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[Walshicus]

I put Voyager over Enterprise because there's two Voyager episodes ("Timeless" and "Living Witness") that I can say "These are some of the best episodes of the franchise". Enterprise, even at it's best, never hit that level. Season 4 was good, but I have to be honest in saying it was good because expectations were so low due to what had come before. They were entertaining episodes, but they were not the top tier Trek episodes.

Hmm, I disagree. While both series have utterly offensive episodes - Tuvix versus Dear Doctor - Voyager's were consistently below par, while Enterprise was only at times boring in series 1 and 2, but generally fun in series 3 and 4.

Plus Janeway's fucking "Pecaaaaaaahn pie" accent.

 

[Htown]

Hmm, I disagree. While both series have utterly offensive episodes - Tuvix versus Dear Doctor - Voyager's were consistently below par, while Enterprise was only at times boring in series 1 and 2, but generally fun in series 3 and 4.

Plus Janeway's fucking "Pecaaaaaaahn pie" accent.

Much as I loved Enterprise, there is a long freaking stretch of season 2 that is just complete garbage, and too much of season one was taken up with standard episodes that could have been swapped with literally any other Trek series. That said, yeah, I'd put it above Voyager personally.

 

[WanderingWind]

Hmm, I disagree. While both series have utterly offensive episodes - Tuvix versus Dear Doctor - Voyager's were consistently below par, while Enterprise was only at times boring in series 1 and 2, but generally fun in series 3 and 4.

Plus Janeway's fucking "Pecaaaaaaahn pie" accent.

Voyager had an excellent episode with a resolution that I've been dying to see in Star Trek. It's the one where the aliens find a Voyager crewmember corpse and their DNA proves they evolved from dinosaurs or some shit. What was important about that episode, to me, is that Chakotay made an impassioned speech at the end, urging the alien race to accept the truth of their history. It was eloquent and truthfully and powerful.

And the aliens just did not give a fuck. The heroes lost.

 

[NumberTwo]

How would you guys rate the opening title music of each series? I just watched the Voyager pilot for the first time and while I'm not impressed so far, it has the best theme out of all the series if I must say so my self. A truly moving orchestral piece. If I had to rank them:


Voyager
DS9
TNG
Original Series
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Enterprise. Who in their right mind found that appealing? So bad. SO BAD.

 

[Xamdou]

So what exact day/month are they going to add DS9? Will it be in HD?

Also DS9 intro music is my favorite!

 

[jarosh]

i know ds9 is not up on netflix so you guys aren't watching it right now, but i just wanted to post this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0JERFeGv64

 

[DrForester]

Worst part about Enterpise spng was that it wasn't even an original song. It was written for the "Patch Adams" film.

My order for songs

DS9
TNG
VOY

Honestly close between those 3.

TOS
Enterprise (mirror )
Enterprise

 

[An-Det]

I'm watching Natural Law right now (Voyager 7.22), so I'll finish the series by the end of the night. It is strange to think I am about done with all 7 seasons (14 total so far). Up next will be Deep Space 9.

How would you guys rate the opening title music of each series? I just watched the Voyager pilot for the first time and while I'm not impressed so far, it has the best theme out of all the series if I must say so my self. A truly moving orchestral piece. If I had to rank them:

I agree that the Voyager one is fantastic, having an orchestral piece like in the movies was awesome. I havent seen DS9 yet though, so I cant comment on that intro. I liked the original Enterprise intro, though it didn't quite fit for the show, but the one used for later seasons was shitty. The Enterprise Mirror intro was pretty good though.

 

[Escape Goat]

In the context of the show why was Troi on the bridge just hanging out? Shouldn't she be in her office helping these people live in a utopia? Such hard lives probably left the crew with severe psychoses and derangements.

I guess she took after McCoy. The doctor who would rather hang out with his friend on the bridge than remain at his post.

 

[beelzebozo]

In the context of the show why was Troi on the bridge just hanging out? Shouldn't she be in her office helping these people live in a utopia? Such hard lives probably left the crew with severe psychoses and derangements.

I guess she took after McCoy. The doctor who would rather hang out with his friend on the bridge than remain at his post.

she wasn't much, was she? but i think when she was, it was sort of as a clairvoyant advisor to picard, who valued her judgment very much when encountering a species with which it was not super easy to communicate (e.g., when an alien could not be understand in speech or action, she would relay that it was scared)

 

[The Librarian]

Voyager's intro music was absolutely fantastic. But that's Jerry Goldsmith for ya.

 

[Cheerilee]

In the context of the show why was Troi on the bridge just hanging out? Shouldn't she be in her office helping these people live in a utopia? Such hard lives probably left the crew with severe psychoses and derangements.

I guess she took after McCoy. The doctor who would rather hang out with his friend on the bridge than remain at his post.

Picard uses her as a tool on the bridge in order to cheat in ship-to-ship negotiations. Devinoni Ral (the quarter-Betazoid Human in "The Price", the episode where they were bidding on the wormhole) told her that after she accused him of cheating in his business negotiations. And she changed nothing about how she conducts herself. The thief with the stolen time pod referred to Troi as "Picard's empath", which suggests that that's how history is going to view her. And knowing that, she still changed nothing.

McCoy was just a boss. When his staff has the situation in hand, he does whatever on the ship he happens to feel like doing.

And the mass-neutering required for utopia apparently leaves anyone who isn't awesome with self-esteem issues and feelings of inadequacy. And they've been taught to respond to those feelings not by manning up and becoming more like Riker or Worf, but by scheduling a long talk with Troi and becoming even bigger pussies, like Troi.

 

[An-Det]

Finished Voyager. Overall worth the watch, there was a lot of great stuff. Also a lot of chaff, but not as much as I had feared. My opinion on the characters hasn't changed, but my respect for Robert Picardo has definitely gone up for really bringing the Doctor to life, perhaps moreso than Spiner did for Data as a new lifeform discovering it's humanity. Also, he pulls some Matrix shit in Renaissance Man (7.24), which was sweet to see.

 

[Escape Goat]

Picard uses her as a tool on the bridge in order to cheat in ship-to-ship negotiations. Devinoni Ral (the quarter-Betazoid Human in "The Price", the episode where they were bidding on the wormhole) told her that after she accused him of cheating in his business negotiations. And she changed nothing about how she conducts herself. The thief with the stolen time pod referred to Troi as "Picard's empath", which suggests that that's how history is going to view her. And knowing that, she still changed nothing.

McCoy was just a boss. When his staff has the situation in hand, he does whatever on the ship he happens to feel like doing.

And the mass-neutering required for utopia apparently leaves anyone who isn't awesome with self-esteem issues and feelings of inadequacy. And they've been taught to respond to those feelings not by manning up and becoming more like Riker or Worf, but by scheduling a long talk with Troi and becoming even bigger pussies, like Troi.

Well, I don't think that warrants a seat in the command center. Sitting there playing Farmville until once a month she had to to advise Picard. She usually just stated the obvious "I sense how angry you are." No shit, counselor? Did the shouting and yelling tip you off? Writers sucked pretty hard sometimes.

But I really think Starfleet wanted breasts on deck.

 

[ErasureAcer]

woooo. subscribed to netflix today. watched Star Trek 2009 as I've never seen it. Was alright. Anyhow I'm a big TNG ans DS9 fan having owned both at one point. So its nice to have them back. =) Never seen TOS or Voyager tho. Which should I watch first? Think I'll skip Enterprise.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

I'm largely avoiding the thread because my wife and I are starting the franchise (almost) from scratch. We're 5 episodes into TOS, and it holds up fairly well, if you keep an open mind (I guess that's kind of a nothing statement). I'm pretty familiar with the tropes and techniques that the show helped pioneer, but I still appreciate seeing them in their original form.

Anyway, my question is about the movies. If we're going through TOS, TNG, and DS9 (I'll give Voyager a try, but I've started Enterprise before and couldn't handle it), when should we watch which movies? Thanks.

 

[An-Det]

Anyway, my question is about the movies. If we're going through TOS, TNG, and DS9 (I'll give Voyager a try, but I've started Enterprise before and couldn't handle it), when should we watch which movies? Thanks.

The first 6 movies all take place after Kirk's original mission, so finish TOS before watching those. The next 4 ones are TNG, with Generations bridging TNG and TOS and them all taking place after TNG ended, but can all be watched anytime besides First Contact, for which you should watch The Best of Both Worlds (TNG S3 finale) first. ST 2009 chronologically (sort of) takes places after Nemesis and all series', but really can be watched anytime.

 

[DrForester]

The first 6 movies all take place after Kirk's original mission, so finish TOS before watching those. The next 4 ones are TNG, with Generations bridging TNG and TOS and them all taking place after TNG ended, but can all be watched anytime besides First Contact, for which you should watch The Best of Both Worlds (TNG S3 finale) first. ST 2009 chronologically (sort of) takes places after Nemesis and all series', but really can be watched anytime.

Yeah all you need to know about the TNG movies for things to make some sense is that Worf eventually goes to DS9, and Janeway gets promoted when Voyager gets home.

 

[Escape Goat]

I like DS9's own style of Trek fu. It usually consisted of interlacing your fingers and making one big fist and then smashing it upside some battle hardened alien. Then, as he stands stunned for several seconds, deliver another fist punch. Sometimes an open palm bitch punch would stand as the coup de grace.

 

[Cheerilee]

Well, I don't think that warrants a seat in the command center. Sitting there playing Farmville until once a month she had to to advise Picard. She usually just stated the obvious "I sense how angry you are." No shit, counselor? Did the shouting and yelling tip you off? Writers sucked pretty hard sometimes.

But I really think Starfleet wanted breasts on deck.

I think the bridge of the Enterprise-D was largely customizable. Like it doesn't really matter if Wesley sits on the starboard side and Data sits on the port. They could trade seats if they just tweaked a line or two in the computer's config file. Same with all those science and engineering stations in back. They're just remote terminals. Nothing on the Main Bridge is hardwired into anything (that's what the Battle Bridge is for). In that regard, I think Starfleet just had some space available so they gave the Captain three Captain's chairs, and told him he could put some advisers in the other two. I think it was Captain Picard who decided on who gets the third chair (after deciding that the first officer gets the second). He could've had the heads of engineering or tactical or medical beside him, but he wanted some Betazoid psychic advantage. It's a wasted seat most of the time, but it was never an important seat, and on the rare occasion when he really needs her talents, it pays off big.

I can't see official Starfleet policy demanding that the emotional well-being of the ship needs a 24/7 pipeline straight to the Captain's ear. Especially not when Troi isn't even a commissioned officer, and that purpose and more could be handled by a medical adviser.

woooo. subscribed to netflix today. watched Star Trek 2009 as I've never seen it. Was alright. Anyhow I'm a big TNG ans DS9 fan having owned both at one point. So its nice to have them back. =) Never seen TOS or Voyager tho. Which should I watch first? Think I'll skip Enterprise.

I'd definitely watch TOS before Voyager. I support the idea of watching things in the order they were made, or close to it. It helps to put things in the proper context and perspective. No real harm in having watched TNG and DS9, but since you're open to watching the original series, I'd watch that (and all or at least some of the first 6 movies) before moving on with Voyager.

Anyway, my question is about the movies. If we're going through TOS, TNG, and DS9 (I'll give Voyager a try, but I've started Enterprise before and couldn't handle it), when should we watch which movies? Thanks.

First TOS. All of it. And then if you're asking which TOS movies are worth watching, this seems to be the general consensus.

Star Trek: The Motion Picture - Kind of slow and weird, maybe awful, maybe awesome.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn - Must watch.
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock - Not great, but must watch.
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Kind of dated, but must watch.
Star Trek V: The Whatever - Skip.
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - Must watch.

Then watch TNG. Watch TNG movies after TNG, and it doesn't really matter if you mix them with DS9 or Voyager. Just watch every single one the TNG movies. Then watch RedLetterMedia's epic reviews of the TNG movies.

 

[BigDug13]

Watch Star Trek V with Rifftrax.

That is also how I would recommend watching any Twilight movie.

 

[beelzebozo]

"doctor, the sperm whale on earth devours millions of cuttlefish as it roams the oceans. it is not evil--it is feeding.

with all due respect, i would argue the crystalline entity has as much right to be here as we do."


god damn, picard, you boss.

 

[beelzebozo]

lol

what is this

 

[Henchmen21]

I think the bridge of the Enterprise-D was largely customizable. Like it doesn't really matter if Wesley sits on the starboard side and Data sits on the port. They could trade seats if they just tweaked a line or two in the computer's config file. Same with all those science and engineering stations in back. They're just remote terminals. Nothing on the Main Bridge is hardwired into anything (that's what the Battle Bridge is for). In that regard, I think Starfleet just had some space available so they gave the Captain three Captain's chairs, and told him he could put some advisers in the other two. I think it was Captain Picard who decided on who gets the third chair (after deciding that the first officer gets the second). He could've had the heads of engineering or tactical or medical beside him, but he wanted some Betazoid psychic advantage. It's a wasted seat most of the time, but it was never an important seat, and on the rare occasion when he really needs her talents, it pays off big.

I can't see official Starfleet policy demanding that the emotional well-being of the ship needs a 24/7 pipeline straight to the Captain's ear. Especially not when Troi isn't even a commissioned officer, and that purpose and more could be handled by a medical adviser.

Not originally no, but if you remember, by season 7 she took the field officers test and passed so she eventually gained the right to be there.

Plus, Crusher/Pulaski often sat in that chair so you're right about it being multi-use.

 

[AMUSIX]

Quick question about Voyager....


Did they not go through any character writing on the show? I'm in the middle of Season 3, and everything is just so inconsistent it's making the show almost unwatchable.

Three key things for me:

-First episode, she has a choice between going home or violating the prime directive which would also strand her ship AND a ship not under her command in the Delta Quadrant. She chooses to violate the Prime Directive, even though her most trusted advisor is standing right there telling her not to.
But then, noone blames her for putting them in that situation, even though she is wholly responsible.
The worst part is that, despite the fact that she violated the PD because she felt sorry for a weaker species, through most of the rest of the series, she goes on and on about how they HAVE to adhere to Starfleet rules, and how the PD prevents them from capitalizing on so many situations.
Oh, but the moment they find a weaker species being exploited (by two Ferengi) she once again violates the Prime Directive, and, again, completely strands her ship.

It seems that they try to make her a by-the-book Col. Nicholson type, but then whenever she wants, she's violate those sacred starfleet rules. Does she EVER get some consistency?

Many of the crew are the same way as well. I keep hoping the actors will fall into some sort of 'role', but it seems that the show is just a series of one-off episodes, rather than a progressive series.

 

[Escape Goat]

Quick question about Voyager....


Did they not go through any character writing on the show? I'm in the middle of Season 3, and everything is just so inconsistent it's making the show almost unwatchable.

Three key things for me:

-First episode, she has a choice between going home or violating the prime directive which would also strand her ship AND a ship not under her command in the Delta Quadrant. She chooses to violate the Prime Directive, even though her most trusted advisor is standing right there telling her not to.
But then, noone blames her for putting them in that situation, even though she is wholly responsible.
The worst part is that, despite the fact that she violated the PD because she felt sorry for a weaker species, through most of the rest of the series, she goes on and on about how they HAVE to adhere to Starfleet rules, and how the PD prevents them from capitalizing on so many situations.
Oh, but the moment they find a weaker species being exploited (by two Ferengi) she once again violates the Prime Directive, and, again, completely strands her ship.

It seems that they try to make her a by-the-book Col. Nicholson type, but then whenever she wants, she's violate those sacred starfleet rules. Does she EVER get some consistency?

Many of the crew are the same way as well. I keep hoping the actors will fall into some sort of 'role', but it seems that the show is just a series of one-off episodes, rather than a progressive series.

Welcome to Voyager. The writing is 99% crap.

 

[michaeltraps]

Just finished the Voyager episode "Threshold." ... What the hell did I just watch?!

 

[Henchmen21]

Just finished the Voyager episode "Threshold." ... What the hell did I just watch?!

A shitty show written by shitty people?

 

[DrForester]

Just finished the Voyager episode "Threshold." ... What the hell did I just watch?!

The one episode officially un-cannonized by the writers.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Quick question about Voyager....


Did they not go through any character writing on the show? I'm in the middle of Season 3, and everything is just so inconsistent it's making the show almost unwatchable.

Three key things for me:

-First episode, she has a choice between going home or violating the prime directive which would also strand her ship AND a ship not under her command in the Delta Quadrant. She chooses to violate the Prime Directive, even though her most trusted advisor is standing right there telling her not to.
But then, noone blames her for putting them in that situation, even though she is wholly responsible.
The worst part is that, despite the fact that she violated the PD because she felt sorry for a weaker species, through most of the rest of the series, she goes on and on about how they HAVE to adhere to Starfleet rules, and how the PD prevents them from capitalizing on so many situations.
Oh, but the moment they find a weaker species being exploited (by two Ferengi) she once again violates the Prime Directive, and, again, completely strands her ship.

It seems that they try to make her a by-the-book Col. Nicholson type, but then whenever she wants, she's violate those sacred starfleet rules. Does she EVER get some consistency?

Many of the crew are the same way as well. I keep hoping the actors will fall into some sort of 'role', but it seems that the show is just a series of one-off episodes, rather than a progressive series.

You have lot more of this garbage to go through

 

[michaeltraps]

The one episode officially un-cannonized by the writers.

Oh thank God... I can't imagine how that abomination ever made it off of the writer's table.

 

[Escape Goat]

SFDebris.com guy has some new reviews up. I thought he had stopped making them!

 

[The Big Rig]

I finished TNG tonight. Overall, it was a fun time. I skipped some episodes, but I've at least seen all the good ones.

I'll admit, I got a little sad at the end. I guess I like Patrick Stewart a lot.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

On TNG season 2 as well, using the episode guide. When this show is good, it's really good.

Just watch them all.

While i get what dr forester is trying to do to help out those with a passing interesr in star trek by putting together a solid all star watch list. When it comes to The next generation (TNG) , you need to really just watch all the episodes. Unless you only have a year to live and time is precious, sit back and watch some Trek, god knows that even if the franchise comes back to TV, it will never be how it was in TNG.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

What happened to season 1 of TNG on streaming. I think I was part way into the last episode of the season, but now it appears that season 1 is no longer available.

The other seasons should be around a while, right? It take a while to watch these things.

 

[beelzebozo]

i have watched so much TNG lately that i bought an old shirt from 1989.

Just watch them all.

While i get what dr forester is trying to do to help out those with a passing interesr in star trek by putting together a solid all star watch list. When it comes to The next generation (TNG) , you need to really just watch all the episodes. Unless you only have a year to live and time is precious, sit back and watch some Trek, god knows that even if the franchise comes back to TV, it will never be how it was in TNG.

agreed. the show is special, and the only way to really appreciate it fully is to invest the time to watch the whole thing and develop that familiarity and relationship with the characters.

 

[Morn]

Just finished the Voyager episode "Threshold." ... What the hell did I just watch?!

Teleplay By
Brannon Braga

 

[Henchmen21]

Teleplay By
Brannon Braga

Honestly, he should have just written "Cause & Effect" then left.

 

[An-Det]

I'm halfway through DS9 season 1 (watching 1.11 right now), and it's not bad so far. The characters are mostly just there at this point, but I am really enjoying the interaction between Quark and Odo. Going in, I was skeptical of a ferengi main character, since they've been pretty shitty overall in TNG and VOY, but Quark is great. Odo as well, he is pretty cool.

Sisko has surprised me though. Picard and Janeway were relatively composed, so Sisko laughing and being fairly jovial is strange to see. I saw The Captains, so Avery Brooks being sort of out there was expected, but I'm liking it.

 

[elwes]

What happened to season 1 of TNG on streaming. I think I was part way into the last episode of the season, but now it appears that season 1 is no longer available.

The other seasons should be around a while, right? It take a while to watch these things.

They also took away season 7. And I was, literally, 3-4 episodes away from finishing it. This is such pure bullshit...I hate it when they do this. If you're going to put a show on streaming, especially an older show, put all of episodes and seasons on there.

The "write a review" section for ST:TNG on Netflix is inundated with pissed off people. :lol

 

[The Librarian]

I'm halfway through DS9 season 1 (watching 1.11 right now), and it's not bad so far. The characters are mostly just there at this point, but I am really enjoying the interaction between Quark and Odo. Going in, I was skeptical of a ferengi main character, since they've been pretty shitty overall in TNG and VOY, but Quark is great. Odo as well, he is pretty cool.

Sisko has surprised me though. Picard and Janeway were relatively composed, so Sisko laughing and being fairly jovial is strange to see. I saw The Captains, so Avery Brooks being sort of out there was expected, but I'm liking it.

Aside from perhaps TOS S1, DS9 S1 is the best first season of any series because of the first two and last two episodes.

 

[beelzebozo]

if they have seriously pulled any of TNG permanently i will be very upset.

 

[Qwomo]

I put Voyager over Enterprise because there's two Voyager episodes ("Timeless" and "Living Witness") that I can say "These are some of the best episodes of the franchise". Enterprise, even at it's best, never hit that level. Season 4 was good, but I have to be honest in saying it was good because expectations were so low due to what had come before. They were entertaining episodes, but they were not the top tier Trek episodes.

In A Mirror, Darkly would like to have a quiet word with you over here.

 

[DrForester]

In A Mirror, Darkly would like to have a quiet word with you over here.

It was good, but I'd in no way put it with the best of Trek. Like I said, season 4's advantage was the previous 3 seasons to make it look better. There was good stuff there, but nothing great.

 

[TheFatOne]

What happened to the first season of Star Trek The next Generation?

 

[Zenith]

In A Mirror, Darkly would like to have a quiet word with you over here.

Not really, it was just leeching off of TOS's good stuff (Connie, Gorn, Tholians, etc). They spend nearly the entire time being so stupid (apparently that's what "evil" is now) that they thwart their own goals. It's a miracle the ship made it to Tholian space before someone on board set off the self-destruct.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

They also took away season 7. And I was, literally, 3-4 episodes away from finishing it. This is such pure bullshit...I hate it when they do this. If you're going to put a show on streaming, especially an older show, put all of episodes and seasons on there.

The "write a review" section for ST:TNG on Netflix is inundated with pissed off people. :lol

7 is back, so hopefully it was some small issue rather than the seasons being gone for good.

 

[ChoklitReign]

Is STTOS not on Amazon Video? It prominently shows Enterprise, Voyager, and DS9 while TNG is way in the back of search.

 

[An-Det]

I finished DS9 Season 1 this evening, and Dax was right in that the last two episodes were awesome. The first was Duet, which had some great character growth for Kira and some awesome back-and-forth with the Cardassian. Great ending as well, overall well done.

The finale, In the Hands of the Prophets, was great as well. I was so-so on it until halfway through when

Spoiler

the explosion of the school happens behind Odo talking

, after which the episode propelled into a wonderful conflict between the main people interested in the events.

Definitely an awesome pair of episodes to end the season with. Overall the season has been pretty good. It has a flew flops like most Trek seasons do, but it generally worked well. Odo is perhaps my favorite character so far, the dude is badass. And I've warmed up to Sisko; he is strange compared to the other captains, but he is cool if weird.

On to Season 2.

Aside from perhaps TOS S1, DS9 S1 is the best first season of any series because of the first two and last two episodes.

 

[DrForester]

I finished DS9 Season 1 this evening, and Dax was right in that the last two episodes were awesome. The first was Duet, which had some great character growth for Kira and some awesome back-and-forth with the Cardassian. Great ending as well, overall well done.

The finale, In the Hands of the Prophets, was great as well. I was so-so on it until halfway through when

Spoiler

the explosion of the school happens behind Odo talking

, after which the episode propelled into a wonderful conflict between the main people interested in the events.

Definitely an awesome pair of episodes to end the season with. Overall the season has been pretty good. It has a flew flops like most Trek seasons do, but it generally worked well. Odo is perhaps my favorite character so far, the dude is badass. And I've warmed up to Sisko; he is strange compared to the other captains, but he is cool if weird.

On to Season 2.

Just keep an eye on everyone. One of the best things about DS9 that was so different from other Trek was the fantastic character arcs for everyone throughout the series.