I'm assuming to get rid of a possible reason for them to stay. Also he's an ass.
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[SPOILERS] Zero Time Dilemma Spoiler Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Yasumi
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I'm assuming to get rid of a possible reason for them to stay. Also he's an ass.
Aaronrules380
Member
Actually there are several subtle hints about Delta's existence throught Q-team's story
Indeed. Two red alerts for me already rose up when Q was the only character in the Status screen to not be represented by a doll even though he had an avatar in the Study, while Q is an actual input you can make in the "Who Killed Mira?" Decision that Eric responds to with laughable disregard claiming it's "impossible", even though you can't input that in the face off section.
While everything about him isn't as meticulously explained as previous games I don't mind it. This game is a bit less wordy than previous ones. I imagine they couldn't fit every single explanation in the game due to some restraints but there's still a lot of subtle hints here and I don't think most of this stuff was simply made up as they went along. It's sort of clear from Uchi's very coy answer about Sigma and Phi's relationship back during VLR's Answers release that he clearly planned on them to likely be related by blood, and since that is such an integral part about the game's main twist I imagine this was his idea for the endgame all along.
WaterAstro
Member
Soooooooo is there more after Delta gives you the choice to kill him in the CQD End 2?
There are some new files for you to read.
Yes, but not enough to make it a noncontrivance
SoulUnison
Banned
I just want to go on the record and say that I, for the most part, hated ZTD's escape rooms.
999's were intriguing.
VLR had a couple misses but were enjoyable.
ZTD's Escapes are moon logic checklists and "click everything until something's different" simulators.
999's were intriguing.
VLR had a couple misses but were enjoyable.
ZTD's Escapes are moon logic checklists and "click everything until something's different" simulators.
WaterAstro
Member
By going back in time and making young Mira not kill anyone they are creating a timeline where nothing in the series will happen...
And one of the Miras will still be a criminal that escaped the jail, because the trasporter is a clone machine.
The issue isn't so much the hints rather than how contrived the twist feels.
In order to keep Delta hidden from the player, the game had to contort itself to a ridiculous degree.
First there's the camera angles and the scenes, which somehow always kept him out of our sight. Maybe Team Q are real assholes, always parking the old dude in a corner of the room? The lobby scenes where they're all sitting at the counter comes to mind.
Then there's the characters who almost never acknowledge his presence. Team Q never complains having to push him around, nobody express how fucked up it is to stick a paralysed dude in a game of life and death or wonders how Team Q will take care of him. It's especially egregious in the library : they fear the blast from the grenade launcher might be too dangerous, so they take refuge upstairs, but nobody even ask how they'll get him there.
It was one thing to somehow have Sigma never touch his face or see his reflection in VLR, but having NINE characters NEVER mention a 10th dude, especially one in such a predicament? That's really hard to swallow.
Aaronrules380
Member
Actually, at one point they mention how its fucked up to kill Q because "He couldn't even see or hear" which was honestly confusing until the twist
How did Q vote in the execution decision?
The characters mention that the leader should decide, and Eric says they have to use force... So I assume they forced his hand to touch the screen?
They seem to be surprised by what Q decided to vote, however... They think Q can't hear or see, so how did they communicate with him?
The characters mention that the leader should decide, and Eric says they have to use force... So I assume they forced his hand to touch the screen?
They seem to be surprised by what Q decided to vote, however... They think Q can't hear or see, so how did they communicate with him?
StarStabbedMoon
Member
yea but really, it's only 3 people, team q, that should be acknowledging delta, and they're basically just 2 assholes and a robot. as for the other teams, i think they do mention feeling sorry for delta and team q, and i think they even mention a handicap at some point. as for sean, once characters meet him and realize there's a 10th person (which for teams c and d is very very late game) they seem dumbfounded by his existence. eric meanwhile is suspicious of sean the entire game, which we assumed was just him being an asshole (he still is), but makes alot more sense given that sean is completely unaccounted for in the game. mira just doesn't give a shit because she's too busy planning her next kill or something. so i think that explains most of it.
i do agree that they should have referenced it more, but to me that's more a matter of building up to the reveal rather than being realistic.
There's this time yes, but it's said in an incredibly roundabout way. And more importantly, it's one of the very few cases of people talking about him.
In comparison, VLR had a lot more foreshadowing regarding Sigma's appearance (and in general), and it was distilled by separate characters throughout the whole game.
You could argue that it had too much, but I'd rather have a twist attentive players can unveil easily than "pans camera right : surprise, there was another dude".
To be fair, some of the hints were pretty clever, like characters shooting one too many times, but they are too few of them.
Even if Q Team were separated from the others, I'd think the nicer characters like Carlos or Diana would bring it up. And Eric/Mira being assholes, I'd expect them to bitch about it a bit more.
There's also the issue of promotional materials outright lying by calling Sean "Q".
But yeah, in the end it's a matter of build up.
SoulUnison
Banned
Oh yeah, was Reverie Syndrome supposed to be a huge Mira red herring?
The Q-Team ending in the Library where you learn Mira's past was the first "real" ending I got, and I assumed that Mira was a Reverie Syndrome sufferer. She talks about being unable to experience emotions, and all you'd heard about Reverie Syndrome up to that point was that the afflicted "ignore certain stimulus."
The Q-Team ending in the Library where you learn Mira's past was the first "real" ending I got, and I assumed that Mira was a Reverie Syndrome sufferer. She talks about being unable to experience emotions, and all you'd heard about Reverie Syndrome up to that point was that the afflicted "ignore certain stimulus."
Yeah, that really bothered me. They could've called him Mysterious Boy or something in the promotional materials...
blankempathy
Member
Don't they foreshadow the mind hacking by having characters freak out after making bad choices? Like with the vote for example. Heck it even gets brought up by Akane when she goes off about the alien hand syndrome when Carlos has no idea why he voted the wrong way. Also I think thats kind of the point of Delta's character. While I have no idea what is 100% real or just an act he clearly wants them to create a better future. His cocky jerk nature fuels their resolve to beat him. The resolve they'll need to stop the future terrorist attack. I do think its an act for the simple fact that he allows himself to be judged at the end of the game. He clearly understands that what he did is wrong but at the same time he may have created a better word. At the end of the day the question is, does the end justify the means?
It's SHIFTing uncontrollably, and Maria ends up diagnosed and trained to cure it postgame.
I hadn't thought of that, it makes sense.
The issue is that Sigma goes through the exact same thing in VLR. Some of the choices in the AB game would result in people calling him out on his vote and him thinking he had no idea why he did it.
blankempathy
Member
Its been a while since I've played VLR but the details are less clear to me but they made it a big enough deal in this game that it stood out enough to me to connect to the possibility that Delta may have directly been influencing them. After all we know he was watching them.
Okay, so I'm going to take the road I usually take with otome games. I will sum up my feelings about each character in a gif. If I feel the need to say more/add another gif, I'll do so.
C-TEAM
Carlos:
No lie, I thought he was gonna be this kind of character on first glance:
Junpei:
Akane:
Q-Team
Sean:
Eric:
Mira:
The Q-Team as a whole was interesting to me, but Mira stuck out. At the start, I figured. "Oh hey, it's the sarcastic chick with the big tits, how original." Cue me sitting there, hand over my mouth, eyes big as saucers when her reveal dropped.
D-Team
Diana:
Sigma:
Sigma is an old man that needs rest. He's been through a lot, moreso than most of the other characters. At the end, he was probably just like this:
Phi:
Lest we forget...
Zero/Delta/Brother:
Was he a dick? Yes. But there's also a complexity to him, as he himself stated, that made him an intriguing, memorable villain.
This is my GOTY for 2016. Nothing can best this.
C-TEAM
Carlos:
No lie, I thought he was gonna be this kind of character on first glance:
By the end of the game, he turned out to be a guy who just wanted to do good and save everyone, and he just kept fucking up. He got put through the wringer, and I'm glad he got to give Zero his last rites.
Junpei:
Yes, he was broody as fuck in the start, but I figured shit went down to get him to that point. He didn't become Tenmyouji overnight, after all. I did go 'what the hell, Jumpy?' a couple of times, namely at the first vote to eliminate a team, but overall, I was gad to see old Junpei come through as paths progressed.
Akane:
She was the most stable girl in the game (when Junpei wasn't being killed). When it came down to brass tacks, she did what was needed to get shit done. This includes the end when she made Junpei forget about her. Ice cold. Plus, in the end, she and Junpei finally got their happy ending, so that made me happy. If anyone deserves it, it's those two.
Q-Team
Sean:
He never asked for any of the shit he went through. I wanted to hug him so many times.
Eric:
Mira:
The Q-Team as a whole was interesting to me, but Mira stuck out. At the start, I figured. "Oh hey, it's the sarcastic chick with the big tits, how original." Cue me sitting there, hand over my mouth, eyes big as saucers when her reveal dropped.
D-Team
Diana:
I get the feeling Zero/Delta made her the leader of this squad specifically to die at her hand later on, especially in the ending where he killed Eric, Sean, and Sigma in the computer room. Either way, poor Diana was another character put through the wringer, but came out at least a little stronger in the end. I just wished the game had given the whole team a proper epilogue, dammit.
Sigma:
Sigma is an old man that needs rest. He's been through a lot, moreso than most of the other characters. At the end, he was probably just like this:
I hope he took time off to spend with Diana and Phi.
Phi:
Nuff said. My favorite character in the whole damn series by a clear mile.
Lest we forget...
Zero/Delta/Brother:
Was he a dick? Yes. But there's also a complexity to him, as he himself stated, that made him an intriguing, memorable villain.
This is my GOTY for 2016. Nothing can best this.
Dandy Crocodile
Member
VLR literally has young Sigma on the cover, as well as an entire anime OVA with young Sigma that covers the beginning of the game. This isn't really anything new and it's well worth the lie to preserve the twist.
Also the crash keys twitter that released the ZTD cast before most other promo stuff came out never tweeted a photo of Sean. I think the Famitsu ad might have been the first time he was called Q. Let me check.
I checked the scene I had in mind in VLR. It's a pretty big deal too: it's the one where you betray Phi, which leads to the revelation that both Sigma and Phi can jump between timelines.
The thing that bothers me about the "Delta was influencing people" idea is that it's not made clear how he does it, since the game doesn't explain the extent of his powers. It might be even more problematic in the case of the timelines where he dies, since he shouldn't be able to interact with the leaders without shifting abilities.
The cover is fine for me, since it's technically correct. Sigma did look like that in the prologue. I concede the OVA was bullshit though.
Young Sigma in the cover isn't really a problem. We do see young Sigma in the game (when he is kidnapped). Or maybe it is Kyle on the cover?
As for the anime OVA... well, this one is problematic. But it immediately is clear that not everything happens in the game as it does in the OVA (the Sigma kidnapping scene is completely different).
The Premium booklet included in the Steam version calls the boy Q. There's even a quote by Uchikoshi there calling him that.
Megabyte117
Member
Okay, so I'm going to take the road I usually take with otome games. I will sum up my feelings about each character in a gif. If I feel the need to say more/add another gif, I'll do so.
C-TEAM
Carlos:
No lie, I thought he was gonna be this kind of character on first glance:
By the end of the game, he turned out to be a guy who just wanted to do good and save everyone, and he just kept fucking up. He got put through the wringer, and I'm glad he got to give Zero his last rites.
Junpei:
Yes, he was broody as fuck in the start, but I figured shit went down to get him to that point. He didn't become Tenmyouji overnight, after all. I did go 'what the hell, Jumpy?' a couple of times, namely at the first vote to eliminate a team, but overall, I was gad to see old Junpei come through as paths progressed.
Akane:
She was the most stable girl in the game (when Junpei wasn't being killed). When it came down to brass tacks, she did what was needed to get shit done. This includes the end when she made Junpei forget about her. Ice cold. Plus, in the end, she and Junpei finally got their happy ending, so that made me happy. If anyone deserves it, it's those two.
Q-Team
Sean:
He never asked for any of the shit he went through. I wanted to hug him so many times.
Eric:
Mira:
The Q-Team as a whole was interesting to me, but Mira stuck out. At the start, I figured. "Oh hey, it's the sarcastic chick with the big tits, how original." Cue me sitting there, hand over my mouth, eyes big as saucers when her reveal dropped.
D-Team
Diana:
I get the feeling Zero/Delta made her the leader of this squad specifically to die at her hand later on, especially in the ending where he killed Eric, Sean, and Sigma in the computer room. Either way, poor Diana was another character put through the wringer, but came out at least a little stronger in the end. I just wished the game had given the whole team a proper epilogue, dammit.
Sigma:
Sigma is an old man that needs rest. He's been through a lot, moreso than most of the other characters. At the end, he was probably just like this:
I hope he took time off to spend with Diana and Phi.
Phi:
Nuff said. My favorite character in the whole damn series by a clear mile.
Lest we forget...
Zero/Delta/Brother:
Was he a dick? Yes. But there's also a complexity to him, as he himself stated, that made him an intriguing, memorable villain.
This is my GOTY for 2016. Nothing can best this.
Oh my, I love the gifs you chose and your descriptions. I felt the exact same about Team D. They were my favorites by far - unlike the other teams none of them intentionally killed one another and generally had the healthiest chemistry/interactions between them. I just wish they had epilogue files too, since I'd like to know how the three of them moved on after that last ending.
After sleeping on it, I think I still feel very positive about the game, but the ending could've used a little something more. It felt almost abrupt, and the resolution to finding the religious fanatic is that they're motivated was rather cheesy. Still, the game ran me through an incredible gamut of emotions that I haven't experienced with any other game so far this year. Has to be a GOTY contender for me as well.
blankempathy
Member
But from what I remember he only influences the decisions when he's alive. Basically the initial vote and if everyone survives that then the button in the decontamination room. After that "bad" choices are directly made by characters on their own. Even in the ab game if Carlos picks betray he does it because junpei picked betray in another time line. I can't explain vlr but in this game they certainly make it a point that Diana and Carlos aren't willfully choosing to kill the others during those instances.
WaterAstro
Member
Sortof. More disappointing that they all remember every history, especially the ones where they learn about Mira being the serial killer, and it didn't even seem like it was a thing in the ending until that note.
It's especially strange that Delta hinted at Mira being the indirect killer of Akane's father, and nothing came about that.
blankempathy
Member
Lol watching the scene before the vote and I just realize that Eric has a beer and there are two glasses on the bar. One a bit further away and not in front of anyone. One is for Mira and since Sean can't drink the second one is obviously for delta. I also like the foreshadowing that Sean isn't human because he lifts up the force quit box easily and the others couldn't budge it.
That may be true. Checking the timeline, the "Execute Q Team" branch is the one with : The Antidote Is?, Gun vs Incinerator, Gift from Gab (Antidote 2), AB Game, The Three Dice, Find the Mask and Transporter. I don't think there's a case of a character making a terrible choice against common sense in this timeline (except the Gift from Gab thing maybe)
But then again, I don't recall there being any difference between the way these choices are presented and those in other timelines. They should have hinted that things were a little different in these specific instances, if that was really the case.
(About VLR, there's a case to be made about Sigma simply being nudged in directions by the player. He makes bad decisions because you want to see the results of these decisions.)
blankempathy
Member
I think it's just the character reactions that are the biggest hints. Stuff like Diana saying how she's going to stick to the voting plan and then suddenly having no clue why she voted to betray. It really stuck out to me because of how she completely contradicted herself. Like it wasn't just an act to trick sigma or phi. On another note someone should make a list of all the instances the game hints at delta being there. Stuff like the glass I mentioned above or how Eric looks directly into the camera and appears to be talking to gab. He says "what do you think old man?" And then Mira says "he's not going to answer you". Happens right after you vote not to inject radical 6.
Yes.The general consensus between me and my fiancee:
- Team D is the best
- Team Q needs help
- Team C could easily be Team Leeroy Jenkins.
As for the ending... I liked it. I mean, this is Zero Escape; not everything is gonna be tied neatly in a little bow at the end.
blankempathy
Member
It does a better job then a lot of games that become a series. The only real huge hole for me is kyle. When you think about it though after what we know now the only way I think they could written him in was to send him back in time via the transporter so he'd have a body to shift to. To be honest I didn't really miss him and felt like the story was still solid without that plot device in place. Is it perfect? No but I still think it finished the trilogy out strong.
This.
One point isn't the main defense though, it should have been mentioned a dozen times.
It's like the wall of contrivances for the snail argument to work >_>
ZTD had better puzzles than 999. I probably enjoyed VLR's puzzles the most because I felt they were the hardest overall, and having to sometimes think outside the box for the Gold File codes. However, VLR's hardest puzzle room, Q Room, felt like trial and error, whereas ZTD's hardest puzzle room, the Transporter Room, was hard based on what method of logic you approached the 13 cards from. ZTD's puzzles could have been my favorite despite being easier than VLR's, but VLR never had repeating puzzles like the X-Puzzles from ZTD which irked me a bit.
It's interesting how many people found the Transporter Room the hardest. Wondering how many of them didn't realize the game gave a file that let you sort all the symbols easily.
Only room I got seriously stuck in was the Rec Room. I don't know why, but my brain always shut down in these rooms. Managed to botch the dice subtraction and wonder what the hell I was doing wrong. Didn't realize I had to hammer the chess board. Got confused about the SPIN thing. Shameful stuff.
(Ironically the only thing I found relatively easy was the heart tangram.)
TheGeniusArcana
Member
This game was a Zero Escape 3/10
bout time you got into here
You could easily sort out the 13 cards by simply using the multiplication file and finding out the Moon card is 2 and work from there, but I suspect most people, myself included, battled all the cards to try and figure out their values. I was also having trouble in the Rec Room, but I'd say it was only because I did a super long 14-hour marathon and it was before I got my second or third wind. Took me a while to realize I could still use the hook for something other than the fireplace to find the hammer.
Honestly though, now that I think about it more I simply wish ZTD had Gold File solutions in the puzzle rooms, but their exclusion might have been a good thing since every VLR puzzle always ended up with you in front of a safe to get a key to get out, and where ZTD felt a bit less complex than VLR it made up for in variety (apart from the X-puzzles).
TheGeniusArcana
Member
The Delta Q twist is kind of cool, but it's extremely artificial in nature sometimes and would be better if pre release stuff didn't straight up LIE to us about Sean not being Q. Phi being Sigma and Diana's child was so obvious that I felt like my intelligence was being insulted over and over. The game's tenancy to repeatedly present the same plot twists as if they were new was also obnoxious. (I didn't give a shit about Sean being a robot the first time and I certainly didn't give a shit about it the 4th time.) This game is just so baffling to me in every area.
Shouta
Member
Finished. I was expecting a bit crazier of an ending after what happened with VLR. I guess it's an optimistic and open-ended ending, well sorta, but I didn't really think it would basically just be the same objective from VLR but a whole lot less mind-bending time fuckery.
Aside from the ending, I really enjoyed it though. All the that was going on was pretty gripping. The fragments were a good idea and I liked how they were used though I think they could have been a bit more thorough with clues across them all like they were with VLR.
On the individual teams:
Team C -
- Carlos - He sort of reminds me of a male version of Diana in that he's extremely likable and only really wants to help folks out. Him being paired with Junpei and Akane worked well partially because he's basically old Junpei with a slightly different back story. So having him around kept the other two from dragging their entire team down possibly, lol.
- Junpei - Definitely was hard to digest Junpei at first but then I remembered the stuff that happened to him from telling us in VLR and the retelling in this. I definitely sympathized with him in that respect. Glad to see that he softened throughout the course of the game as he interacted with Akane again.
- Akane - It was nice seeing her like how she was in 999 but the yandere/psycho parts seemed a bit much. I really wished they had addressed the distance between her and Junpei a bit more directly. They kind of do it in this but they don't go directly at it which is a sort of a shame.
Team Q -
- "Q" Sean - Not much of a real personality but I did like that he played a vehicle for exposition and to discuss some topics that the other groups couldn't. I was not expecting the robot reveal at all. I was fully thinking it was actually a girl under there and that it was a younger Phi or something, lol
- Eric - Why was he even in this game? He has the tragic past, sure but he spent most of the game annoying and really hard to sympathize with. I feel bad that everything that fucked up in his life was because of Mira and that snail though. =/
- Mira - I thought we'd get a retread of the sexy char but maaaaaaan, I was not expecting what happened with her. That stand-off and the subsequent revelation was mindblowing and gruesome.
Team D - Stars of the show
- Diana - Every bit as awesome as Luna was. Definitely the winner of the characters in this game. You can definitely see why Sigma fell for her. She's so strong too after having to deal with all that shit. ;_;
- Sigma - More or less the same as VLR, solid character. Not too much to say about him individually as I felt Team D was best because of their interactions as a group.
- Phi - Snarky and endearing as ever. The game really puts a lot more meaning behind the interactions she and Sigma has in VLR. Thanks to the added detail, namely her eyebrows, I realized pretty early that she was probably Sigma and Diana's daughter. Got confirmed with with the hair color comment.
I think the highlights of the game are the 3-way stand off and the D-End 2 with Sigma and Diana. The latter, in particular, was so good. That sort of thing is really hard to nail in media but they got it just perfect. A lot of emotion in those scenes and it just felt powerful. Oh, and the Force Quit: D cutscene right after you enter the password got me so hard. ;_;
The game definitely leaves a lot of things on the table though. Kyle was a big one but honestly, I think that Gab was probably Kyle. Gab knew exactly what to do and when to do it to facilitate everything that was going on. It was way more than a regular dog seeing as the intervals between things that went on were like 2 hours. It'd also explain why he so intently listened to Sigma whenever he vented to him (though I guess dogs do that anyway) and why Delta shot him at the end. Just a theory though, obviously.
On Delta, I feel like he was a good concept but he comes off as more confusing than menacing or interesting. His reasons for doing what he did make sense but it feels like a pile-up more than anything really planned, I guess? His first reason for doing everything setting up a causal loop to bring him into existence was pretty wild but the other stuff was kinda shaky.
Post-Pay off stuff - Junpei and Akane getting married was good and they were still trying to save the world from nuclear disaster. Carlos getting to see his sister up and well was great. Mira, Eric, and Sean doing that was totally not earned. Way silly and stupid. Also, what's up with no post-payoff info for Diana, Sigma, and Phi? Those 3 are together finally so I wanted to see something about it. All we got was the post-apocalypse notes version where it's goddamn sad. >=|
Aside from the ending, I really enjoyed it though. All the that was going on was pretty gripping. The fragments were a good idea and I liked how they were used though I think they could have been a bit more thorough with clues across them all like they were with VLR.
On the individual teams:
Team C -
- Carlos - He sort of reminds me of a male version of Diana in that he's extremely likable and only really wants to help folks out. Him being paired with Junpei and Akane worked well partially because he's basically old Junpei with a slightly different back story. So having him around kept the other two from dragging their entire team down possibly, lol.
- Junpei - Definitely was hard to digest Junpei at first but then I remembered the stuff that happened to him from telling us in VLR and the retelling in this. I definitely sympathized with him in that respect. Glad to see that he softened throughout the course of the game as he interacted with Akane again.
- Akane - It was nice seeing her like how she was in 999 but the yandere/psycho parts seemed a bit much. I really wished they had addressed the distance between her and Junpei a bit more directly. They kind of do it in this but they don't go directly at it which is a sort of a shame.
Team Q -
- "Q" Sean - Not much of a real personality but I did like that he played a vehicle for exposition and to discuss some topics that the other groups couldn't. I was not expecting the robot reveal at all. I was fully thinking it was actually a girl under there and that it was a younger Phi or something, lol
- Eric - Why was he even in this game? He has the tragic past, sure but he spent most of the game annoying and really hard to sympathize with. I feel bad that everything that fucked up in his life was because of Mira and that snail though. =/
- Mira - I thought we'd get a retread of the sexy char but maaaaaaan, I was not expecting what happened with her. That stand-off and the subsequent revelation was mindblowing and gruesome.
Team D - Stars of the show
- Diana - Every bit as awesome as Luna was. Definitely the winner of the characters in this game. You can definitely see why Sigma fell for her. She's so strong too after having to deal with all that shit. ;_;
- Sigma - More or less the same as VLR, solid character. Not too much to say about him individually as I felt Team D was best because of their interactions as a group.
- Phi - Snarky and endearing as ever. The game really puts a lot more meaning behind the interactions she and Sigma has in VLR. Thanks to the added detail, namely her eyebrows, I realized pretty early that she was probably Sigma and Diana's daughter. Got confirmed with with the hair color comment.
I think the highlights of the game are the 3-way stand off and the D-End 2 with Sigma and Diana. The latter, in particular, was so good. That sort of thing is really hard to nail in media but they got it just perfect. A lot of emotion in those scenes and it just felt powerful. Oh, and the Force Quit: D cutscene right after you enter the password got me so hard. ;_;
The game definitely leaves a lot of things on the table though. Kyle was a big one but honestly, I think that Gab was probably Kyle. Gab knew exactly what to do and when to do it to facilitate everything that was going on. It was way more than a regular dog seeing as the intervals between things that went on were like 2 hours. It'd also explain why he so intently listened to Sigma whenever he vented to him (though I guess dogs do that anyway) and why Delta shot him at the end. Just a theory though, obviously.
On Delta, I feel like he was a good concept but he comes off as more confusing than menacing or interesting. His reasons for doing what he did make sense but it feels like a pile-up more than anything really planned, I guess? His first reason for doing everything setting up a causal loop to bring him into existence was pretty wild but the other stuff was kinda shaky.
Post-Pay off stuff - Junpei and Akane getting married was good and they were still trying to save the world from nuclear disaster. Carlos getting to see his sister up and well was great. Mira, Eric, and Sean doing that was totally not earned. Way silly and stupid. Also, what's up with no post-payoff info for Diana, Sigma, and Phi? Those 3 are together finally so I wanted to see something about it. All we got was the post-apocalypse notes version where it's goddamn sad. >=|
Finally finished. I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I will say that in a sense I was right and wrong with my expectations.
My ultimate prediction was that the third and final game would be an attempt to cancel out all Nonary Games in the first place by somehow going back to the first few Nonary Games, thus cancelling the need for Akane's Nonary game, thus cancelling the need for the AB game in 2074. I think this would've worked consistently because both Old!Sigma and Phi continue to exist even in timelines where the apocolypse is averted. In any event I was right in that the ultimate ending was the cancel out the game entirely, but it was only restricted to this Decision game and thus in a sense not as satisfying for me.
The fucking artistry though of pulling together so many connections into one coherent package. The only thing I'm iffy on at the moment is Q/Delta; I'll have to go back and look at the evidence for his existance beforehand because he seriously just pops out of nowhere. Still a better twist than Old!Sigma in VLR.
Moments I literally said "Uchikoshi you SON OF A BITCH": the revelation that the quarter was all the same + the holo walls, the times on all the watches being completely fucked (gave me the exact same sensation as in 999 when all my assumptions were suddenly tossed to one side), the moment I realised where the Stranded timeline was going, the moment I realised which one caused the Radical-6 future, Delta's reveal, Q's reveal, when I realised what Delta's final decision game was, and the game cutting to credits after Carlos takes the gun.
Fuck. What a game. Not riding as high on it as I was 999, but fuck man.
/edit favourite scene in the game by far was Phi, Diana, and Sigma getting the memories back after opening the Quit Box. Holy shit.
I think Uchikoshi really needed a psychopath character who would do irrational things (well, not completely irrational from his POV, but irrational to the player). It feels like Eric spent 60% of the game toting a shotgun at people and screaming
My ultimate prediction was that the third and final game would be an attempt to cancel out all Nonary Games in the first place by somehow going back to the first few Nonary Games, thus cancelling the need for Akane's Nonary game, thus cancelling the need for the AB game in 2074. I think this would've worked consistently because both Old!Sigma and Phi continue to exist even in timelines where the apocolypse is averted. In any event I was right in that the ultimate ending was the cancel out the game entirely, but it was only restricted to this Decision game and thus in a sense not as satisfying for me.
The fucking artistry though of pulling together so many connections into one coherent package. The only thing I'm iffy on at the moment is Q/Delta; I'll have to go back and look at the evidence for his existance beforehand because he seriously just pops out of nowhere. Still a better twist than Old!Sigma in VLR.
Moments I literally said "Uchikoshi you SON OF A BITCH": the revelation that the quarter was all the same + the holo walls, the times on all the watches being completely fucked (gave me the exact same sensation as in 999 when all my assumptions were suddenly tossed to one side), the moment I realised where the Stranded timeline was going, the moment I realised which one caused the Radical-6 future, Delta's reveal, Q's reveal, when I realised what Delta's final decision game was, and the game cutting to credits after Carlos takes the gun.
Fuck. What a game. Not riding as high on it as I was 999, but fuck man.
/edit favourite scene in the game by far was Phi, Diana, and Sigma getting the memories back after opening the Quit Box. Holy shit.
I think Uchikoshi really needed a psychopath character who would do irrational things (well, not completely irrational from his POV, but irrational to the player). It feels like Eric spent 60% of the game toting a shotgun at people and screaming
nckillthegrimace
Member
I totally called the teams not experiencing things at the same time.
...totally did not call getting played by bootleg Wesker.
...totally did not call getting played by bootleg Wesker.
Q-Team were definitely the weakest new characters with their motivations/purposes simply explained by their X-Passes: EYE (SEAN), FOOL (ERIC), KILL (MIRA). Which is a shame considering how fully fleshed out all the new characters (and old) were in VLR.
Definitely really liked Carlos as well. One of two of the new character introduced in ZTD that I liked. (I wouldn't count Gab as a "character", but still like him as well)
Absolutely agree with this, D-End 2 reveal was the best twist of the game. D-End 1 got me the most if only because of the overwhelming sense of dread knowing the coming (almost) half a decade of heartbreaking events about to unfold.
Diana was definitely my favorite character. Continuing with my line of thought about VLR having overall better portrayed new characters and a majority of ZTD's character exposition being flimsy, Diana was one of the exceptions where she was opposite of Luna and had much more depth (probably because she was an actual human).
This is interesting. However Gab is an old dog, so he would have to SHIFT to someone else to keep living with Sigma in the real ending. Maybe he SHIFTed out when Delta killed the dog?
I hope we get a new Q&A with Uchikoshi.
So what I thought for sure was going to happen regarding Sean was when Zero started talking about an operator for a Quantum computer was that this was Uchikoshi slipping the player into the story. The quantum computer runs all simulations simultaneously and operates in every single timeline; a trained operator would be able to jump between timelines and influence the decision. Combined with the mindhack power (to make people even for a split second do what he wants) I thought for sure Delta was going to turn out to somehow be the player. I didn't think it through completely but... I was so sure it was leading up to that that the truth kinda deflated me a bit.
/editshit! Dio/Left is a Brother clone, isn't he...? Lmao, I guess he's Phi's half-clone brother or some shit... man... no, wait. scratch that I forgot Delta drops and offhand mention of it
/edit
Just beat it!
I'm still not sure how to process everything. I think I'm a little disappointed since I had high exceptions for the ending to be even crazier but also show an actual resolved ending. I still loved this game and there's a lot of great moments including the moments that
I loved all of the characters except for Eric. Such an awful and annoying character and the whole him and
I just need some time to decide how I feel about this kind of ending.
I'm still not sure how to process everything. I think I'm a little disappointed since I had high exceptions for the ending to be even crazier but also show an actual resolved ending. I still loved this game and there's a lot of great moments including the moments that
kind of hinted at Q but overall it feels kind of like an open ended ending which I really didn't want with the final game in the series.
I loved all of the characters except for Eric. Such an awful and annoying character and the whole him and
Mira end up together at the end was dumb.
TheGeniusArcana
Member
Dio/Left was cloned from Delta's step brother who was also named Left.