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[SephLuis]

I don't even understand his "complex" motivations. It seems more like a bunch of plots were fused together in a Frankenstein monster, then someone gave it a hat, a steampunk beak mask and taught him some latin sentences.

I liked Delta as a character because almost everything he does and why is left up for interpretation.

One of the reasons was for him and Phi to be born with powers. Thus he had to put Diana and Sigma through a life or death situation or else they might have been born normal.

The other reason was to possibly release Radical 6 into the world and kill a terrorist who would cause humanity extinction.

Last was that if Radical-6 was not released, he would pass the task of finding the terrorist to the nine survivors of the game.

My own personal theory is that Delta along with Old Phi used their powers to see the future and maybe try to stop humanity extinction, but they fail. Delta, in a desperate last resort, develops the Radical-6 virus in hope to kill the terrorist and leave part of the population alive (Don't ask me why he needed the whole Decision Game to spread the virus).

If they were born without their powers, the world would end before anyone could do anything about it. Thus the reason they couldn't be born as normal people.

To me, Delta passing the task of stopping the terrorist to the nine survivors means he's quit. That every possibility that he could manipulate and use would, at best, end up becoming the VLR timeline. Thus it's like an all-in bet, all things considered. Either the nine stop the terrorist and maybe create a better timeline where humanity isn't nearly all killed or face extinction.

Another thing I disliked was how consciousness jumping has been rendered mundane. It was supposed to be an incredibly rare power that only Phi and Sigma possessed, and IIRC Junpei and Akane were explicitly stated to be unable to use it in VLR. Now, everybody and their mothers can use it.

This bothered me too.

I would have like to see a bigger difference between morphogenetic field used by Junpei/Akane, the jump used by Phi/Sigma/Carlos/Everyone and Gab and the technological side used by Sean.

It's been a long time since I played 999 and VLR so I might be wrong on this, but the morphogenetic field would be accessing information from other timelines and not jump all your consciousness through space and time. That would mean, for example, in the last decision that Junpei and Akane would have to die, but the other Junpei and Akane would knew everything that happened.

In the same vein, Sigma/Phi jumping power allows them to change bodies and see what happens in other timelines. However, if those versions of them die, the knowledge isn't accessible to other Sigma/Phi. The jumping power allows them to escape death, but in order to learn, they have to go through everything themselves.

Sean, being a quantum machine can, theoretically, jump between timelines and have a "pool of memories" just like the morphogenetic field. It could be extremely OP thinking like that, so I have no idea how it could be used.

 

[xZoneHunter]

I agree with what most people have said so far.

I think the biggest twist for me was the fact that Phi was Sigma's and Diana's (and basically Luna's as well) daughter. One fucked up family...

Also, i feel quite ashamed for shipping Sigma & Phi in VLR. ;_;

 

[saturnine]

I liked Delta as a character because almost everything he does and why is left up for interpretation.

One of the reasons was for him and Phi to be born with powers. Thus he had to put Diana and Sigma through a life or death situation or else they might have been born normal.

The other reason was to possibly release Radical 6 into the world and kill a terrorist who would cause humanity extinction.

Last was that if Radical-6 was not released, he would pass the task of finding the terrorist to the nine survivors of the game.

My own personal theory is that Delta along with Old Phi used their powers to see the future and maybe try to stop humanity extinction, but they fail. Delta, in a desperate last resort, develops the Radical-6 virus in hope to kill the terrorist and leave part of the population alive (Don't ask me why he needed the whole Decision Game to spread the virus).

If they were born without their powers, the world would end before anyone could do anything about it. Thus the reason they couldn't be born as normal people.

To me, Delta passing the task of stopping the terrorist to the nine survivors means he's quit. That every possibility that he could manipulate and use would, at best, end up becoming the VLR timeline. Thus it's like an all-in bet, all things considered. Either the nine stop the terrorist and maybe create a better timeline where humanity isn't nearly all killed or face extinction.

Well I get what he does and why, but it's more like I find them hard to believe. I'm talking partly from a writing perspective.

The "I was engineering my own birth" thing I find already very shaky. What does him being the son of Sigma and Diana bring to the story? They don't even confront him about it! At best, it was to give a reason for his powers, but that wasn't really necessary either.

His powers are also left entirely unexplained, in a series that relish smothering its players in pseudoscientific technobabble. His only "drawback" is being unable to shift, but he can read the mind of shifters and learn about the different worlds through them, so it doesn't change a thing anyway.

The Radical 6 thing was particularly botched in my opinion. Am I supposed to believe that the glorious leader of a cult of religious fanatics that can go head to head with an international effort of secret services and has access to mindreading and future reading powers can't prevent a single fellow religious fanatic from blowing up a bomb? Even if the single dude was part of a bigger group, he could still exceptionally cooperate with the authorities that are also actively using espers.

Oh, and he also has access to a quantum computer that can simulate every state of realities at the same time. Including the one where a single dude kickstart a nuclear warfare.


There's a lot of other nitpicks I have (like his age, his presence during the game, Sean's creation), but the Radical-6 thing is the major one. In the end, a lot of aspects of his character feel tacked on in a way. It's a shame, because until the reveal, I was liking him and his personality.

 

[GaimeGuy]

BOSS PHI

... Gee I wonder who D could be?

 

[DNAbro]

I'm pretty disappointed.

VLR and 999 were so high up there with VLR being one of my favorite games of all time. So many things felt off. The Q = Delta twist felt out of nowhere. Looking back, yes they never called Sean by the name Q. But they also never called him Sean until you acknowledge Delta. Complete fucking ass pull. I was legit thinking there was some Schrodinger's Cat type shit going on where Delta didn't exist until you observed him, but uhh no, they just didn't ever really mention him I guess.

I had problems with Akane who seemed to be all over the place. That Akane should have been the same Akane from VLR, so she should have known everything that occurred there, so I don't know why she didn't. I was expecting cold heartless Akane, not sweet to psycho Akane.

On top of that, Sigma and Phi felt weird as hell too. I would have expected them to be all over trying to figure out how Radical 6 got out but it wasn't even that important to them, but conversely my favorite part was seeing how VLR actually happened. That made me so happy to finally see that.

Then there was the pacing. Puzzles never felt like they got more difficult and the only one that took significant time was transporter room. Most of them were good and I have little complaints in regards to that. This game didn't have an insane/mind blowing end puzzle like I was anticipating. Q room was awesome in VLR and felt like a perfect final puzzle for that game. Sudoku in 999 as well. I don't even remember what my final puzzle was.

Loved the "it's all the same building and waking up at different times" twist.

Most of this stuff was negative, but I did enjoy my time with it and I'm glad we got a conclusion. I super feel sorry for anybody who starts with it for whatever bad reason.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Just completed the Outbreak fragment.

Mira... you fucking bitch.

.... Wait, the announcer said junpei and akane were dead. ._. SOMETHING'S FISHY HERE.

 

[mStudios]

I'm expecting some "??? Is the the player/camera that sees everything" kinda bullshit.

 

[DNAbro]

ALSO WHY DID DELTA SHOOT GAB IN THAT ONE ENDING

THE DOG DID NOTHING WRONG YOU FUCK

Spoiler

I'm guessing to get rid of a reason to stay in that timeline but still that's just fucked up

 

[Taruranto]

Well I get what he does and why, but it's more like I find them hard to believe. I'm talking partly from a writing perspective.

The "I was engineering my own birth" thing I find already very shaky. What does him being the son of Sigma and Diana bring to the story? They don't even confront him about it! At best, it was to give a reason for his powers, but that wasn't really necessary either.

His powers are also left entirely unexplained, in a series that relish smothering its players in pseudoscientific technobabble. His only "drawback" is being unable to shift, but he can read the mind of shifters and learn about the different worlds through them, so it doesn't change a thing anyway.

The Radical 6 thing was particularly botched in my opinion. Am I supposed to believe that the glorious leader of a cult of religious fanatics that can go head to head with an international effort of secret services and has access to mindreading and future reading powers can't prevent a single fellow religious fanatic from blowing up a bomb? Even if the single dude was part of a bigger group, he could still exceptionally cooperate with the authorities that are also actively using espers.

Oh, and he also has access to a quantum computer that can simulate every state of realities at the same time. Including the one where a single dude kickstart a nuclear warfare.


There's a lot of other nitpicks I have (like his age, his presence during the game, Sean's creation), but the Radical-6 thing is the major one. In the end, a lot of aspects of his character feel tacked on in a way. It's a shame, because until the reveal, I was liking him and his personality.

Yeah, more I read about Delta character, even ignoring the ANCIENT ALIEN device, the worse it gets.

It felt like a character specifically created to answer every plot plot they could think more than anything. "a bunch of plots were fused together in a Frankenstein monster," is actually a pretty apt description.

I'm expecting some "??? Is the the player/camera that sees everything" kinda bullshit.

That was obliviously the intention in VLR, but they forgot for fuck know reasons.

 

[DNAbro]

And as one last complaint that I just thought of, the science and philosophy explanations in this game were kind of silly and felt almost irrelevant to the game. Like the anthropic principle one. There was no real reason for it. It didn't really help the situation and Zero had no reason for it. The Monty Hall problem was another weird one, like why even put it in? It had no relevance to anything. Hell Zero had absolutely no reason for any of the puzzles.

 

[Dr. Worm]

This felt to me like one of those games that's really, really great for the first 90% of it, and then just crashes entirely at the end, with the Q/Zero/Brother/Delta reveal and the happily-ever-after ending. In a way, I think the series just got too tangled up with too many separate concepts, and twisted itself into some awkward knots.

I would have like to see a bigger difference between morphogenetic field used by Junpei/Akane, the jump used by Phi/Sigma/Carlos/Everyone and Gab and the technological side used by Sean.

It's been a long time since I played 999 and VLR so I might be wrong on this, but the morphogenetic field would be accessing information from other timelines and not jump all your consciousness through space and time. That would mean, for example, in the last decision that Junpei and Akane would have to die, but the other Junpei and Akane would knew everything that happened.

In the same vein, Sigma/Phi jumping power allows them to change bodies and see what happens in other timelines. However, if those versions of them die, the knowledge isn't accessible to other Sigma/Phi. The jumping power allows them to escape death, but in order to learn, they have to go through everything themselves.

Sean, being a quantum machine can, theoretically, jump between timelines and have a "pool of memories" just like the morphogenetic field. It could be extremely OP thinking like that, so I have no idea how it could be used.

I actually like the game's more unified interpretation. One concept brought up during the game is that a person without memories is essentially reborn, since your memories are what layer onto your genetics to make you an individual. Morphogenticizing and SHIFTing are just two sides of the same coin, a distinction without a difference; if Junpei and Akane send everything they know to a separate Junpei and Akane right before they die, is there really a discernible difference between that and SHIFTing? The quantum computer does the same thing, through the same morphogenetic field. The only difference is that the characters from each of the three games came up with separate names for the phenomenon.

 

[StarStabbedMoon]

ALSO WHY DID DELTA SHOOT GAB IN THAT ONE ENDING

THE DOG DID NOTHING WRONG YOU FUCK

Spoiler

I'm guessing to get rid of a reason to stay in that timeline but still that's just fucked up

Yea I just rewatched the ending. I still don't get this.

 

[Soulflarz]

Just finished uhm

what the heck?
I'm convinced this is not the original intention for ZE3
So many things in the Q&As were supposed to be in ze3 and aren't even able to be shoehorned in there, as if he went a completely different direction.

This game...didn't really provide closure and instead provided plotholes and some...weird...ending? of sorts

I dunno what to think anymore, considering I basically praised 999/VLR day after day for four years and...this game is just...missing something badly at the end.

It also introduced aliens and more mind powers while going away from the mysteries of morphogenic fields and leaning more towards making it a power that people can tap into all casual, with resonances and such. Erg.
Aliens didn't...really stick well for me.

TL;DR am confused to death as to why anyone chose to end it as they did and will think on it more.

edit:
plothole ideas+more thoughts

Okay, so...in the simplest of terms as to how 999 worked and why ZTD doesn't and subsequently makes VLR not work-- Akane at first dies in 999 in the incinerator. Or at least, she would, except she stops it with the help of future Junpei. This would create a paradox in which Akane can only save herself because she managed to save herself, but thankfully, Santa exists. We can presume the first time santa goes and causes this giant setup for her to live, she lives, she helps him from then on, completing the loop. It has a way to start initially, in some sense. As the series has clearly established, if it is possible, it will happen by necessity.
VLR? VLR is started by ZTD. ZTD however only...exists to cause Delta/Phi. I have no idea why VLR even exists now, sending people back didn't actually make a difference per se, we just played a single timeline farther out for the hell of it (this game also didn't properly explain blink winkel when they tried to use perspective as the twist, ugh).
But yeah, adding to that, it has no initial 'trigger' to cause ZTD, since you can't not exist and suddenly do something to close a loop and ensure your existence. Maybe they would have existed otherwise from Sigma and Diana prepping for VLR in some twisted timeline, but again, VLR would have no reason to exist, as Phi and Delta have no reason to exist, so whythehelldoesfreethesoulexistaaaaaaaaa they're even in 999. The only argument for this is 'in some random one off timeline Sigma and Diana met and had twins by chance and they were Delta and Phi and could somehow go back in time', else this setup wouldn't have happened at all.
-Phis brooch also solely comes from herself, no? No one initially gave it to her.
-wheelchair guy is a much weaker twist than us having agency at the end of VLR, weird route to take, could have just made 'us' a character/zero and gone meta for a much more dramatic effect, since that was the implication at the end of VLR, and as such, anyone who looked into Uchikoshis others works had this idea spoiled for them completely because the idea was reused (an issue, to be sure)
-again, the Q&A gave many things that simply didn't happen in this game, which is why I think ZE3 isn't...the original idea in full perhaps? I mean, sigma loses his arms and eyes from a bomb. That's not even how a bomb works- glass in eye? Okay. Both arms but rest of you being okay? Yeah, no.


this list goes on, this was just off the top of my head for the stuff I found off.

 

[StarStabbedMoon]

Hey, guys. Done here!
I agree with what most people are saying, it was really good, but it failed a bit as a VLR sequel.
I can forgive that, I'm just glad this game exists, but some things not mentioned irk me.

- Kyle was the worst offender. We were really looking forward to that and dropping that matter was like negating a big chunk of what made VLR important.
- Brother. I was fine with Delta being Zero, being Brother. But it seems like they called him Brother, but removed everything that made him like that. No mention of Left (sorta), no mention of why Radical 6 has these effects, no mention of what his beliefs really are. Dio in VLR was supposed to be sent by Brother to stop Akane's plan. But why, if Brother needed it to succeed, as detailed in ZTD?
If you think about it, the plot would be the same even if Delta WASN'T Brother and wasn't part of a cult.
So, in a sense, they really dropped the Brother part of VLR.
I was really looking forward to that, and if you search on Gfaqs, you can find a lengthy "Brother facts" done by me before release.
- Akane's memory. While Junpei forgot everything, Akane should have too, judging by what she told Sigma in VLR's ending. Oh, well.
There were also some "convenient" retcons.
"Akane, your parents didn't die in a car accident, you were lied to."
"Yes, I had a brother, but he was a step-brother"

What was really genius was Eric.
He was pointless, but was one of the best Red Herrings in the world!


I'm sure there is more, but that's ok for now, I will think about it a little bit more.

EDIT:
Also, did you notice that the Crash keys Twitter revealed all participants except n.4 and we thought they were just ninja'd by Famitsu?
Turns out Participant 4 WASN'T the child with the helmet!

I mean, yea, they could have included more VLR (and even more so 999) references, but to be honest, for a video game sequel ZTD went way above and beyond what we're used to seeing in game narrative continuity. We may not know everything, but the game still creates and explains the exact conditions needed for VLR to happen, as it did. It's hard for me to fault ZTD for not having more VLR references when, (1) it already has a ton, and (2) the bar is set so low compared to other games.

Now that I think of it though, if there's anything that irks me it's the lack of 999 references, not VLR. Considering there are VLR references everywhere, all we get from 999 is Junpei and Akane. That's pretty much it. I get why they did that, VLR is the game that needed its story finished, but as the final game in the series and the trilogy, it's a shame there's not more of a tribute to the one that started it all.

 

[Dandy Crocodile]

Junpei talks a bit about Ace, Seven, Lotus, and Santa too. And we know what happens to Snake from VLR. There wasn't much more to tell and they even had a Funyarinpa reference in the game.

 

[MaximumSpider]

I thought VLR was the better game, not saying that this was a bad vame however.

In VLR, there was a more sense of mystery, no one knew anyone and it felt like anyone could betray you at any given time. Here, everyone knew each other and instead of being grouped together, they were all seperated. One of my favorite moments in this game was when Mira found her way to the D side and started killing everyone. That was exciting because at the time, we didn't know who it was or how they got over to their side. Wish there was more of that.

Then there's Delta and his motives. Well, first of all, has he just always been watching with them? Where did he come from during the scene where Sean points him out? Like seriously, I was waiting for a big explanation, but the only thing we got was Eric referencing him once in a flashback. Also, bringing mind hacking into this was...weird? But I do recall something like that in a VLR ending though.

He killed Gab for unexplained reasons and I was waiting for him to bring up the fact that Mira was a serial killer in that timeline but it never happened.

The ending was pretty bad. There was no final puzzle at all which was extremely disappointing.

 

[Soulflarz]

wait where the hell is kyle

 

[Soulflarz]

why is the fact that kyle was completely forgotten just shattering me

 

[mStudios]

We should make a Kickstarter for Uchi to finish the Zero escape series, or at least, a better epilogue lol

 

[Soulflarz]

We should make a Kickstarter for Uchi to finish the Zero escape series, or at least, a better epilogue lol

"petition: rewrite ze3"

reading this thread through

man
someone went wrong somewhere

Delta doesn't need to exist
His entire twist does nothing for the game overall.

 

[Dr. Worm]

For all the glaring inconsistencies, odd motivations, and dropped plotlines, there are a couple of nuances I did appreciate.

The description of Reverie Syndrome is eerily similar to what the player goes through, drifting between bits and pieces of experiences, and the revelation that Maria is uncontrollably SHIFTing shines a whole new light on Carlos, showing that his SHIFTiness is inherited genetically, but also showing that there are degrees to how one can be attuned to the morphogenetic field. As a build-up from 999 and VLR, it stands only to reason that the protagonists from those games are more aware and in control of their own abilities, guiding Carlos and Diana in expressing their own connections to the field, and culminating toward the end with the huge SHIFTfest, with everyone drawing upon their knowledge of other timelines to open the Force Quit Box. Going back to the 1st Ten Minutes Ending was just icing.

Even with the disappointment of the loose ends, I still really enjoyed ZTD. I legit got misty-eyed during multiple scenes, and ended up particularly struck by a number of emotional moments. If anything, I wonder if it might've been better had it been able to exist as its own thing, as opposed to being sandwiched in between 999 and VLR.

 

[MaximumSpider]

D-did they forget the VLR team in the post-payout??

 

[Soulflarz]

D-did they forget the VLR team in the post-payout??

We don't talk about fanfiction in this thread, but prefer to keep to real sourced work

Spoiler

screw that mira thing ;_;

 

[PurpleMaster]

Yeah, ending kinda sucked and it really feels that they tried to retcon and fit stuff where it didn't belong (e.g. Delta being Brother)
But the rest of it was stellar, so I just hope that with time, after digesting the ending, I will be able to see mostly good things about it.
I found another Q reference, by the way.
After the infirmary, when they announce the death count, they mention Q and Junpei says "even Q! He couldn't hear or speak!"
I remember that that sentence troubled me, like what the hell does he mean by that?
Also, before the vote, Eric says "I know we are supposed to let the leader choose, but..." and he's looking away from Sean and Mira.
I'm sure there's more.

Also, crazy theory: was the announcer Karen Stassmann? I think that Old Phi participated in the project and recorded all the announcer lines.

 

[Soulflarz]

Yeah, ending kinda sucked and it really feels that they tried to retcon and fit stuff where it didn't belong (e.g. Delta being Brother)
But the rest of it was stellar, so I just hope that with time, after digesting the ending, I will be able to see mostly good things about it.
I found another Q reference, by the way.
After the infirmary, when they announce the death count, they mention Q and Junpei says "even Q! He couldn't hear or speak!"
I remember that that sentence troubled me, like what the hell does he mean by that?
Also, before the vote, Eric says "I know we are supposed to let the leader choose, but..." and he's looking away from Sean and Mira.
I'm sure there's more.

To be honest, I unsure if ZE is considered 'good writing' for using these baits on you, or just is really good at abusing the fact we are conditioned for bad writing in other games.

"That man over there? Oh, nothing!" is an issue in games, as so many games ignore the non blatant people like that constantly, but ZE takes the time to remind you you're stupid for forgetting them. However, I recently realized for the most part I only discredit those statements as nonsense or bad writing at the time because other games have weirdly phrased sentences too often or individuals who are mentioned who we just don't care about in the end.

 

[abisales]

I don't understand that, in the end, any (Sigma and Phi) not mentioned the crimes of Brother, i.e.: the abduction of Alice's father and other researches for create his beloved clones of Left, Myrmidons.

And I am sad because the no-mention of Clover, Alice and ?

 

[Megabyte117]

Just finished and still trying to process the game as a whole but... initial thoughts are that I'm disappointed at the lack of additional interactions/discussion between Sigma, Dianna, and Phi after they discover they're all actually related. Nor do they go in-depth in the fact that Delta, Phi's brother and their son, turned out as he did. That ending and those revelations are incredible, but I wish they got more screentime/dialogue dedicated to it.

 

[GoldStarz]

So like...

Did they just completely forget about Alice and Clover travelling back through time?

Or that Free the Soul is already considered a terrorist organization?

Like I was half expecting Alice to pop out of the middle of the desert again when he was spouting his "What would you arrest me for? c" bullshit yelling "You are under arrest for suspicion of terrorist activities, kidnapping, and murdering people, you dumb fuck, you goddamn lead a fanatic group, dipshi! What do you mean what am I going to arrest you for?!"

Like I mean fuck that's KINDA a big detail.

 

[MaximumSpider]

I don't understand that, in the end, any (Sigma and Phi) not mentioned the crimes of Brother, i.e.: the abduction of Alice's father and other researches for create his beloved clones of Left, Myrmidons.

And I am sad because the no-mention of Clover, Alice and ?

Ah, I forgot about the Alice father thing.
Damn, I waited 4 years for this..

 

[Veldin]

So like...

Did they just completely forget about Alice and Clover travelling back through time?

Or that Free the Soul is already considered a terrorist organization?

Like I was half expecting Alice to pop out of the middle of the desert again when he was spouting his "What would you arrest me for? c" bullshit yelling "You are under arrest for suspicion of terrorist activities, kidnapping, and murdering people, you dumb fuck, you goddamn lead a fanatic group, dipshi! What do you mean what am I going to arrest you for?!"

Like I mean fuck that's KINDA a big detail.

These things plus Kyle and Free The Soul not being explained are what upset me about the ending. I really enjoyed the way the story unfolded through about 90% of the game, but it seems as if there were huge chunks of the ending that got dropped, and as a result none of these plot threads were resolved. Some important questions got answered while twice as many were added or left hanging still from previous games. I wanted to learn more about Crash Keys vs Free The Soul. I wanted to see Myrmidons. I really wanted to know why Radical-6 came to be (and the real reason ended up being weak). There were so many things about Free The Soul that weren't addressed here and it drives me nuts. They're an absolutely crucial part of the story that ties the 3 games together and it just kinda gets waved along. Ultimately we're left with aliens, an unnamed terrorist and complex motives.

I liked most of it, but there are so many unexplained things in the end that it's hard to adore it the way I did 999 and VLR. We also didn't get to see Phi with red hair, fuck that

 

[Taruranto]

Kyle is clearly

Spoiler

the dog.

No, but seriously, why did Delta murder him and chain him for no reason in some endings? It seems needlessly cruel and pointless.

 

[PurpleMaster]

Kyle is clearly

Spoiler

the dog.

No, but seriously, why did Delta murder him and chain him for no reason in some endings? It seems needlessly cruel and pointless.

This is probably the biggest mystery of the game. It was not related to VLR, so there's no reason not to explain that.
I really think there's much more about Gab that we don't know. Like that he's as old as Brother, maybe. They told us that he's a really old dog, but never actually bothered to explain why this is important and he's clearly very attached to Zero.

 

[Zomba13]

Worst bit was definitely "suddenly aliens!". Like, c'mon. Especially going into how they have thirteen fingers and multiple arms and such. I can buy the whole thing with conciousness going through time and space because of all the setup, morphogenetic fields, SHIFT etc but the whole actually transporting (faxing) to another universe just doesn't sit right with me. Especially when the explanation isn't "Zero spent a lot of time and money building a physical device that can access the morphogenetic field" but was instead "lol aliens could do it hundreds of years ago because aliens".

The rest I'm fine with and I liked the ending.

 

[DNAbro]

After sleeping on the ending. I'm probably even more disappointed. The only thing I was hoping for with this game was an ending I would be satisfied with and I'm not happy with it.

 

[Aaronrules380]

So one question I had: Why was Carlos there? Was it just a Lotus type thing where Delta knew he was supposed to be present? Was it chance? Everyone else seems to have some connection, but Carlos is just there with no connection to things like the murder case or other characters

 

[Gruco]

Finished last night.

I general, I think it was good but also a victim to expectations. VLR and 999 are hard acts to follow. 999 pulled off branching storylines and twist endings so successfully that I didn't really think the VLR could follow it up. It did, by really radically and dramatically raising the stakes of the game, with incredibly meticulous writing, and by swallowing the branching paths concept whole. ZTD really didn't have that much room to raise the stakes (this is a common problem with movie sequels), and really didn't work as hard to set up the payoffs.

So all that said....

I thought the start of the game was great. A really confusing preemptive exit, and the amnesia drug made peicing together the scenes interesting in a way that was different from VLR's flowchart. Dead people everywhere and no idea why you'd been asleep so long.

I LOVED the crossbow ending. Mira was just so flat and inhuman. It was "oh. this person is locked in with everyone?" I actually think she made a better "bad guy" than either Dio or Ace. Don't think they did enough with her after that scene though.

I didn't even mind the Alien technology. I thought it brought a cool angle to branching paths and made the game more interesting. I don't care if it's Alien technology. This is a game where people casually explore the multiverse. Doesn't seem like a big deal in context.

The "It's the same facility" scene was pretty great and a nice payoff. My favorite part of this was spending the entire game wondering why Gab was in EVERY SCENE. That little guy was everywhere! It was a great hint. And the long sleeping windows and the other hint. There's never an explanation for why you always sleep so long.

The Twins scene was.....way too long. But I liked it. In VLR there were so many ending where people stayed behind, which just faded out. So I always kind of wondered what happened there. The continuity of it is an insane mindfuck but I'm 100% ok with that in this series. Also, there being a brother we didn't know about, along with "Brother" being a bad guy we knew of, meant that it gave away the game for Zero's identity. There was no one else relevant to the story! They needed more references both to the past and to the world outside the bunker.

Basically, the payoff to Q and Sean was weak for two reasons. First, While being technically true that nobody called the kid Q, it's...just not interesting. It's and "OK, I guess so?". Second, the references to the old man existing were too oblique. In VLR, the eye jokes and old man jokes were everywhere. The hologram scene helped set it up. This just felt "not technically wrong" rather than "oh wow"

I liked Carlos way more than I expected. I even liked Junpei. I expected Akane to be more hard core. Diana was great. Sigma was ok, Phi needed more to do, Q-team was weird and creepy, which was good. It's hard to have a game with 5 heroes and 4 legacy heroes.

Last point - the pacing was shit. Absolute shit. There was no real "final room" at all, and like 4 hours at the end for almost every story point. They were too inflexible with the locks.

So anyway, I guess my take away is that this game does some things very well, but is just missing a little something extra. Arms cut in the exit. A different person in the suit for one pathway. Something. Part of that is the weakness of the Sean/Q payoff, but part is just the high expectations ZTD had from following two masterworks.

 

[Soulflarz]

Woke up

Still disappointed at the wall of dropped points

 

[ColossalLazy]

Just finished it. Still processing it. Overall I really liked but was disappointed with the ending. I expected something more.

But judging on how they put post-ending stuff in files, some planned content must have been cut due to budget constraints. For example, I totally wanted to see Akane meeting Zero in the Apocalypse ending.

 

[GoldStarz]

I think what REALLY irks me if the ending's presentation:

It relies on codewords. Yeah, this is a minor point for me because I wrote that shit down, but imagine if you didn't and had to search through that monster of a timeline again. To be honest, I only wrote it down out of fear for that happening.

There is no puzzle at all. 999's upside down sudoku was pretty dumb after every puzzle I solved prior, but at least that still was presented as a big climactic puzzle. On the other end of the spectrum, VLR had Q which was one giant puzzle room filled with puzzles from you game but even harder now and given how bullshit some of them were in the first place, yeah I had to use a guide, but it still felt like a finale.

Finally, that "Final Decision" was fucking bullshit. The characters have been doing that literally the entire game, the only reason why it's a Decision Game now is because what it is out in the open, but by that point it's been out in the open for a while because even if the player hasn't figured it out themselves by that, Team C's route more or less outright explains it and revolves around it. How the fuck is doing exactly what we've been doing the entire game a hard decision by that point? I actually expected there to be some sort of twist where staying would be the good end and leaving would be the bad, but nope. It is exactly what it says on the tin.

 

[Dandy Crocodile]

I think what REALLY irks me if the ending's presentation:

It relies on codewords. Yeah, this is a minor point for me because I wrote that shit down, but imagine if you didn't and had to search through that monster of a timeline again. To be honest, I only wrote it down out of fear for that happening.

Honestly, though, this is the third game in a series that almost requires you to write things down in order to solve puzzles and progress. VLR had the exact same thing with the bomb codes and computer logins. It's nothing new.

 

[Alec]

I am racking my brain trying to think of who Kyle might be in this game because I just can't accept something that was such a big part of VLR was completely dropped.

So Kyle and ? (me) switched bodies with eachother. What if the "me" that played VLR in 2012 (playing as Kyle) SHIFTed with a "me" that just completed ZTD without getting the True Ending in VLR? That would mean that the "me" from 2012 started playing ZTD with all of the knowledge gained from previous ZE games (meaning I am Kyle) and the "me" that completed ZTD without the knowledge from VLR's True Ending got stranded in the looping VLR timeline (meaning I am ?)?

What if I can't SHIFT on my own and was only able to do so because of the resonance effect in ZTD's ending?

...My head hurts.

 

[moomoo14]

Just finished the game. Still processing, but overall I'm really satisfied. There are some holes in there (why did Delta shoot Gab, exactly?), but overall I'm honestly surprised at how well it manages to wrap most things up.

I love how they handled the justification for the game taking place in the first place. Delta making it to ensure his own existence as well as the survival of humanity is quite good, and unexpected. I also like how they set-up the VLR timeline. Akane and Junpei coming from a different timeline allowed for it all to make sense, considering Diana had to kill them in order to get out.

I also liked how there was also justification for the adoption of a cinematic style of telling the story over the visual novel. You were never playing as these characters. Instead, you were watching them as Delta. It's why you never see the inner monologues of the characters, and it's also why the characters will do things that go completely against their nature. (I find it interesting that the three characters you make decisions for, Carlos, Diana, and Q/Sean, are the ones that would be the least likely to make decisions that would result in people getting killed). I also enjoyed how the game would make certain choices clearly advantageous over others, like the AB room or with the gun/furnace room. You picking other choices would be illogical to all logic... which is part of the point.

I will say that it is a bit odd how few mentions there are of Delta in the story. You'd think characters would mention him more.

Oh, I also loved the game's set-up on the ethics of Shifting and time travel in general. It's really well set-up, and I finally understand what Uchikoshi was going for when he said he wanted to challenge the morality of the player. It was about the morality of time travel. It's even a direct part of the very end, and how we don't see the decision the 9 make at the end. It's up to the player to decide if Delta is guilty or not. Really cool stuff.

Honestly, I'm somewhat surprised at the amount of people in here who were disappointed in it. Like, it's not perfect, but it's kind of nuts how it manages to actually tie up pretty much everything. Overall, I'd probably put it a bit under 999 and VLR though, if only because the Delta twist isn't as well-done as what was done in the other two. That, and the fragment stuff made for some really weird pacing. Still, awesome stuff. I really look forward to the question and answer session with Uchikoshi.

Edit: Regarding Kyle, isn't he Delta? He is the one who is able to view the many scenarios and take over the bodies of people for short periods of time. He'd be the one who would give the players of the decision game the knowledge of the different timelines of different people. No one else in the Zero Escape universe that we know of has the mind hack ability besides Delta. Therefore, HE was the key to creating a future where no one had to die. A future where the 9 participants were free and determined to keep the entire population of the earth from dying at the hands of a madman.

 

[Alec]

Regarding Kyle, isn't he Delta? He is the one who is able to view the many scenarios and take over the bodies of people for short periods of time. He'd be the one who would give the players of the decision game the knowledge of the different timelines of different people. No one else in the Zero Escape universe that we know of has the mind hack ability besides Delta. Therefore, HE was the key to creating a future where no one had to die. A future where the 9 participants were free and determined to keep the entire population of the earth from dying at the hands of a madman.

Delta can't shift, though.

I seem to recall Sigma specifically mentioning Kyle one single time in this game, but I can't recall where...

 

[SilentRob]

I think what REALLY irks me if the ending's presentation:

It relies on codewords. Yeah, this is a minor point for me because I wrote that shit down, but imagine if you didn't and had to search through that monster of a timeline again. To be honest, I only wrote it down out of fear for that happening.

There is no puzzle at all. 999's upside down sudoku was pretty dumb after every puzzle I solved prior, but at least that still was presented as a big climactic puzzle. On the other end of the spectrum, VLR had Q which was one giant puzzle room filled with puzzles from you game but even harder now and given how bullshit some of them were in the first place, yeah I had to use a guide, but it still felt like a finale.

VLR did 100% exactly the same thing with the bomb passwords. And you are saying VLR had a better finale because it had a room filled with re-used puzzles you used a walkthrough for because how "how bullshit" they are? Not sure how strong your argument is there...

 

[mStudios]

Delta shot Gab, so the teams don't feel empathy for him.

Why? Another mystery

VLR has a better epilogue and a better ending overall. You "FEEL" the ending, you can taste it. In this game you go all like, "welp, that was it."

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

Finished this yesterday and I think it's a really good game but also a weak conclusion to the series. It has some great narrative tricks and interesting twists, but It leaves more questions than answers.

For me: 999 > VLR = ZTD

 

[Kraatu]

OH GUYS.
Something really cool popped on my head right now.

SNAKE = LEFT or other DELTA

Think about it. Closed eyes since they have that creepy purple colour, plus shaved hair!
If Delta had hair, everyone would say: AHA!
Then you'd say, OK, but what about the age? And I say, that's just like transported PHI.

Welcome aboard ZE4 tinfoil hype train. CHOO CHOO

EDIT: That would explain Free the Soul robe as well. But does not explain Dio and stuff.

 

[calc84maniac]

OH GUYS.
Something really cool popped on my head right now.

SNAKE = LEFT

Think about it. Closed eyes since they have that creepy purple colour, plus shaved hair!
If Delta had hair, everyone would say: AHA!
Then you'd say, OK, but what about the age? And I say, that's just like transported PHI.

Welcome aboard ZE4 tinfoil hype train. CHOO CHOO

Those robes Snake was wearing in the coffin belonged to him all along

 

[Dandy Crocodile]

OH GUYS.
Something really cool popped on my head right now.

SNAKE = LEFT or other DELTA

Think about it. Closed eyes since they have that creepy purple colour, plus shaved hair!
If Delta had hair, everyone would say: AHA!
Then you'd say, OK, but what about the age? And I say, that's just like transported PHI.

Welcome aboard ZE4 tinfoil hype train. CHOO CHOO

EDIT: That would explain Free the Soul robe as well. But does not explain Dio and stuff.

Snake has a prosthetic arm. Delta didn't seem to.

 

[Soulflarz]

re: snake being brother

fairly certain there was an arguable setup for it. They kind of ruined the opportunity with ZE3.

Finally, that "Final Decision" was fucking bullshit. The characters have been doing that literally the entire game, the only reason why it's a Decision Game now is because what it is out in the open, but by that point it's been out in the open for a while because even if the player hasn't figured it out themselves by that, Team C's route more or less outright explains it and revolves around it. How the fuck is doing exactly what we've been doing the entire game a hard decision by that point? I actually expected there to be some sort of twist where staying would be the good end and leaving would be the bad, but nope. It is exactly what it says on the tin.

Yes. Honestly, the entire game has been 'flipping around to save lives in the end so that one true Junpei can live (also, all dead Junpeis kinda just flip around too. To die in one scene isn't really death since he'll just warp farther along, it's a moot point)