EU fans were kidding themselves thinking that those works were canon in any way shape or form. The whole "EU is canon!" thing was basically marketing to hardcore fans so it would make them feel like those stories mattered. I'm not saying there was no good EU stuff, but the EU was just one of the many cash outlets for Lucas. Having it more controlled is better, but we are still victim to Lucas' uh, questionable ideas.
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Star Wars is getting brand new Expanded Universe
- Thread starter DieH@rd
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Mortimer Brewster
Member
Irc a lot of speculation after Arndt was removed from the project was that Arndt's script was built around introducing a new generation of characters who would be the focal point of the new trilogy but when JJ came in he wanted to play it safe and focus on all the old characters. Knowing Abrams MO and what we've seen and heard since, it sounds like it could be accurate
I will happily eat crow if I'm wrong but I don't trust Abrams.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It wasn't "canon" the instant The Clone Wars was approved for production.
It's not even in print anymore.
The new Clone Wars inherited Ventress from the series and never gave her a proper explanation for her appearance. They just assumed you knew her from the first episode, I presumed both series were considered canon because the latter didn't seem to scrap the original and the original still directly leads to Episode 3.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nope. They effectively stopped existing at Lucasfilm once the commercials for the Clone Wars movie started running.
They're in that weird limbo with the 80s cartoons and the Ewok movies now.
blindrocket
Member
I liked the Dark Trooper and Space Trooper from the EU.
When I collected the action figures in the late 90's (early 2000's?) you could only get those action figures by ordering them from the starwars website, IIRC.
When I collected the action figures in the late 90's (early 2000's?) you could only get those action figures by ordering them from the starwars website, IIRC.
That's a shame, I had hoped the new Clone Wars would just air a couple episodes and replace the old series to avoid this confusion.
LOL as much as I liked the old cartoon, it was pretty poor in parts. The Kotor and the Dark Forces series are better for me.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nah, it's only a shame if you really care where these stories fit on an outside timeline. If the timeline doesn't matter (and it shouldn't, really) then you can just enjoy them both.
Spectromixer
Member
There could always be a novel detailing Anikan's Padawan training and meeting Assaj written in the so called new canon since the new book with Luke is filling in time betwee ANH and ESB anyways.
It was never "EU is canon!" It was "EU is canon until George contradicts it." They've been up front about that for like, decades, and most EU fans recognize that.
What's distressing to most people here isn't that it's no longer canon (and by canon here I mean, canon with the movies) it's that the EU as we've known it for the last twenty years or so, the EU that's been building, is over with. The OP claims new material under the Legends banner will still come out, but that doesn't appear to be the case at all.
I recognize that the movies can't be completely beholden to the EU. That would be absurd. I do wish we could keep getting new material in the EU though. It's not all great, but the will continue to be the case for the new books as well. Only now the new books that suck really WILL be absolutely canon.
I suppose you're right
This would work too, just Disney seemed to be 'done' with everything related to the Clone Wars when they cancelled the tv series.
Red Mage
Member
This.
Follow the link in the OP.
The Silver
Member
The Darth Bane we see in the Clone Wars is very different than the one we see in the EU.
Doublesith
Member
It does - which is why BobbyRoberts' advice is sound - your canon is what you make of it.
A lot of people seem confused as to why The Clone Wars TV show remains as "canon". Love it or hate it, George Lucas was heavily involved in the TV show. He sat in every meeting of the writing staff to plot out each season, and even provided episode by episode story seeds to his writers. Characters like Ahsoka and Cad Bane are Lucas' creations. He reviewed every episode at the editing stage, and gave notes back to the directors and editors. The first cut of the episode "Landing at Point Rain" was considered a disaster by Lucas, so much so that he went in an edited it himself into the final product.
Yeah, I've always had the impression that the Gendy Clone Wars was still canon, but was pushed to the wayside in order to not let there be marketing confusion between that series and the 3D one. I'm pretty sure they don't contradict each other. The 3D series just takes place during the 2D one.
Again: is that in the video? This is all that's said about the status of the old EU:
"Past tales." Nothing at all about new content set in the old EU.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It had to happen. There's no way the movies could be bound by any of the novels.
Exactly, so I still don't understand why would some people say the new show invalidates the old one. You even need to have watched the cartoon to understand some things coming from the clone wars (for example Asajj Ventress).
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I had to laugh when I heard that Daala somehow ends up taking over the Galactic Empire.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Because Lucas wished it to be.
To clarify - I never said the old show was invalidated because of anything that HAPPENED in the new show. It was invalidated because Lucas didn't like how it turned out all that much, and buried it with the new show.
But it was still invalidated.
So far as "validation" matters in this instance, considering the stories are worth as much as you want them to be. I really like "Clone Wars" and have a lot of fun watching it (I've watched it multiple times) so it's just as valid to me as the new show, and the Zahn books, and the Dark Forces games, etc. etc.
I never understood why you had to be so young to train to be a Jedi. Sure you might unlock your full potential and have a much higher chance staying in the order as a child but to (in most cases) deny anyone after age 6 or whatever?
And then that rule that all Jedi must not love. It just doesn't sit right with me. I'm assuming this all changes in the (now non canon) EU.
Because it's easier to teach kids than adults.
Easier to indoctrinate.
"After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story — however many films it took to tell — was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories that I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided. Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga."
-George Lucas.
It's a shame how far we have strayed from this mindset. I thought JJ would be better than the George we ended up getting, I was wrong it seems. The Star Wars universe, like the films themselves, were a collaboration and it feels less so today.
-George Lucas.
It's a shame how far we have strayed from this mindset. I thought JJ would be better than the George we ended up getting, I was wrong it seems. The Star Wars universe, like the films themselves, were a collaboration and it feels less so today.
Why would it? It's in the movies - the part of the canon that's remaining.
As for the reasons why they train children and are forbidden from "love" - it's so they don't form attachments or have fears for loved ones that would draw them into the dark side.
The point is, though, that the Old Republic Jedi were wrong about the "love" thing anyway. Luke demonstrates that by loving his father and not falling to the dark side.
I don't even like JJ but I think would be really unfair to straitjacket him to 30+ years of post-ROTJ storytelling. It's virtually impossible to bring movie audiences up to speed on The Yuzhuann Vong, Luke "force-walking," the Solo kids, and all the falls/rises of the Republic... and still keep it accessible.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, and at some point between 2005 and 2008, he changed his mind.
Lucas does that every now and again
edit: Also, that anecdote relies on the idea that Adult Swim bumps are a good source for relaying George Lucas' thoughts
None of that should be relevant to the story he is trying to tell with these new movies however. There is a twenty year gap between ROTS and ANH and we never needed a long winded exposition. What difference does it make if in the new movies Han and Leia only have a daughter, EU fans will know whats up and Jacen and Anakin would have no barring on the story so bringing them up to the general audience would be unnecessary.
Man, the OT mentions the Clone Wars maybe 5-6 times, it is alluded to but never a focus. "The War with teh Vong" gets mentioned a few times and movie fans take it as another event that happened off screen("Well, the bounty hunter we ran into on Ord Mantell changed my mind.") and EU fans know whats up. The universe would feel grand again because there are adventures happening off screen, now everything feels stale a little hollow. It really makes me think that JJ must not be creative enough to move away from the Empire and do something new.
Do you have any source or any quote from him? I'm interested in what he said about the show.
He directed the clone wars, and nothing is in contradiction with the cartoon. Even the staff working on that show said they were taking the cartoon into account.
If it's not discredited by any official material and is taken into account in their production, it can only be canon...
He directed the clone wars, and nothing is in contradiction with the cartoon. Even the staff working on that show said they were taking the cartoon into account.
If it's not discredited by any official material and is taken into account in their production, it can only be canon...
Bobby Roberts
Banned
What's stopping him from having characters mention things that are happening off-screen that DON'T have a pre-existing book attached? That neither EU fans OR new viewers have any frame of reference for?
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Does that mean Kotor Era is safe after all? I'm so confused.
I see no reason why that can't be an issue but I was framing how past EU material and events could be treated. Even as a huge EU fan, it is foolish to think that the EU has covered every single day of Luke's adventures. That is what kills me about people who want the EU gone in favor of "creative freedom", there is no way those books, games, and comics could have chronicled all of the potential story
Nothing besides common sense. Disney's not going to make huge investments outside of the 'new' universe. That would confuse the masses and not come attached with the serialized nature of these movies. You don't get casuals feeling like they have to see every Star Wars movie, like the Marvel ones, when some don't take place in the same universe.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Disney.
Jack Scofield
Member
I randomly came across this and can't decide if it's the best or worst thing I've ever seen.
It's an assassin droid. Because we all know how well a droid like C-3PO can move. Wait, nevermind, it's the worst thing I've ever seen.
It's an assassin droid. Because we all know how well a droid like C-3PO can move. Wait, nevermind, it's the worst thing I've ever seen.
thecouncil
Banned
Doesn't this basically mean that they wiped 30 years of books away just so they could make 7 part of the same storyline as the original trilogy? Another reason why they should've let the Skywalker storyline end with Jedi.
I really doubt Disney gives a damn about story elements, at the end of the day people are going to go because of Star Wars. They pretty much let JJ do whatever he wants with the story and I assume Kennedy cares either. At the end of the day, if they bring in talent to work on Star Wars, I think they are just going to let him work on Star Wars. JJ has very little oversight so I assume another one with his caliber would have little oversight too.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Then why did they make a whole new group dedicated to the Story and canon of the franchise?
LucasFilm threw together a group to watch over various books and games, etc.
Do you really think they are going to dictate to a film director?
"In order to give maximum creative freedom to the filmmakers..."
Seems like the movies dictate the New EU but I hardly doubt anyone will dictate the new movies.
Kyle Newman has got to get in on this...
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Star Wars is fantasy in space, not hard scifi. We don't see much technological advancement going on in Tolkien's middle earth over thousands of years either but nobody complains there because, yeah, its fantasy.
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