Dangansona
Member
Rayman > Banjo-Kazooie
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Still upset about the Smash Fighter Ballot
- Thread starter Korosenai
- Start date
Nice. Ta.
Rayman's already in there (somewhat).
I'll admit that I expected more characters to come out of the Smash Ballot. Nintendo probably could have done more to align people's expectations. I mean, in the end Corrin looks like he'll be a fun character to play as, but no one asked for him, and when you have a ballot box with character suggestions from vocal fans RIGHT THERE it seems a bit off to go back to a series which is already very over represented in the game.
Sure, if the IP ever gets acquired by Nintendo.
Yeah dude what the hell is their thought process that they add the most characters from their most popular series. TOTALLY DISGUSTING.
/s
Steve Youngblood
Member
Well, I can tell you that Fire Emblem's representation in Smash isn't really an indication of its popularity relative to other Nintendo franchises. Unless you think that the series that was almost dead prior to Awakenings is now the second biggest Nintendo franchise.
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
I wanted Snake and Shantae the most, after Roy.
Coffee Dog
Banned
I don't have a problem with Fire Emblem representation when you take out the clones. We have the old ass first protagonist who's a light swordsman, the slower claymore weilding protagonist from when it went 3D, a wizard that fights with tomes from the smash hit game that basically rebooted the series, and a shapeshifting dragonman with a chainsaw from the newest entry. That's 4 characters with different playstyles that represent a fairly old and long running Nintendo series, that is currently selling very well.
It's just that Lucina and Roy muddy everything up by being easy to make roster filler.
It's just that Lucina and Roy muddy everything up by being easy to make roster filler.
You really don't understand why people would take issue with the most overrepresented franchise in the game getting another character when there are plenty of franchises with great possible characters that are either underrepresented or not represented at all?
ShockingAlberto
Member
I do agree that franchises should only get character slots based on their popularity, which is why I hope Sakurai removes all Metroid characters, Zelda should have fewer characters with every iteration, and all Mario characters should only come from NSMB.
DecoReturns
Member
You enjoy this don't you.
TDLink
Member
I think there are too many people concerned over franchise representation rather than if a character is actually suitable to the game. Yeah there are a lot of Fire Emblem characters, but Corrin looks like he has a great moveset that is unique and will lend itself well to this game.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Just to be clear (not that you were calling me out), I don't have a problem with Corrin. I just wanted to respond to a post that seemed to insinuate that Fire Emblem's representation made sense based on its popularity.
Dangansona
Member
Preach, brother.
RomanceDawn
Member
I really wanted Little Mac in this game, I thought he was one of the few Nintendo characters that really deserved to be immortalized in Smash. I really really wanted Dixie Kong and Ridley as well. Then of course I wanted Mewtwo back! Those 4 were my top everything!
Despite Tropical Freeze being released in a horrible limbo(unlike Awakening) and Sakurai giving us fairly reasonable reasons why Ridley was made as a hazard I'm cool with the ballot and every character choice before and after.
I mean there was sooooooooooooooo much good stuff in the base game I'd feel bad about not being grateful. Not that anyone should adopt my stance or not feel betrayed or what have you.
And while I honestly did expect a few more from the ballot I feel like Cloud was definitely taken from our choices and had he been the last character shown off I would have totally believe him to be that silent majority character.
What ever the case our voices were heard and I am an extremely patient person. With my decade of Chinese martial arts I've transcended beyond earthly urges to get what I want right now. I know that in due time, I'll get my playable Ridley, Dixie and to a lesser extent K Rool.
I mean think about the costumes that we got. Pretty loud fan basses for certain characters did get a consolation prize and I have a good feeling they were chosen because Sakurai understood how popular they were. K Rool, Ashley, Loydd, Knuckles, Tails, Geno, Takamaru and I'm sure a ton more. With that said I think its a super duper good chance we'll see a bunch of these as playbles next time around. Really surprised about no Isaac costume though.
Despite Tropical Freeze being released in a horrible limbo(unlike Awakening) and Sakurai giving us fairly reasonable reasons why Ridley was made as a hazard I'm cool with the ballot and every character choice before and after.
I mean there was sooooooooooooooo much good stuff in the base game I'd feel bad about not being grateful. Not that anyone should adopt my stance or not feel betrayed or what have you.
And while I honestly did expect a few more from the ballot I feel like Cloud was definitely taken from our choices and had he been the last character shown off I would have totally believe him to be that silent majority character.
What ever the case our voices were heard and I am an extremely patient person. With my decade of Chinese martial arts I've transcended beyond earthly urges to get what I want right now. I know that in due time, I'll get my playable Ridley, Dixie and to a lesser extent K Rool.
I mean think about the costumes that we got. Pretty loud fan basses for certain characters did get a consolation prize and I have a good feeling they were chosen because Sakurai understood how popular they were. K Rool, Ashley, Loydd, Knuckles, Tails, Geno, Takamaru and I'm sure a ton more. With that said I think its a super duper good chance we'll see a bunch of these as playbles next time around. Really surprised about no Isaac costume though.
Steve Youngblood
Member
To me, whoever we get at this point is just gravy. There's never going to be a "perfect" roster as they're never going to satisfy the wish list of everybody. So I get that people are going to want their own picks to get in. But there's 58 characters in this game. Even if you don't count the clones, there's still a very, very healthy amount there. Whatever problems may exist in the game, nitpicking the roster should not be very high on the list.
I don't really care how many characters there are. Adding shitty unnecessary characters is a bad thing no matter what, especially when they literally have a list of the characters people actually want.
I honestly would have preferred no DLC character over a character who was blatantly chosen based on marketing and Sakurai's personal bias.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Great. I'm fine with Corrin being in. Always a pleasure chatting with you.
Ok, I'll bite (but really Gaf, I really have to defend bloody Castlevania now?).
You both really mean to say that Castlevania and Simon were not on par with Super Mario Bros., Zelda and Mega Man back in the NES and SNES days? I think they were, both in terms of game quality and brand recognition. Castlevania is easily one of the first franchises people would mention when they think NES games and it still pops up in top 10 lists of that era. As such Konami couldn't have had a better representation, not even (the almost equally iconic/historically important) Snake (who barely exists on Nintendo platforms anymore) imo.
Granted, it/he isn't anymore now but the same goes for Mega Man. The nice thing about Smash is that it can be a museum as well as a marketing tool for new(er) games and in that light, Simon definitely deserves to be there next to his (S)NES brethren.
I'm wasting my time apparently if people are actually trying to argue that Castlevania (and Simon) is and always has been irrelevant though...
...Doesn't it? Fire Emblem Fates is absurdly popular in Japan right now, more so than pretty much any of their IPs barring Splatoon(?), Pokemon and Mario
It's ridiculously hot right now.
Magnet_Man
Member
Why not say Duck Hunt or Ice Climbers man?? Why you gotta hurt me like that?
BlueEyedBeast
Neo Member
Okay, how about this as a solution:
In the 3DS version of Smash, each franchise only get's 2 characters from each series as representatives.
In the Wii U version, more representatives are chosen for series with more popularity.
That way each series gets equal representation in one game and larger series have more representation in the other.
I think a system like this has worked before. Why not now?
In the 3DS version of Smash, each franchise only get's 2 characters from each series as representatives.
In the Wii U version, more representatives are chosen for series with more popularity.
That way each series gets equal representation in one game and larger series have more representation in the other.
I think a system like this has worked before. Why not now?
I'm not serious about anything I just said.
ShockingAlberto
Member
It is good that you said this so I can never take you seriously in these conversations. Thanks!
I'd really liked to have gotten Wonder Red and maybe Chibi-Robo in, and I'm pretty disappointed that we never got some of the better stages from the 3DS version as DLC.
That being said, I'm super happy that we got Bayonetta and even though I have no interest in Corrin (or, to be honest, Lucas, Roy, and kinda Cloud?) I'm fine with them being in, and I expect people will want them more after Fates is actually out anyway.
That being said, I'm super happy that we got Bayonetta and even though I have no interest in Corrin (or, to be honest, Lucas, Roy, and kinda Cloud?) I'm fine with them being in, and I expect people will want them more after Fates is actually out anyway.
Idol master game
Steve Youngblood
Member
Ridiculously hot? Best numbers I can find are that it sold over a half a million in Japan. For the current climate, I can concede that it's a really good number. But the notion that it's the second biggest franchise for Nintendo and almost as big as Mario seems like quite a stretch. I think you need more data than just two 3DS games released over a three year span before elevating it to those levels given that the franchise was on its last legs when Smash 4 was in the conception phase. And in Japan, Fates was outsold by both Splatoon and Animal Crossing.
Mind you, this is kind of a tangent. I don't think that Sakurai has to justify franchise representation based on sales numbers. It's just as much as I am completely on board with the resurgence of the Fire Emblem franchise, I don't think that it's seeing such a meteoric rise that we can now safely call it Nintendo's second biggest franchise just yet.
Yes, "second best franchise" is definitely a huge stretch, and I wasn't trying to argue that Fire Emblem was on that level, but rather, the upwards momentum the franchise is currently experienced played a big part in Corrin's inclusion. Though I suppose that doesn't exactly explain the inclusion of Robin, Lucina and Roy.
Hero Prinny
Member
Should have been Hawlucha instead of corn. 
RIP Hawlucha, you got robbed not once, but twice. First by another fucking pikachu in pokken and then again by corn, a character no one asked for.
RIP Hawlucha, you got robbed not once, but twice. First by another fucking pikachu in pokken and then again by corn, a character no one asked for.I don't like another FE being added but I'd rather have an additional character to use (and Corrin is fun!). This is a silly mentality to have. Net plus over a negative or nothing, always.
I sincerely doubt Hawlucha was ever even considered for this game. Corrin has nothing to do with Hawlucha's absence.Should have been Hawlucha instead of corn.
Shouldn't the Mario characters come from Mario Kart?
Fire Emblem is popular in Japan, but it's far from the biggest. Last year alone Mario, Splatoon, Animal Crossing, and Rhythm Heaven sold more as far as Nintendo games are concerned. Corrin is just in because Sakurai thought they were cool (to be fair, they are) and it was convenient advertising in the west. Nothing about FE being Zelda tier.
Hero Prinny
Member
In my mind Hawlucha was going to be in but was cut for more fire emblem pandering and you have no evidence to say otherwise :'( RIP Hawlucha, you died for a pikachu posing as a wrestler and then again by corn.
Fire Emblem characters lend themselves to being part of a fighting game thanks to their designs, fan reaction and mechanics, whether the series is second or last place.
All characters are there for their potential, and Corrin is no exception. A transforming half dragon warrior using a chainsaw and morphing appendixes is not something other characters can provide.
All characters are there for their potential, and Corrin is no exception. A transforming half dragon warrior using a chainsaw and morphing appendixes is not something other characters can provide.
Personally, I think the obvious choices for characters are mostly covered now. Mii and Wii Fit Trainer cover recent successes. Villager covers a hit franchise that was passed over in an earlier game. Little Mac and Duck Hunt represent classic games that still weigh heavily in public memory. Not to mention Pac-Man and Ryu.
Besides getting characters from other Touch Generations games, it's getting harder and harder to think of new franchises to add that aren't niche. And we did get a bunch of representation for popular niche games as well. Shulk, Robin, Mega Man, etc.
For some perspective, I'm pretty sure that Toad is one of the biggest requests. He was one of the biggest for the initial "who do you want if we make Smash 2" poll, and if you look at the ballot thread for GAF, he was one of the most popular there too. I'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure he's the biggest request from the earlier games that still hasn't made it in.
Frankly, I'd imagine that we'd be hearing a lot of whining if another Mario character was announced as well. And I think Toad is phenomenally boring choice. Peach already covers Super Mario Bros 2.
At this point, I think we're looking for characters like Jin Saotome from Marvel Vs Capcom; the type of crossover character that wasn't expected or highly requested, but provides something interesting and new to the gameplay that more recognizable characters might not. I really like those sort of characters myself, and that's how I look at Bayonetta and Corrin.
Besides getting characters from other Touch Generations games, it's getting harder and harder to think of new franchises to add that aren't niche. And we did get a bunch of representation for popular niche games as well. Shulk, Robin, Mega Man, etc.
For some perspective, I'm pretty sure that Toad is one of the biggest requests. He was one of the biggest for the initial "who do you want if we make Smash 2" poll, and if you look at the ballot thread for GAF, he was one of the most popular there too. I'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure he's the biggest request from the earlier games that still hasn't made it in.
Frankly, I'd imagine that we'd be hearing a lot of whining if another Mario character was announced as well. And I think Toad is phenomenally boring choice. Peach already covers Super Mario Bros 2.
At this point, I think we're looking for characters like Jin Saotome from Marvel Vs Capcom; the type of crossover character that wasn't expected or highly requested, but provides something interesting and new to the gameplay that more recognizable characters might not. I really like those sort of characters myself, and that's how I look at Bayonetta and Corrin.
No, I understand that people would have preferred other, personal favourites over a character from a game series that just isn't their own most beloved series. (Or most popular in the world. It's popular enough I would say, but that's not my point.) I don't think the Smash Ballot was introduced to decide all upcoming DLC characters, and I don't think all DLC characters should be measured by how high they likely placed in the ballot. But I understand that people would personally want their own favourite to be in.
What I don't get is, that people "take issue" with it. What I don't get is the Corrin hate. You know, this right here:
What I don't get is people acting like Corrin was put in the game to spite them.
I think it's the same sort of phenomenon as when people think shovelware actually removes good games from a console library.
kunonabi
Member
Nintendo still has a few franchises that could use representation with Splatoon, Advance Wars and Rhythm Heaven being the most notable. Third Party wise Koei Tecmo, Hudson, Konami are the big ones left. SNK, Level-5, and Taito are the only other ones I could think of.
Out of those Castlevania representing Konami is really the biggest omission at this point. Putting a Belmont in would pretty much complete Smash and everything else would just be a bonus.
Im pretty curious how dragon quest did in the japanese poll since it would seem like an obvious choice down the road as well.
For Splatoon, I do think it'll be there if there's another Smash game. I think the only reason Inkling wasn't there already is because of when the game was released versus when the DLC was started. There was already the possibility that it would bomb, or maybe they weren't so big on the poll in the first month or so because the game wasn't out.
Rhythm Heaven is a Touch Generations game, which I mentioned. So is Brain Age and Nintendogs.
Advance Wars is not a big series at all, and even Castlevania doesn't compare in popularity with Street Fighter 2 or Pac-Man. I think it still fits into niche territory.
Excitebike is very notable, and it lends itself to an incredibly offbeat moveset, so I'd be disappointed if it never showed up in Smash Bros. It's one of the more iconic NES games people tend to think of alongside Punch-Out!! and Duck Hunt, and it's received a few sequels over the years.
I think the only legacy character that really is missing Dixie Kong.
I mean if we're going by franchise popularity, we'd be buried in Wii Fit Trainers and Animal Crossing characters.
Thinking about it, Isabelle's probably another legacy character that should be in, but she has that AT problem.
I mean if we're going by franchise popularity, we'd be buried in Wii Fit Trainers and Animal Crossing characters.
Thinking about it, Isabelle's probably another legacy character that should be in, but she has that AT problem.
TriggerShy
Member
I still believe in Wonder Red, Ganon, Donbe/Hikari, and Sukapon.
Although, even though Capcom has two franchises, I think Monster Hunter would be great.
Although, even though Capcom has two franchises, I think Monster Hunter would be great.
Inklings + Splatoon stage(s) + Splatoon trophies + Splatoon music HAS to happen eventually. It's a total no-brainer given the popularity and sales of Splatoon. This is a case where Smash will probably benefit more from having the Inklings that the home series will benefit from being promoted by Smash unlike Bayonetta or Xenoblade. If Sakurai remains true to the mechanics (ink spreading etc) it'll be a pretty big task so I can understand why Inklings may not have ben an option for Wii/3DS Smash. If they're creating an NX version I expect that they'll include appealing extras and Inklings would fit the bill.
They supported Smash Wii U/3DS for a year after its release so that had to end eventually. I'm OK with how it turned out because it didn't seem as if we'd get six additional characters at first. Kind of a shame that three veterans didn't return but there shouldn't be any barriers to Ice Climbers on NX and hopefully they throw in Wolf too for completeness esp.since a new Star Fox game would have been released by then. Poor Snaku.
BTW, I'd love to see XBX Elma as a newcomer too. They could give her a special move to switch between Dual Swords and Dual Guns in battle and that would change her moveset. It'd be like the transforming character gimmick without a major model change. Have her wreck in a Skell for her final smash and she could have a pretty cool alt. costume too.
They supported Smash Wii U/3DS for a year after its release so that had to end eventually. I'm OK with how it turned out because it didn't seem as if we'd get six additional characters at first. Kind of a shame that three veterans didn't return but there shouldn't be any barriers to Ice Climbers on NX and hopefully they throw in Wolf too for completeness esp.since a new Star Fox game would have been released by then. Poor Snaku.
BTW, I'd love to see XBX Elma as a newcomer too. They could give her a special move to switch between Dual Swords and Dual Guns in battle and that would change her moveset. It'd be like the transforming character gimmick without a major model change. Have her wreck in a Skell for her final smash and she could have a pretty cool alt. costume too.
timetokill
Banned
I like that Bayonetta got in. Wasn't my first pick, but I liked the choice anyway.
The main one I want (Inkling) is as sure a bet as they get these days for the next installment or update so I'm not too annoyed.
The main one I want (Inkling) is as sure a bet as they get these days for the next installment or update so I'm not too annoyed.
I know, but that was 15 years ago. Ice Climbers and Excitebiker wouldn't be fighting for the same spot anymore. Sakurai has changed his mind plenty of times before, and Bowser Jr. is proof that a "rider" character works in Smash Bros. With that said, I honestly don't think it's going to happen, but there's nothing definitive preventing it.
fredrancour
Member
Alright! smash 5 can be the vehicles edition!
excitebike
daisy/waluigi sharing status as the mario kart character, fighting entirely from a kart (perhaps with some attacks involving one-handed swings with sporting goods
an advance wars CO riding an appropriate vehicle, or collection of vehicle sprites coming out in turn during different attacks.
a horseback fire emblem lord
call wolf link a vehicle and give us wolf link and midna.
king of red lions. no one aboard him. just king of red lions.
slippy aboard some mini team star fox vehicle.
i recognize that the only way i'm getting any of those things is if i become better at coding and 3d modelling and make an indie smash ripoff full of thinly-veiled parodies of everybody (except maybe the fire emblem lord).
Green Mamba
Member
Dixie's the only character I'm really pulling for now (well, outside of Ridley I guess) but I really do fear she's slipped through the cracks at every available moment and will never get her chance.