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Feb 20. Believe






Who am i kidding

 

[WickedCobra03]

I can't believe they're blaming the market. Have they even played the games they've been making? I can't imagine sitting through FF13 and its various iterations and not falling asleep.

Basically this. It sucks that they put so much time and effort, and most importantly, money in FFXIII. FFXIII was kind of not great, and then they put out a sequel or whatever XIII-2 and that was a bit better, but so much bad word of mouth from the first couldn't bring the people back. It is not like 10 or 15 years ago where when a square enix game came out, even non-rpg fans would pick the game up without a thought. Heck, I even remember FFX being a huge deal with people that usually only played madden and gta on Playstation.

EDIT: IMO, it was a great decision when they bought Eidos just to kind of prop them up as far as diversifying since their JRPG only direction wasn't going great. I am sure they have not sold a lot of copies of their franchises out of Eidos, but at least they have some decent games on hand as well as some strong IP's with Deus Ex, Hitman, Tomb Raider and even Sleeping Dogs.

 

[Dark Octave]

I saw Absolution (few month old game) in the store a few dollars cheaper than Bloodmoney (7 year old dated game), the other day. How the hell did that happen?

Final Fantasy has become a joke of it's former self with fans and sales.

Sleeping Dogs was great but it will take time for that franchise to catch on and get hot, if ever.

 

[BadWolf]

I really don't want to see them go under, hope the new gen does better for them.

Yes it sucks how FFXIV bombed and they wasted a ton of resources and time remaking it but at the same time version 2.0 is the first time that I've considered delving into an mmo.

 

[InsaneZero]

They're putting a ton of marketing behind Tomb Raider, I'm seeing ads everywhere. My own feeling is that it'll probably do rather well.

However, their insistance of NOT doing a remake of Final Fantasy 7 is baffling. Regardless of how much money it might cost to redo that game, SO many people have fond memories of it that I find it difficult they wouldn't make stupid amounts of cash from it. I've been playing RPGs since Dragon Warrior on the NES, and I remember when FF7 hit, THAT was when the public noticed RPGs. Regardless of the actual quality of the game, nostalgia is a powerful force.

If what they're concerned about is money, and given All the Bravest I can't say they're going for much else, they could fill their bank by just doing a FF7 remake.

I hate what Square has become as much as anyone else. I grew up with their games, and it sucks to see them like this. I can't hold out much hope for their future these days, as they seem almost stubornly trying to kill themselves off, but hey, who knows.

They have so much trouble getting out their new content that they'll need to fix that first before they can even address any fanboy's dream of a Final Fantasy 7 remake. A remake isn't a panacea either, since a high-profile legacy title like Final Fantasy 7 will be scrutinized even more than a new title simply because of the history behind it. There's going to be immense pressure to improve upon the game to today's standards without breaking what isn't broken, and that's such a narrow tightrope that I don't think it'd be worth the effort.

 

[Thabass]

They will continue to the next generation cuz they still have

Too bad Hope does every three seconds...

 

[Takuan]

All bets on Lara and (presumably) FF MMO? I see major restructuring in their future.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Announce KH-HD officially for the west already.

They kinda did with the Jesse McCartney facebook photos, he was apparently voicing scenes from 358/2 days. It was on the TV and a microphone was in the picture.

 

[Seda]

They kinda did with the Jesse McCartney facebook photos, he was apparently voicing scenes from 358/2 days. It was on the TV and a microphone was in the picture.

We know it's coming but I want an official announcement, hopefully with release date :/

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Particularly in Japan, I'd say. I don't see things ending well for any Japanese developer that goes all in on PS4/Durango development in an attempt to compete in the Western AAA market (see: Agni's Philosophy).

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Final Fantasy next gen because I don't think it fits any platform at this point. Might be too Japanese for a PS4/Xbox 3 potential audience and the cinematic-focus makes it seem like a really bad fit for 3DS (and since putting FFXV on the 3DS would probably mean very low sales in NA and Europe). It will be interesting to see if they try to westernize further.

 

[wrowa]

No, I think FFXIV failing would do them permanent damage and force them to seek either a capital injection through a new share issuance or a bail out from Sony or Nintendo.

Why do you think that their future is so bleak? I'm aware that you know more about these things than I do, it's an honest question.

Looking at their earning results of the last years, I see that they've only made a loss once since 2004 with potentially a second yearly loss this year. That does look pretty solid to me. So, what exactly is sinking them? Shouldn't the development costs of FFXIV largely already been accounted for? If it bombs, well, then they'll have lost quite a sum of money, but enough to ruin them?

I don't see it, honestly. I've got the feeling that many of you simply just want to see SE burn. Then again, I doubt that Tomb Raider is going to bomb (it strikes me as a game that's very, very well marketable, even if old fans dislike the new direction -- it releases kinda late, but I think that Tomb Raider has potential for a successful reboot) and I also don't think that FFXIV's future is so bleak. MMOs are meant to account for a steady flow of money, and while the subscription market is difficult, I don't think that re-booting an MMO as F2P after a year is really bad thing -- F2P is a pretty viable business model, after all. First striving for subscriber money and afterwards changing to F2P doesn't strike me as a bad strategy.

I think Sony will want to get their hands on both and you are likey right, Nintendo wouldn't turn up in the first place.

Even though Nintendo dislikes to buy companies, I don't think they could afford not to turn up in this case. Japan is Nintendo's last stronghold and Sony getting exclusivity for both FF and especially DQ would hurt their Japan strategy a lot. They can't allow to let that happen.

However, I have a difficult time to imagine that either company is interested in such a big investment right now. The Western branch is mostly B-tier stuff and the Japanese side's IPs are so badly managed.... Not sure if it's worth to put so much money into it, especially because it's kind of uncertain whether or not Final Fantasy will be able to recover.

Reason for that are many, from major milking of franchises to poor quality of the game.

No, the reason is that the home console market is a shadow of its former self in Japan. The country was missing a clear successor to the PS2 in this generation, instead the market shifted to handhelds. RPGs didn't sell as good on consoles as in the past because the market just wasn't there -- at the same time console development got much more expensive while the western markets became more interested in other genres, making console JRPGs not very attractive to develop anymore.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Dinosaurs will die.

Later, Square Enix. I only hope that Nintendo buys Dragon Quest since they have done more to increase the Western presence of the series in the last few years than Squeenix has.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

It would be nice if they released Final Fantasy XIII trilogy for PC.

They'll re-use the 360 port's assets for such a port.

 

[Vinterbird]

Do we have some idea of where the different games such as Hitman, Sleeping Dogs and the rest where in terms of sales numbers?

 

[H_Prestige]

Sony should just buy them and be done with it

 

[Cmagus]

How about they start releasing games that fans ask for. That might help.

Pretty much.

This really isn't surprising their sheer lack of care towards their fans is astonishing at this point. They have enough franchises that people want and constantly ask for and they just simply don't care. I think they are gonna be in for a big shock with Final Fantasy XIII-3 when the sales are bad.

DQX? Although it probably doesn't help they it is a MMO with a month fee and released only in Japan. Anyone know what the current subscriber base is for DQX?

Last I heard it was doing well in Japan and was earning them profit. Sadly the chance of this being released here is 0% at this point and with FFXIV 2.0 launching soon they won't bring another MMO over and risk any conflicting sales with FFXIV 2.0.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

this is what happens when you make $3.99 dollar iphone games,

instead of focusing on finishing games people actually want

 

[Nirolak]

I really don't want to see them go under, hope the new gen does better for them.

Yes it sucks how FFXIV bombed and they wasted a ton of resources and time remaking it but at the same time version 2.0 is the first time that I've considered delving into an mmo.

A company with like over a billion in cash in the bank lost $61 million. I'm sure they'll be fine.

 

[LuuKyK]

lol at the doomsayers wishing for Square to die so their favorite irrelevant developers can try and shine in the segment.

Its ok Square

even the best ones have to go through hard times sometimes. But you will overcome it.

Just abandon stupid games like HitMEHn and Tombcharteder and focus on good franchises like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Deus Ex and some underapreciated gems like Sleeping Dogs. Eventually everything will come back to normality, with XIV making its way to be the best MMO of the gen after one big hard start shows how much potential you as a developer can turn everything in your favor in the harshest of the situations. Lightning Returns will do just fine for how much was invested in actually new assets, and with the iOS games for easy money you will soon be back.

Cant wait for next gen Final Fantasies.

 

[kuroshiki]

It would be interesting to see the performance of FF14 2.0.

I just hope nothing happens to yoshi producer when it bombs. Seems like a nice, talented guy.

lol at the doomsayers wishing for Square to die so their favorite irrelevant developers can try and shine in the segment.

Its ok Square

even the best ones have to go through hard times sometimes. But you will overcome it.

Just abandon stupid games like HitMEHn and Tombcharteder and focus on good franchises like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Deus Ex and some underapreciated gems like Sleeping Dogs. Eventually everything will come back to normality, with XIV making its way to be the best MMO of the gen after one big hard start shows how much potential you as a developer can turn everything in your favor in the harshest of the situations. Lightning Returns will do just fine for how much was invested in actually new assets, and with the iOS games for easy money you will soon be back.

Cant wait for next gen Final Fantasies.

Hitman Absolution was solid game, bro. And no one here actually played Tomb Raider rebooted yet, so how do you know it is 'stupid game'? Defending Lightning returns and dissing hitman absolution is the reason why fans are abandoning square.

Remake FF 7 - all will be solved.

At this point I don't really care. Serious.

 

[Master Nairb]

Remake FF 7 - all will be solved.

 

[KillerMan91]

Particularly in Japan, I'd say. I don't see things ending well for any Japanese developer that goes all in on PS4/Durango development in an attempt to compete in the Western AAA market (see: Agni's Philosophy).

You mean the same Japanese publishers that have actually made some money this gen? If anything some western publishers could follow the way of THQ and Midway next gen.

 

[jorgeton]

Maybe they should try releasing (non Eidos) games on consoles again instead of browser and phone games? Or release games their fans want? This is a mess of their own making, honestly.

 

[Road]

They're putting a ton of marketing behind Tomb Raider, I'm seeing ads everywhere. My own feeling is that it'll probably do rather well.

If by "do rather well" you mean ship 2 or 3 million copies first week, then see many of them being sold for $30 or $20, having to pay back retailers, then, yes, it will do as well as most of their console games in the past two years.

 

[Yamauchi]

I miss the days when Square and Enix were AAA developers.

 

[Nirolak]

Well, given that they're saying consoles are difficult and social/mobile/browser is great, I have a hunch about their plans.

 

[Yottamole]

I miss the days when Square and Enix were AAA developers.

You remembered wrong. Enix was never a developer.

What about SE's arcade business in Japan? They still have that Taito logo floating around somewhere don't they?

 

[AgentChris]

Isn't Mobage owned by Sony now?

 

[djplaeskool]

Isn't Mobage owned by Sony now?

Mobage is owned by DeNA, who's partially owned by So-net, who's partialy owned by Sony.

fixed for accuracy

 

[Stark]

Well, given that they're saying consoles are difficult and social/mobile/browser is great, I have a hunch about their plans.

All The Bravest 2?

 

[Haunted]

List of Square Enix developed games on consoles and PC this past generation:

Final Fantasy XI
Soul Eater: Monotone Princess
Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors
The Last Remnant
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIV
Mario Sports Mix
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Dragon Quest X: Mezameshi Itsutsu no Shuzoku Online

 

[Twilight Princess]

Well, given that they're saying consoles are difficult and social/mobile/browser is great, I have a hunch about their plans.

no, please, no

 

[kuroshiki]

Mobage is owned by DeNA

and DeNa's 40% stock is owned by Sony.

 

[djplaeskool]

and DeNa's 40% stock is owned by Sony.

The circle is completing itself.

 

[I'm an expert]

Remake FF 7 - all will be solved.

Do not want.

 

[Kagari]

and DeNa's 40% stock is owned by Sony.

Source?

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

It really seems like they are betting the company on FFXIV. I don't know where SE go when that inevitably bombs and leaves a massive crater in their balance sheet.

It would actually be a good opportunity for one of Sony or Nintendo to pick up SE on the relative cheap and secure FF and DQ as a first party franchises locking out the other one from total Japanese supremacy for the foreseeable future. If it were to go down this way my money would be on Sony. Soon they are going to have money to burn and securing their position in Japan like this would be worth more than the $800m they spend to buy the remainder of SE.

If it comes down to a 1st party bidding war, I'd more expect Microsoft to swoop in and outspend the field as usual. Losing Final Fantasy would essentially mean the end of PlayStation in Japan (and also significantly impact them overseas), losing Dragon Quest would seriously handicap Nintendo in Japan, plus with all the Eidos studios and properties it's really just too good an opportunity for Microsoft not to jump all over.

I doubt it comes to that though, we'll see SE sell off assets/studios first (Eidos, Taito, etc). Hell, we might see Enix divest themselves of Square entirely to stay afloat if it comes to that.

Among the first parties though, I'd say a Nintendo buyout has the best chance for preserving and growing SE's Japanese side. They already have good working relationships with most of the studio heads (Horii, Kawazu, Nomura, etc) and they're the only 1st party actually investing in Japanese developers to any real degree these days. Wada actually said Nintendo was the last the Japanese console maker too, at this point Sony's considered "western". I'd expect Fukushima, Wada and the board to favor a Nintendo purchase above the rest, though Microsoft's money would probably win out.

Sony really seems like the least likely of the 3 to secure them imo. They don't have either the cultural pull of Nintendo nor the financial pull of Microsoft, and they really don't even make for an attractive middleground between the two in those respects.

 

[Father_Brain]

You mean the same Japanese publishers that have actually made some money this gen? If anything some western publishers could follow the way of THQ and Midway next gen.

Made money from the Western console market?

I'm not sanguine about Western publishers in the coming gen, either, but it seems to me that the uphill battle Japanese AAA console titles face is even steeper.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Aren't most of the big dogs who made the best Final Fantasys still at the company in some capacity or other? Surely they can't bear to watch hacks like Toriyama shit on their legacy? Or are they just chilling back and eating up paychecks?

 

[Derrick01]

Well, given that they're saying consoles are difficult and social/mobile/browser is great, I have a hunch about their plans.

touchgaming.gif?

Racing to the bottom is fun!

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Well, given that they're saying consoles are difficult and social/mobile/browser is great, I have a hunch about their plans.

Bought out by GREE!

 

[Trogdor1123]

The fall of a company that simply refused to listen to its customers... kind of sad really.

 

[Nirolak]

and DeNa's 40% stock is owned by Sony.

I'm not seeing that here: http://investors.morningstar.com/ownership/shareholders-major.html?t=2432&region=JPN&culture=en-us

The largest shareholder institution only has 2.27%

 

[Ryuukan]

and DeNa's 40% stock is owned by Sony.

Source?

Sony owns 11.75% not 40%

acc to wiki

 

[M.D]

Sony is now the 2nd biggest shareholder in DeNA (the company behind Mobage)

 

[Kagari]

Sony owns 11.75% not 40%

acc to wiki

I see.
Well, SCE is still the third largest stock holder for Square Enix which is somewhat surprising.

 

[lordfroakie]

Dinosaurs will die.

Later, Square Enix. I only hope that Nintendo buys Dragon Quest since they have done more to increase the Western presence of the series in the last few years than Squeenix has.

Half of SE devs will end up at Nintendo sooner or later.

 

[KillerMan91]

Made money from the Western console market?

I'm not sanguine about Western publishers in the coming gen, either, but it seems to me that the uphill battle Japanese AAA console titles face is even steeper.

Well if you include Nintendo probably yes lol

Otherwise of course not. Just saying that Japanese publishers overall had at least this gen a lot more solid business plan. Tons of relatively cheap handheld games and then some AAA games every now and then. A lot more profitable strategy than what for example EA has (EA made over billion of loss this gen)

 

[metalslimer]

List of Square Enix developed games on consoles and PC this past generation:

Final Fantasy XI
Soul Eater: Monotone Princess
The Last Remnant
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIV
Mario Sports Mix
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Dragon Quest X: Mezameshi Itsutsu no Shuzoku Online

You forgot about DQ Swords, but man this list is pathetic and I expect even less next generation. Honestly, I would not be opposed to Square's IPs being jettisoned off to the highest bidder.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Source?

Sony bought So-net, so they now essentially own 11.75% of DeNA. 2nd largest shareholder.

edit: and way late.