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Stop posting emulator screenshots when discussing graphics of older games

PetriP-TNT

Member
Jul 13, 2007
21,469
0
0
Finland
No, it didn't look anything like that back on the Playstation.


No really. I know that proper screenshots are hard to find and things generally look better in our memories, but Resident Evil didn't render at 4k on Sega Saturn with 16xMSAA nor did Donkey Kong Country have that sweet cartoon shader on it. And no, my CRT display didn't have scanlines that were visible from 3 metres away either.

I was just reminded of this fact by that low poly horror game thread but this happens every day. Is there a directcaptureswithactualhardware.com? There should be.

Edit: I am talking about screenshots that are clearly not possible on the original hardware, obviously.
Edit2: goddammit, I should have called them emulator bullshots in the title

TL;DR - Read the OP, it's like 20 words long
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
Jun 6, 2004
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CheesecakeRecipe

Stormy Grey
Mar 27, 2012
11,636
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I imagine it is mostly due to how simple grabbing a screenshot is from that. Framebuffer capturing on OG hardware, especially something that old, is a bit of a specialty.
 
Sep 13, 2009
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old console wars never die, they last forever ;p

but yeah, i have seen some pics posted not just here but other places of old games and i go "what, it doesn't look like that"
 

TomShoe

Banned
Oct 27, 2013
7,712
0
0
Hampton Roads, VA
I really don't get this logic. Normally we're discussing the game itself in terms of gameplay, it's not really about the graphics. Even when we do discuss graphics, it's more about art style than about the poly count itself. I think posting emulated screenshots is perfectly fine. If the OP wanted to discuss graphics in terms of what I just stated, then he should explicitly state it in the OP, otherwise, it should be fair game.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Jul 29, 2005
22,162
6
1,310
So you prefer shittier resolutions when you could look at something more appealing just because.

Alright

It usually comes up in old console comparison threads. Someone says the N64 had cleaner graphics and someone responds by linking a heavily filtered 4K bullshot from GT or something.
 
May 4, 2014
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To be fair, it can be pretty misleading to players who haven't played the game before. In this case it is the social equivelant to bull shots. Most people don't know you're posting a modded or refined image.

A friend of mine was just devastated (well, upset) by how Xenoblade Chronicles looked on his Wii on his HDTV because he had seen so many screenshots from Dolphin.

Somebody else I know was really upset to learn Wind Waker GC didn't have widescreen support. Later they bought WWHD for the Wii U, thinking that's where the screenshots had come from. To their surprise, WWHD looked completely different and not at all like the screenshots that inspired them to play the game.

Funny how Dolphin was the culprit both times. Or maybe not?
 

ugh_the_boot

Banned
Feb 24, 2013
1,700
0
0
Yea I completely agree with OP, infact I don't even like emulators because they are not endorsed by the orginal creators of the game so I still feel like they're illegal in some way. It bugs me when people even talk about emulators because they should be playing the games on the original systems or not at all lol. Dunno why I feel this way about them because I know in the long run they are a good way of preserving games and they can make the games look better and sometimes even add features like online play....but it bugs me nonetheless haha.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
Jul 4, 2004
35,734
0
0
I find this notion to be more than a little overblown. CRT's were a bit softer. Didn't really make things look better though.
I still own a CRT. It's night and day.

Playing sub native res on a monitor is like being stabbed in the eyes by pixels.
 

Tesseract

Crushed by Thanos
Dec 7, 2008
61,081
69,326
1,875
No, it's to break the rose tinted glasses and remind you that that game really didn't look that good.

it did, only not as clean. our minds filled in the blanks because it's all we knew.

that's kinda what makes nostalgia fun, it dignifies memories.
 

Cyrano

Member
Dec 20, 2010
5,431
6
800
This isn't really a realistic request. Probably not for the reason you're thinking either. The primary reason is due to the fact that if they are scaled down to their original rendering resolutions, you can't make out many fine details one way or another regardless of how long you sit and stare at them.

The rendering resolution of an NES is 256 x 240. That is tiny given most modern screens are now 1920 x 1080.

If you want to discuss graphics, you have to be able to see them, and telling people to change their screen resolutions to 640 x 480 or 800 x 600 is even less realistic.
 

Kindred Dread

Neo Member
Nov 21, 2014
67
0
0
No, it's to break the rose tinted glasses and remind you that that game really didn't look that good.

What rose-tinted glasses? Sorry bud, just cause you're stuck in the past doesn't mean everyone else is. It's pretty obvious when a game really looked like that or not in the day. If I want to enjoy my 64-bit games without feeling like my eyes are made out of molded glass I'd do so, and post plenty of screenshots while I'm at it.

It usually comes up in old console comparison threads. Someone says the N64 had cleaner graphics and someone responds by linking a heavily filtered 4K bullshot from GT or something.

That's different, that's a genuine argument- no, someone shouldn't be posting that kind of screenshot. But this is different. OP just wants us to stop doing something he doesn't like.
 

Paz

Member
Jan 16, 2010
2,721
0
770
www.assaultandroidcactus.com
Kinda hilarious to see people talking about how much worse the old stuff looked and also how much better the old stuff looked, both lines of thinking are correct :p

Scanline effects are not a good replication of interlaced video output, LCD's can make non native resolution images look like shit (and play horribly with their input latency issues compared to CRT) and some old games even had graphics/colour palettes designed around the way we used lossy video connection cables.

But at the same time the perfect anti aliasing and incredible effects of increased native rendering on 3D scenes isn't indicative either!

Getting an authentic representation of old games is hard.
 
May 4, 2014
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This isn't really a realistic request. Probably not for the reason you're thinking either. The primary reason is due to the fact that if they are scaled down to their original rendering resolutions, you can't make out many fine details one way or another regardless of how long you sit and stare at them.

The rendering resolution of an NES is 256 x 240. That is tiny given most modern screens are now 1920 x 1080.

If you want to discuss graphics, you have to be able to see them, and telling people to change their screen resolutions to 640 x 480 or 800 x 600 is even less realistic.

I would say that there is sort of detectable threshold of what is reasonable and what isn't. Posting a higher resolution image from a game originally rendered at an impossibly small resolution doesn't misrepresent the game. I'm not going to look at an 800x600 screencap of a 2D Super Mario Bros and be disappointed when I play it for the first time because the game itself isn't being misrepresented.

But taking a 3D game that originally rendered at a perfectly visible 480p and upscaling it to 1080p does make a huge difference. Aspect ratio changes drastically, details change, clarity changes, and that is more what OP means, I think. Let alone adding in custom textures and stuff.
 

Aarglefarg

Member
Jul 27, 2013
5,106
0
0
When comparing graphics or something like that, definitely. Just as a matter of putting in the effort to be accurate, like trying to not get bullshots.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Dec 5, 2005
51,668
6
0
If you maintain the original style of the game, I don't have a problem with it. Original resolutions, scanlines or not... it's pretty close.

It's the rendering at high resolutions or widescreen settings that are a problem. I don't even play emulator games that way.
 

z1ggy

Member
Nov 5, 2013
1,301
0
475
I think no emu pics should happen when we compare hardware platforms and their output. Otherwise, i don´t see why it should mattter.
 

Cyrano

Member
Dec 20, 2010
5,431
6
800
I would say that there is sort of detectable threshold of what is reasonable and what isn't. Posting a higher resolution image from a game originally rendered at an impossibly small resolution doesn't misrepresent the game. I'm not going to look at an 800x600 screencap of a 2D Super Mario Bros and be disappointed when I play it for the first time because the game itself isn't being misrepresented.

But taking a 3D game that originally rendered at a perfectly visible 480p and upscaling it to 1080p does make a huge difference. Aspect ratio changes drastically, details change, clarity changes, and that is more what OP means, I think. Let alone adding in custom textures and stuff.
What is the detectable threshold? I mean I don't really have a problem with upscaling 3D graphics, given that vector-based graphics are made entirely for the purpose of being malleable in such a manner. That's part of what makes them visually useful--scalability. There is more trouble when dealing with that scalability against raster graphics, sure, but if you're using 3D models the intent is that they are scalable (and near as I can tell, should be scaled to meet the needs of the user).

Telling people to not scale scalable graphics seems anathema to having them in the first place.
 

ItsTheNew

I believe any game made before 1997 is "essentially cave man art."
Mar 26, 2013
1,604
29
630
USA
on top of no emulator bullshots, PS1 games should only be shown in gif's to demonstrate constant texture warping / jittery polygons.
 

Jaeger

Member
Jul 14, 2013
8,182
2
0
Bama
unodenosotros.tumblr.com
No, it didn't look anything like that back on the Playstation.


No really. I know that proper screenshots are hard to find and things generally look better in our memories, but Resident Evil didn't render at 4k on Sega Saturn with 16xMSAA nor did Donkey Kong Country have that sweet cartoon shader on it. And no, my CRT display didn't have scanlines that were visible from 3 metres away either.

I was just reminded of this fact by that low poly horror game thread but this happens every day. Is there a directcaptureswithactualhardware.com? There should be.

What about direct captured, unaltered screenshots with zero filters, and no shaders of whatever the heck? Because most images I've personally seen posted here are just that. Not everything looked like complete shit. Some stuff actually looked good for the time.
 

Venfayth

Member
Apr 11, 2011
9,956
0
0
I find this notion to be more than a little overblown. CRT's were a bit softer. Didn't really make things look better though.

"better" maybe not, subjectivity and all that

tons of games had art literally designed FOR the properties of a CRT though
 
Dec 13, 2013
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And what about the photo mode images many people post?

Most people don't know that driveclub & co don't look nearly this good in the real game. And it is hard to find real in-game images of some current gen games, only bullshots and photomode images.
 

BHK3

Banned
Dec 18, 2011
5,891
0
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28
A paper street house
I hate CRT filters so damn much, it ruins the entire picture with how HEAVY it is in emulators. Only game I've seen that looked good with a CRT filter was the Metal Slug release on Steam, that actually adds a soft look to it without destroying my eyes.
 

Valnen

Member
Aug 4, 2009
20,974
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0
35
Citrus Heights
I still own a CRT. It's night and day.

Playing sub native res on a monitor is like being stabbed in the eyes by pixels.

I just want to echo your post. The best display I ever owned for old games was this. I'd love to own another just like it. I beat several old Final Fantasy games on that thing and it was bliss. The one thing I don't miss about that old TV is how heavy and bulky it was. My back could not take moving one of those things around anymore. It's hard enough for me to move the new LCD's that weigh substantially less.

No amount of filters or emulation tricks can ever compare to the experience that was playing on native hardware on a quality CRT. It's a shame it's nearly impossible to find a good one in good working condition now.
 

Dunkley

Member
Jun 17, 2014
5,335
0
0
Only if the graphics are relevant to the discussion or if the graphics emulation is inaccurate to how the game looked on actual hardware (*cough* PCSX2 in Hardware Mode / Mupen64 without accurate Graphics plugins *cough*)

I think it's pretty pathetic though if someone tries to defend any game's visuals (most notably, Xenoblade) by posting emulator screenshots. Anything outside of what resolution/hardware the developer intended and made the game for is irrelevan on such discussions, but that's just my opinion.

Also Xenoblade looks pretty even as a jaggy low resolution mess to me, the art direction speaks miles for me itself
 

Overside

Banned
Dec 28, 2014
3,060
0
0
Only if the graphics are relevant to the discussion or if the graphics emulation is inaccurate to how the game looked on actual hardware (*cough* PCSX2 in Hardware Mode / Mupen64 without accurate Graphics plugins *cough*)

I think it's pretty pathetic though if someone tries to defend any game's visuals (most notably, Xenoblade) by posting emulator screenshots. Anything outside of what resolution/hardware the developer intended and made the game for is irrelevan on such discussions, but that's just my opinion.

Also Xenoblade looks pretty even as a jaggy low resolution mess to me, the art direction speaks miles for me itself

I dont think most people who do this even remember what blade actually looked like anymore, because of the mass proliferation of unmarked dolphin shots of the game. Most of them post shots of the hd texture pack.

But it makes older games objectively better

This honestly does little for me. I just feel like it over exposes the geometry and textures.

I mean, the iq nice, but its still the same textures, and the same geometry, and now their shortcomings are REALLY noticable.
 

playXray

Gold Member
Mar 29, 2014
1,710
51
595
UK
I really don't get this logic. Normally we're discussing the game itself in terms of gameplay, it's not really about the graphics. Even when we do discuss graphics, it's more about art style than about the poly count itself. I think posting emulated screenshots is perfectly fine.

I see where you're coming from with this but I agree with the OP. I've seen so many threads where people are discussing which console had the best graphics etc only for a whole bunch of people to come along and post emulated screenshots as evidence to back up their screenshot.

Don't get me wrong, I am fine with emulated screenshots in general, but I understand the OP's concern.
 
May 9, 2013
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I think that's kind of silly thing to get upset about, an old grainy image stripped from the internet does a game more of a disservice than an inaccurate emulated screenshot. Neither are perfect but at least one is visually appealing.