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[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

The beauty of what I mentioned is no hardware change, a normal-ish PCI-e 4.0 drive plus software defined storage getting rid of block level accesses = massive IOPS.

Though I think the SSD will be more special than that with all their research and patents into controller SRAM caches and all that.

INFORMATION PROCESSING DEVICE, ACCESS CONTROLLER, INFORMATION PROCESSING METHOD, AND COMPUTER PROGRAM - Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc.

<div p-id="p-0001">Disclosed herein is an information processing device including a host unit adapted to request data access by specifying a logical address of a secondary storage device, and a contro

www.freepatentsonline.com

- SRAM instead of DRAM inside the SSD for lower latency and higher throughput access between the flash memory controller and the address lookup data. The patent proposes using a coarser granularity of data access for data that is written once, and not re-written - e.g. game install data. This larger block size can allow for address lookup tables as small as 32KB, instead of 1GB. Data read by the memory controller can also be buffered in SRAM for ECC checks instead of DRAM (because of changes made further up the stack, described later). The patent also notes that by ditching DRAM, reduced complexity and cost may be possible, and cost will scale better with larger SSDs that would otherwise need e.g. 2GB of DRAM for 2TB of storage, and so on.

- The SSD's read unit is 'expanded and unified' for efficient read operations.

- A secondary CPU, a DMAC, and a hardware accelerator for decoding, tamper checking and decompression.

- The main CPU, the secondary CPU, the system memory controller and the IO bus are connected by a coherent bus. The patent notes that the secondary CPU can be different in instruction set etc. from the main CPU, as long as they use the same page size and are connected by a coherent bus.

- The hardware accelerator and the IO controller are connected to the IO bus.

If it ends up being all three parts of the triforce here...Holy hell.

They could go with PSRAM as a DRAM replacement most likely; more affordable than SRAM, functions like SRAM, and comes in larger capacities.

 

[Bernkastel]

It sure is

Xbox Series X SSDs Will be Powered by Phison Controller, Report Claims

A recent DigiTimes report gives us a hint of what's to come with the Xbox Series X

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Rightisright]

OP may have jumped too quickly here lol.

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

I am expecting both systems to sport the PCIe 4.0 x4 interface with a NVMe SSD @ 3-5GB/s transfer rate, I am hoping it is not less than 3GB/s but it is a possibility if they are really trying to keep costs down.

 

[CJY]

I think this deserves a bump.

Called it back in December and I guess many chose not to listen.

The TFlops don't matter and even if it did, 1.7Tflops isn't enough to matter next gen.

DF even did a video diving into why it's more than just loading times and yet people still keep spouting this "PS5 load in 2.5 seconds, XSX load in 5, yee-haaaw!!" bullshit.

 

[megreotsugua]

still keep spouting this "PS5 load in 2.5 seconds, XSX load in 5, yee-haaaw!!" bullshit.

PS5 is instant, XSX is 9 seconds.

We have hard data on this.

Those saying that the XSX 9 second loading times as shown in the video is unoptimized are lying to themselves. Why would MS make an official video that promotes loading times using unoptimized game. Think!

It appears that fast data transfer is not only solved by pure SSD speed and decompression chip. Sony has eliminated all possible bottlenecks in the I/O by using a lot of custom chips.

 

[CJY]

PS5 is instant, XSX is 9 seconds.

We have hard data on this.

Those saying that the XSX 9 second loading times as shown in the video is unoptimized are lying to themselves. Why would MS make an official video that promotes loading times using unoptimized game. Think!

It appears that fast data transfer is not only solved by pure SSD speed and decompression chip. Sony has eliminated all possible bottlenecks in the I/O by using a lot of custom chips.

Yes, they have different philosophies when it comes their SSDs.

Sony: Zero Loads times
MS: Reduce load times.

Both fast, but Sony's philosophy is simply better in this area and more informed/considered.

 

[Bernkastel]

PS5 is instant, XSX is 9 seconds.

We have hard data on this.

Those saying that the XSX 9 second loading times as shown in the video is unoptimized are lying to themselves. Why would MS make an official video that promotes loading times using unoptimized game. Think!

It appears that fast data transfer is not only solved by pure SSD speed and decompression chip. Sony has eliminated all possible bottlenecks in the I/O by using a lot of custom chips.

Yes, they have different philosophies when it comes their SSDs.

Sony: Zero Loads times
MS: Reduce load times.

Both fast, but Sony's philosophy is simply better in this area and more informed/considered.

Nope. One has Spiderman which had 7-8 seconds, optimized for PS5 loading instantly. Then there is State of Decay 2 which takes 40+ seconds(sometimes even a minute) loading at around 8 seconds unoptimized in XSX.

 

[sinnergy]

Yes! The SSD wars have begun!

 

[megreotsugua]

Yes! The SSD wars have begun!

I thought it would be 1 second vs 2-3 seconds. But MS has let me down.

Instant loading vs 9 seconds of loading is substantial difference.

 

[megreotsugua]

Yes, they have different philosophies when it comes their SSDs.

Sony: Zero Loads times
MS: Reduce load times.

Both fast, but Sony's philosophy is simply better in this area and more informed/considered.

Can you look for that slide in the Cerny's presentation that says instant boot up and less than a second loading time or something like that.

 

[CJY]

Nope. You has Spiderman which had 7-8 seconds, optimized for PS5 loading instantly. Then there is State of Decay 2 which takes 40+ seconds(sometimes even a minute) loading at around 8 seconds unoptimized in XSX.

never mind, didn't read properly.

Not sure why you're saying "nope", though.

 

[CJY]

Can you look for that slide in the Cerny's presentation that says instant boot up and less than a second loading time or something like that.

This one?

 

[Fulcizombie]

Sure whatever suits Sony is the battleground every gen, GPU, CPU, Ram e.t.c be damned.

 

[megreotsugua]

This one?

Yes that one. No load screens.

If loading times is even at 4 seconds, they would need a loading screen.

But I'm more interested in the ultra-high speed streaming. That's what developers are saying will make the most difference.

 

[megreotsugua]

Sure whatever suits Sony is the battleground every gen, GPU, CPU, Ram e.t.c be damned.

Well, Sony is the market leader with more than 100+ million PS4 players ready to jump to PS5.

Looks like playstation fanbase are in for a treat with PS5's accessibility. No loading times.

 

[GaviotaGrande]

3rd party games will play and look best on Xbox. Punto final.

 

[Nickolaidas]

If loading times is even at 4 seconds, they would need a loading screen.

No. They wouldn't.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

 

[TBiddy]

PS5 is instant, XSX is 9 seconds.

We have hard data on this.

Sorry to be blunt, but I think you reeeeeally need to redefine your definition of "hard data". We have no data.. or very little data, at best.

edit:

megreotsugua
Instead of using emojis to discuss, how about actually discussing instead?

Can you share where you got the "no load time" and the "9 second load time" and how you arrived at the conclusion that it is how it's going to be for all games, moving forward?

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

I would love to know what Nintendo will do next: be conservative and hitting a wall like XBOX or follow the Sony route with full speed other power.

 

[TBiddy]

I would love to know what Nintendo will do next: be conservative and hitting a wall like XBOX or follow the Sony route with full speed other power.

From the looks of it, Sony is about to hit a wall. A wall of heat. From their ridiculously high-frequency overclocked CPU running at temperatures higher than the sun.

Boom.

I kid. But apparantly that is the level of discourse you're looking for.

 

[BigLee74]

Sony take a game that loads on ps4 in 8 seconds, optomise it for PS5 SSD, and then load it in 0.8s.

Ms take a game that loads on X1 in about 40 seconds, don't optimise it for X1X SSD, and load it in 10s.

And from this, people deduce that PS5 loading is instant, and X1X is just quicker.

Friggin' surrounded by scientists

Here's what will happen.

Game X will come out, optomised for SSDs.

If PS5 loads it in 1 second, X1X will load it in 2.

X1X will then run the game in a higher resolution and with less performance drops for hours and hours, with nicer RTX features.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Sony take a game that loads on ps4 in 8 seconds, optomise it for PS5 SSD, and then load it in 0.8s.

Ms take a game that loads on X1 in about 40 seconds, don't optimise it for X1X SSD, and load it in 10s.

And from this, people deduce that PS5 loading is instant, and X1X is just quicker.

Friggin' surrounded by scientists

Here's what will happen.

Game X will come out, optomised for SSDs.

If PS5 loads it in 1 second, X1X will load it in 2.

X1X will then run the game in a higher resolution and with less performance drops for hours and hours, with nicer RTX features.

This is a misrepresentation of what the tech offers.

Both the XsX and the PS5 will be able to leverage the SSD to stream assets and to offload some burdens from the RAM to the drive. In the past, the snail-slow speed of disk readers + platter drives necessitated a lot of RAM and/or fast CPU and/or fast GPU so that assets could be loaded from the drive, helping to avoid the significant bottlenecks.

With this issue out of the way, we will instead see bottlenecks appear elsewhere. My guess is the RAM speed (not even pool size, but speed) ends up being the bottleneck in a few years.

 

[Sota4077]

Sony take a game that loads on ps4 in 8 seconds, optomise it for PS5 SSD, and then load it in 0.8s.

Ms take a game that loads on X1 in about 40 seconds, don't optimise it for X1X SSD, and load it in 10s.

And from this, people deduce that PS5 loading is instant, and X1X is just quicker.

Friggin' surrounded by scientists

Here's what will happen.

Game X will come out, optomised for SSDs.

If PS5 loads it in 1 second, X1X will load it in 2.

X1X will then run the game in a higher resolution and with less performance drops for hours and hours, with nicer RTX features.

THIS. I simply for the life of me just do not understand this coooooonstant barrage of bullshit that has been spread about how better specs are now meaningless because of some custom SSD setup. It defies logic at every turn. SSD's are awesome I have had them for years on my PC. I am happy both consoles are getting them now. But this idea that what Sony did puts it on top in some head to head graphical comparison is just nonsense. If you take two cups and one is able to hold more water it doesn't mean the one that could be filled up faster is better in the end. The Sony SSD is going to be awesome as hell, but stop pretending it is so much more than it actually is. The Playstation 5 will be the weaker console. Who gives a shit my god.

 

[megreotsugua]

Sony take a game that loads on ps4 in 8 seconds, optomise it for PS5 SSD, and then load it in 0.8s.

Ms take a game that loads on X1 in about 40 seconds, don't optimise it for X1X SSD, and load it in 10s.

And from this, people deduce that PS5 loading is instant, and X1X is just quicker.

Friggin' surrounded by scientists

Here's what will happen.

Game X will come out, optomised for SSDs.

If PS5 loads it in 1 second, X1X will load it in 2.

X1X will then run the game in a higher resolution and with less performance drops for hours and hours, with nicer RTX features.

You're in denial if you think the MS official video demoing their fast loading times is using an unoptimized game. 9 seconds. lol There were showcasing the loading time and they'll use an unoptimized code to do it? Think.

Cerny said no loading screen for PS5 games and instant boot up. We'll see.

XSX will have higher resolution? Well yeah, on screen output resolution. 4k vs a little below 4k doesn't matter.

SSD speed will be used by Sony World Wide Studios to show insane texture resolution and details, not output resolution that doesn't show much difference anyway.

 

[Amaranty]

I've yet to see what consoles do better that PC's can't do and it probably won't be any different next-gen.

Also, just because Sony made 1h long presentation of their PS5 doesn't mean that XSX is anything less, some people are thinking that XSX is simply a regular CPU and GPU crammed into a small box with zero custom design.

 

[BigLee74]

You're in denial if you think the MS official video demoing their fast loading times is using an unoptimized game. 9 seconds. lol There were showcasing the loading time and they'll use an unoptimized code to do it? Think.

Erm, how about YOU think?

Why would I be in denial? MS were showcasing what impact the SSD will have on all of our existing games as they stand. That is, they will load much quicker without any intervention.

Can't see why they would choose to lie about that when it can be easily verified...

Now obviously, games designed around the SSD will likely be quicker again.

Time will tell.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Now we know why Sony has focused so much on SSD.

 

[Sota4077]

You're in denial if you think the MS official video demoing their fast loading times is using an unoptimized game. 9 seconds. lol There were showcasing the loading time and they'll use an unoptimized code to do it? Think.

Their point was that State Of Decay was not designed around Xbox Series X hardware. It was designed on and for Xbox One gen hardware. That is all he was getting at. When you know you are working with an SSD I imagine you can do things slightly different. I mean that is obvious because Sony are saying it is a game changer right? So if they took State Of Decay and built the game from the get go with an SSD in mind things presumably would be able to load more efficiently. To say that is not the case is to say that what Sony is saying is also not true then.

 

[tflopsmatter]

There is no battleground because there's only one next gen console.

 

[CJY]

Just read the OP again and shoutout to myself for being bang-on the money with my prediction of:

[XSX] in the region of 3-7GB/s. If Sony has something that can do 20-25GB/s throughput, I think we may have a gamechanger.

The official figures for maximum IO throughput are:

XSX - 6GB/s
PS5 - 22GB/s

How is it a gamechanger? Dunno, don't really care if you don't think so. All I know is that it's gonna change the game next gen and it's the primary battleground between the two next-gen consoles and how the respective sets of developers on both side take advantage of the SSDs will be the evidence. Even Digital Foundry didn't give details of how it's going to change things exactly within games either. One can only use their intuition and imagination until we see the demos/games.

I imagine going close back to the days of cartridges and the complete lack of loading times and corridors. Almost zero filler. Like Mario 64 - the first free-roaming open world game. You're in the castle exploring, jump through a picture and boom, you're in another world instantly. Compare that to God of War (2018), my GotG, I've played through it three times and considered speedrunning it, but the thought of waiting, waiting, waiting when fast travelling, running through the Realm between Realms, the realm travel room... ew, no thanks. All of those things were put into the game to mask loading and it would have taken a lot of time in planning, designing and executing on all that by the studio just to hide loading times. I think with the next GoW, they have a dilemma... do they keep all of that just for the sake of continuity? Or do they create some new plot device that allows them to forego all of that altogether and maybe introduce an item where you can create realm tears anywhere so you can travel to another dimension any time you want.

Imagine the amount of time that could have been saved if they didn't have to do all that "fast travel" stuff in GoW, and instead have a greater variety of enemies, imagine having enemies that instead of coming out of realm tears, they would pull you into the realm tears and boom, you're in Helheim instantaneously. We might have even gotten to see Svartalfheim, Vanaheim and Asgard even. Speaking of portals, imagine the vast difference in scale Portal could be if those portals, instead of being confined to a single area could be used across the span of an entire open world.

Someone sent me this comment from REEEE which I found cool:

Consider how Cerny discusses literally loading only the assets you need in your field of view and just beyond... if the game is expecting a jump cut to a whole different area it can cull what’s behind you and cache the assets it needs in the immediate viewing area of the next scene ready to cut in one frame. No fade to black needed, no jumping to a videoclip while the next area loads. Remember even if it just loads up a 90 degree section in front of you the SSD is fast enough to load surrounding assets ready to go (if gameplay is resuming immediately rather than a cut-scen) in a fraction of a second. I think for developers really wanting to explore proper movie style story telling but in a game this could be amazing. Instant cuts in GTA from one character to another at the other side of the world. Storytelling in gampeplay will absolutely be unleashed for developers who no longer need to worry about using video cut-scenes to help transition or whatever other tricks they employ (or indeed just concepts that get binned because right now they are simply technically not possible).

Flops:

 

[Fulcizombie]

This thread is a huge flop, just like the ps5’ specs.