-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Square Enix sued by SNKPlaymore, cops raided office
- Thread starter GekigangerV
- Start date
lmao, perfect
NeonZ
Member
There seems to be very little "fair use" allowed in Japan, not even parodies are really protected (which is why parodies in anime often go with renamed and redesigned characters even if just for background appearances - unless there's some connection in studio, production company, or such).
Manga often seem to be basically overlooked by companies though, but they seem harsher with anime. Still, there's not really protection even for the manga (including Doujins), it's just generally overlooked, until it isn't.
Hot Coldman
Banned
irfaanator
Banned
They were prepared.
perfect
DR2K
Banned
They must have missed the closed theatre.
CamHostage
Member
Interesting. Japan is notorious for ignoring copyright (Beatles music cribbed in Earthbound, the Commando/Rambo/Pliskin image clones in '80s games like Contra and Metal Gear ... the whole doujinshi industry) so I'm very surprised to see a complaint/suit actually get to the point of a raid.
It's actually a tribute work rather than something that infringes on any calculable way on the value of the product, so although it was stupid for Square Enix to not seek permission (which, sadly in this overly-cautious business environment, would be promptly denied,) I feel like there should have been some way for this to be legal? It's original art (albeit designed after the original,) it's a wholly separate work that makes it clear it is a manga about the girl rather than about the story or characters of the game (as far as I know of the manga... does she become part of the games, or does she just go to arcades?,) it is clearly not replicating or cloning the product (a printed image that looks like KoF doesn't have any buttons to let you play KoF,) and it really cannot be confused as that other company's product, as something that is taking revenue away from the copyright holder. I'm not sure what separates this from say Game Center CX, where the product's imagery and audio are used (not in service of news, either) for the profit of a third party... they even give away the gameplay experience surprises, which somebody could argue damages the value of the original. A moviegoer clip show wouldn't work like that, so unless CX is getting permission, I'm not clear what the difference is?
By the way, Hardcore Gaming 101 has a really nice feature on copy elements used in games:
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/tracing/tracing.htm
(Don't tell the cops!)
It's actually a tribute work rather than something that infringes on any calculable way on the value of the product, so although it was stupid for Square Enix to not seek permission (which, sadly in this overly-cautious business environment, would be promptly denied,) I feel like there should have been some way for this to be legal? It's original art (albeit designed after the original,) it's a wholly separate work that makes it clear it is a manga about the girl rather than about the story or characters of the game (as far as I know of the manga... does she become part of the games, or does she just go to arcades?,) it is clearly not replicating or cloning the product (a printed image that looks like KoF doesn't have any buttons to let you play KoF,) and it really cannot be confused as that other company's product, as something that is taking revenue away from the copyright holder. I'm not sure what separates this from say Game Center CX, where the product's imagery and audio are used (not in service of news, either) for the profit of a third party... they even give away the gameplay experience surprises, which somebody could argue damages the value of the original. A moviegoer clip show wouldn't work like that, so unless CX is getting permission, I'm not clear what the difference is?
By the way, Hardcore Gaming 101 has a really nice feature on copy elements used in games:
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/tracing/tracing.htm
(Don't tell the cops!)
SatelliteOfLove
Member
lmao, that's perfect
rekt
RPG_Fanatic
Member
The real news I got from this thread is that High Score Girl is getting an anime, which makes me happy.
PreyingShark
Member
...Their DQM devs are still getting paid, right? D:
Baleoce
Member
brandonh83
Banned
There it is. Well done.
So if this was an American thing, this would fall under parody law? Does Japan have nothing like that? Or is it because they used the "copyright" thing at the end?
For something that seems to be a love letter to 90s arcades, it seems pretty sad that there isn't a way around this.
I admit though that many things about copyright laws confuse me.
For something that seems to be a love letter to 90s arcades, it seems pretty sad that there isn't a way around this.
I admit though that many things about copyright laws confuse me.
I'm not an authority on legal issues, but I'm pretty sure fair use only covers non-profit endeavors. In this case, the manga is being made for profit so using these images is not covered by fair use.
I swear this gets me everytime. It gets funnier the more you look at it.
hahahaha.
Femmeworth
Banned
I wonder how much this has delayed Final Fantasy XV.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
I went into this thread for this. I was not disappointed.
Leafhopper
Banned
This thread didn't disappoint. That said its crazy how this got so far before it got this intense.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
They're two companies you'd think would never have anything to do with one another, but since the parent/joint company is gaining massive ground and buy outs seem almost innevidable , it's easy for one company to run into the next. Just wait... In 15 years when creative talent hits a hietus, we're probably going to see this more and more.
Copyrighted materials aren't something to be messed with.
Copyrighted materials aren't something to be messed with.
Mmcafe's musings about SNKP endangering it's use of Taito's hardware and distribution is a joke mainly because Sega has a similar system now which is also used by third parties. The arcade DOA5 and the most recent Accent Core revision and Xrd both use it.
And SNKP has used Sega in the past with Atomiswave.
And SNKP has used Sega in the past with Atomiswave.
Given the timescale we're talking about here, not much.
Humanity's journey, from our origin in east Africa, to today, and possibly our future exodus into outer space, are but a spec of dust, in what is the great chronicle of Final Fantasy XV's development cycle.
It totally is. High score girl is amazing, but yeah, they use every real world example on the books. There's totally a legit case there.
Hope it doesn't kill the book, it's really really good.
Sickboy007
Member
Why would they even put a copyright symbol if they have not secured the rights...
shaowebb
Member
Considering how protective Square Enix is of their own intellectual property given their strong history of handing out Cease and Desists to anyone and everyone ...well...its pretty IRONIC here to see them ripping off intellectual properties from other companies to boosts sells and interest in their own manga.
Yeah, pretty much. "Stop advertising our games for free! No one must know they exist!"
I dunno, to me this just seems like the equivalent of a character drinking a Coca-Cola in a comic and then the Coca-Cola company suing. Seems counterproductive to me and kind of a dick move.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
The Abominable Snowman
Member
SNKP is only worth 17M US Dollars.
I'm surprised they haven't been bought out, or went on to churn indie games alongside KOF.
Squenix is probably waiting for the extra income from that FFVII remake to buy them
I'm surprised they haven't been bought out, or went on to churn indie games alongside KOF.
Squenix is probably waiting for the extra income from that FFVII remake to buy them
Nothing would really have come of this if the company making the anime didn't contact SNK asking for the use of their characters and music. The big thing that is probably going to swing the case in SNK's favor is the end pages of the manga had the copyright symbol with SNK Playmore's logo next to it, making it look like they got permission when they never did.
NHarmonic.
Member
lmao, indeed.
hemo memo
Gold Member
lol
I like what I see of this Manga. Shame to find out about it in such a way.
But.. I'm surprised at this. I've always heard that Japanese publishers had to get permission for even including character art pieces in magazines. 90's game mags often noted how they had to go through a nice process to get permission for art and screens for overseas publication as well. Why wouldn't Squeenix have gotten permission for this situations automatically in the first place?
Anyone know how something like Genshiken handled all it's obvious trademark-series references in the past? I've rarely seen professional manga make such exact references in this manner, going by the screens posted here.
But.. I'm surprised at this. I've always heard that Japanese publishers had to get permission for even including character art pieces in magazines. 90's game mags often noted how they had to go through a nice process to get permission for art and screens for overseas publication as well. Why wouldn't Squeenix have gotten permission for this situations automatically in the first place?
Anyone know how something like Genshiken handled all it's obvious trademark-series references in the past? I've rarely seen professional manga make such exact references in this manner, going by the screens posted here.
PaulExcellent
Member
Seven Force
Banned
God damn, lol
Ryu bogard
Member
The manga sounds interesting. I will have to check it out.
What? Just 17M?
cosmicblizzard
Banned
I don't think any higher ups had a hand in referencing other properties at all, much less as a means to boost sales. It's a manga by one guy that just happens to be serialized in a magazine Square runs.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Yeah, but the editor or someone should have caught this, especially if it has "(C) SNK Playmore" in the end pages but SNK was never contacted.
crazygambit
Member
I didn't see the part about him being an expert, so his whole commentary is suspect IMO.