Yup just think of all that good will they pissed away now. XV was supposed to be the return to form for Final Fantasy. Instead millions paid full price for a game they later found out wasn't even finished and now never will be.
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[Square Enix after FFXV] The elephant in the room must be addressed.
- Thread starter Enygger_Tzu
- Start date
Yup just think of all that good will they pissed away now. XV was supposed to be the return to form for Final Fantasy. Instead millions paid full price for a game they later found out wasn't even finished and now never will be.
Enygger_Tzu
Banned
I hear that ever since FFX-2 came around.....
royox
Member
How so? At least at launch the open world was on rails if you wanted to use the car, The "open" world is filled by senseless invisible walls to force you to go around 3km instead of jumping over some stupid rocks. Gosh Noctis can literally teleport himself around with his magic but can't jump over a 2m tall fence even using a chocobo. Also the world is beautyful indeed...but it's an empty void. The enemies and most of the fauna pop in from out of the screen, there's nothing to do. the sidequests are all "go to X, get Y, go back to the starting point" or Hunts.
After playing games like Xenoblade Chronicles X (and 2) and The Witcher 3 FFXV's open world is literally shit. A beautyful shit but still a shit.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
The biggest issue I had with both FFXIII and FFXV is they both made poor job making linear and open world design. If you look at DQXI, the game is linear JRPG but it has nice open areas and different cites for you to explore but its not crazy big open world to make the exploration pain in the ass. It wouldn't be such a bad idea for SE to take some note from DQ games for next mainline FF.
TheDuskwalker
Member
No better way to fix a series than going back to how it was created.
Sorta same thing with Resident Evil 8. Yeah we get these remakes, but that just means they are going to push back the release date of the next sequential game in the series to early to mid 2020's.
Enygger_Tzu
Banned
Yep, sadly, except for Episode Ardyn.
Enygger_Tzu
Banned
Why not with Kingdom Hearts as well? I don't think we know the model of this game, yet.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
Maybe they can put XVI on hold and focus on a good FFV and FFVI remake s?
HaveButOneLife
Banned
I'd say that FFXV is among those. It's not just the openness, it's the towns and what you can actually DO in the world.
shooter_mcgavin
Neo Member
Maybe give it to a Western Developer? It might sound "blasphemous" but remember how Metroid Prime basically revived the Metroid franchise.
Enygger_Tzu
Banned
Welcome to Final Call of Duty: Battle Royal edition.
Fuz
Banned
Actually, Dissidia on mobile is pretty good.
royox
Member
FFXV has 1 city with almost 0 interaction and 0 interesting sidequests (all of them are "go to X, get Y and come back here" for the merchants so they can sell that thing BACK to you), 1 half city filled by loading screens and the same gas station copy-pasted all around an empty world and the only thing you can do in that world is killing enemies when they pop up at random.
No, it's not among those by far. Xenoblade games for example have a LOT of exploration, pathfinding, interactions with loads and loads of NPC, lots of towns/cities and interesting sidequests. What sidequest has FFXV? Feed the cat? Find X weapon for the weaponsmith so he can sell it to you? "Oh that behemoth hunt" yeah,...I wish there were more quest like that, guess the budget was all used on that quest.
Dontero
Banned
Here is elephant in the room most of press and die hard fans ignored:
It was Early Access Final Fantasy with about 15-17 hours story that could be described simply as clusterfuck AND THEN they dared to sell pieces of DLC that provided nothing of value to main game that no one asked about.
FFXV got same treatment as FFXIII. IT was supposed to be money maker for clothes, anime, food, toys and other garbage but they forgot to make game.
Only surprising part here is that they axed it now instead of axing it in development.
It was Early Access Final Fantasy with about 15-17 hours story that could be described simply as clusterfuck AND THEN they dared to sell pieces of DLC that provided nothing of value to main game that no one asked about.
FFXV got same treatment as FFXIII. IT was supposed to be money maker for clothes, anime, food, toys and other garbage but they forgot to make game.
Only surprising part here is that they axed it now instead of axing it in development.
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IpsoFacto
Member
Well, the announcement was almost certainly a shocker and a few issues are lingering even as we speak. It's bad enough that people who purchased the season pass kinda wasted their money.
I agree that Final Fantasy XV is likely not a contender for JRPG of the year. It has it's fair share of issues, but and this is just my opinion, there's nothing here that would turn away gamers in a manner Final Fantasy XIII did. Final Fantasy XIII did more damage to the brand than FF XV ever could, even at it's lowest points.
Now from the get-go it was clear that FF XV took a page from Final Fantasy XIII-2, in which they sold you half a game and the rest is DLC to get the complete experience. And only recently we've been able to switch characters, which was great. But... that's clearly not a good strategy in the long run.
I am surprised because all the talk about episodes made me think that Final Fantasy XV was sucessful for the company. Turns out it wasn't. And sad to say SE has been a bit lacking this year. The flack they caught with Chrono Trigger's PC port was also bad for corporate.
I hope Dragon Quest XI does well, I'm rooting for SE's methaphorical stepson.
But moving on, Kindgom Hearts 3 is still WIP and so far it's the biggest title they've got. Now Final Fantasy 7 remake is the big question mark... I don't know what to make at this point. If they are freeing up resources to speed up this project, so much the better.
I agree that Final Fantasy XV is likely not a contender for JRPG of the year. It has it's fair share of issues, but and this is just my opinion, there's nothing here that would turn away gamers in a manner Final Fantasy XIII did. Final Fantasy XIII did more damage to the brand than FF XV ever could, even at it's lowest points.
Now from the get-go it was clear that FF XV took a page from Final Fantasy XIII-2, in which they sold you half a game and the rest is DLC to get the complete experience. And only recently we've been able to switch characters, which was great. But... that's clearly not a good strategy in the long run.
I am surprised because all the talk about episodes made me think that Final Fantasy XV was sucessful for the company. Turns out it wasn't. And sad to say SE has been a bit lacking this year. The flack they caught with Chrono Trigger's PC port was also bad for corporate.
I hope Dragon Quest XI does well, I'm rooting for SE's methaphorical stepson.
But moving on, Kindgom Hearts 3 is still WIP and so far it's the biggest title they've got. Now Final Fantasy 7 remake is the big question mark... I don't know what to make at this point. If they are freeing up resources to speed up this project, so much the better.
HaveButOneLife
Banned
What game other than Assassin's Creed has a world as lush as Final Fantasy XV? I'm not saying that the open world is on point with those games, but that it's good enough to stand on its own. As a game in-general, is Xenoblade Chronicles 2 actually better? That's besides the point; I'm sure you could nitpick other open world games just as much, and yet it still has more going for it than most linear games.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I personally enjoyed Xenoblade Chronicles 2 much more. That game has multiple cities you go and each have their own open areas you can explore and honestly felt much more complete game while having fantastic DLC. I personally rather have linear games like DQXI and Xenoblade with open area to explore rather than huge open world like FFXV that pain in the ass to get through.
shooter_mcgavin
Neo Member
It's a nice looking world though one you couldn't do anything with.
But it's not just the physical world its an open world that didn't take consistency or world building into consideration.
Character models are terribly inconsistent with it's core characters looking detailed with a Japanese style while other characters whose models look like they were reused from one of Square Western Developers.
World Building was another issue with the game. The game had very little lore to speak off I had a laundry list of issues at the time but one example I can think off are the accents and facial features. Why do the main characters look Japanese while almost every character they meet in the game look western? Is there a difference with ethnicity between Insomnia and what is outside? Why do our main characters have such flamboyant names like Noctis, Ignis, Gladius, and even Lunafreya whereas other characters have names like "Dan" or "Jared"? Why is there no consistency in the accents of chraracters? Why does one character have a "new york" accent?
Stuff and details like that really hurts the game's World and it's immersion.
royox
Member
XIV's team. The best FF story since X is Heavensward. Never thought I would be on such a feels trip playing an MMO.
Myths
Member
Tbh, I'd rather hold the Scenario Writer and Cutscene Director accountable for aspects like that instead of the Director. It's hard to say how the process and hierarchy is laid out at SE too.
I've yet to play Octopath but I wouldn't mind based on what I've seen. I wonder what FFXVI will be like, I might be the only one but with FFV being at the top of my list I'd love something light-hearted and whimsical like that again. Square acts like they can't break the fourth wall anymore or hurl characters at the screen.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I guessing you haven't played DQXI yet.
Dabaus
Banned
I think with how unreliable square is not only in meeting deadlines but reneging on exclusive deals even after the ink's dry, Sony and Nintendo need to start investing in their own first party Japanese rpg studio. I wouldn't be surprised if sony deliberately avoids making JRPG's so as not to offend square and to keep them in their corner.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
They tried to make their “Final Fantasy killer” with Legend of Dragoon. It didn’t do so great.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
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EDMIX
Member
Agreed and agreed completely. I'm in the same boat, I like his designs and I'm sure FFXV in terms of concept was very much still his game, but I'd argue its delays and struggle was based on him, its final director that recently left deserves more respect as he probably is the only damn reason that game was as good as it was in terms of execution.
I think Nomura had a great concept, bad execution. So I don't think Tabata ruined what FFXV could have been, I think we don't even know JACK about what it REALLY was, simply just what we WANTED it to be. So its 100 hours plus of the of the final real game vs a few trailers of stuff we don't even know if it was even good. So I'm respecting the director on this and saying Tabata pulled their balls out of the fire with that project. They need to let some new blood in and get back to basics.
Silent Chief
Member
Well, I preordered and it's still shrink wrapped.
EDMIX
Member
THANK YOU!
I'm legit tired of hearing people talking about what FFXV could have been in terms of its early trailers. Its just unknown and direspectful to just believe that Tabata came in and made it worse when we don't even know jack about what those early videos are even about. For all we know, FFXIII Versus pretty much is exactly more or less FFXV with a few scenes changed. Lets be honest folks, you seeing the main character eating dinner with that girl wasn't going to make it 10/10, seeing that mech battle in the city (When the final game has MANY of those mind you) wasn't going to really change THAT much. Folks have gotten into the fan fiction area of basically MAKING UP in their minds what THEY wanted the game to be, thus claimed its bad now, as if they even KNEW what it was before in the first place.
Tabata got the game to us the best he could. So to folks crying over the story, the actual writer of the game confirmed the changes made where with his blessing and he stated it didn't change the overall concept of the story. ie it was BAD even before, soooo enough with the whole fan fiction on what people wanted it to be as for all you know, without Tabata you would get basically the same story with a different girl, but garbage gameplay lol
EDMIX
Member
huh?
What deadlines? Square makes up when they release or don't release games, but that isn't relevant in regards to actual sales as people buy games based on playing them, not WHEN they release. FFXV sales alone should show you that.
Sony doesn't do it as why would they need to?
FF is selling the best on PS, DQ moving massive units on PS, Persona, Yakuza, Monster Hunter etc, they have lots of great reasons NOT to do their own as they already have the install base that seeks their system to play that concept.
Look at MS....they are having a hard time. Why? Well look at what they are doing, Halo, Gears...sooooo we just going to ignore Doom, Titanfall, Call Of Duty, Battlefield etc? So MS doesn't need to convince FPS and MP fans to buy XB, they already buy it for that concept, thus THEM focusing on that concept won't bring in more. Its counter productive.
Sony imho made the right move not putting more money in JRPGs.
We are already buying PS by default to play them.... 8 million units sold of FFXV in a few short years means no one really has any reason to be pretending that the publisher is in trouble with that concept. Right now, Square is the publisher to beat in that area. Sales very much show they are. Gravity Rush, The Last Guardian, Bloodborne etc I feel are good enough and even with me liking JRPGs, I don't see the need in Sony to make that in which they already have the most and best of by 3rd party.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Currently waiting for the Switch version to release. Then I shall. Dragon Quest is one of the few things I get to enjoy every now and then.
HaveButOneLife
Banned
I'm sure a lot of people do prefer it, I personally haven't sunk enough time into Xenoblade so far so I can't say for sure. But I'll always prefer more freedom over limitation. What can we do in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 that we can't in Final Fantasy XV?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Better question is what “freedom” FFXV had exactly? Only thing FFXV has giant mass of land but barely city or towns to explore while XC2 has multiple cities and has its own distinct look to them. I mean if you want actual “freedom” in open world then looking for game similar to BotW.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
There is no RPG studio, Wrpg or JRPG, that's more mismanaged and costly that Square.
The credit, look at the credits, so much contract work and outsourcing they didn't even need to do for sometimes small things they could get their own in house to do. I first noticed this with the first FFXIII. It's baffling.
The credit, look at the credits, so much contract work and outsourcing they didn't even need to do for sometimes small things they could get their own in house to do. I first noticed this with the first FFXIII. It's baffling.
HaveButOneLife
Banned
Still the best RPG studio to me.
What I like most about RPG's are leveling up, economies/trading/bartering, side activities, and skilling (i.e. fishing). Give me these things and it's a good RPG in my book. As a game, FFXV stands on its own, and is better than so many games that have been released this generation, just because it's not quite as good as the other games that have been listed doesn't make it a mediocre game, let alone a bad one.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
That exist in almost all RPGs, you don't really need huge empty open world for that. I personally like what DQXI and Xenoblade did, it give open area to explore while having linear progression.
HaveButOneLife
Banned
FFXV did it better than most open world games this generation, IMO. And I would disagree that those things are in "almost all" RPG's, especially nowadays. They practically just call themselves an "RPG" because they have a skill tree and that's it. Breath of the Wild is a good open world game because of the things Nintendo gave you to do in its world, when it actuality it shares the same "huge empty open world" that's not so empty because there are monsters to grind stats. What qualities does BOTW have that would improve FFXV?
Open world > linearity in most games. Some open-ended games with linear progression does it better (in which I consider to be quite a bit different from typical linearity), I would much prefer the premise of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 over any linear wannabe movie, so that's a major plus. In actuality, can/should people really compare FFXV to Xenoblade?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I guess agree to disagree. A game being open world doesn't make automatically better than linear games. I personally didn't like open world in FFXV, it was not fun to explore at all. DQXI does exploration much, much better even tho it's really not open world game. Both Xenoblade and DQXI actually felt like bigger and actually really felt like you are journey through entire world, while FFXV felt like you stuck in one area even tho it much bigger map than DQXI and Xenoblade.
HaveButOneLife
Banned
Xenoblade and DQXI are different because they're not traditional "linear" games, linear games with exploration is something I can get behind, I just disagree with the premise that FFXV is empty.
But linear games that hold your hand like Detroit are games that I can't sink time into due to their vast limitations.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I don't think no one wants see that in JRPG. We saw them try with FFXIII and it did not turn out good. I personally want see SE make mainline FF like DQXI, it would be linear JRPG but has open areas to explore.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
What!!? Both games like NieR Automata, DQXI and Octopath turn out fantastic.
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MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Probably because of the teams working on those games. And probably the only 3 worth mentioning. MaK isn't wrong. Square Enix has been stagnating for a long time.
Piercatore
Member
If somebody miss it. FFIVX, 2019:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I think I pretty much comprehensively debunked this back in post #90 in this thread.
Every project that used Crystal Tools as its tech base suffered massive delays, and as a result the content at launch was in every instance lacking. XIII came out the best technically, but it was far and away the least ambitious design-wise and still is "streamlined" to the point of almost nothing beyond the main story-path.
Versus went into production over a year later than XIII (Nomura was on KH2 til the end on 2005 remember), and was always destined to be released after (as an alt-brand). At which point it ran into the shit-storm of FFXIV v1.0's launch, failed recovery, and all-hands-on-deck complete rebuild, by which time the PS4/One were looming on the horizon and the whole internal technology strategy had shifted onto Luminous.
All credit to Tabata for building a new mainline FF from the leftovers in a few years, personally I think he did a great job, but I think there's a big fucking clue in that when Nomura went onto KH3 the engine chosen was Unreal, rather than any of SE's internal tech.
I'm not arguing this out of any sort of favoritism towards Nomura either, its just a straight reading based on which projects clearly had development issues, what the effect was for SE in general, and the fact that over the same time-frame he accumulated credits on a slew of published (and often well-regarded) titles.