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[Bobby Roberts]

We don't care if this is your original vision George, the films don't belong to you. They belong to the fans.

Who are you talking to?

He sold the company almost 5 years ago. They don't belong to him anymore either.

They should rescan the 97 prints at least

It's likely what happened. Which might explain why some changes won't be present, and some will still be there, and others might be even further enhanced.

 

[mattwhite924]

I'd love to see a re-release of the original versions, but honestly there are parts of the special editions that I don't mind. I think Empire fared the best, as a lot of the changes there were fixes to effects.

As long as they don't just throw the laser disk scans on a bluray and call it a day then I'm good. :/

 

[rashbeep]

I wish they would cut out that Jabba scene... again.

It was a pretty unnecessary scene, not sure why they put it back other than to fuck around with 1997 CGI.

 

[Ishida]

While I understand the position that Lucas can do with his film however he wants, he didn't really direct Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi, so I'm not sure why he should tamper with the creative intent of other (perhaps more talented) directors. VFX clean-up and background replacement is one thing, but altering dramatic moments that changes the effect of pivotal scenes doesn't sit too well with me.

He wants to alter the films? Fine, but I think that withholding the original versions goes against the spirit of film preservation and obscures a very important part of film history.

He owned Star Wars back then. Who created the scenes is irrelevant. The person who owns the thing, can alter the thing.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

It was a pretty unnecessary scene, not sure why they put it back other than to fuck around with 1997 CGI.

This is pretty much the reason.

The Special Editions were half market-test to see if Star Wars still had serious pull, theatrically, and part SFX-test to see if what they wanted to do for the Prequels would be feasible.

Everything else past that point (the unnamed changes/cuts that kept coming out on home video) seemed to basically be refinements.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Usually, yeah. I mean, I disagree with pretty much all of the changes done by Lucas to the OT. Not a fan (But not a hater either). But in reality the man owes us nothing. He produced entertainment, we consumed it.

My issue has always been that the work of dozens of people has been papered over. A New Hope won an Oscar for Visual Effects and Production Design. It sucks that the work that won those awards is inaccessible. They did a ton of innovative and important stuff that is in real danger of being lost to history.

Star Wars is a movie with real historical significance, it's crazy to think that it isn't being preserved. Lucas can come out with a Special Edition a year for all I care, I just want the originals preserved and accessible.

 

[A.D. Skinner]

I'd be fine with the blu ray versions with a couple fixes. Take out Vaders no and greedo shooting first and I'll be pretty content with buying them again.

Which "No" do you mean?

Bar Greedo, I still hate the "alert my Star Destroyer" line, and the cut during the Bespin escape. Really breaks the rhythm!

 

[Ishida]

My issue has always been that the work of dozens of people has been papered over. A New Hope won an Oscar for Visual Effects and Production Design. It sucks that the work that won those awards is inaccessible. They did a ton of innovative and important stuff that is in real danger of being lost to history.

Star Wars is a movie with real historical significance, it's crazy to think that it isn't being preserved. Lucas can come out with a Special Edition a year for all I care, I just want the originals preserved and accessible.

Believe me, I agree with that. It's a shame that the very original films don't seem to exist anymore. I would love for them to exist.

But I'm just saying, we as fans are not entitled to anything. I'm just arguing the "Star Wars belong to US" thing. Not really defending the destruction/abandoning of the original cuts.

 

[bill0527]

While I understand the position that Lucas can do with his film however he wants, he didn't really direct Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi, so I'm not sure why he should tamper with the creative intent of other (perhaps more talented) directors. VFX clean-up and background replacement is one thing, but altering dramatic moments that changes the effect of pivotal scenes doesn't sit too well with me.

He wants to alter the films? Fine, but I think that withholding the original versions goes against the spirit of film preservation and obscures a very important part of film history.

He's an artist who ultimately holds the rights to his creation and I'm sure the other directors that worked on the films signed an agreement as such. Whether we agree or not, an artist has the right to do whatever they want with their own work. If da Vinci rose from the grave, pissed and shit on the Mona Lisa, tore it into 1000 pieces and then ate it one piece at a time, well...it was his so fair play to him.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Based on an interview I watched with George Lucas several years ago, I do not believe that original theatrical cuts of these movies exist any longer. Once they were updated to the 1997 special editions, the originals were either destroyed or left to rot and would now be in a condition that you couldn't do anything with them.

I don't have any faith or hope that we will ever see the originals again so I don't get bent out of shape every few months when a thread like this rolls around. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Meh. Taking Star Wars (1977) for example, there is an IB Technicolor print out there in fantastic shape, and they don't fade. Perfectly fine for doing a restoration.

http://fd.noneinc.com/savestarwarscom/savestarwars.com/technicoloribscreening.html

I'm sure there are other elements that we don't even know of. Don't listen to George Lucas.

 

[Into the Light]

If they release this in 4k blu ray, I will buy it again.

 

[Lynd7]

Based on an interview I watched with George Lucas several years ago, I do not believe that original theatrical cuts of these movies exist any longer. Once they were updated to the 1997 special editions, the originals were either destroyed or left to rot and would now be in a condition that you couldn't do anything with them.

I don't have any faith or hope that we will ever see the originals again so I don't get bent out of shape every few months when a thread like this rolls around. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Nah, according to others that have posted over the years, there would definitely be complete reels still that could be used to bring them back. Some much older films have been brought back with barely usable elements.

 

[Sephzilla]

I have absolutely no evidence to back this up what so ever but the whole idea that "the original prints dont exist anymore" always seems to reek of bullshit to me. Like, I have a really hard time believing that the original theatrical cuts of the film were either lost or in bad condition, I don't think LucasFilm or 20th Century Fox would allow something like that to happen. It basically feels like a giant excuse Lucas made so he could continue championing "his" versions of Star Wars.

 

[tearsofash]

Can Jimmy Smits come back for this one too?

 

[Garlador]

My favorite part isn't the head, it's his left arm....

 

[eyeball_kid]

He's an artist who ultimately holds the rights to his creation and I'm sure the other directors that worked on the films signed an agreement as such. Whether we agree or not, an artist has the right to do whatever they want with their own work. If da Vinci rose from the grave, pissed and shit on the Mona Lisa, tore it into 1000 pieces and then ate it one piece at a time, well...it was his so fair play to him.

I think at some point artistic works become part of the public, and whoever owns the object or the rights to distribute must work in the public good to preserve the original work. Directors changing their works over time is just selfishness, hubris, and insecurity.

But the main thing I was sad to read in the OP was Disney removing the Fox logo from the SW intros. I know it's just business, but that 20th Century Fox fanfare at the beginning is as much a part of Star Wars as the text scrolls.

 

[Ishida]

Can Jimmy Smits come back for this one too?

Absolutely. Here's an exclusive picture of Bail Organa in the aftermath of the Death Star's arrival to Aalderan.

 

[friskykillface]

will Dash Rendars outrider be taken out of a new hope?

Outrider in 4k for less than a second B^)

 

[CloudWolf]

Is it the OG OG though? That'll get my ass in a theater.

Spoiler

i'm there day one anyway

Of course not. But it is going to be the 'extra extra special edition' with an altered opening crawl explaining the events of Rogue One and some flashbacks to Leia's youth, with Jimmy Smits. After the Han Solo film they're releasing the trilogy again with the face of Alden Ehrenreich CGI'd on Harrison Ford's body.

 

[Sephzilla]

I think at some point artistic works become part of the public, and whoever owns the object or the rights to distribute must work in the public good to preserve the original work. Directors changing their works over time is just selfishness, hubris, and insecurity.

But the main thing I was said to read in the OP was Disney removing the Fox logo from the SW intros. I know it's just business, but that 20th Century Fox fanfare at the beginning is as much a part of Star Wars as the text scrolls.

Yeah, that felt weird as fuck not hearing the fanfare before The Force Awakens. It helps that the 20th Century Fox fanfare basically sounds like it's part of the Star Wars score.

 

[Metalingus5150]

Yeah, that felt weird as fuck not hearing the fanfare before The Force Awakens. It helps that the 20th Century Fox fanfare basically sounds like it's part of the Star Wars score.

I'm willing to bet someone out there made their own edit to put the Fox Fanfare in the beginning of Force Awakens.

 

[Tertullian]

I'm pinning a lot of hope on these compromise cuts. There are certain things I can tolerate and certain things I can't, and if they manage to be restrained enough in what they keep from the 97/DVD/Blu cuts, then I'll be happy. Well, happy enough. Obviously I would prefer they not muck up the movies with any of that garbage and just remaster the versions that dazzled audiences in theaters four decades ago. But I could live with it if they only kept the stuff that actually improves the movies a wee bit, or that is merely a sidegrade, or that's not so horrifically misguided and offensive that it causes physical pain in the viewer.

I could live with things like:

• Some of the shit they shoved into Mos Eisley and Tatooine in general (though please pair it down a little)
• The CGI X-Wing dogfighting shots at the end of Episode 4
• The little changes to Cloud City to make it seem more open and grand
• Replacing Yub Nub and showing more planets at the end of Episode VI
• Force ghost Hayden Christensen (I've never had as much of a problem with this as everyone else. It's a little disrespectful to Sebastian Shaw, maybe, but honestly, it does make more sense. Anakin never looked like a middle-aged, healthy, un-scarred Sebastian Shaw)

Please don't even bother if they're dumb enough to keep:

• Greedo shooting first (and the awful editing and pacing of the Special Edition Greedo scene)
• The Episode IV Jabba scene
• The Jedi Rock's musical number in Jabba's Palace.
• The Episode VI Vader "NOOOOO" obviously

So... I guess take out all the substantive changes and I can live with the unsubstantive ones, is what I'm saying?

 

[Ushojax]

I can tolerate all the other shit additions staying if they would just change the Noooo and the Anakin ghost back to the original version. Or at least do a new insert of a CG-aged Christensen smiling instead of doing a death stare. They couldn't even be bothered to match up the eyelines, the shot where Obi and Yoda are smiling at Luke off screen and Anakin is glowering straight into the camera...I will never understand how Lucas can sign off on such shoddy work.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

will Dash Rendars outrider be taken out of a new hope?

Outrider in 4k for less than a second B^)

About that - apparently Doug Chiang revealed that the ship was designed for the Special Edition, and was basically given to the Shadows of the Empire project after the fact. Not the other way around.

Please don't even bother if they're dumb enough to keep:
[*]Greedo shooting first (and the awful editing and pacing of the Special Edition Greedo scene)

This was the change that caused the details of the 4K restoration of the leak in the first place. it's apparently been reverted back to its original form.

The Episode IV Jabba scene

This isn't as solid as the above, but I guess they took yet another whack at getting the CG model correct. Maybe they also decided to just have Han step (over) the tail instead of on it? Who knows.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Yes, and usually the creation goes to be owned by the author's state/family, or sold to another company. Star Wars, Back to the Future, Indiana Jones, none of those "belong to the fans".

That is the same exact mentality that produces entitled fans that go full overdramatic when things don't go their way. I've been there.

Death of the author does not refer to the literal death of the creator, it's a concept which refers to the idea that once a work is put out there it doesn't (practically speaking) belong to the author anymore. It belongs to the audience and society to interpret it and do with it as they wish.

That obviously isn't a strictly enforceable thing, but GL did a great disservice to our culture by making the original edits so scarce. No, the ball's not in his court anymore, but he absolutely created the problem.

Colorized edits of b&w films exist alongside the originals just fine, I don't see why this has to be such a fucking problem with SW.

 

[Ishida]

Death of the author does not refer to the literal death of the creator, it's a concept which refers to the idea that once a work is put out there it doesn't (practically speaking) belong to the author anymore. It belongs to the audience and society to interpret it and do with it as they wish.

That obviously isn't a strictly enforceable thing, but GL did a great disservice to our culture by making the original edits so scarce. No, the ball's not in his court anymore, but he absolutely created the problem.

Colorized edits of b&w films exist alongside the originals just fine, I don't see why this has to be such a fucking problem with SW.

Exactly this. It's not enforceable. Lucas could do whatever he wanted with Star Wars back when he owned it. We as fans don't own Star Wars. We get no say in how Star Wars is developed, or what changes can or cannot be made.

That's called entitlement. Self-entitlement.

 

[Guy.brush]

If it's the SE or onward, they'll have to touch up some of the 1997 CGI additions that are already too low res for 1080p, but have never been updated. Imagine what ass these womp rats will look like in 4k

DAT blatantly mirrored Stormtrooper pals.. really hope that kind of iffy stuff is revised further or taken out.
Also M'fucking shadows, how do they work?!

 

[Warm Machine]

It shouldn't have even really been Lucas's decision to add/remove/alter stuff from Empire and Jedi since he didn't even direct those two movies

He paid for them out of his own pocket. Kirshner gave him the thumbs up and Marquand was dead. He could have done whatever he likes. He could have literally burt the negatives and bar anyone from seeing the movies ever if he liked.

 

[Voras]

Now you can watch George Lucas destroy your childhood in even greater detail.

God, that did not age well at all.

 

[zeemumu]

I'm surprised that they're announcing the Rogue One sequel so soon. I'm guessing Blue Harvest isn't gonna be the final title.

 

[jett]

DAT blatantly mirrored Stormtrooper pals.. really hope that kind of iffy stuff is revised further or taken out.
Also M'fucking shadows, how do they work?!

lol

Speaking of shadows, shouldn't people and objects have two shadows due to Tatooine being in a binary star system?

 

[Dash_Riprock]

My favorite part isn't the head, it's his left arm....

What is Love? Baby don't hurt me...

 

[Ishida]

lol

Speaking of shadows, shouldn't people and objects have two shadows due to Tatooine being in a binary star system?

Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a Jedi did it.

 

[Gravidee]

God, that did not age well at all.

Here's the newer version from the 2004/2011 release.

 

[rou021]

Even if this turns out to be another disappointing release (if there's any at all), at least there are...alternative sources for high res scans of the theatrical cuts.

Not benefits worth the effort. Outside of gaming, which renders natively at the resolution chosen, 4K is mostly a scam, really. Unless you're doing full restoration from high quality film prints of a film with no CG in it (or else re-rendering the CG at 4K), you're pretty much wasting your time.

Not necessarily. 4k Blu-ray has a wider color space using DCI-P3 (and someday Rec. 2020). This is the same color space used for D-Cinema and better than Rec. 709 on regular Blu-ray. There's also HDR, as well as the immersive audio formats (e.g. Dolby Atmos and DTS: X) too. Resolution is only a component of 4k Blu-ray and current UHD standards.

Even still, while the resolution may not appear to be dramatically higher, there's still a benefit to a 2k master on 4k Blu-ray too. D-Cinema 2k is technically a higher res than 1080p and a 4k Blu-ray from a 2k master can still sometimes show a little bit more detail. There are screencaps that show this with the Martian, for example.

Whether or not any of this it's enough of a difference to you is a fair argument to make. It certainly costs a lot right now and the tech is still pretty new. All the kinks have yet to be worked out. I wouldn't call it a scam though.

 

[Metalmarc]

May the Fortieth be with us

 

[Warm Machine]

Here's the newer version from the 2004/2011 release.

It is the same 3d model from Phantom Menace in that one.

 

[-shadow-]

My favorite part isn't the head, it's his left arm....

Spoiler

Seriously, how was this okay'd!?

 

[-griffy-]

DAT blatantly mirrored Stormtrooper pals.. really hope that kind of iffy stuff is revised further or taken out.
Also M'fucking shadows, how do they work?!

You can also see clone-stamped/repeated sand textures in the middle.

 

[Biske]

It is the same 3d model from Phantom Menace in that one.

Nah Phantom looks way better

 

[boneyjangles]

Sounds interesting, but this thread is bringing out painful reminders about the truth of some of the enhancements. They just gotta start from scratch, right?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Exactly this. It's not enforceable. Lucas could do whatever he wanted with Star Wars back when he owned it. We as fans don't own Star Wars. We get no say in how Star Wars is developed, or what changes can or cannot be made.

That's called entitlement. Self-entitlement.

"Exactly this" and then miss my point entirely.

If Shakespeare decided in 1610 to replace Hamlet with a talking alien rabbit and burn all copies of the original, we would be much worse off as a society for it.

GL as an artist owes it to future generations of artists and audiences to preserve the original. Look man, if he wanted to do a version of Star Wars where every character was replaced by Jar Jar Binks that would have been his prerogative. Just - to quote the greatest cinematic achievement of the 21st century - don't piss in a jar and tell us it's granny's apple cider.

Ed: also if you want to take a strictly consumerist perspective, why should fans of a movie pony up for a version they don't want? Not like they won't buy it anyway.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Next year:

The Battle of Yavin Box Set

Includes both Rogue One and A New Hope (Theatrical Edition)

Bonus: edit of both films together into one super film

Bonus Bonus: stupidly high price to take advantage of the fanboys. Only way to get the theatrical version of ANH.

I'd give Lucasflm the rights to my soul if this ever happens.

 

[Ishida]

"Exactly this" and then miss my point entirely.

If Shakespeare decided in 1610 to replace Hamlet with a talking alien rabbit and burn all copies of the original, we would be much worse off as a society for it.

GL as an artist owes it to future generations of artists and audiences to preserve the original. Look man, if he wanted to do a version of Star Wars where every character was replaced by Jar Jar Binks that would have been his prerogative. Just - to quote the greatest cinematic achievement of the 21st century - don't piss in a jar and tell us it's granny's apple cider.

Nonsense. He owes future generations nothing. He created Star Wars. While he owned the rights, he could do whatever the hell he wanted with it.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Nah Phantom looks way better

If it still looks like a 3D model instead of a creature, it doesn't look way better. But the New Hope Jabba model was an especially low bar to start with. I don't understand the obsession with CGI in these movies. It seems like director laziness (masquerading as 'flexibility in editing') at the expense of quality.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Nonsense. He owes future generations nothing. He created Star Wars. While he owned the rights, he could do whatever the hell he wanted with it.

You know who disagrees with you? George Lucas

http://www.slashfilm.com/george-lucas-speaks-altering-films-1988/

 

[Ishida]

You know who disagrees with you? George Lucas

http://www.slashfilm.com/george-lucas-speaks-altering-films-1988/

Lucas disagrees with me? You mean the man who actually altered the movies?

 

[omnislayer]

Lucas disagrees with me? You mean the man who actually altered the movies?

Lucas does disagree with you, but just for other people's work that he doesn't own apparently. Film preservation doesn't seem to matter to him if it's his own work.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Lucas sold the company so even arguing over what he did or didn't do and how angry it makes you seems kinda moot anymore.

 

[serenewarfare]

I feel like Disney would wait until they get distribution rights in 2020 on V and VI before doing something like this. They make more that way.