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Star Ocean 5 : Integrity and Faithlessness - Import Impressions
- Thread starter Parakeetman
- Start date
One should be aware that this never meant he did detailed stories for each game. The credit for the original Tales of Phantasia on SFC was the same, but the story essentially evolved during development as "anything goes" with little documentation according to Inagaki. SO5 also had plenty scenario work outsourced if the staff listing is any indication.
I like the sound of that. SO3 and SO4 had their good points, but to me they never felt like what I was hoping a sequel to SO2 would be like.
Reading the impressions the length doesn't seem to be the issue. I'm still looking forward to it though, it sounds like a good Star Ocean game unlike 4. Or at least we're spared anything resembling that thanks to the presentation of the cut-scenes.
This is some great info.
I always felt like SO4 just had so much unnecessary bloat. overstayed its' welcome, for sure.
Freyjadour
Member
I can think of plenty that weren't that, and that's ignoring gameplay value.
Anyway, original point standing that a cutscene format that appears to subdue or lessen the trope-y-ness of a JRPG is a selling point personally.
So the consensus is the game is "short", which I don't have a problem with. I'd rather play something 20 hours long that keeps me hooked the entire time than a 40 hour game with a ton of filler to slog though.
What will be a deal breaker for me is if there is any post-game content that I can tackle after completing the main story scenario. Are there any hard mode dungeons that I can power my characters up for?
What will be a deal breaker for me is if there is any post-game content that I can tackle after completing the main story scenario. Are there any hard mode dungeons that I can power my characters up for?
Got bored of farming the board quests and decided to finish the game, might have farmed too much at the end cause everything was easy, party was around LVL85~ final boss never killed someone and I just stood there spam casting with Fiore.
Really enjoyed that game, a bit short, not a perfect SO but a good one imo.
Really enjoyed that game, a bit short, not a perfect SO but a good one imo.
AlphaDragoon
Member
We don't talk about PSP SO2 Rena.
Anyway, glad to hear this game is good. Looking forward to playing it when it come out here, especially since Tales games have let me down ever the Graces-style games became the main direction.
Holy shit at the brain dead AI. Just entered some portal on the plains and got to the boss. It has a death ray that has a huge wind up, each time it targeted a party member they just stood there and got hit. In some cases Fiore/Lilla (both casters) ran into melee range straight into the beam. It got so bad I just left Lilla dead and had to baby the rest of the party, frantically switching character to move them out of harms way.
This highlighted another issue, you are stuck in place until whatever action the other character was doing finishes when you change character. In the above fight that meant some times switching to a character that was mid attack and about to get blasted. Nothing I could do to move till the overly flashy attack finished.
I can see this being a huge issue later on in the game.
This highlighted another issue, you are stuck in place until whatever action the other character was doing finishes when you change character. In the above fight that meant some times switching to a character that was mid attack and about to get blasted. Nothing I could do to move till the overly flashy attack finished.
I can see this being a huge issue later on in the game.
TheSpoiler
Member
Are there difficulty options.
yes
When you clear the game, you unlock 2 new difficulty UNIVERSE and CHAOS for a new game. The game then flag your save with ★★ instead of ☆☆. If you load that save, you're at your last save point, so just before the last boss if you saved before it, you can backtrack and teleport back to the ship.
On the ship fast travel screen, there's a new option for a new hidden dungeon "cave of trials". You also unlock a new party skill after clearing the game, it cost 10,000SP and from what I read, it unlocks the max level from 99 to 255. (I've not done any of this yet so I can't confirm 100%).
I'm not sure if that cave of trials is hard, will try it later, have to take a break for now.
The characters in this game are actually kind of charming. Like I thought Miki would be a little annoying but she's bubbly without being obnoxious so far and her Private Actions are kinda funny to watch play out.
So far it's basically a Star Ocean game, for better or worse. Like the combat is pretty spammy and I assume there'll be a lot of reliance on Item Creation and other abilities to mix things up as usual, though I haven't played around with it enough to have a strong option on this game's IC system.
I agree with Aeana and others that the reduced number of cinematic cutscenes gives the game a more old school vibe, and maybe that's part of why the game feels more like 1 or 2 than 3 or 4 in many ways to me. At times it feels like a modern Japanese RPG with some of the same sensibilities towards presentation you'd see in an SNES or PS1-era game. Having a story scene start and end so seamlessly without any CG, cutscene loading, or other frills and delays you'll often see nowadays is pretty nice and does feel like a more natural continuation of how things used to be done in many older RPGs, even if it's partly a result of resource limitations.
So far it's basically a Star Ocean game, for better or worse. Like the combat is pretty spammy and I assume there'll be a lot of reliance on Item Creation and other abilities to mix things up as usual, though I haven't played around with it enough to have a strong option on this game's IC system.
I agree with Aeana and others that the reduced number of cinematic cutscenes gives the game a more old school vibe, and maybe that's part of why the game feels more like 1 or 2 than 3 or 4 in many ways to me. At times it feels like a modern Japanese RPG with some of the same sensibilities towards presentation you'd see in an SNES or PS1-era game. Having a story scene start and end so seamlessly without any CG, cutscene loading, or other frills and delays you'll often see nowadays is pretty nice and does feel like a more natural continuation of how things used to be done in many older RPGs, even if it's partly a result of resource limitations.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
with this being out of the way will most def not want anything to do with going through it again or bothering with that cave.
characters and voicework aside for being good id have to put this in a special seat right next to 4.
characters and voicework aside for being good id have to put this in a special seat right next to 4.
Nah Aeana is right. Blindside is an unnecessary gimmick that disrupted the real-time flow and in worst cases, (i.e. badly-designed boss fights) forces you to play a certain way. I also find Rush mode pretty one-dimensional but it's not as bad as Blindside.
Regarding SO5, the recycling of assets and backtracking is disappointing but I survived Xillia 2 (ended liking it best after Graces F) so I think I'm okay here. What's most important to me is the combat and I'm hoping it's better than SO4 at least. I count the absence of cutscenes a blessing since my IQ actually dropped after watching those in SO4.
I don't think that people really understand what the "lack of cutscenes" means.
It's not like characters don't talk. It's just that conversations would normally happen after transitions to a different camera angle now happen with characters just standing/slowly walking and talking. It's not that the game is lacking in dialogue during which you can't do anything, far from it. Just a difference of the point of view.
In this case "disrupting the real-time flow" means "hitting buttons besides your triggers" and I don't see how that's a bad thing.
Rush Mode makes the enemy immune to stagger, but Blindside counteracts this. Rush Mode making your party immune to stagger means they can Blindside enemies that would normally knock them out of the animation. They work very well together.
Unfortunately the whole thing kind of falls apart due to bad balance. Things like Meracle's Blindside animation and X-Claw just kind of break the whole system, but the base concept is fine. Rush Combos are a totally different thing. They're pretty boring and seem very tacked on, but I understand they were supposed to create a choice between doing a lot of damage through the combo or enjoying the benefits of Rush Mode. Unfortunately it has its own balance issues due to +Rush Gauge factors.
Not really sure what boss fights you're talking about since the only boss fight it's "necessary" for is Armaros Manifest because that's they way you expose her weak point.
I agree with Aeana that it wouldn't work in another game, since they're not designed with it in mind, but it's pretty important to SO4's system. Without it there would literally be nothing to do during battle except spam attacks.
Nothing1016
Member
How does SO5 compare to SO3 and SO4? Better? Worse?
Loved Till the End of Time
Hated The Last Hope
Loved Till the End of Time
Hated The Last Hope
Watched a video of the final post game boss on Youtube.
Apparently one of the roles makes you completely invincible at the cost of rapidly losing your HP. As long as you keep healing, nothing can touch you. JRPG balance strikes again.
Also, the models of the post game super bosses look ripped right out of SO4. They even use exact same abilities.
Apparently one of the roles makes you completely invincible at the cost of rapidly losing your HP. As long as you keep healing, nothing can touch you. JRPG balance strikes again.
Also, the models of the post game super bosses look ripped right out of SO4. They even use exact same abilities.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
yeah thats the deadman role takes a while to get tho
Yeah, you get that role for getting Necromancer high enough iirc.
Now that I think about it, since my Miki could spam the biggest group heal for ages, if I put that role on her, I'd have an immortal healer. My only worry was that some attack/combo would 1 hit KO me, but with that role it wouldn't happen.
Oh well.
The lack of balance is the best thing about these games
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
lv3 for necro
Regarding "balance", I feel that arguing for absolute balance is detrimental to any game system, but ignoring the importance of balance is also a terrible idea. Ideally, what I want most out of game systems is the courage to innovate and present interesting mechanics, without feeling defective.
Many people tend to misunderstand balance imo. If the game systems can be broken via min/max, that isn't necessarily poor game balance, but rather a sign of systems designed to give the player the freedom to exploit. I don't feel that balancing a game tightly around min/max is ever a good idea because you end up with very functional but boring systems built entirely around mathematical tuning.
On the other hand, it is absolutely necessary for game systems to be well balanced for low-level and "default" play. A game without proper challenge that feels satisfying is letting down the potential of the game systems. If the player has no need to experiment and explore the potential of the game systems to progress, many won't bother. On the other hand if the challenge curve is too high and feels overwhelming, it also means the game systems are not being explained well enough and many players could give up without ever seeing their true potential.
In general I feel that games like Sakura Taisen tend to fall on the "too easy" end of the spectrum, while games like Resonance of Fate fall on the "too oblique" end. Many older dungeon crawlers and Dragon Quest games fall in the "too well balanced around min/max" category. I'm not saying these are bad games, I love all of those mentioned here, but it's important to recognize how balance can impact the game experience.
Many people tend to misunderstand balance imo. If the game systems can be broken via min/max, that isn't necessarily poor game balance, but rather a sign of systems designed to give the player the freedom to exploit. I don't feel that balancing a game tightly around min/max is ever a good idea because you end up with very functional but boring systems built entirely around mathematical tuning.
On the other hand, it is absolutely necessary for game systems to be well balanced for low-level and "default" play. A game without proper challenge that feels satisfying is letting down the potential of the game systems. If the player has no need to experiment and explore the potential of the game systems to progress, many won't bother. On the other hand if the challenge curve is too high and feels overwhelming, it also means the game systems are not being explained well enough and many players could give up without ever seeing their true potential.
In general I feel that games like Sakura Taisen tend to fall on the "too easy" end of the spectrum, while games like Resonance of Fate fall on the "too oblique" end. Many older dungeon crawlers and Dragon Quest games fall in the "too well balanced around min/max" category. I'm not saying these are bad games, I love all of those mentioned here, but it's important to recognize how balance can impact the game experience.
There's really nothing exciting about a totally invincible party. It's nothing we haven't seen before though, and I pretty much agree with duckroll's post. The option is there for those who want to abuse it.
I personally find such things makes games like this fairly boring, so I'll just ignore the outright broken stuff as I usually do. It's single player, you can craft the experience how ever you want it.
Plenty after the ps2 era?
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Guess I'll have to try it out for myself. I too was thinking in some ways it might be like an older JRPG in that regard, but I wish they went ahead with dialogue boxes and portrait art as well if they were gonna minimize cutscenes.
Oh well.
encephalon
Member
Another
Might as well take a break and go do something else until it's over. Why devote so much time to this kind of cutscene if you're not going to do it properly? I guess they probably planned to, originally, but ...
I have a feeling that the promise to touch upon SO3's plot twist and "better explain it" or whatever they said isn't going to be addressed by this anemic story.
ship battle that consists entirely of yelling at screens.
I have a feeling that the promise to touch upon SO3's plot twist and "better explain it" or whatever they said isn't going to be addressed by this anemic story.
Many Atlus RPGs, particularly SMT, are rather tiring for this reason. You spend more time min/maxing than anything else. It can get rather tedious. It doesn't help that there are certain "hidden" game mechanics in the Min/Max scheme the game never tells you about either, which can really screw you up!
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
The interesting thing about star ocean(s) is that, despite bing able to break it, the post game dungeon ends up kicking your ass regardless. I do understand that having 99% of the game be easy isn't optimal but that's the appeal of this series. If you want to exploit the games system, it's there if you're persistent.
Tetsuo9999
Member
I saw my friend sit through that. At one point he got up and did something else while it was playing out. It was a lot like the old Star Trek episodes where they'd barely show the attacking ship since they didn't have the budget for it. While the language barrier makes those cutscenes lose some value, they probably aren't to interesting regardless.
Vincent Grayson
Member
I'd go the opposite. I much prefer when a game is on the easier side and full of potential options, because it means I feel much more free to experiment with different builds, including things I find to be more fun than say, the optimal build.
When a game skews harder, it almost always ends up feeling like no matter how many options you have, one or two are objectively better, and in a challenging game, the best way to go if you don't want to be frustrated.
For example, Diablo 3 at launch basically required playing defensively if you ever wanted to fight at the highest levels. Eventually, they balanced it out a lot better, and made it so you could build your character basically however you want, and still do the endgame content. Sure, building "right" is still a thing, and necessary for the highest level GRs and such, but you can play the whole game as you please and still get access to the best items.
One if the reason i didn't like SO4 is because it was way too easy to broke, get HP book, level 10 it and equip... and done no more challenge for the rest of the story line, happen in the first 4-5 hours.
At least in SO3 it was much harder and time consuming to make a OP weapon at the start.
I'm pretty sad we can't play Chaos from the start that would have make me less sad about breaking the difficulty... if this is as easy as previous entry.
At least in SO3 it was much harder and time consuming to make a OP weapon at the start.
I'm pretty sad we can't play Chaos from the start that would have make me less sad about breaking the difficulty... if this is as easy as previous entry.
Sir Griffith
Member
It might of been in other SOs as well, but this was an effect that Bloody armor had on your character in SO2. It dropped off of undead knights in mid-late game and was pretty broken. I remember it being my main tactic for beating Indalicio
So like Portal 2?
encephalon
Member
"Barely" would be a huge upgrade lol. The worst part is it's not skippable. It's not a "cutscene' cutscene. The second one goes on forever and ever. I'm sitting through it for the second time, because I needed to go back and do more preparations.
These cutscenes aren't terribly hard to follow, they're just dull.
This game is going to be ripped to shreds once it gets released overseas.
It's not about skewing on the easier side, it's about difficulty not giving the mechanics a proper chance to shine. Therein lies the balance. It's fine to have an easier game which is more forgiving to encourage the player to find the best way they want to play the game. The disappointment is when the player doesn't really feel that there is much point in trying different things because there isn't enough challenge to make it worth their while.
For example, you could have a great critical hit system which encourages and rewards proper positioning in combat. But if the balance is such that a normal attack kills most regular enemies, and critical attacks don't amount to much meaningful combat advantage at all, the good design in the system itself is wasted because the balance fails to allow it to shine.
On either side of the difficulty scale, challenge is subjective to taste. The flaw is when it scales too far on either end to the detriment of the player getting the most out of the systems.
encephalon
Member
When
Miki dies within the first 3 seconds, every time. In fact, almost all of the characters die immediately. And if I revive someone, they just die immediately after. Just what is this difficulty jump?
boarding the enemy ship
GoodMorningPluto
Member
Can anyone tell whether Welch is recruitable or not? I loved slapping enemies with giant hand-stick in remakes.
Just checked out the seamless dialogue on YouTube and I'm totally okay with, I'm currently playing Tales of Zestiria & they employ a similar technique at points for having the characters communicate outside of cutscenes.
My main question for SO5 is how does the combat feel with 7 characters in play, is it too chaotic or is it setup in a way that makes it make sense?
My main question for SO5 is how does the combat feel with 7 characters in play, is it too chaotic or is it setup in a way that makes it make sense?
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
It just becomes a mess of effects going off.
Though the AI does not exactly seem to be smart enough to properly avoid AOEs and such.
Thankfully you can switch around who you are controlling with the Dpad allowing you to attempt to move the lower HP ones out of the way.
One thing for sure is with how the whole Reserve Rush gauge works you are better off using Fiore, Miki or Emmerson as since less chance of getting cheap shotted by the enemy lowering the bonus ratings. Not to mention it seems to be a bit random in regards to when attacks from the enemy actually lower the gauge or not. That is if you are concerned about the bonus %ages the gauge gives that is. Otherwise using whoever while in battle does not matter.
In regards to using other characters though the game is a bit stupid in the design sense of constantly switching back to the MC after battle, so there are occasions where the game will cause odd issues such as the non-mc selected character in battle starting outside of the combat area (blue ring) which depending can cause you to escape from battle instead. Though a lot of the times the AI will generally be close enough so you can run into the combat zone, cancelling the escape effect. Though there are very rare occasions where the selected character the AI got caught up behind an object on the map and if combat takes place on a different height level from where the selected character is, it will make it appear as if you fell through the world. Have only had this happen 3 times in a cave area. So its something that is situational and not really to be worried about. Plus the game is quite stable and not a single crash yet.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Also in regards to the combat for a single character you can have up to 4 skills. Though they are separated by Long / Short + X & O buttons. Pushing and holding the X or O button is what will activate the skill + depending on your distance from target. With the 6 characters x 4 skills (2 long / 2 short) = 24 skills for use. The "7th" character Relia the player is unable to directly control her which is why Im saying 6 characters.
New skills are gained through skill books. Some can be found, gained through quest rewards or crafted. Though the skill to craft written materials
does not appear till way later in the game.
They way they designed combat was they expect the player to go switching around to other characters to make use of everyones skills. Which can be done manually if you set all the characters to "manual" in battle. Dont remember what the exact button was, but might have been down on the D pad or something simple like that. Left and Right dpad switches to other characters.
Problem is that with how long some animations take and how the enemy does move around a lot, depending on who the character is you might miss the attack making the idea while nice on paper a bit less useful in game.
For the most part too outside of bosses, you wont be facing off on enemies so strong that you would have the chance to mess around like that anyways. Even then just taking control of a single character is enough to deal with the bosses in the normal part of the game.
Not my footage but shows combat with a full party @ 2 hours in to the game according to their in game timer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us3U4nP57I8
Also forgot to include that you can perform a "cancel bonus" or whatever the name is, which increases damage by 25% each time up till a max of 200% I do believe. To perform this you just need to time the next attack or special just as the previous one ends. Not exactly sure on what the precise timing is, but its not a hard system to figure out for yourself. Works for both normal attacks and special attacks with O / X. There is a fairly decent increase in damage too if you use this system, so its a good idea to keep that in mind.