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Star Wars |OT| I have a very good feeling about this...

Sep 19, 2015
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Lets do it in here. I'm ready to watch TPM again!
So fair warning, I'm a late comer to the Star Wars saga. My first Star Wars movie was TFA and then I went on to watch the Original Trilogy and then the PT, but I was actually on the computer the whole time and watching it in the background, this time, I tried to pay attention the whole time. While I can certainly see the harsh criticism and why diehard SW fans hate the movie, I don't think this movie is as bad as they make it out to be, it has some good moments, and the introduction of a very memorable character.

+ The pod race was a lot funner to watch this time around, even with some poor acting
+ Darth Maul, what a waste to kill him off
+ The story actually made sense to me this time, or at least I think it did lol. I will spoiler tag it just in case
Trade Federation wants to put sanctions in Naboo, the Taken guy and Obi Wan Kenobi go there to try to negotiate, can't, and they try to kill them. They rescue Queen Amidala and she goes before the courts to plead her case where Palpatine plays her. They then team up with the Gungans to create a diversion against the Trade Federation while they go to try to kill the Viceroy of the Trade Federation.
+ The whole backstory on how it starts to build up to the OT, I like some of those connections
+ Some of the new characters were fun and innovative. Gungan people were actually interesting as was the city. I believe those have potential to be explored in future iterations of the franchise. The flying slave owner bug was also interesting to me

- JarJar Binks is a lot more annoying when you pay attention to the movie
- CGI is horribly dated. I don't think CGI from the late 2000s until now will age that badly in 20 years if they are nicely done, but CGI from the late 90s early 2000s has aged pretty badly. The underwater sequence was pretty bad and fake looking. I bet the OT won't have aged as bad as this
- Young Anakin's acting was pretty bad
- Natalie Portman was checked out just like she was in Thor
- Poorly execution of the story and screenplay. While I liked the story overall, the execution and how it was played out was....lacking. I don't know how else to explain. It could have certainly been better executed
- Samuel L. Jackson has certainly had better acting scenes and roles
- Anakin's mother just being magically impregnated, I mean what the hell
 
Oct 29, 2013
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I would be grateful for an invite to the discord as well, if only to try it out. Always been very active in discussion threads but rarely visited the community side of GAF, so I’m not sure if I’d like discord’s structure. But where else is there to go, eh?

If not, that’s okay, I know everything is crazy right now and I wasn’t really part of this community before. I’ll just have to drive my fiancé crazy by telling her all my thoughts instead :p
 

fisheyes

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Mar 3, 2008
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I haven't posted in this thread much (at all) but do enjoy GAF's Star Wars discussion, I also wouldn't mind a look-in on this discord if possible.
 

Mett

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May 13, 2016
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A newbie here but I wouldn't mind a invite to the Star Wars discord, always like reading up on related stuff! :)
 

Spamification1

Neo Member
Jun 13, 2014
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Don't think I've ever posted in this thread but I've lurked in it for a long time so I'd also love a link to the discord. I'm always down to see discussions about Star Wars.
 

Shyranui

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May 8, 2015
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I am a huuuge fan of Star Wars. I can even discuss the prequels without turning into a ball of rage and hate. I even like them (a little, just a little, some things, please don't judge me), Of course I agree that AOTC is one giant mess.

And now I'm following the comics and watching Rebels, and of course waiting for TLJ ,so I'd like to chat with cool people like you. Can I have a DIscord invite? Thank you :)
 
Oct 23, 2013
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This seems a good a place as any to make my last post on GAF. It's been fun talking Star Wars with you all for quite a few years now and for those of you that haven't joined us at our not-so-secret rebel base yet (resetERA), we hope to see you there soon.

 

RyanW

Member
Jun 11, 2015
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Just noticed the site that resurrected from GAF is up. Hopefully we can all get in there or at least the Star Wars discord real soon so we can go back to normal
 

defusal

Member
Oct 15, 2016
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Invite also if possible please. Don't want to lose access. I understand that its probably been locked down now to stop raiders.
 

hardvibes

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May 22, 2013
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You all seem to know what's going on. I don't. Could someone please explain why I can't find The Last Jedi thread anymore and why people are asking for invites?
Thanks
 
Sep 19, 2015
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You all seem to know what's going on. I don't. Could someone please explain why I can't find The Last Jedi thread anymore and why people are asking for invites?
Thanks
OT got temporarily removed. There was a big meltdown on GAF over the past weekend because of sexual allegations against the site's owner. You can request threads to be brought back up here.
 
Oct 25, 2015
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So I started rewatching the movies in prep of 8, man Ep. 2 is definitely the worst. Yes it has some good scenes but that dialog is awful most of the time. Ep. 3 even though it shares some of the faults of 1 and 2, is a big step up in my opinion. Even Christensen does a better job (not all his fault he worked with what he had)
 

michaelius

Member
Jan 5, 2012
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News season of clone wars coming ? I'm just watching first one on Netflix and outside of really bad low budget 3d animation it's great - much more of what people wanted from prequels than what actual prequels did.
 

#Phonepunk#

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currently listening to "The Secret History of Star Wars" by Michael Kaminski. there is a 3 part audio book version on youtube. it is really fascinating to follow the creation of these films, and he does a great job explaining the different drafts and tracing the development of characters, ideas, and set pieces as George goes through the process of writing this stuff.

i guess at heart is the "lie" that he wrote everything himself all at once as one big story. its a lie that he told for a number of reasons, partially in order to protect his property, partially to appease fanatics that kept asking him about other adventures and all this backstory (and why not tease sequel/prequels if this is making u that $$$?). in a very interesting way, the fans of SW have been shaping the film since the first entry, the demands of the project and the plot of each entry kind of reshaping the concept as a whole. yet in a "certain point of view" he really was writing the whole thing himself, and it is interesting to see PT and even ST ideas we have now existing as early drafts of The Journal of the Whills from the early 70s.

it is fascinating! you get to see him sort of shape these movies in real time. for instance Obi Wan was going to escape the Death Star but it meant there was no danger to the place at all, it was not very dramatic, so he and Alec Guiness came up with his death. this change was made after they had already filmed the Tantooine scenes but before they shot the Death Star. Vader had a first name of Darth at the time, which is why he calls him Darth. he was also not Anakin Skywalker. the story was changing even while they were filming. Lucas was constantly toying with characters and seeing how they could interact, have histories, etc. ways in which they could better heighten the space drama.

even though the first film was wildly successful, he personally didn't make enough to make his dream film studio Skywalker ranch. he decided to dump everything he made into the sequel in a gamble to make more. he had to get bank loans, he put all his money into the movie. it had to succeed or he would be ruined. he told Kirshner ESB was the gamble, to see if they could pull off making more SW, and if they could, they could make 6, 9, 12, just an infinite number, and it would fund all his future projects. he could do stuff like Skywalker Sound and ILM and Pixar and have this massive film tech r&d center. but the production got away from him. the director and producer ignored Lucas's orders to minimize budget and be fast, they went for a more methodical, artistic approach. they went over-budget and spent time experimenting with camera shots and dialogue, focusing on characters. this all frustrated him, he complained that it should have been made cheaper.

thus Lucas would fire his producer and ROTJ was made with a more mercenary budget-mindedness. he surrounded himself with yes men and shadow directed it himself, working constantly on this all consuming project. by this point, his marriage had been straining under the demanding weight of SW for years, and finally gave away. his wife, Marcia Lucas, one of the secret key voices in the OT, left him for the designer of the stained glass window in Skywalker Ranch. imagine being haunted by that =(. they separated before he finished ROTJ, and even though he was finally free of SW and could do his mega projects, in the divorce she took half his fortune. it's a bittersweet ending to the OT, and imo it explains why the movie is so focused on wrapping up everything and providing a conclusive ending. ESB had Yoda mention an Other, a mystery person left for future films, at one point (explained in an early draft of ESB by ghosts of Obi Wan and a non-Vader Anakin) Luke's twin sister who was training as a Jedi on the other side of the galaxy. it originally was not Leia but some mystery character (similar to Rey?) who was then retconned to be Leia for ROTJ. Lucas wanted to wrap things up, tie up all the loose ends, and Leia had already shown some force powers in an early draft of SW by resisting interrogation on the Death Star using Mind Powers, and ESB had made Han the romantic interest, so it sort of made the most sense to write it that way. other things were changed of course, the inclusion of the massive Imperial planet cut for budgetary issues, the use of two Death Stars rather than one. Space Balls indeed. anyways that's as far i've gotten, about 5 hours in to part 2. the rest of this is about Lucas surviving his personal hell to do the special edition and then write the prequels. it's an incredible story and inside look at the creative process.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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i finished "The Secret History of Star Wars". the series pretty much consumed his life, his obsession with finishing the movies & Skywalker Ranch ended up imploding his marriage. oddly enough, the ensuing rise of blockbuster films ended up killing off the more personal approach of the 70s auteurs that he originally came from. after SW it wasn't just Lucas that was hurting, many of the old filmmakers were having trouble replicating their successes in the 70s, they had failed marriages as well, money problems, etc. the latter being a big reason why Lucas had personal fallouts with a lot of his old film school buddies. 80s was not a good time. Lucas's own divorce was so painful it fundamentally altered the industry. he wrote the heart-ripping-out "Temple of Doom" during this dark period, which was so dark it introduced PG-13 into the lexicon.

Lucas continued to work in the fantasy genre, and his company worked on critical flop after critical flop. like with SW he was constantly pushing genre fiction and helpd put out the Ewok movies, Labyrinth, Willow, The Land Before Time, (and my non-ironic favorite) Howard the Duck. his dream Skywalker ranch ended up spawning so many companies that put out incredible media and worked on landmark films. LucasArts put out great video games, and by the time CD-ROM gaming was of age, "Rebel Assault" was put together, featuring new footage shot by the original cinematographer from the first Star Wars, with original props and sets, as well David Prowse reprising his role of Darth Vader. ILM of course basically invented modern CGI tech. Lucas reminisces about first seeing the final rendered T-Rex for "Jurassic Park" and tears coming down because it was so beautiful, he knew it would change the world. i mean we may have Lucas to thank for every movie that uses CGI these days.

the Special Edition was never really guaranteed, but they decided to go ahead with a 20th anniversary release after the massive success of various SW tv commercials (i remember Vader fighting the Energizer bunny and being so surprised and excited by it) as well as the EU novels. fan demand was a big reason why the prequels were made as well, being more or less funded by merchandise sales. the prequels are what they are, and i have to hand it to Lucas to not fold and do the easy thing, which would be episode 3 as the first film and 2 more movies of Darth Vader going around killing people. he had always wanted to do it in a different style, as a political costume drama, and many characters (like Mace Windu) and ideas are indeed taken from the earliest drafts of SW. this book kind of opened my eyes to the real Jedi, which were always meant by Lucas to be a sort of Space Police more than Space Monks, something the series got away from with Yoda's far more mystical/transcendental approach in ESB. ironically, Yoda flipping around with a light saber was actually in an early draft of ESB.

poor writing and acting aside, the prequels on reflection are pretty wonderful, bizarre takes on 30s pulp genre fiction, with all the attendant action setpieces, sweeping vistas, colorful characters, and hackneyed romance. the book mentions how Hayden Christensen reacted negatively to the title "Attack of the Clones", despite it being pretty much in the same genre as "The Empire Strikes Back". this is ironic because "Hayden" was a name written on a brainstorm list back in 1973 while thinking of weird space character first names. by the 2000s Lucas was a man out of time, perhaps he was out of step with everyone, but he always has been, and we have to be thankful for that. for all the amazing films and contributions he has made. i highly recommend this book, it's fascinating and clears up a LOT of myths.
 
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pel1300

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Should I make a new thread for this?

A trailer for a re-edit of The Last Jedi by Ivan Ortega.

Basically with all the edits, Ivan is editing out some dialogue and scenes, as well as adding some things in.

It will change the overall message of the film, and might exclude most of Canto Bight...if not all.



Changes seen in the trailer:
-Star Wars Logo is yellow, not red. It was red because Lucasfilm and/or Rian wanted us to think it was gonna be darker than Empire.
-Luke doesn't throw the lightsabre, he hands it back to Rey
-Luke never thought about killing Ben Solo. Ben Solo was turned by himself or by Snoke.
-Luke tells Rey "You need a teacher", edited to look like Luke wants to train her.
-Luke says "No one is ever really gone" (this edit will make it look like Luke is trying to bring Kylo back)
-Snoke doesn't mention Vader's name. Ivan wants to avoid all the "Kylo is a Vader copycat" stuff
-Luke's lightsaber at Crate is his green lightsaber.

Personally, I think it would be cool if Ivan could take Luke dialogue from Mark Hamill's voice acting in Star Wars video games and TV shows in a clever way to add more to his character.

Here is "Luke mourns Han" in the re-edit:

And here is him explaining how he is changing Snoke's relationship to Kylo Ren:

 

StormFiber

Neo Member
Jan 27, 2019
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Always been very active in discussion threads but rarely visited the community side of GAF, so Im not sure if Id like discords structure. But where else is there to go, eh? If not, thats okay, I know everything is crazy right now and I wasnt really part of this community before. Ill just have to drive my fiancé crazy by telling her all my thoughts instead :p
 

slugbahr

Gold Member
Jan 4, 2019
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The edge of a circle
So I started rewatching the movies in prep of 8, man Ep. 2 is definitely the worst. Yes it has some good scenes but that dialog is awful most of the time. Ep. 3 even though it shares some of the faults of 1 and 2, is a big step up in my opinion. Even Christensen does a better job (not all his fault he worked with what he had)
Yes it has some good scenes but that dialog is awful most of the time. Ep. 3 even though it shares some of the faults of 1 and 2, is a big step up in my opinion. Even Christensen does a better job (not all his fault he worked with what he had)
Is it really your opinion if it is exactly the same as another poster's??

🤔
 

#Phonepunk#

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i love Attack of the Clones. it is one of my favorite from the series. would put it above ROTJ.

feel like "the acting is bad, the dialog is bad" etc. these complaints are really old and played out at this point. dialog in the original OT was pretty bad too ("You can write this stuff, George, but you can't say it"). i can look past all of it because of the roots of the genre. Anakin's exaggerated acting makes more sense in this context, it is broad and dramatic, staged more like an old film, and he does a good job portraying an awkward, restless teenager. PT is so old fashioned that people can't handle it. George laid it out on the line making the most accurate tribute he could make to 20s serials and sci fi.

no doubt there were assholes in the 20s saying "Flash Gordon looks like shit, you can see the strings on the spaceships". Star Wars was not made for them. these are the same types that think "Attack of the Clones" is "an embarrassing name". after Empire actually the best pulp title in the series. it's the same line of thinking that "Clones" title is embarrassing which gives us the cooler-than-thou Disney SW. GL brought a wide eyed hokeyness to it that is essential, it is entirely missing in the modern cynical era. this is why modern SW has no soul. it is self doubting and elitist where it was once silly and accessible.

AOTC is so great. you have the rad noir sideplot. you have Obi Wan chasing down a mystery. you have Christopher Lee MOFUGGGIN OG DRACULA as a Sith Lord. you have the thrilling Ray Harryhausen tribute with the Coliseum. JJ would never do a Harryhausen tribute, does he even know who he is? no he gives us generic CGI Rathtars. yeesh. massive lightsaber battles. Samuel L Jackson killing Boba Fett's dad. Natalie Portman kicking all kinds of ass. there is a lot to love in here.
 
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kegkilla

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feel like "the acting is bad, the dialog is bad" etc. these complaints are really old and played out at this point. dialog in the original OT was pretty bad too ("You can write this stuff, George, but you can't say it"). i can look past all of it because of the roots of the genre. Anakin's exaggerated acting makes more sense in this context, it is broad and dramatic, staged more like an old film, and he does a good job portraying an awkward, restless teenager. PT is so old fashioned that people can't handle it. George laid it out on the line making the most accurate tribute he could make to 20s serials and sci fi.
You're right, it's a space opera, the cheese acting is at least partially intended. Also, it's not really any different from the acting in the OT, which nobody seems to recognize.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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Also, it's not really any different from the acting in the OT, which nobody seems to recognize.
well in some ways it is. Queen Amidala at the time got a lot of criticism for being wooden and stiff. now i have seen more of Portman's work, i have seen her in The Professional, i now try to see what she is going for. when i go back and watch it, it really is like some queen of a distant planet, painted up kabuki style (which strongly suggests a stately tone), this young girl fully in charge of an embattled civilization, with a strong, determined demeanor, keeping cool even under her city being beseiged. it is quite inspiring, it lends a gravity to the film that would be lacking without. it is a more Costume Drama take rather than the usual more comic style melodramatics, i think this threw people for a loop at the time but was the right idea. IMO Lucas may have found it necessary, to balance the baroquely detailed worlds, grounding it in this steely, determined, kind-hearted ruler.

interesting how the PT takes her over time from this kind of pure, stately regalia to the emotive, suffering mother. she is far more sensual in AOTC, which indulges in the sexy sci fi tropes of the pulp era that Lucas never really got to do in the OT. by the final film, the corrupting influence of the decidedly unstable Anakin has transformed her, the first result of his legacy of chaos ending in their dual deaths at the conclusion of the films.
 
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Joon

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Sep 1, 2018
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interesting how the PT takes her over time from this kind of pure, stately regalia to the emotive, suffering mother. she is far more sensual in AOTC, which indulges in the sexy sci fi tropes of the pulp era that Lucas never really got to do in the OT. by the final film, the corrupting influence of the decidedly unstable Anakin has transformed her, the first result of his legacy of chaos ending in their dual deaths at the conclusion of the films.
I think her diminishing responsibilities play a role in her downfall too. She starts off as Queen of an entire to planet, then drops to a representive, then becomes (and prioritises being) a wife. So by the time she's put all her eggs in the Anni basket - and he ends up going loco - she has essentially lost everything. I mean, by the end of the trilogy she was literally begging for the pair of them to run away from it all - the galactic conflict, rising new empire etc - to live alone and in hiding. Kind of tragic how she left herself whittle down like that. Meanwhile her effective counter-part, Palpatine, only goes from strength to strength and ends up running the whole show.
 
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NickFire

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I think her diminishing responsibilities play a role in her downfall too. She starts off as Queen of an entire to planet, then drops to a representive, then becomes (and prioritises being) a wife. So by the time she's put all her eggs in the Anni basket - and he ends up going loco - she has essentially lost everything. I mean, by the end of the trilogy she was literally begging for the pair of them to run away from it all - the galactic conflict, rising new empire etc - to live alone and in hiding. Kind of tragic how she left herself whittle down like that. Meanwhile her effective counter-part, Palpatine, only goes from strength to strength and ends up running the whole show.
I love your post, but disagree with a bit. I especially disagree with her prioritizing being a wife. In my opinion their failure to prioritize their relationship contributed to both of their downfalls. Trying to live their customary public lives left room for him to be manipulated, and kept her from realizing the danger he was in (which extrapolated to their whole world due to his potential) before it was too late to save him. Maybe him being in a grey area after being kicked out would give Palpatine easier access, but maybe it would have made Palpatine's sinister motives in his fondness of Ani more obvious since the Jedi would probably take more notice after he was kicked out. And if they truly left everyone behind, there would have been a force to counter Palpatine much earlier in Ani himself.
 

Fallbutler

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Aug 6, 2019
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Almost all of the Marvel Star Wars comics are available on Kindle Unlimited.
Are any of them decent?
The Vader series written by Kieron Gillen is probably the most popular, seems like a good place to start. And here are some reddit threads with recommendations from the community, hopefully you find something that interests you.


(Also, I'll add that Star Wars comics are included with Marvel Unlimited, might be of interest to someone here.)
 
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#Phonepunk#

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what is the best pre-special edition version of the OT nowadays? a couple years ago I watched the Despecialized version of Empire at a friend's house and it looked really cool. are there any better, newer 4K restorations? whats the highest quality I can get?
 
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