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Square's Ian Livingstone talks next-gen; hints at always-on, used game-blocking Xbox

C

Corto

Member
digoutyoursoul said:
It's just a online subscription not a jail term. The mainstream press will no doubt let the mass market know the situation

"Hey you can't borrow a game from your friend, rent or trade in"

"Wut"
Click to expand...

I know! But the mainstream press corollary of this won't be like you posted. The narrative Microsoft will push, and I believe will be very effective in pushing is:

"Hey! It's just like in the PC!"

And dumbly every single mainstream media will sing along.
 
K

kuroshiki

Member
If game price is $29.99 then I probably wouldn't care if it locks down. Steam already does this and I see no one complaining.
 
A

Art Teitlebaum

Member
Syphon Filter said:
Why would you buy a game and then sell it? Seems like a waste of money to me when you can save and rent instead.
Click to expand...

Not too many good possibilities to rent here in Germany. I did it from time to time from a video shop, but the games' condition were quite shitty too often and I hated the deadline to bring it back.
So I buy, can take my time and if I want I CAN sell it eight months later. No hassle here.
Disclaimer: I sell just about a quarter of my purchases. But I simply have problems with the storage of too many games.
 
S

Syphon Filter

Member
nib95 said:
Lol, what if you want to keep it for a few weeks, or even months? Like an online game or something. I very rarely buy used games (except as gifts for cousins, relatives etc just for the hell of it), but I do lend my games to friends/relatives quite often, a lot of them are young, got given consoles as gifts and can't really afford many games.
Click to expand...

well then even renting it twice will be much cheaper. it is just a dumb move to do.
 
S

Syphon Filter

Member
Respawn said:
You underestimate the purchasing consumer. So many have said this machine is locked down hard. I have a feeling its going to do some fantastic things that will soften the blow on not being able to play used games.
Click to expand...

did you forget about the always online though? that is much worse compared to any of the other rumors. aint nothing softening that.
 
N

nib95

Banned
Syphon Filter said:
well then even renting it twice will be much cheaper. it is just a dumb move to do.
Click to expand...

Renting a game twice? How would that let you have it for 2 weeks to a month or more? Lol. Your posts are either incredibly naive or baffling on the matter.

Fact that you can't comprehend why people would borrow or lend games is perplexing.
 
Boss Man

Boss Man

Member
It would be pretty funny if MS uses this as a way to put a paywall in front of you being able to play the games that you buy. "Need XBLG to verify disc. Please update payment information."

I don't think they'd be that bold though.
 
E

Eusis

Member
Corto said:
I'm leaning to think that it won't matter a thing, if Microsoft blocks used games. I think they'll get away with it easily. They have users by their Livesticles and they know very well how much they can squeeze before they scare them away. This won't do it still.
Click to expand...
The PS2 was practically the God Emperor of consoles, only seriously challenged by the Game Boy Advance then the DS for market share. Then the PS3 sunk that status profoundly easily. This is a better example than Wii to Wii U, as the Wii just caught the fickle casual audience while the PS2 caught, well, everyone. Admittedly the PS3 still managed to climb to a solid second place internationally and is far from irrelevant in the US/UK, but that just ends up more damning for Microsoft as a single significant slipup could, at an extreme, mean the slide into Sega-esque irrelevance.
Syphon Filter said:
The always online is what is bad. Used games i don't care about. Why would you buy used games? Who knows the the previous owner did with it.
Click to expand...
As pointed out sometimes people just want to get really old games. The hypothetical situation of skipping a new copy for $5 off as used seems to actually be less common than it'd seem for all the industry's crying, certainly I don't care to buy used for games readily available as new. But once those new copies start evaporating and I decide I want the game, yeah, I'll buy used. At worst I just take it back because it's scratched to hell or something.
 
W

WiiredShawn

Member
ascii42 said:
I'm currently bidding on a Sega Master System on eBay. Obviously it's going to be used.
Click to expand...

I think this post illustrates one of the problems with the policy as described in the OP. We can still buy and sell older systems and their games. But say, 10-20 years down the road, if someone decides to revisit the Xbox 720, it will be almost impossible - sure you can find the games, but you won't be able to buy them used, at least not without having to pay an access fee. And how do we know MS would think long-term enough to maintain a payment system after the console has run its main course?

Obviously this might only impact a small segment of the market, but it's still there and it's still annoying, not to mention the frustration brought upon present gamers who aren't swimming in cash and want to buy games more cheaply than digital downloading allows.
 
C

Corto

Member
Eusis said:
The PS2 was practically the God Emperor of consoles, only seriously challenged by the Game Boy Advance then the DS for market share. Then the PS3 sunk that status profoundly easily. This is a better example than Wii to Wii U, as the Wii just caught the fickle casual audience while the PS2 caught, well, everyone. Admittedly the PS3 still managed to climb to a solid second place internationally and is far from irrelevant in the US/UK, but that just ends up more damning for Microsoft as a single significant slipup could, at an extreme, mean the slide into Sega-esque irrelevance.
Click to expand...

They got away with paid online. Sure people can argue that other accessory services were included to sweeten the deal with that. And that is exactly what will happen now. They'll add some features and services to make it more palatable and people will forget about it and even argue that users had a great deal at the end. Save this post for future reference.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
kuroshiki said:
If game price is $29.99 then I probably wouldn't care if it locks down. Steam already does this and I see no one complaining.
Click to expand...

Well, of course. If MS announced a MSRP of $29.99 for every game I'd buy Durango in a heartbeat.

The idea of that price drop ever happening is laughable at best.
 
K

kuroshiki

Member
Plinko said:
Well, of course. If MS announced a MSRP of $29.99 for every game I'd buy Durango in a heartbeat.

The idea of that price drop ever happening is laughable at best.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly my point. They won't do it.

MS can't force publishers about the price. =P But seriously if buying game = added to the library and digitally locked in = sounds a lot like a steam. I don't see the problem.

Like PC version of Skyrim. I cannot sell that copy even though I have a PC version because the game is now locked with Steam. (shrug) I don't see any 'burn the house! Kill them all!' response.

however, I will buy PS4 anyway so It would be fun to see the reaction here when this proves to be true. lol.
 
A

Acorn

Member
The PC ecosystem and reasons for why there are no used games(happy byproduct of piracy protection not main goal)is completely different from consoles.
 
Rhazer Fusion

Rhazer Fusion

Member
Guys, seriously these supposed rumors just keep popping up and you know what that normally means. I think it's becoming legitimate now plus Microsoft or anyone hasn't denied them yet. If this is true, the system could be DOA. Online always, anti-used games, heavy Kinect focus.........They are making it easier and easier to go PS4 only for next generation. We'll see eventually, but this is not looking good.
 
K

kuroshiki

Member
The way I see it is, that MS will PR this thing with something like:

"Your copy of game will be automatically installed in HDD. Not only that, from that point on, your account and your game will be permanently linked together, so even though in the future if you lost your game disc, you are free to download the game from our server. The game is with you, FOREVER."


Seriously, I don't see anything wrong with this? I think this is perfectly viable as long as they are letting people buy game from both digital AND physical. Physical copies always have some sort of sale going on, and if this gen proved anything, games can become cheap very, very fast.
 
C

Corto

Member
kuroshiki said:
The way I see it is, that MS will PR this thing with something like:

"Your copy of game will be automatically installed in HDD. Not only that, from that point on, your account and your game will be permanently linked together, so even though in the future if you lost your game disc, you are free to download the game from our server. The game is with you, FOREVER."


Seriously, I don't see anything wrong with this? I think this is perfectly viable as long as they are letting people buy game from both digital AND physical. Physical copies always have some sort of sale going on, and if this gen proved anything, games can become cheap very, very fast.
Click to expand...

The user will make zero risk buys. Only the top dogs, AAAA games will get notable sales. It will suffocate the industry. You may argue that that's what happens already, and I will agree, this will only exacerbate that.
 
A

Acorn

Member
A big reason for sales is the used games market providing downward pressure. I don't see MS curating the marketplace like valve so you lose ownership and get your wallet attacked.

Essentially they will be having their cake and eating it, by eliminating part of the market.
 
S

Syphon Filter

Member
kuroshiki said:
The way I see it is, that MS will PR this thing with something like:

"Your copy of game will be automatically installed in HDD. Not only that, from that point on, your account and your game will be permanently linked together, so even though in the future if you lost your game disc, you are free to download the game from our server. The game is with you, FOREVER."


Seriously, I don't see anything wrong with this? I think this is perfectly viable as long as they are letting people buy game from both digital AND physical. Physical copies always have some sort of sale going on, and if this gen proved anything, games can become cheap very, very fast.
Click to expand...

yea but you are forgetting the always online part.
 
K

kuroshiki

Member
Corto said:
The user will make zero risk buys. Only the top dogs, AAAA games will get notable sales. It will suffocate the industry. You may argue that that's what happens already, and I will agree, this will only exacerbate that.
Click to expand...

Then those non AAA titles will have to adapt by not releasing at $59.99 price in the very beginning. Release them at $19.99 then people will buy it.

Syphon Filter said:
yea but you are forgetting the always online part.
Click to expand...

Well, let's be honest here. Internet penetration has been reached critical mass by now. All of my indian friends in india has internet. Every chinese friend in mainland china has internet, and let's not kid about Koreans and Japaneses.

Major markets have all connected with internet by now. I don't think this will be a huge problem.
 
S

Syphon Filter

Member
kuroshiki said:
Then those non AAA titles will have to adapt by not releasing at $59.99 price in the very beginning. Release them at $19.99 then people will buy it.



Well, let's be honest here. Internet penetration has been reached critical mass by now. All of my indian friends in india has internet. Every chinese friend in mainland china has internet, and let's not kid about Koreans and Japaneses.

Major markets have all connected with internet by now. I don't think this will be a huge problem.
Click to expand...

I know but it's the principal of always online that i think will sway away people towards ps4. I mean why should someone be online for a campaign mode?
 
O

Ollie Pooch

In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
I can't even count the amount of games I've bought and sold over the years. Once I'm done with it, I sell it on. Otherwise it's just plastic clutter.

If true, I wonder how this would affect their console sales in game stores, given how many make big profits on used games - no doubt they'd push the console that allows used games over one that doesn't.
 
Q

Quasar

Member
kuroshiki said:
The way I see it is, that MS will PR this thing with something like:

"Your copy of game will be automatically installed in HDD. Not only that, from that point on, your account and your game will be permanently linked together, so even though in the future if you lost your game disc, you are free to download the game from our server. The game is with you, FOREVER."

Seriously, I don't see anything wrong with this? I think this is perfectly viable as long as they are letting people buy game from both digital AND physical. Physical copies always have some sort of sale going on, and if this gen proved anything, games can become cheap very, very fast.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Which is why I'd be fine with it. Region locking to stop shopping around for physical deals is much more of an issue for me.
 
G

G.Newell

Member
So say if its a system like Steam would people be happy? As Steam is essentially always online and no used games yet i rarely see people complaining.
 
K

kuroshiki

Member
G.Newell said:
So say if its a system like Steam would people be happy? As Steam is essentially always online and no used games yet i rarely see people complaining.
Click to expand...

Steam does have offline mode but that mode is piece of muddly shit that is hardly worth ANYTHING. So many unplayable games and errors. Fuck steam programmers. Fuck them all. /rage

Anyway, Yeah. I think Steam's success gave MS and publishers ideas that used games are now good to go.
 
A

abadguy

Banned
Zephyrus said:
I honestly do.

Boy, do I want to see Microsoft crash and burn.

Particularly because, other than online gaming (and even that has it's pros and cons), I do believe that every single damn thing microsoft introduced in the previous gen, is cancerous.

Don't share my opinion on it? Kudos for each and everyone of you.
Click to expand...

hardcore Sony warriors tend not to be too fond of competition though, i remember them on forums cheering at the death of the Dreamcast. So posts like yours are no surprise to me.

Espada said:
On a corporate level there's probably TONS of benefits. The problem is that it screws the gamers over in several ways.
Click to expand...

Like what?
 
S

Syphon Filter

Member
G.Newell said:
So say if its a system like Steam would people be happy? As Steam is essentially always online and no used games yet i rarely see people complaining.
Click to expand...

Well Steam is not always online, it has offline mode and it works for me. The rumor is that it is always online. If they do have offline then it should be fine but then again console guys aren't used to it.
 
K

Khalifa Jayy

Banned
SephCast said:
Anyone else hoping Xbox goes Used-Blocking so you can make an easier decision come this holiday?
Click to expand...
Somewhat. I think I'm going PS4 regardless. If the other rumors are true (in terms of computing horsepower and all that jazz), I'm going PS4 for sure. I hate kinect and MS's first party offerings aren't necessarily must haves for me... I had a blast with my 360 this gen, but I'm almost convinced that Sony's hardware will be gracing my room this holiday season.
 
S

SunhiLegend

Member
I hope this isn't true and it just stays a rumour. My brother will be buying an xbox for sure come the end of the year, but most of the games he's brought, same with my PS3 games, have all been used. I woudn't mind if you can still buy used games but have to pay a small activation fee to play online like you get with some games this gen, but flat out no used games is ridiculous, same with the always online bullshit.
 
T

TwEE-N-Toast

Banned
swordsman720 said:
If MS pulled the WII U debacle which ties the download Games to 1 console, this will be my last console from this company leads by morons.
Click to expand...

That would be one less strike against the NextBox if they did, for me. Wii U is completely backwards compatible, all your Wii digital purchases and save files transfer over just fine to the Wii U.
 
M

mentalfloss

Banned
Looking over my library this gen, I bought substantially fewer used games. I just waited out most games until there was a drop and bought them at reasonable price.

I think MS is going to lead the way toward digital distribution. Used games, and network availability are the only things holding it back, but both problems will be phased out in a few years.

Also, this is going to give devs more incentive to develop for 720 over PS4.
 
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