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Star Wars: The Old Republic [Releasing Date: Dec 20 NA/EU - NDA Lifted]
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This game still sounds like a lot of fun, even if It does have these issues. Then again, I never expected it to be perfect or even significantly affect WoW, I just expect it to be entertaining for a few months. Something fun to do with friends a couple times a week. Have I missed any complaints that would suggest this game will fail at that?
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This game still sounds like a lot of fun, even if It does have these issues. Then again, I never expected it to be perfect or even significantly affect WoW, I just expect it to be entertaining for a few months. Something fun to do with friends a couple times a week. Have I missed any complaints that would suggest this game will fail at that?
Dinosaur Tamer
Member
Morn said:
Yes, there will always be instances. Flashpoints are instanced and there are several quest related areas that are and will be instanced. They never said there won't be any instances.
That has absolutely nothing to do with zone sharding, which is the topic we were talking about.
In case you were talking about zone sharding. Are you really suggesting they openly lied about zone sharding and sharded zones are there to stay forever? So you want to tell us Bioware lies about this, but you can see into the post-launch future and know the truth and everyone should believe you because of .... what exactly?
AzureNightmare
Banned
The issues you're complaining about can all be cleaned up very quickly with a few patches. It will be fixed by the time the game goes live.Jarmel said:
Dinosaur Tamer
Member
Morn said:
Having the ability to use sharding does not actually mean they are going to use it all the time.
They already explained they can do it, are currently testing it and like the idea of having it as some kind of tool in extreme situations like launch day/week, but don't expect to use it outside of the mentioned extremes. And that's it.
I am not saying they are indeed never going to use it at all or that there is no chance they will use it to deal with similar situations like the launch of an expansion pack or a patch event in the scale of Ahn'Qiraj. But I can't see how that could classify as "forever" as it is an exception of perhaps half a week in a 12 month timeframe (and that is being very generous).
The way Bioware descirbed it makes perfect sense, if you think about it. It is actually very doubtful the Hero Engine actually relies on sharding outside of extreme situations were the majority of the population is within one or a few selected zones. The engine was specifically designed for MMORPGs and AFAIK there is no evidence it can't handle "standard" player loads in a zone. There have been a lot of less specialized engines that were able to pull that off.
Also, sharding the zones for special occasions might not be as elegant and subtle as having spawn times scale with the number of players in the zone, but I bet it is actually more effective in what they are trying to achieve. Even with the adjusted spawn times people were still camping spawns and spamming keys to claim a mob in a hopelessly overcrowded zone.
And Morn, you really must hate the game to go on a 385 post long crusade like this, but that is your own business. Some of your posts in here came pretty close to trolling and I am pretty sure I am not the only one feeling this way (love the avatar edit a few pages ago, btw), yet there is hardly a thread of this size where this doesn't happen so who cares.
However, I feel like claiming a developer is lying about a feature - on no grounds at all - is just crossing the lines of friendly and constructive discussion, no matter how you personally feel about the game. Imagine everyone would start claiming lies without offering any proof at all. (I am obviously not talking about PR talk here - there is a difference between PR talk and openly lying.)
Maybe it's just me, but I have come to expect at least some amount of good manners towards fellow posters AND developers on GAF and I thought that was crossing some lines.
Last Hearth
Member
There is definitely a respawning issue with certain quest items not respawning fast enough and the mob around them respawning too fast.
But that's such an easy issue to fix that I'm not worried about it for the release.
But that's such an easy issue to fix that I'm not worried about it for the release.
Gary Whitta
Member
Has BioWare given any indication of when this is coming out?
Gary Whitta
Member
Definitely tempted to try it out, it's the first post-WoW MMO I'm actually interested in. The beta impressions so far aren't too encouraging though...
I think theres a large issue of the franchise itself KOTOR appealing to people who probably dont like or havent played an MMO. Its gonna jade alot of people who dont like the concept.Gary Whitta said:
The game is certainly not redefining the MMO genre. Simply adding some bioware touches to it
Gary Whitta
Member
I'm kinda okay with that though. I think the familiarity of WoW-style questing but with Star Wars trappings and all the polish and story stuff BioWare brings is enough to keep me happy, at least for a while.antonz said:
Found a really good post that somewhat sums up my feelings:
This game is not ready to ship, it does need new content, it does need new features, it does have a lot of bugs, and it is months away from being ready, maybe even a year.
Bugs:
- Quest bugs
- Camera angle bugs during cutscenes
- Shading bugs on player characters, parts disappearing, weapons disappearing
- Quests resetting automatically or failing for no reason
Features:
- Lack of a looking fro group or group matching service are desperately needed, it doesn't have to be cross-server but there needs to be a way for people to hook up that doesn't involve stopping what your doing and spamming the general chat or looking through the (O) menu for people. I should be able to get a group without stopping my exploration.
- Lack of true exploration. Everything is so constricted. There are not random mobs or random quests. Everything is sequenced and scheduled for you on every planet. Why aren't there quests that have nothing to do with the main story arcs? Why aren't there special achievements for discovering all the areas on a map?
- Lack of deep, meaningful crafting. Crafting was a fun and interactive part of SWG and no other MMO I've played since then has even come close. Why doesn't Bioware swallow its pride and install a similar system in SWTOR? It just makes sense, this WoWish clone of meaningless crafting gets even worse because I don't actually get to the do the crafting myself my minions get to do it, boring! Why can't we have it both ways. Rare nodes you have to find using tools, companions having the option to gather, or craft; as welll as, players getting to craft. Make items have varying quality and crafting success. Have the number of mod slots be a critical success, add some customization to the crafting game. Years ago they made crafting sound cool, the reality is very different, its boring, unimaginative and grindy. Go with an EVE system of skill building so you can take advantage of offline time.
- Lack of life in the game. (not talkin about the lack of players it's beta I know) The NPC's are static, there are very few "things" going on on each world. These type of staged or random events would be perfect vehicles for dynamic world events that could trigger new quest hubs or an entirely new story arc that any player could get involved in, but there is nothing there. NPC's stand and sway, every now and then you see a battle going on on Taris or Alderaan. The animals don't even move! Where is the great Bantha migration on Tat? What about rare animals that spawn on planets and you hunt for prizes and fame?
- Lack of flashpoints. There are so few flashpoints and they are so far apart in the game its ridiculous I've played from 1- 33 and only been given 1 flashpoint, that's half the game with only one truly fun feature! Craziness! There should be a flashpoint every 5 levels at least, because the flashpoints are an amazingly well done part of this game!
- Lack of social features. I know people don't want resources spent on dance moves and entertaining but it is a key aspect of longevity in an MMO. Socializing brings players to a game. Vending brings players to a game. You need all kinds of players to make a good team and in this case a good game. These players are almost completely ignored by Bioware. You should be able to sit in a seat and you should be able to control dance moves. I know its silly, I don't do it but others love it and they are not having their needs met.
- Lack of a good space experience. The space combat is boring and limited. There is currently no PvP in space no co-op missions and there is a shame. Space in SWG was good and could have been more if SOE had put the time in to develop it. the fact that there has never really been a good space combat component of any MMO (spare me EVE fanboys, EVE's space game was lame and not FPS) Bioware could simply blow the competition out of the water with an amazing 3-D space flight component. I remember group missions (killing the vette, PvP and destroying the ISD in deep space, and farming for reverse engineering components and then spending hours trying to find the right combinations for ship components) Space, in-game right now, needs to be scrapped and completely re-thought.
- Lack of end game. This game needs end game content. There need to be the stable end game features PvP, Raiding, and Solo, but the question that keeps coming up in my mind and did when I played WoW was, "Why should I go back to ___________?" What is there to do on Tython/Korriban for level 50's? Why aren't there zones on each planet for end game? This would be a perfect place to use RvR, Solo questing, Heroics, and exploration. I see this in almost every MMO I've ever played, you reach max level and never go back. Why? Wouldn't it be more efficient and effective to return to the games roots and build on them? Maybe there is a mystery that a player didn't discover until the end of their class quest that takes them back and starts a new search. It just seems like a waste to make single planets for a single purpose and never see them again, it makes them dead and limits a players options for gameplay unnecessarily.
I could go on, but I've said enough.
----------------------------
Some of this such as the endgame stuff I can't comment, however the static world does stand out.
Also what it seems I wanted in regards to planet events would be world phasing. So it is doable and something that I think would greatly benefit the game.
This game is not ready to ship, it does need new content, it does need new features, it does have a lot of bugs, and it is months away from being ready, maybe even a year.
Bugs:
- Quest bugs
- Camera angle bugs during cutscenes
- Shading bugs on player characters, parts disappearing, weapons disappearing
- Quests resetting automatically or failing for no reason
Features:
- Lack of a looking fro group or group matching service are desperately needed, it doesn't have to be cross-server but there needs to be a way for people to hook up that doesn't involve stopping what your doing and spamming the general chat or looking through the (O) menu for people. I should be able to get a group without stopping my exploration.
- Lack of true exploration. Everything is so constricted. There are not random mobs or random quests. Everything is sequenced and scheduled for you on every planet. Why aren't there quests that have nothing to do with the main story arcs? Why aren't there special achievements for discovering all the areas on a map?
- Lack of deep, meaningful crafting. Crafting was a fun and interactive part of SWG and no other MMO I've played since then has even come close. Why doesn't Bioware swallow its pride and install a similar system in SWTOR? It just makes sense, this WoWish clone of meaningless crafting gets even worse because I don't actually get to the do the crafting myself my minions get to do it, boring! Why can't we have it both ways. Rare nodes you have to find using tools, companions having the option to gather, or craft; as welll as, players getting to craft. Make items have varying quality and crafting success. Have the number of mod slots be a critical success, add some customization to the crafting game. Years ago they made crafting sound cool, the reality is very different, its boring, unimaginative and grindy. Go with an EVE system of skill building so you can take advantage of offline time.
- Lack of life in the game. (not talkin about the lack of players it's beta I know) The NPC's are static, there are very few "things" going on on each world. These type of staged or random events would be perfect vehicles for dynamic world events that could trigger new quest hubs or an entirely new story arc that any player could get involved in, but there is nothing there. NPC's stand and sway, every now and then you see a battle going on on Taris or Alderaan. The animals don't even move! Where is the great Bantha migration on Tat? What about rare animals that spawn on planets and you hunt for prizes and fame?
- Lack of flashpoints. There are so few flashpoints and they are so far apart in the game its ridiculous I've played from 1- 33 and only been given 1 flashpoint, that's half the game with only one truly fun feature! Craziness! There should be a flashpoint every 5 levels at least, because the flashpoints are an amazingly well done part of this game!
- Lack of social features. I know people don't want resources spent on dance moves and entertaining but it is a key aspect of longevity in an MMO. Socializing brings players to a game. Vending brings players to a game. You need all kinds of players to make a good team and in this case a good game. These players are almost completely ignored by Bioware. You should be able to sit in a seat and you should be able to control dance moves. I know its silly, I don't do it but others love it and they are not having their needs met.
- Lack of a good space experience. The space combat is boring and limited. There is currently no PvP in space no co-op missions and there is a shame. Space in SWG was good and could have been more if SOE had put the time in to develop it. the fact that there has never really been a good space combat component of any MMO (spare me EVE fanboys, EVE's space game was lame and not FPS) Bioware could simply blow the competition out of the water with an amazing 3-D space flight component. I remember group missions (killing the vette, PvP and destroying the ISD in deep space, and farming for reverse engineering components and then spending hours trying to find the right combinations for ship components) Space, in-game right now, needs to be scrapped and completely re-thought.
- Lack of end game. This game needs end game content. There need to be the stable end game features PvP, Raiding, and Solo, but the question that keeps coming up in my mind and did when I played WoW was, "Why should I go back to ___________?" What is there to do on Tython/Korriban for level 50's? Why aren't there zones on each planet for end game? This would be a perfect place to use RvR, Solo questing, Heroics, and exploration. I see this in almost every MMO I've ever played, you reach max level and never go back. Why? Wouldn't it be more efficient and effective to return to the games roots and build on them? Maybe there is a mystery that a player didn't discover until the end of their class quest that takes them back and starts a new search. It just seems like a waste to make single planets for a single purpose and never see them again, it makes them dead and limits a players options for gameplay unnecessarily.
I could go on, but I've said enough.
----------------------------
Some of this such as the endgame stuff I can't comment, however the static world does stand out.
Also what it seems I wanted in regards to planet events would be world phasing. So it is doable and something that I think would greatly benefit the game.
Meicyn
Gold Member
Um, what? DC Universe Online uses an action/RPG styled active combat system where you perform combos like you would in something like Phantasy Star Online, performing different combos depending on your sequence of pressing and/or holding down buttons. You could actively dodge attacks by using maneuvers such as rolling.orangecaramel said:
Part of me thinks you're trolling. The two games have combat systems that are nothing alike.
How do i cancell my pre-order (Origin)?
If November is the launch month, there won't be enough stuff to fix the game's negatives and i have no interested playing a game months waiting stuff to get added/fixed.
I did regret and think pre-ordering TOR was wrong thing to do right after i pre-ordered, maybe i should've listened to that instict.
EDIT besides, i have a bunch of other games to play and i don't think i want to play another WoW. "End game" should not exists as it is. Lacking anything to do at max level is not acceptable either.
If November is the launch month, there won't be enough stuff to fix the game's negatives and i have no interested playing a game months waiting stuff to get added/fixed.
I did regret and think pre-ordering TOR was wrong thing to do right after i pre-ordered, maybe i should've listened to that instict.
EDIT besides, i have a bunch of other games to play and i don't think i want to play another WoW. "End game" should not exists as it is. Lacking anything to do at max level is not acceptable either.
The only thing keeping me going are the cut scenes (and just barely), which are your typical Bioware fare. Everything else is completely safe and pedestrian. This formula has been beaten into the fucking ground, I'm so sick of companies tweaking a couple things with it and then shipping it out, thinking that's what players want. And of course they're shocked and surprised when their subscriber numbers plummet after the first month. The way forward is so clear, everyone can see it but no one wants to put any money behind it. The MMO market is turning into the JRPG market.
BattleMonkey
Member
Spire said:
Playing it safe isn't why other games have failed, almost every mmo has suffered countless issues that caused it to crash and burn. RIFT is one of biggest current success and it played it safer than most other games, but they put out a quality product without the early month problems everyone else has had.
BattleMonkey
Member
LAUGHTREY said:
They say they got lot more, but not testing them seems they might not make launch
No, it is not boring. It is amazing from the get go. This is my positive impression without going into detail.Chiave said:
Most of the complaints about this game I've read are complaints you could have about any MMORPG on the market. Some people just don't like the fact that it's structured like an MMO, and expected something completely different. If that's you, sorry. For some reason people expect the MMORPG to change radically in ways that other genres don't. Maybe it has more potential as a genre that it's not living up to that only people on the internet can fathom, I dunno.
However, if you are cool with the kind of game this is you're in luck, because it's the best one I've ever played. The story stuff works and it adds another "I'll just play until I do this..." element to the MMO formula. The worlds, lore, characters, dialog, and story decisions are what you would expect from a good BioWare game. There are tons of smart details in the design that I've been impressed with which makes me trust what they're doing. End game is wait and see, but I think the foundation is solid and there's nothing keeping them from making it work.
Jarmel said:
What are you basing that on? The fact TOR isn't World of Warcraft as it is now 'out of the box'?
What everyone is playing right now is at least 2 builds behind what the devs are working on, they do have their own in studio testing and build quality can take massive leaps when a product is this far advanced into it's development cycle. Many of the complaints seem to be minor issues, cut scene camera angles and minor graphical anomalies - these are the things that are last to be looked at, bugs that are regarded as 'C' class - low priority in the face of quest/content/stability.
From reading many of the posts here some people seem completely fucking deluded about what TOR is and supposed to be, BioWare have been pushing it at as their STORY driven MMO (god knows they say on their trailers enough). KOTOR I can play with friends, sold me from the get go - people need to re-evaluate their expectations on what they are supposed to be playing.
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