• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

[Star Citizen - Squadron 42] CEO Chris Roberts adresses concerns on state of the game and roadmap changes

W

Whataborman

Unconfirmed Member
do you ever reach the point when you like something that you just start thinking..
SHUT THE FUCK UP and start talking when it's out?

Every single game, system, card, etc...

I really don't want to hear anything until I can actually purchase your product.
 

KyoShiRo330

Member
Jan 21, 2018
2,688
10,516
940
31
Bordeaux, France
OCS is already implemented, so I don't know what you're talking about? Not sure about the fps, but not everyone can get the same fps in the game environment, but it is more than stable. I reach between 50/100fps in star citizen at 1440p and 4K between 45/75fps. The big network/feature implementations that are coming and will make the star citizen grow enormously are:

- iCache (nearly done)
- Physics refactor (done, waiting for iCache)
- Physical damage system + softbody destruction - (in development)
- Server Meshing - (in development)
- Quantum - (in development)

The first 2 are already implemented, and the second one is already ready, but it is waiting for iCache. This will include docking from station to station and ship to ship docking as well as snub craft undocking and mother ship docking. Other things that will eventually work with this technology are the Hull C, Caterpillar command module docking / undocking and escape pods.

Yeah it was the Server meshing that I was talking about, but common you know what I mean right ? 50 players on a MMO ? Continuously reported features? Deactivated things like being able to... sit ?! This is ridiculous. And by the way, the OCS is far from being finished too.
For the FPS, the last time I launched the game it was on 3.09 and the experience was AWFUL, 10/25 FPS and lots of bugs just like we where back to 2.8). Don't tell me it wasn't like this, or it's my PC (RTX 2070, 16GB RAM, SSD and 9750H) because it is not. On Spectrum people make it clear that their was a lots of performance issues and bugs. So yeah maybe a miracle has happened since but I find this hard to believe.
I'm gonna try it by myself but I feel like you have been a little bit over-exaggerating, those performance you describe where the one I had on 3.2.
 

iHaunter

Member
Sep 6, 2015
2,413
2,158
550
How much money did you donate?

$60, basic game package that includes the multi-player. Why would I dump $1k in a game that by design might be too ambitious to not finish? But I have 200+ hours in it with my buddy so it was already worth it for me.

FYI I do not invoke ANYONE spend any money on Star Citizen unless they are okay with potentially losing it.

Fun video of where the game is.

 
  • Like
Reactions: CamHostage

iHaunter

Member
Sep 6, 2015
2,413
2,158
550
I mean, I know you think that sounds like a good thing.

Anyone who's ever managed a company (especially start-ups) just sees an absolute nightmare looking at that number. If there's ever a more prominent indication that the development is an absolute mess its that number.

I think they learned a lot. But there was definitely a lot of mis-management in the first few years. They gave a company (I forget the name) millions of dollars to develop the FPS part of the game. They ended up doing a shit job, cost a lot of money, and CIG spent years redoing their work. HUGE mistake.
 

ShadowNate

Member
Dec 2, 2013
257
300
570
That is partially true. CIG kept changing the specs for the FPS even during late production (of said module) and made it impossible for the third party company to do a proper work.

This is by the way typical of Roberts management throughout the whole project. They keep re-doing the same models and animations because the specifications for dimensions, scale keep changing, and they seem to have to redo those even with (seemingly) small changes.
 

iHaunter

Member
Sep 6, 2015
2,413
2,158
550
A
Are those current employee numbers or just contractors over the years in production? I'm inclined to believe it's the latter as its hardly surprising given the length of the project.

I have no idea, I'm sure their numbers change. I dont work for CIG.
 
Sep 9, 2018
530
869
385
Hiring 760+ employees in multiple studios. Really shitty way to scam money when you're spending all of it. But I don't expect the average gaffer to think that far ahead.

He's bought himself a house and his wife and family is pocketing wages in key positions.

You're naive.
 

Tfault

Member
May 26, 2013
305
34
495
CIG headcount to 2018

 

Snake29

Member
Jul 30, 2013
1,948
2,414
635
The Netherlands
Yeah it was the Server meshing that I was talking about, but common you know what I mean right ? 50 players on a MMO ? Continuously reported features? Deactivated things like being able to... sit ?! This is ridiculous. And by the way, the OCS is far from being finished too.
For the FPS, the last time I launched the game it was on 3.09 and the experience was AWFUL, 10/25 FPS and lots of bugs just like we where back to 2.8). Don't tell me it wasn't like this, or it's my PC (RTX 2070, 16GB RAM, SSD and 9750H) because it is not. On Spectrum people make it clear that their was a lots of performance issues and bugs. So yeah maybe a miracle has happened since but I find this hard to believe.
I'm gonna try it by myself but I feel like you have been a little bit over-exaggerating, those performance you describe where the one I had on 3.2.

3.9 was so far the worst patch of all. 3.10 is overall really stable and i haven’t encountered any 30K, so that’s a good sign. 50 people on server has to do with server meshing. When this is implemented, there is nothing that will stop them
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: KyoShiRo330

Ixiah

Banned
Feb 16, 2018
745
880
390
Holy fuck, just what is that the plan here ?
Develop a game for 10-15 years, and only THEN release it into EARLY ACCESS for another 5-10 years ?
You would think the people leading the Studio are people with Game Development experience that could avoid feature creep.
 

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Jul 7, 2020
6,558
7,763
700
So why's this game been taking so long anyway?

Scope creep?
Scope creep? The game was promising a massively multiplayer universe with fully explorable buildings/ships/cities/planets/solar systems, like 9 types of gameplay and every feature under the sun. That was the starting point. Yeah, there is a scope problem, no creep required.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CamHostage

Lanrutcon

Member
Feb 19, 2014
10,659
5,327
770
Irrelevant
Odd thread. I don't know why, but I keep hearing...yeah, I keep hearing the Duke Nukem theme playing somewhere in the distance. Like it's been playing...

...forever.
 

Buki1

Member
Oct 26, 2018
75
306
290
CIG headcount to 2018


I would love to see what those people are actually doing. Like in what departments they are working. And how many of them are actually making that game and how many are in pr, hr, finances, marketing, accountancy etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ShadowNate
Oct 26, 2018
17,575
24,417
795
I would love to see what those people are actually doing. Like in what departments they are working. And how many of them are actually making that game and how many are in pr, hr, finances, marketing, accountancy etc.
Going by the non-dev employees, the studio has a combined 113 people doing non-dev office work (51+17+26+19).

And another 408 of dev team members for the 521 total.

Insane. Probably right up there with the GTA of the world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Buki1

Sybrix

Member
Aug 20, 2017
657
1,129
565
As someone who has given this company zero funding, its fascinating to watch how this has been playing out, ill keep my eye on it on and off and see what happens.

I suspect it will end in uproar.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: ultrazilla

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Jul 7, 2020
6,558
7,763
700
Although there exists no reality in which Star Citizen comes out and lives up to the hopes and promises, I do think there is a non-zero chance for a Squadron 42 to call me out and be decent.
 

EDMIX

Member
Apr 5, 2018
5,155
4,189
565
33
South Florida aka Outer Haven
Hiring 760+ employees in multiple studios. Really shitty way to scam money when you're spending all of it. But I don't expect the average gaffer to think that far ahead.

Look, I don't think Star Citizen is a scam, but I do believe the game development is in some trouble. and fyi one could still scam people by even hiring the 760 developers and give the appearance that they are not just randomly using some of the millions for themselves.

That being said, I don't feel this game needed to be developed across 3 fucking generations..... at this point its even a question if this game will release during the NEXT GEN Cycle....
 

iHaunter

Member
Sep 6, 2015
2,413
2,158
550
Look, I don't think Star Citizen is a scam, but I do believe the game development is in some trouble. and fyi one could still scam people by even hiring the 760 developers and give the appearance that they are not just randomly using some of the millions for themselves.

That being said, I don't feel this game needed to be developed across 3 fucking generations..... at this point its even a question if this game will release during the NEXT GEN Cycle....

If they had that money right away and the dev team at the start, I agree with you. They only had a couple of years with those resources. I don't disagree it was mismanaged.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EDMIX

ShadowNate

Member
Dec 2, 2013
257
300
570
OK, so when do they plan to release the S42?

At the moment I mean.
Last official word was third quarter of 2020 for beta release (to which it was already pushed back from 2nd quarter). Whatever that means we should have a solid sample of it, of how it looks like, how it plays and performs, what is its story, its NPC AI, flight, combat and other mechanics. Complete mechanics and game loops that is. No pre alpha tier 0 excuse crap.

Afaik there is no official word about them missing this deadline, other than you know, the roadmap to a roadmap being a telltale.
 
Last edited:

Darkmakaimura

Member
Dec 12, 2008
15,764
7,233
1,625
Y'all gonna be collecting SSR before this game is completed.

Tom Hanks character in Green Mile wouldn't be alive long enough to see it done ffs.
 

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
818
971
365
Last official word was third quarter of 2020 for beta release (to which it was already pushed back from 2nd quarter). Whatever that means we should have a solid sample of it, of how it looks like, how it plays and performs, what is its story, its NPC AI, flight, combat and other mechanics. Complete mechanics and game loops that is. No pre alpha tier 0 excuse crap.

Afaik there is no official word about them missing this deadline, other than you know, the roadmap to a roadmap being a telltale.

"Q3 2020" - so that would mean "within the next two weeks"? Interesting if true...
 

IShowUBasics

Member
Feb 20, 2017
100
166
340
Funny how having employees somehow "proofs" its not a scam. You guys know that the people that are getting scammed arent the developers but the backers, right? The facts are that after many years there is a buggy mess with still barely any progress and no real gameplay loop. CR giving all of his relatives top positions in the company without ANY qualifications is proof enough for it to be a scam.
 

Dr.Morris79

Member
Nov 19, 2018
1,809
2,734
440
Essex
I would love to see what those people are actually doing. Like in what departments they are working. And how many of them are actually making that game and how many are in pr, hr, finances, marketing, accountancy etc.
It takes a lot of people to hide a lot of money I guess.
 

MadYarpen

Member
Nov 12, 2015
1,588
746
620
Warsaw, Poland
Nothing official. If you trust insiders, q2 2021
Last official word was third quarter of 2020 for beta release (to which it was already pushed back from 2nd quarter). Whatever that means we should have a solid sample of it, of how it looks like, how it plays and performs, what is its story, its NPC AI, flight, combat and other mechanics. Complete mechanics and game loops that is. No pre alpha tier 0 excuse crap.

Afaik there is no official word about them missing this deadline, other than you know, the roadmap to a roadmap being a telltale.


Thanks. Regardless of anything I will be happy if it is released.
 

ShadowNate

Member
Dec 2, 2013
257
300
570
Thanks. Regardless of anything I will be happy if it is released.
I'll be happy too. Some closure to this mess would be nice to have whatever the outcome.

And if it's good then I'll buy it for the right price (for my wallet and standards).

I don't think there's any way of them honoring this official deadline though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MadYarpen

Tfault

Member
May 26, 2013
305
34
495
I would love to see what those people are actually doing. Like in what departments they are working. And how many of them are actually making that game and how many are in pr, hr, finances, marketing, accountancy etc.

Edit - Wrong one

Edit 2

Interesting to note

Employee numbers increased again in 2018 but the growth has slowed compared to prior years, up only 57 in total on 2017 numbers. Also, much of this increase was in the marketing and publishing disciplines, with additional recruitment into general and admin, with development only increasing in the rest of the world. This reflects the consolidation and increasing maturity of Cloud Imperium’s operations with a growing marketing and publishing activity.
 
Last edited:

magaman

Banned
Oct 19, 2017
546
998
360
There's a lot of salt going around in this thread. I'd say the majority of which comes from people who haven't played a single minute of the game. I was a naysayer until recently.

I played it during the free fly and can safely say that I had some of the coolest moments I've EVER had in gaming. If they pull this off, this WILL be my GOAT.
 

Snake29

Member
Jul 30, 2013
1,948
2,414
635
The Netherlands
There's a lot of salt going around in this thread. I'd say the majority of which comes from people who haven't played a single minute of the game. I was a naysayer until recently.

I played it during the free fly and can safely say that I had some of the coolest moments I've EVER had in gaming. If they pull this off, this WILL be my GOAT.

Funny that i also have the same experience with SC and DayZ. That last one is also a game that got a propper release after almost 10 years. I had some of the best moments in gaming in DayZ, and look...it was never finished when i was playing it, and it had a lot of bugs.
 

magaman

Banned
Oct 19, 2017
546
998
360
Funny that i also have the same experience with SC and DayZ. That last one is also a game that got a propper release after almost 10 years. I had some of the best moments in gaming in DayZ, and look...it was never finished when i was playing it, and it had a lot of bugs.

It's a little ironic that seemingly half of the game that come out nowadays are in "Game Preview" or early access. Everyone seems cool with this, and cool with the fact the incomplete games are in active development.

Somehow SC gets the scarlet letter and is branded a scam.

To those who say that: Why? Have you played it? Are you aware the game is in active development? It's not like this title has gone dark with zero updates in months. They literally have 3-4 updates per week. Saying "it's not coming fast enough" is not a reasonable reason to cry.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Snake29

Snake29

Member
Jul 30, 2013
1,948
2,414
635
The Netherlands
It's a little ironic that seemingly half of the game that come out nowadays are in "Game Preview" or early access. Everyone seems cool with this, and cool with the fact the incomplete games are in active development.

Somehow SC gets the scarlet letter and is branded a scam.

To those who say that: Why? Have you played it? Are you aware the game is in active development? It's not like this title has gone dark with zero updates in months. They literally have 3-4 updates per week. Saying "it's not coming fast enough" is not a reasonable reason to cry.

Even now...Evocati started for Alpha 3.11 last night, and i'm going to update the evocati build after work (in 1 hour for me), and check and test the first new features and testing focus.
 

ShadowNate

Member
Dec 2, 2013
257
300
570
To those who say that: Why? Have you played it? Are you aware the game is in active development? It's not like this title has gone dark with zero updates in months. They literally have 3-4 updates per week. Saying "it's not coming fast enough" is not a reasonable reason to cry.
I've played it back when I was a backer. I no longer am. The project is crowdfunded, which means I supported it originally and expected them to honor that trust; they didn't. Instead they expanded the scope to unmanageable levels, kept releasing ship videos, missed all the deadlines they set, kept largely ignoring SQ42 and kept pushing it back for years, sold land on their planets, and used the pre-alpha excuse to dodge criticism.

I cannot in good consciousness support their crappy project and their marketing practices. Also, I strongly believe now that it is a scam.

So it's not "it's not coming fast enough" that's the complaint. It is "it is a mismanaged perpetual crowd funded project, that broke the trust with (many of) its backers, with lies, macro-transactions and huge delays, way - way overdue according to their own words and old (missed) deadlines, missing most of the promised features, having few game loops that are very bare bones, and under-delivering tier-0 implementations".

I also seriously doubt there's some design document leading the development. It's just "here's a bunch of stuff we threw against a wall, now let's focus on this particular bartender AI".

See, it's a bunch of stuff that's wrong, and none of that is that I want it rushed out the door.

Generally keep anything Star Citizen at arm's length myself, but what is Squadron 42? Is it like a bite sized version of Star Citizen that supposed to be fully releasing soon?
It is a campaign, single player (and also supposedly have some missions supporting co-op). Basically think of it as something closer to a new Privateer or Freelancer. It's the one that will feature all the big name actors they advertised and Chris Roberts huge script that he once threw on-stage.

No one really knows how big it's going to be. Or what exactly will be released first from it. They already have talked about sequels / additional chapters (that some early backers already "own"), they have said they would release a prelude or the prologue.

It's as you would expect from this project a mess and mist of promises and thin air.
 
Oct 5, 2013
2,680
276
560
That being said, I don't feel this game needed to be developed across 3 fucking generations..... at this point its even a question if this game will release during the NEXT GEN Cycle....
I like how you are measuring time in console generations as if that is relevant to Star Citizen backers or PC gamers in general. Look at the bright side, that's one bit of scope creep they managed to avoid, wasting time on console devkits.
 

EDMIX

Member
Apr 5, 2018
5,155
4,189
565
33
South Florida aka Outer Haven
I like how you are measuring time in console generations as if that is relevant to Star Citizen backers or PC gamers in general. Look at the bright side, that's one bit of scope creep they managed to avoid, wasting time on console devkits.

Yet wasting time of backers.....

When a game fucking starts development in 2011 and they still don't have a release window, its time start worrying. I only bring up generations because when this game was announced, they made a big deal that it just couldn't work on consoles (at the time being PS3 and 360).


So I only bring up generations because of that statement as....well the argument that it couldn't work on current gen systems at that time has become pretty funny if you now consider just how many generations have now past waiting for it to release......
 
Oct 5, 2013
2,680
276
560
Yet wasting time of backers.....

When a game fucking starts development in 2011 and they still don't have a release window, its time start worrying. I only bring up generations because when this game was announced, they made a big deal that it just couldn't work on consoles (at the time being PS3 and 360).


So I only bring up generations because of that statement as....well the argument that it couldn't work on current gen systems at that time has become pretty funny if you now consider just how many generations have now past waiting for it to release......
Ahh ok, got it, so you're a console warrior carrying a grudge because he said PC was more capable than PS4 ahead of its release. Well, we backers are very grateful for all your concern. PS5 looks like it's going to be a pretty nice machine all things considered, enjoy!
 
  • LOL
Reactions: EDMIX

EDMIX

Member
Apr 5, 2018
5,155
4,189
565
33
South Florida aka Outer Haven
Ahh ok, got it, so you're a console warrior carrying a grudge because he said PC was more capable than PS4 ahead of its release. Well, we backers are very grateful for all your concern. PS5 looks like it's going to be a pretty nice machine all things considered, enjoy!

? huh? I own both console and a gaming PC. I literally backed Star Citizen.

smh. Jumping the gun and projecting waaaaaaaay too much.

The comments regarding console at the time where only about PS3 and 360 cause PS4 and XONE were not even announced yet. So the joke is simply that its taken so long for the game to release, that tidbit is irrelevant at this point. Has nothing to do with PC vs Console as I own both, simply talking about the remarks from the developer and the irony of how long its been in development and feature creep etc. Not even sure how you got to this whole "console warrior carrying a grudge" lol.
 
Last edited:

TTOOLL

Member
Mar 22, 2012
4,645
4,240
960
What if this game is a big laundering scheme? I just thought about it the other day. It would be amazing.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: EDMIX