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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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D

diaspora

Member
duckroll said:
Was Finn really broken up over the death of the fellow stormtrooper or was he just going "oh shit that could have been ME!!!"?

I always thought it was the latter.
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Slips had constantly fallen behind in training and Finn kept having to rescue them. Phasma straight up told him to let them go if it was going to happen again, and it happened on his
first?
mission on Jakku.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
LumpOfCole said:
If that weapon is made for the purpose of being anti-lightsaber, isn't it odd that the Stormtroopers are regularly equipping those in the first place? Does the First Order really expect to realistically come across enemies with lightsabers?
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According to the title roll, the main motive of the First Order is to kill Luke Skywalker.
 
M

Meowster

Member
LumpOfCole said:
If that weapon is made for the purpose of being anti-lightsaber, isn't it odd that the Stormtroopers are regularly equipping those in the first place? Does the First Order really expect to realistically come across enemies with lightsabers?
Click to expand...
If I remember right, the First Order has been specifically trained in case they ever ran into Skywalker, which seems to be Snoke's end all be all goal.
 
J

JustinBB7

Member
SwolBro said:
311.gif



That's hilarious. That guy was completely out of place, George Lucas kind out of place.
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This guy was fucking awesome though.
 
T

The One Who Knocks

Member
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Why the hell is Ben Solo/Kylo Ren a tantrum-throwing twat? Like, he's just a dick. What's his motivation? Why's he so obsessed with living up to Vader? Is there any redemption for him? Especially after he murdered his father?
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I'm quite tired so I hope you don't mind me referring you to a previous quote (which is admittedly more focused on the Ren/Rey confrontation but draws prominently on Ren's motivations) for the bolded:

I think she only screwed up with the safety on the blaster. After that she took out a bunch of troopers. Not really a big deal to me since troopers get owned by everyone.

The One Who Knocks said:
I think the bolded, that Ren is incredibly powerful and extremely competent is where a lot of the disagreements regarding Rey seem to come from. I actually completely disagree with the bolded. Ren is powerful, sure, but I don't actually think he's remotely as competent as the bolded suggests. The impression I've gotten from the movie is that he's actually not nearly as good as he tries to suggest, and the legendary status which he has to live up to is completely and utterly crippling him as he, in fact, does not have the same natural ability and competence and must work far harder to acquire it than one would expect. He has a higher aptitude than most at the time probably do as a result of this lineage, but not extraordinarily so as Rey does. He's never faced quite a challenge and is untouchable only because he's amongst those who can't use the force, and he's the best Force user amongst a group of people who are weak/mediocre with it given the lack of places there are to be trained in it, the weak belief in the force throughout the galaxy at the time (or so it seems after the near-extinction of force-competent individuals), combined with his lineage resulting in a better-than-average affinity. I think what matters greatly in whether or not you judge Finn and Rey holding off Ren as unbelievable is entirely reliant upon how powerful you think Ren is; if you view him as somebody incredibly powerful already, then it can be unbelievable unless you think the emotional instability, blaster wound, and incomplete training are enough to stop him (which is still a plausible argument) and level him with Rey who has no training at all, but if you view him as somebody with a slightly-above average affinity with the Force, even with all of the training he has received, who is then greatly weakened by the same factors, who is up against Rey who has an extremely strong affinity with the force (demonstrated throughout the movie) who is being further bolstered by her utilisation of the dark side following the death of Han and the injury of Finn, I really don't think it's that unbelievable. I honestly feel the beat down isn't so much a reflection on Rey being competent, as it is a joint display of Ren actually being merely competent, and Rey's natural affinity with the force and her self-control (enhanced by her emotionally heightened state).

I will say I find the idea of Rey having undergone a mind-wipe compelling (doubly so if it's a Knights of the Old Republic-like situation and she is the one who slaughtered Luke's Academy even though I'm pretty sure it won't be so, even if I'm skeptical that it was Ren who did it currently due to it not being explicitly stated), and if she is it also provides a 'justification' to Rey knocking down Ren at the end, even if I find it somewhat unnecessary (but it does allow them to suggest that Ren is actually also extremely powerful, even though he's still emotionally unstable and very insecure).

I had written the following before mostly discarding it (because I don't feel it's refined enough to properly express my feelings yet as I've only seen it once) in relation to Ren and Rey, and their level of expertise, but I'm going to include it below just for anybody somewhat interested in the difference here, which expounds more on why I view it as such:

I really don't see the issue with Rey's aptitude with the force throughout the film, or her managing to hold off Ren and cut him down to size, whether Rey has been force mind-wiped or not.

Ren starts off the movie appearing to be an incredibly capable and competent force user. He gives off an aura of confidence in his initial appearance, and the introduction of Force Stasis in the cinematic universe through him creates a striking impression of power. Similarly, his use of the force in interrogating Poe and breaking him, again, gives off the impression that he's a competent individual with a strong understanding of the force. His ability to sense disturbances in the force re-emphasise his connection to it, and his first outburst makes him seem to be a frightening individual with a huge anger that results in a strong grasp of the Dark Side.

These initial impressions though, are gradually dispelled throughout the movie. Rey uses the force throughout the movie, but does so in a more subtle way than we usually see in the Star Wars movies. She uses the force in her knowledge of what to do, and has her abilities greatly enhanced beyond normal means. She has great reflexes and develops an 'intuition' as to what to do, an intuition and understanding that's gradually revealed to be an ability with the force. She doesn't understand what or know that she's using the force, she doesn't even (apparently) believe in the force or the stories of what have happened in the decades prior, and has lived a tough life on Jakku where she had to hone her natural survival skills and instincts to survive, making do with what she has in order to survive and having a somewhat challenging path, allowing her to get a grasp of variety of adaptable skills which become further enhanced by her very strong connection with the force. The journey she embarks upon with Finn and BB8 result in her becoming more aware of the force, and the reality of it, and the experience in Maz's allows her to become clearly aware of her strong connection with the force.

It's around this time, that Ren's own incompetence begins to become clear. While he has a connection to the force, he doesn't have the same intuition with it that Rey does, and clearly doesn't have as good of a grasp as we thought he did, as we reflect upon how he doesn't realise that he should have stopped Finn during their initial encounter, and he doesn't learn from the force that he should still capture BB8. Our biggest insight comes from the interrogation with Rey. Without training, Rey is able to resist him. Without training, Rey is able to push back into his mind, and learn of his strong insecurity that he isn't good enough, and isn't nearly as strong as Darth Vader despite his desire that he should be. She manages to goad him into taking off his mask, and he visits Snope desperate, afraid, and completely uncertain what to do. This fear that he's not as strong as Vader can only possibly be enhanced after Rey knocks him completely. After this moment, his actions take a completely different light. He has never, it seems, been challenged by anybody competent in the force before, or with much of a connection. Everybody we had seen him do battle with prior had been somebody without a connection to the force, he'd never been challenged, or faced a challenge.

Rey manages to listen to the force, and allow it to guide her, not with a knowledge of what's happening, but knowing that it feels right, and accepting it to escape, but Ren doesn't, Ren fights off his own feelings at every point, and is completely dominated by them. Whereas the first outburst appeared initially like a great anger that was fueling a grasp of the dark side, the second completely undermines that; he is completely unable to control his emotions, he's being torn apart by his insecurity, every failure crushes him and confirms that he isn't as strong as Vader and that he is actually weaker, he doesn't really know what to do and cannot contain his rage to strengthen his power but just lashes out childishly. We begin to see, from here, how his strength with the force is not as strong as we were lead to believe. While yes he senses Han on the planet, he can't use the force to sense that Han is behind him or nearby as he is is on the walkway, he continues to be tormented by the light side, and resist the pull towards it. He waivers continuously and has no idea what to really do. He doesn't listen to his instincts and isn't guided by the force, he acts how he wants to be, desperately trying to live up to Vader and desperate to be as strong as him, but clearly isn't. Snoke can sense this inner turmoil too, and uses it try and goad him into killing Han. He hopes that it'll settle his hesitation and inner turmoil, and allow him to become adept with the dark side and fuel his power, but it only further emotionally it cripples him in the moment even though he does manage to ascend Vader and murder family, but is then completely taken off-guard by Chewie and can't stop the blaster from hitting him.

He confronts Finn and Rey. He isn't overpowered by either, they're holding him back, and fleeing, more or less until Rey finally accepts the force and follows its guidance in the fight, and swiftly overpowers him. He has been trained in the force, sure, but he is desperate to live up to Vader. His emotional state is all over the place following the death of his father. He is desperately afraid of facing Rey, a character who has only confirmed his inadequacy up to this point. He has a powerful, legendary lineage and is afraid that he won't be able to live up to it, and has a huge amount resting on his shoulders. In his wounded state, he needs to prove not to Snoke, but to himself, that he is able to live up to Darth Vader's power and take out Rey, yet as soon as she accepts the force and takes the lightsaber, he is again confronted with the knowledge that he isn't the most powerful person in the galaxy. There's no doubt he's somebody powerful, if he was the person involved in destroying Luke's Academy he obviously managed to prove his competence to many of those in training [but again, none of them presumably had the same lineage that he had, and the same natural affinity with the force], his relation to Anakin, his position in the Knights of Ren [but it goes back to the same thing, he has a natural affinity with the force, how many of them can say the same], and his training from Snoke), but he clearly is not as powerful (potentially, anyway) as Rey is, doesn't have control over himself (in contrast to Rey who at that point has accepted the force, wishes to be guided by it, and is empowered by the dark side after the death of Han and the injury of one of her only friends, Finn), and really is not as gifted with the force as he wants, and needs, to be, leading to his huge insecurities which further crippled him. He was presumably forced into training, and told what he had to live up to, but just simply is not able for this, and it crushes him and makes him desperate in his quest for more power, power which he feels he can only obtain from a complete acceptance and knowledge of the dark side even if this isn't what he feels tugging him along and guiding him. I actually think it makes Ren one of the most compelling aspects of the new movie, and a rather unique character in the Star Wars cinematic universe/
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In short, his motivating drive is his insecurity over his own power (forcing him to go to the dark side to acquire this power despite not entirely wanting to internally), the pressure he feels based upon his lineage, and the abandonment he has had by his own parents (note that this also is reminiscent of Rey, and is something she'll have to deal with).

Apologies for not writing something entirely new or pointed towards the question, but I hope the above from here (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=189990534&highlight=#post189990534) does enough to provide some degree of insight.

EDIT: Regarding redemption? Well, it depends how they take him really. He has ironically proved himself more than Vader by being able to do what Vader never could in the murder of family, yet whereas Vader was in control of his emotions, Ren's a spiralling wreck who is being torn apart and has his insecurity heightened following his defeat. I doubt they'll go down a path of redemption, if only because it may be too reminiscent of the original trilogy. I can very much see him or Rey becoming a grey Jedi (particularly Rey).
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
So is the "balance in the force" thing a real phenomenon? Like there must always be dark and light? If so maybe that's why Kylo just naturally took after vader, because he's pretty much being pulled by it to balance the universe?
 
D

duckroll

Member
diaspora said:
Slips had constantly fallen behind in training and Finn kept having to rescue them. Phasma straight up told him to let them go if it was going to happen again, and it happened on his
first?
mission on Jakku.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know if this is a made up joke, or actual information from one of those companion books. Lol.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
LumpOfCole said:
If that weapon is made for the purpose of being anti-lightsaber, isn't it odd that the Stormtroopers are regularly equipping those in the first place? Does the First Order really expect to realistically come across enemies with lightsabers?
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I took it as a Riot Control weapon. Something for intimidating peeps in a non (necessarily) lethal way. But that's totally headcanon. Does that fancy illustrated dictionary have anything to say about it?
 
H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Tookay said:
No it isn't.

If you were in theaters in 2002, you saw people whooping and hollering when Yoda kicked ass. Now those same people whine about how that scene is poorly-staged and "has no emotion."

If you think people's opinions on this movie are set in stone right now, you're wrong. Things are going to change and eventually there will be memes and culturally-accepted narratives about it, just like there were with the prequels. Maybe not to the same degree, but there will be some of it. There always is.
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SwolBro said:
The same thing will happen to this movie. People will come to their senses after the marketing brainwashing passes through.
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Tookay said:
Because it's been evidenced time and again with Star Wars.

To be sure, there have always been people who had problems with the prequels, but with every single one of them, we had a bunch of people thinking they were awesome or better than the last one, only to come down from the hype later and revise their opinion.

I like the movie, but it has enough flaws that I can easily see the positive consensus swing the other way once the hype cools down. All it takes is another Plinkett-esque review to permeate through culture and this movie's generally-liked status is gone.
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This is bullshit. And for some (probably terrible) reason it's important to me that the two of you understand that it's bullshit.

Let me be clear- I don't care how you guys feel about the movie. If you think it's bad, poorly-paced, boring, unworthy of the hype, overrated, whatever. That's your right to believe and your prerogative to express.

But this notion of "public opinion will come around, it always does. Just wait." is demonstrably wrong and narrow-minded. It would seem to me that the sentiment comes more from a place of wishing that public opinion would come around to mirror yours rather than just owning a minority opinion for what it is.

I will use both fact and anecdote to explain.

First, let's start with the aggregate of critical reviews amassed for each film in the prequels and the new one:

IRaW9bU.png


Now, and I've argued with people about this before, I'm not citing RottenTomatoes scores as some kind of objective indicator of quality; it's ludicrous to think that a movie with 1% higher on RottenTomatoes is "better" than a movie with 1% less. Especially with regard to older movies, it's nigh-useless as a "quality score."

However, what an RT is a fair representation of is the the average critical consensus of a movie at the time of its release. All four of these movies came out after the website's launch. If your position is going to be that the movies start out at the apex of their standing in public opinion and then are revised downward after that, the critical consensus that they begin from is an incredibly important fact in presenting your argument.

...Notice the enormous gulf in critical estimation that can be seen between the first three movies and the last. In particular, note that:
  • Less than half of Top Critics gave either Episode 1 or 2 a positive review.
  • Big jumps between "All Critic" and "Top Critic" scores for all besides TFA.
  • Top Critic reviews for TFA remain above 90%. This indicates that, stripping out the "fan hype" factor and the "general audience/crowd-pleasing" factor, those looking to grade the movie using the basic language of cinema still generally hold it in high regard.
If we're making the claim that public opinion will simply turn in the same manner one might have witnessed for the prequels, these numbers alone sort of cause that argument to fall on its face. Critics at the time didn't receive those movies anywhere near as well. If we're trending down from there... I mean, with top critics those first two films barely even have anywhere to go.

Okay, here are my anecdotes. I was 12 when The Phantom Menace came out and saw it opening weekend. I saw Attack of the Clones at one of the first midnight showings with my friends and tons of people in costume and shit.
  • I remember some kind of reaction for Qui Gon getting stabbed, and Darth Maul getting cut in half. And at the creidts.
  • DEAD SILENCE for:
    • Anakin pod-racing sequence and victory
    • Almost all the jokes, I'm struggling to remember a line that got a laugh in TPM
    • Anakin blowing up the Droid Control Ship
    • C3PO reveal, which is so bizarre considering how the audience reacted to him in my TFA screening
    • Gungan ground battle action/humor sequences with Jar Jar, lots of slapstick
  • I remember people cheering for Yoda fighting with his lightsaber. I was one of them. Looking back on that moment, I remember thinking how cool it was and how good the special effects were. What has happened to change my assessment of the scene since then?

    I grew up. When I think about that scene now, I understand why I thought it was cool at the time. I remember being like DUDE, HE WAS FLIPPING ALL OVER THE PLACE AND SHIT. But looking back that scene just makes me sad.

    If I can vent for a moment, I believe that scene (the Yoda/Count Dooku confrontation in AotC) to be the absolute worst moment in the Star Wars canon. It is ruinous. All of the cringey romance stuff and boring-ass writing in the political scenes, that stuff is like watching a soap opera in the middle of your Star Wars. This scene, this IS the Star Wars stuff. The force. Jedi vs. Sith... Lightsabers.

    Yoda shouldn't have had a fucking lightsaber. The emperor didn't a lightsaber. Yoda is above having to hit someone with a sword and any encounter between him and a relatively minor Sith antagonist should have ended with Yoda easily kicking the shit out of his Dooku ass (at least metaphorically) with his understanding of the living Force. Only the Emperor should have been able to stand against Yoda and it shouldn't have been a damn lightsaber fight between the two of them either. The whole mythos in the OT builds up to the aged, immensely powerful emperor in the throne room with no. lightsaber. He doesn't need it, and Yoda shouldn't need one anymore either.

    I remember cheering during that scene in the theaters. I was 14. Looking back, or watching it again, that scene is... surreal. It kind of fucks Yoda up a little bit. He's like this little CGI thing with a tiny lightsaber, trying desperately to hit 77-year-old Christopher Lee in the face. It's like a kid playing with a Yoda action figure. It is painful to watch.
  • On the way in to see Revenge of the Sith, I clearly, easily remember thinking to myself, "Jesus christ, I hope this one is good at least.

    That was in 2007, two years before the first Plinkett prequel review came out.
My problem is with this narrative of "just wait, this movie won't be reviewed fondly later on just like the others" is that it willfully ignores huge, enormous gaps in quality that anyone who cares about movies can easily see.

The prequels are all stuffed with uninteresting, characteristicless characters, laughable plot scenarios and some of the most absolutely god-awful romance ever put to fucking celluloid. They do have lots of cool Star Wars-y stuff and tons of awesome CGI, which I guess partially improves them, but can you imagine what those movies would be like if you just removed all the CG action sequences?

It's not the same, you don't have to claim it's the same. The fun of the Plinkett reviews of the prequels came because they were bad movies; it didn't turn them INTO bad movies. It became incredibly fun to pick apart every ridiculous plot inconsistency and awkward decision that contributed to their failure. They are, at least the first two certainly, bad movies.

I like good movies, and I dislike bad movies. I like movies that are so bad they're good. I like movies. And the big difference here is that The Force Awakens is a good movie.

When I look back at the prequels, even the parts I like, they overwhelmingly feel to me like they were made by a child. The newest movie feels like it was made by adults, for children of all ages. I think you either know exactly what I mean, or you don't.
 
R

ryutaro's mama

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
I think the movie absolutely rules it out. If she believes in Kylo so much that she thinks Han can bring him back even now, there's no way she sends Rey off to live with anyone else (and hides it from Han) because she's scared of the dark side claiming another child.
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Kids have been sent away for lesser reasons in SW. <shrugs> Also, I don't think she believes--she hopes but doesn't believe. She hopes Ren isn't so far gone that he would kill his own father. That he might actually listen...

I thought that in terms of what we know, it seemed plausible and within reason.

Any other reason that involves Luke or Leia or the Kenobis, involves either a mindwipe (because she knows her "family") or someone heartlessly leaving and traumatizing her @ a young age by abandoning her with no further explanation.

This one works because it actually uses the pieces we have set in front of us to work and doesn't involve things like clones of Shmi Skywalker or whatever other outlandish things I have read here. :)
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
People who say that the prequels were as well liked as this film are on something. All of them but the third one were hated. And the third one wasn't hated solely due to it not being horrible.

The One Who Knocks said:
In short, his motivating drive is his insecurity over his own power (forcing him to go to the dark side to acquire this power despite not entirely wanting to internally), the pressure he feels based upon his lineage, and the abandonment he has had by his own parents (note that this also is reminiscent of Rey, and is something she'll have to deal with).
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How was he abandoned by his parents?
 
B

BigDug13

Member
LumpOfCole said:
If that weapon is made for the purpose of being anti-lightsaber, isn't it odd that the Stormtroopers are regularly equipping those in the first place? Does the First Order really expect to realistically come across enemies with lightsabers?
Click to expand...

That First Order team's entire mission was tracking down a map piece so they can go kill Luke. So yes, they absolutely expect to come across an enemy with a lightsaber.
 
K

KevinG

Member
Didn't people have a theory at one point that Poe was on the dark side? I feel like I read it here after a trailer released. That's when I went completely dark. Thought he was going to "turn" the entire film.
 
S

SwolBro

Banned
Hawkian said:
The newest movie feels like it was made by adults, for children of all ages. I think you either know exactly what I mean, or you don't.
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It's definitely made by adults, Disney executives to sell toys and that's exactly the problem. At least Lucas was genuine in his attempt. This is just corporate Hollywood shit.
 
H

Haines

Banned
I dunno how anyone liked that yoda scene

I remember being hyped for it to see some poor cgi jumping around and thinking wow this is so lame
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
SwolBro said:
It's definitely made by adults, Disney executives to sell toys and that's exactly the problem. At least Lucas was genuine in his attempt. This is just corporate Hollywood shit.
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You're accusing Disney of selling out more than Lucas? Ewoks man.. ewoks.
 
P

Prompto

Banned
EatChildren said:
Chewie flipping shit was one of the movie's greatest highs. Not moping. Not crying. A roar of anguish and rage followed by effortlessly wrecking shit. Hit the fucking dark side bad guy square in the gut. Mowed down space nazis. Blew the place to pieces. Got the survivors out of there.
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Not to mention the bad guy he shot was someone he probably knew since they were a baby. Chewie didn't give a shit.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Bobby Roberts said:
I think the movie absolutely rules it out. If she believes in Kylo so much that she thinks Han can bring him back even now, there's no way she sends Rey off to live with anyone else (and hides it from Han) because she's scared of the dark side claiming another child.
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Same. The movie leaves room for a lot of things, but not this. She's not Han or Leia's.
 
S

Shaanyboi

Banned
SwolBro said:
It's definitely made by adults, Disney executives to sell toys and that's exactly the problem. At least Lucas was genuine in his attempt. This is just corporate Hollywood shit.
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Because Ewoks, Jar Jar, 9 year old Anakin flying around and saving the day... these were all choices made for the art and not commercial greed, right?
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
ryutaro's mama said:
Kids have been sent away for lesser reasons in SW.
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Leia's actions in this movie basically rule out the premise of that theory. Again, if she thinks Han can actually talk Kylo back over to the good side - if she still has faith in her son even AFTER all the bullshit he did, then it's highly doubtful she'd HIDE A BABY from Han Solo for the express purpose of raising it as a stranger. It doesn't jibe at all with what we're presented.
 
R

ryutaro's mama

Member
brandonh83 said:
What if Ben was turning good but then the dialogue went like this:

Ben: I love you dad.
Han: I know.
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How about the other way:

When Kylo stabs him, Han grabs his face, softly says, "I love you..."

Ren, looking stoically forward, past his dying father, tears in his eyes, pushes out an, "I know"

<han falls to his death>

<chewie fires the bowcaster>
 
T

The One Who Knocks

Member
zero shift said:
How was he abandoned by his parents?
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This is very subtle, and more implied than outright stated, but in Leia's confrontation with Han regarding seeing their son, Leia states that she thought he should train with Luke, and that's why she sent him to him, and it was at that time that she lost her son, and lost Han. One can imagine that Ren wasn't exactly given a choice as to whether or not he would engage in his training, and of course Snoke manipulated him to an extent we are not yet aware (so she 'loses him' to the dark side in that sense by sending him away, but it can also be read as she loses him as that angered him and left to a sense of abandonment/having his destiny forced upon him), but he expresses a bitterness regarding his family in the movie (Rey views Han as the father she never had, and Ren responds that he would have disappointed her implying he disappointed him). Obviously this is a much more questionable motive, and his insecurity and lineage is his main drive, but I think there is enough currently to at least raise being pushed into his destiny by his parents as an additional factor.

EDIT: The main scenes regarding his motivations are the Snoke comments, any defeat he has at the hands of another, his two temper tantrums, the scene where he prays to Vader's helmet to have the power of the dark side and be convinced to kill Han, the scene where he's with Han and admits he's being torn apart, and the extremely important scene where he's interrogating Rey (basically the greatest insight we get in my opinion).

EDIT: I will admit though that I do like the idea of him holding issues with being forced into Luke's academy by Leia/his parents and feeling a sense of abandonment over that partly because of how it mirrors a possible issue Rey will have to contend with, particularly if Rey is Luke's daughter.
 
M

Mashin Haters

Member
SwolBro said:
311.gif



That's hilarious. That guy was completely out of place, George Lucas kind out of place.
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This dude trained his whole life in melee combat. He took the opportunity to have his moment and fight one on one with someone with a lightsaber. The other storm troopers used to laugh at him. Telling him melee combat will never be practical in the battlefield. Unfortunately they were right and he got his shit rocked by a bowcaster :(
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
catapult37 said:
If that rando had been Phasma, we'd be hearing a lot fewer complaints about her character. Would've made a lot more narrative sense, too. Can't figure out why they didn't do that.
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Agreed, but as Salsa said, it was great seeing that a random Stormtrooper can have that much competent skill, making ALL of them feel far, far formidable than they've ever been.

Phasma was wasted but let's see what they do with her next time.
 
M

Mega

Banned
Toxi said:
Finn decided to switch sides because his squad was ordered to murder unarmed civilians.

Do you not understand the difference between that and killing soldiers shooting at you in the heat of battle? Because it's kinda an important difference.
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It's shocking how many people play dumb at being unable to make this crucial distinction. This happens in real life all the time. Vietnam, Gulf War, Iraq War! Soldiers who carried on fine fighting combatants lost their morale, sanity and confidence in their country only when civilians were attacked.

Can't believe people are still hung up and in disbelief that a profusely bleeding abdomen after getting blasted by a very powerful gun could negatively affect a person's ability to fight. Armored men were blown the fuck away and killed by this thing and yet STILL naysayers can't buy that a nontrained girl (who's actually trained and a naturally strong Force user) had a fighting chance.

Can't believe people are complaining about the comedy being out of place when it's so incredibly similar to the humor in ANH and ESB.

And then there are the weird complaints about the overall casting being poor. What? Why?

The intense nitpicking and need to have everything over-explained (and re-explained) in excruciating detail like its evidence in a case, to one's specific demands and personal satisfaction, is unreal. I swear some of you would have torn ESB to absolute shreds if you were around in 1980 and had Internet.
 
S

SwolBro

Banned
Ferrio said:
You're accusing Disney of selling out more than Lucas? Ewoks man.. ewoks.
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Disney isn't selling out, this is what they do. Lucas, he was just lost lol. They're all bad but this movie is bad in a very generic safe way while the Lucas films were awful in a completely different way.

Mashin Haters said:
This dude trained his whole life in melee combat. He took the opportunity to have his moment and fight one on one with someone with a lightsaber. The other storm troopers used to laugh at him. Telling him melee combat will never be practical in the battlefield. Unfortunately they were right and he got his shit rocked by a bowcaster :(
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lol
 
D

duckroll

Member
Einchy said:
It came from one of those books.

I haven't read it but apparently Finn was top of his class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cIxS5n-D-Y

This video talks about everything we know about Finn that's canon so far.
Click to expand...

Thanks. It sounded plausible enough but also sounded like the sort of "who needs to know" fanfiction made up to argue a point. I guess in a way, Star Wars extended canon stuff has always been just legit fanfiction tho! :)
 
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