should wait and see about this BloodHound thing, there's WAY to many coincidences that have happened with that site.

Haha, exactly! Lots of hints at some of these larger themes, but it doesn't culminate into anything substantial.

I'm hopeful for more, but not overly so. Kojima doesn't have his hands on the steering wheel – and hasn't for a while – it seems.

 

[LordCanti]

Because Venom doesn't look as old as he should during the original Metal Gear. At that point Big Boss had gray hair. If Venom appeared in front of Solid Snake looking like he does in the ending, Solid would've known something was up.

I knew someone would come up with this and I explained that in many previous posts before. Why do you think the Operation intrude only takes place so briefly in that short time? The whole operation may be how to build Outer Heaven and then test Solid Snake's skills since he is the true heir of Big Boss. Big Boss is not dumb and he is following Zero wicked strategia of having many agents working for him seperately since he trusts no one like Zero (when he sent messages to Ocelot, Milelr Skullface independently since no one has the same personality and same visions that is why he was careful with the flow of information he gave to each one). Same goes with Big Boss, he gave the steps fro fake Big Boss for the Outer Heaven while he was building Zanzibar Land (makign the base won't be easy) but he didn't trust him that is why Operation intrude 312 was sent to Grey Fox only t spy on him since he suspected that the fake one will usurp his name and the power he bestowed (that he wasn't meant for) him for his own agenda. That is why he was forced to kill him through Slid Snake.

Kojima was never going to perfectly close every plot hole that exists in the series. I think "old artwork of BB doesn't look like the guy in the cutscene" is one of those that we're just going to have to let go of.

If that tape isn't delivered in 95 it sure gives Venom a reason to take drastic actions against Big Boss. That tape seems like the kind of thing you send along when you know you're already about to win.

 

[Ishida]

Kojima was never going to perfectly close every plot hole that exists in the series. I think "old artwork of BB doesn't look like the guy in the cutscene" is one of those that we're just going to have to let go of.

If that tape isn't delivered in 95 it sure gives Venom a reason to take drastic actions against Big Boss. That tape seems like the kind of thing you send along when you know you're already about to win.

I HIGHLY doubt they are retconning Big Boss' old appearance. Too many artworks and even Ocelot's mention of Solidus' appearance in MGS2. I'm pretty certain that old Big Boss is still old Big Boss in the current canon.

 

[Venom Fox]

Read closeley what I said about rhe insigna changing in the metaphorical ending going from Diamond Dog in the real world to the Outer Heaven inigna in the vision world (Fake Big Boss calls MB Outer Heaven since it was always the vision of Big Boss, but the real one wasn't there until the events of Metal Gear 1 and I explained why in my previous posts in terms of geographical positions and terrain and other tech stuff etc, Kojina is sick about such details).

Well, like I said too, The operation 313 may be a long process that he informed the fake double about and about Solid Sanke's coming to it. Though the real one may have been forced to create an emergency operation that precedes the end of Operation 313 because he suspected the fake one was turning it against the real one and using it in his favor, that is why he sent Grey Fox to be like a scout for the Operation and the whole area. Sadly that operation was a failure, and the oepration Intride 313 ultimate goal was changed to eliminate the fake one. You know? Few days ago, the fake Big Boss story wasn't even on the table to be discussed, so why can't we assume the most logical logical explanation of what happened later based on the news revealed fake Bifg Boss story?

You presented this as fact to everyone although you keep saying stuff like "have may have". Outer Heaven is located in South Africa, that much is fact until we are told it's been retconned.
You also said OIN313 may have been planned in advance and sent Gray Fox, because that was a failure he sent Solid Snake.
Why would Big Boss send Venom the OI tape 11 years in advance? "Hey dude, I'm gonna have you killed in 11 years when you have an immense fortress, an elite unit and a series of traps. I could kill you where you stand, right there on that Oil rig but I've decided I'm waiting 11 years ok?"
It doesn't make sense because like I said there was only 2 operations, OIN312 and OIN313 both of those were missions to kill Venom. You can't just throw in stuff like "there could have been more operations" or "the operation could have spanned 11 years including the creation of OH" when again, there was only ever 2 operations.

That was because most of what you see of Big Boss was actually Solidus, maybe including the hair since Big Boss was burned to a crisp.

Solidus was burned to a crisp too, so where did the hair, skin eyes etc come from? Nanomachines? He said he was kept in a medical induced coma by Zero's AI and Solidus's DNA was used to unlock his chamber.
He still looked as he did in MG1/2.

 

[Ishida]

Solidus was burned to a crisp too, so where did the hair, skin eyes etc come from? Nanomachines? He said he was kept in a medical induced coma by Zero's AI and Solidus's DNA was used to unlock his chamber.
He still looked as he did in MG1/2.

What...? Solidus was SKINNED before he got burned at the Volta.

The reason Solidus looks like skeleton and muscles is because his skin was used to patch up Big Boss' burned body.

 

[Venom Fox]

Haha, exactly! Lots of hints at some of these larger themes, but it doesn't culminate into anything substantial.

I'm hopeful for more, but not overly so. Kojima doesn't have his hands on the steering wheel – and hasn't for a while – it seems.

Exactly, this simply why I said I can compare Kojima to Peter Molyneux (in certain ways). Kojima said that he may have to leave the industry if it goes wrong because he's tackling these taboos, from what I've played the only thing even anywhere near a taboo is the child soldiers but even then it's not exactly a taboo subject when all he is doing is portraying something that did actually happen back then lol.

Yeah I really trusted Kojima for years but his blatant bullshitting with this game is more than enough to make me cautious for what he makes next for certain. He clearly can't be trusted to follow up on his promises in a multitude of ways.

 

[Furyous]

Was the rumor about invading bases in a Metal Gear true? That's what I want to know.

 

[Venom Fox]

What...? Solidus was SKINNED before he got burned at the Volta.

The reason Solidus looks like skeleton and muscles is because his skin was used to patch up Big Boss' burned body.

Ah yeah I forgot that, even so Solidus had rapid ageing so Big Boss would look older.
Also, plastic surgery is a common way to keep the face from ageing normally. Venom underwent Plastic surgery to have BB's face so naturally he wouldn't age as quick as a person who hasn't undergone plastic surgery.

 

[LordCanti]

I HIGHLY doubt they are retconning Big Boss' old appearance. Too many artworks and even Ocelot's mention of Solidus' appearance in MGS2. I'm pretty certain that old Big Boss is still old Big Boss in the current canon.

The idea that it's not 1995 there just requires too many leaps for me. First of all it requires Operation Intrude Nxx (other numbers/letters obscured by tape deck) to have been a multi-year long thing when it's established that it's a short mission taking place in 1995. There are no tapes where anyone else mentions it and no evidence to support it at all. The simplest conclusion to come to is that he's alluding to Intrude 312. That'd probably mean the tape was on Gray Fox when he was captured since he's the only agent other than SS that BB sent (and SS killed Venom).

His appearance changing is probably because it's a completely different guy than it was when that art was made. An old Venom isn't going to look exactly like an old BB because he doesn't have the same DNA anyway. Venom also may have started younger than Big Boss since we're never given his age, so he'd go grey and such later.

 

[Formless]

Goddamn MGS is a mess.

 

[Ishida]

Goddamn MGS is a mess.

It's always been a mess ever since the series entered the PlayStation. But in my opinion, MGSV is the drop that spilled the cup.

 

[WonderCheese]

So what's with this Kojima "it's MGS 'V', not '5'" horse dung?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Has anyone figured out the whole MSX boot code tapes thing yet with GZ and TPP's data tapes? That's the one mystery that seems like it could actually go somewhere right now.

So what's with this Kojima "it's MGS 'V', not '5'" horse dung?

Pretty sure he just means he chose V because it's a Roman numeral and the first letter of Venom, not that this isn't the fifth main MGS.

 

[Cob32]

Did anyone get that scene from the trailers were snake stabs himself when he's fighting his men on motherbase?

 

[Foxtastical]

Has anyone figured out the whole MSX boot code tapes thing yet with GZ and TPP's data tapes? That's the one mystery that seems like it could actually go somewhere right now.



Pretty sure he just means he chose V because it's a Roman numeral and the first letter of Venom, not that this isn't the fifth main MGS.

Yeah, wondering the same about the MSX tapes.

 

[Sub_Level]

Did anyone get that scene from the trailers were snake stabs himself when he's fighting his men on motherbase?

To do that I would imagine you have to have your soldiers start fighting each other.

 

[WonderCheese]

Pretty sure he just means he chose V because it's a Roman numeral and the first letter of Venom, not that this isn't the fifth main MGS.

Ahh, well, I guess that makes sense. But making sense doesn't seem to matter much, so it just seems like there could be more behind him going out of his way to make the distinction. Who knows. Who cares, now that I think about it.

 

[Carn82]

Here is the complete sequence, 1080p should be here soon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B4JIHh5Jqk

WHY IS THIS NOT IN THE GAME?! /angry.

 

[GG-Duo]

I watched the Quiet story spoilers yesterday, and I feel like she’s actually a pretty cool character. Her relationship with Venom Snake is quite well-executed.

It’s really too bad that Kojima had to give her that costume and used her for fan service. It’s such a distraction. He could’ve concocted some sort of photosynthesis suit mumbo jumbo and it would’ve fixed it.

 

[MrS]

How bad is the second pandemic at MB? Is it better to get all the MB struts built and get them all to level 50 before progressing to that mission?

 

[googoomuck22]

Hey, would someone mind telling me how I progress the main story in Chapter 2? Basically Eli has just escaped Mother Base with the Metal Gear and the only missions I have in my list are reruns of missions I've previously completed. Do I have to complete those to get more story missions? Thanks

 

[squadr0n]

Where are the unfinished cutscenes found and how many are there? Or is it just that Eli scene? Someone said they came with the Collectors Edition but I didn't think it came with a bonus dvd.

Also how well put together is the Metal Gear Solid Legecy video that comes with the Steam version?


I also haven't been able to connect to the servers in game to load my GZ data, is anyone else having this problem? Actually its fixed today. Must have been on their end.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

Hey, would someone mind telling me how I progress the main story in Chapter 2? Basically Eli has just escaped Mother Base with the Metal Gear and the only missions I have in my list are reruns of missions I've previously completed. Do I have to complete those to get more story missions? Thanks

the Eli stuff is cut content, but there is a bit more story of you grind side ops and do the harder missions

 

[googoomuck22]

the Eli stuff is cut content, but there is a bit more story of you grind side ops and do the harder missions

ah ok thanks anyways, weird though, in the preview of Chapter 2 they make it seem like there's a load more story stuff

 

[Cob32]

Hey, would someone mind telling me how I progress the main story in Chapter 2? Basically Eli has just escaped Mother Base with the Metal Gear and the only missions I have in my list are reruns of missions I've previously completed. Do I have to complete those to get more story missions? Thanks

Try completing the extract wandering motherbase soldiers missions. They always advanced the story for me.

 

[googoomuck22]

Try completing the extract wandering motherbase soldiers missions. They always advanced the story for me.

ok cool I'll give that a shot, not done many of those actually. Thanks for the responses, game is great and really enjoying the story which is why I'm after more

 

[snake_eater_raiden]

I saw that cut out part and it seems there is story DLC coming in surely.

 

[snake_eater_raiden]

Isn't Kojima working until December at Konami? I mean he won't be sitting idle for 4 months.

There has got to be something happening and the way Liquid says in the end 'It's not over yet!". A Story DLC for MGS5? Honestly I would take it. Do you guys it could happen?

 

[LordCanti]

I saw that cut out part and it seems there is story DLC coming in surely.

Isn't Kojima working until December at Konami? I mean he won't be sitting idle for 4 months.

There has got to be something happening and the way Liquid says in the end 'It's not over yet!". A Story DLC for MGS5? Honestly I would take it. Do you guys it could happen?

There'd be no reason to release a video detailing what could have been if that thing actually had a chance of ever coming out.

I really doubt we'll see any DLC that isn't microtransaction stuff and I'd be shocked to see additional story content.

 

[News Bot]

I think the base we build in the game is Outer Heaven, Big Boss even says welcome to Outer Heaven to Eli when he first gets off the chopper. Then there's the whole scene at the start and the end? Venom still has his DD logo but he's clearly in Outer Heaven as the insignia is shown.

Everywhere gets called Outer Heaven in this series. Mother Base 1 was Outer Heaven. Shadow Moses was Outer Heaven. Manhattan was Outer Heaven. Outer Haven was Outer Heaven.

 

[Ushojax]

The story of this game is just so dumb, I really don't know what Kojima was thinking with everything post-MGS3. As far as I'm concerned, there are the first 3 MGS games and that's it. The other sequels just undermine the themes and characters too much. There's only so many doppelgängers I can handle.

Did we really need another Big Boss fakeout to add another layer of stupid to the series? It's descended into self-parody with all the extreme cliches of Japanese writing.

 

[Venom Fox]

Has anyone figured out the whole MSX boot code tapes thing yet with GZ and TPP's data tapes? That's the one mystery that seems like it could actually go somewhere right now.



Pretty sure he just means he chose V because it's a Roman numeral and the first letter of Venom, not that this isn't the fifth main MGS.

Not as of yet, everyone all over the Internet is looking towards the is "Bloodhound" thing related to MGSV there was even a "Bloodhound" skiff for DD which is a dead giveaway.

 

[rrc1594]

You know I wouldn't mind a game with Liquid as the MC.

 

[Crankshaft]

You know I wouldn't mind a game with Liquid as the MC.

I have been hoping for a Metal Gear Liquid game for years... then Kojima got fired...
Well I can dream of how cool it would have been