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Streaming Will Not Define Gaming On Next-Gen Xbox And PS5, Says Hellpoint Developer.

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
https://gamingbolt.com/streaming-wi...gen-xbox-and-ps5-says-hellpoint-developer#nnn

Speaking to Marc-André Jutras, a veteran of Ubisoft and Activision, having worked on multiple AAA games in the past, and currently working with brand new studio Cradle Games on the stark looking science fiction RPG Hellpoint, we decided to ask him what he felt about the future of streaming as a means of games delivery and consumption for the industry and the medium.

“I know that in some countries of the world that kind of streaming is becoming more popular. I know in Brazil there is a streaming company that is very popular, because people don’t have money to buy a console, and would rather pay $10 a month and play a variety of games by streaming,” he said. “I think it will become more popular, but I don’t think it will replace proper hardware. Because playing Call of Duty on streaming? That just doesn’t work. When you consider internet infrastructure, it means that instead of you clicking a button and getting the feedback on your screen, you have 100ms of lag for the input, another 100ms of lag for the output, as the data travels to and from your client, and if the host machine processing the data also has its own delay, then there’s another 100ms or so of latency added. Can you imagine playing Call of Duty with that kind of latency? Where it takes 100ms for the server to just know you are firing a gun?

“I think it works well with offline games. But the moment you take something online, like a shooter where you need a split second reaction, it doesn’t work. So will it be popular? I’m not sure.”

One of the things we have heard, however, is that the companies investing in streaming this time around are trying to sidestep these kinds of issues. So we asked him if he felt that Sony and Microsoft, for example, were equipped to deal with these problems. According to him, these are not problems you can throw money at to make them go away

“The problem is that it’s not something you can suddenly throw money at and make the problem disappear. The network latency in the last 20 years hasn’t moved much. We are limited by the speed of light when it comes to this in the end. The data from your computer to your router to your neighbourhood ISP to whatever switch to node to node to the server farm… you will end up with lag, there’s nothing you can do about it.”

Streaming, then, will not define the next generation of game consoles—rather, it will be a means to expand the reach of gaming into new markets, like the aforementioned Brazil, as well as India and China.

“No, it will offer games to a new market that can’t buy consoles [at the level of sales that happen where console gaming is popular like in the USA], like China and India, and to those who don’t have hundreds of bucks to buy a PlayStation,” he said. “But if for $10 a month, they can play 10% of the PlayStation catalog that works well with streaming, that’s awesome, and it’s a lot of revenue for Sony as well. And it makes sense for Sony to have PS5 be backward compatible too, because it opens up thousands of games for the streaming catalog.”
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
I agree with the online shooter part. Some offline game like ass creed is probably a better fit than cod.

I wonder if there is a difference between 30fps and 60. Does latency feel worse at 30 vs 60?
 

HeresJohnny

Member
So all these rumors Microsoft is going to make a chap streaming only box for people to stream games from on the cheap won’t play games like Call ofDutyor Fartnite?

Goodnight, sweet prince.
 
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pr0cs

Member
There are a number of good videos showing the existing streaming services simply are not good when compared to a physical device. Slow or turned based games would be fine but anything that requires quick reactions won't be playable anywhere in the near future
 

HeresJohnny

Member
There are a number of good videos showing the existing streaming services simply are not good when compared to a physical device. Slow or turned based games would be fine but anything that requires quick reactions won't be playable anywhere in the near future
Well, when you have entire genres that would not be playable on a streaming only devic, that device is as good as dead.
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
So all these rumors Microsoft is going to make a chap streaming only box for people to stream games from on the cheap won’t play games like Call ofDutyor Fartnite?

Goodnight, sweet prince.

My guess it that it will run everything, but you have to deal with the latency.
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
Won’t matter if it doesn’t play it well. You know anyone who plays Fortnite that wants a semi-playable version of Fortnite due to latency?

If your goal is to play fast paced games like CoD and Fortnite you have other alternatives. That's why they're developing two consoles with local hardware.
 

HeresJohnny

Member
If your goal is to play fast paced games like CoD and Fortnite you have other alternatives. That's why they're developing two consoles with local hardware.
So will they have a chart that says, here’s the shit you can play, and here’s the shit you can’t.? Good luck with that.
 
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HeresJohnny

Member
What about semi fast games, or platformers? You gonna have a whole punch list of shit that will technically play on it but won’t be worth a shit?
 

HeresJohnny

Member
No, they won't. The xCloud console will have a tiny bit of latency in every game. Most people are aware of that.
The developer makes it sound like there’s a lot more than just a little bit of latency. It sounds like entire genres won’t work on this thing.

He says, quote “it doesn’t work” with online games requiring split second reflexes.
 
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Gamezone

Gold Member
The developer makes it sound like there’s a lot more than just a little bit of latency. It sounds like entire genres won’t work on this thing.

He says, quote “it doesn’t work” with online games requiring split second reflexes.

The streaming console will probably be the cheapest console by a huge margin. People can't expect a premium experience. The choice is already there on PlayStation, and I don't see people complaining.
 

cdthree

Member
If Microsoft thinks they have it solved at a technical level, I believe them. Still think data caps are what is going to ultimately kill Xcloud. Xcloud for business, now probably will take off.
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
If Microsoft thinks they have it solved at a technical level, I believe them. Still think data caps are what is going to ultimately kill Xcloud. Xcloud for business, now probably will take off.

The world is bigger than the US. In my country (Norway) data caps has never been a thing.
 

cdthree

Member
The world is bigger than the US. In my country (Norway) data caps has never been a thing.

This is true my friend. I envy you. Unfortunately Microsoft is a US centric focused company that needs Google to find Norway and the rest of the world on Google maps. 😁
 

Pallas

Member
If anyone can solve the latency issues or at least improve it greatly, it’ll either be Microsoft, Google or Amazon, and whoever figures it out first will reap the benefits.
 

HeresJohnny

Member
The streaming console will probably be the cheapest console by a huge margin. People can't expect a premium experience. The choice is already there on PlayStation, and I don't see people complaining.
Is your game running in an acceptable fashion considered a premium experience now? Define what premium is.

And while this is already available on PlayStation, they haven’t released a console reliant on it, nor has there been a PR campaign waged to make it seem like streaming is going to be a make or break feature next gen.
 

HeresJohnny

Member
This is true my friend. I envy you. Unfortunately Microsoft is a US centric focused company that needs Google to find Norway and the rest of the world on Google maps. 😁
Not only that, for the Xbox, the US is it’s single most important territory because it’s the one it is most competitive in.
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
Is your game running in an acceptable fashion considered a premium experience now? Define what premium is.

And while this is already available on PlayStation, they haven’t released a console reliant on it, nor has there been a PR campaign waged to make it seem like streaming is going to be a make or break feature next gen.

Streaming isn`t going to be a make or break feature.

Phil Spencer said:

There are certain scenarios where a stream game is the best answer. On a console the best scenario for you is to download that game and play. If you are on a PC that`s capable of download and play that game, download and play that game. Not all devices are capable of playing the most demanding games that we see here on the show, so streaming is an option in those scenario, and there are some scenarios of like instant start and trials where maybe streaming on a device might be interesting, but I think for years and years the best way to play a game will be to download that game and play it.
 

HeresJohnny

Member
Streaming isn`t going to be a make or break feature.

Phil Spencer said:

There are certain scenarios where a stream game is the best answer. On a console the best scenario for you is to download that game and play. If you are on a PC that`s capable of download and play that game, download and play that game. Not all devices are capable of playing the most demanding games that we see here on the show, so streaming is an option in those scenario, and there are some scenarios of like instant start and trials where maybe streaming on a device might be interesting, but I think for years and years the best way to play a game will be to download that game and play it.


I agree that it won’t be for the market, but it will be for a box that only streams games. Just seems like a huge mistake to tie the Xbox brand to a box that out of the gate can’t play high profile games and genres, at least not in any acceptable fashion. Not the way to start off a generation imo.
 
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ZywyPL

Banned
Of course not, the upcoming generation will be all about testing the waters - tweaking the servers, protocols, trying out different service/subscription models and so on, the next decade will still be primarily based around the physical consoles, with streaming being a new, additional alternative.
 

Shin

Banned
Don't need a developer to tell you that, if the state of the internet and/or tech still as is after so many years of inception +1 year because of game consoles isn't going to flip the world around.
Not sure what's with all the buzz around streaming suddenly, is it because of Google or is it the current trend to roll with because MS said mentioned xCloud or whatever?
Be realistic, you'll be less disappointed then.
 

ANIMAL1975

Member
Is this a premium service for the good people that live in the cities? Because in my country as soon as you get to the suburbs you will be gifted with adsl net in old telephone lines, and 12 mega speed if you are near the phone service station lol! Now pull your imagination and picture the countryside... 🤢 Yes, it's like that.
And this in a west industrialized European country by the sea! Good luck rest of the world, and good luck with that streaming sh****t!
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
The first and only time I’ve found streaming a game “acceptable” was surprisingly the free Google Streaming of Assasins Creed. I’m kinda shocked how well it worked overal.
 

quickwhips

Member
This is true my friend. I envy you. Unfortunately Microsoft is a US centric focused company that needs Google to find Norway and the rest of the world on Google maps. 😁
I live in America and have no data caps. Not everyone is going to have those problems. And not everyone is going to hit datacaps if they did.
 

DonF

Member
Agreed wholeheartedly, streaming is barely viable in the most well connected areas. A streaming only platform would be a fucking disaster, would sell less than the wii u.
 

Rayderism

Member
I've had a few unique ideas about how streaming (or the cloud) could be used in games, but at the same time, I'm kind of against the reliance of a server to play a game, especially a single player game. Not to mention how some are limited in internet access, although some of my ideas would just mean a lessened experience for those people. And personally, I don't play MP games at all. So I'm hesitant to even throw any ideas out there as the industry would (well....might) fly with the idea and I'd get nothing. As I'm no programmer, I'm not even sure how viable my ideas would even be, but they seem reasonable and possible to me.
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
The world is bigger than the US. In my country (Norway) data caps has never been a thing.

I am in the U.S. (NYC) and thank God I have Verizon fios which has no data caps. Some do but not all the companies in the U.S. have data caps.

As for streaming not being viable even in most well connected areas. Ppl must be super sensitive or something. When I tried PSNow free trial and I had a 50mb download 25 upload connection most of the games I played I swore were from a disc, no crazy latency like ppl keep mentioning. I know it depends on a person's connection but at tht time mine wasnt good. I have also share played games like Driveclub and had minimal issues. 1gig connections are growing in popularity and reaching more ppl in the U.S. and I think anyone with 100mb and up will be fine based off my experience. .
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Finally, a developer is honest about Streaming and is not trying to shove fake hopes down unreasonable people's throats.
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
I am in the U.S. (NYC) and thank God I have Verizon fios which has no data caps. Some do but not all the companies in the U.S. have data caps.

As for streaming not being viable even in most well connected areas. Ppl must be super sensitive or something. When I tried PSNow free trial and I had a 50mb download 25 upload connection most of the games I played I swore were from a disc, no crazy latency like ppl keep mentioning. I know it depends on a person's connection but at tht time mine wasnt good. I have also share played games like Driveclub and had minimal issues. 1gig connections are growing in popularity and reaching more ppl in the U.S. and I think anyone with 100mb and up will be fine based off my experience. .

Sure, but quick reaction games like CoD MP and Street Fighter might e a different story.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
What!?

High data rate, high latency and poor image quality won't define next gen?

It will be an experiment that will grow for sure, but it is limited by infrastructure and thus costs. I'm like 20 miles from the heart of Silicon Valley and hit my monthly data cap almost every month. And that 22Mbps streaming gives 1080P with tons of artifacts. I know why they want to sell it, too sell us subscriptions.

But as always everyone is a bunch of sheep, they are clamoring for xCloud, Gamepass, disc-less systems, etc. Trying so hard to give the ownership and control to the mega companies that pretend to be their friend.
 

Blam

Member
I wish this guy was right but he's not. Shooters work fine in a streaming sense both Destiny and Cod run fine and input is not an issue in either title.
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
What!?

High data rate, high latency and poor image quality won't define next gen?

It will be an experiment that will grow for sure, but it is limited by infrastructure and thus costs. I'm like 20 miles from the heart of Silicon Valley and hit my monthly data cap almost every month. And that 22Mbps streaming gives 1080P with tons of artifacts. I know why they want to sell it, too sell us subscriptions.

But as always everyone is a bunch of sheep, they are clamoring for xCloud, Gamepass, disc-less systems, etc. Trying so hard to give the ownership and control to the mega companies that pretend to be their friend.

I would care more about this if they didn't allow publishers to screw up physical media. So many publishers are launching unplayable games on the Switch, and Activision did it with Spyro on XBO and PS4, and it wasn't even a size issue.
 

Fake

Member
100% agree. Besides, here in Brazil for example people got the wrong idea every bloody time. For streaming 'MOVIES', using at the base Brazil have the worst internet service ever... BUT people keeping forget apps like Youtube and Netflix work with a auto-resolution reducing the movie resolution if your internet is bad keep change constantly in favor of trying not to stop the playback of the video/movie. For videos and movies this trick its 'ok' because some people watch in smartphone screen and the difference in some cases are mininal for the consumers.
Well, how does this translate into games?
 
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FacelessSamurai

..but cry so much I wish I had some
All companies know it won’t define next gen, it’s only a way to reach more people and have a cheaper entry point, it’s not meant to replace local gaming. Even Ms’s cycloid bkades have other utilities than gaming to make them profitable as MS probably knows adoption will be slow.

Also, there are already online streaming services with games like Street Fighter and Overwatch, so it is doable. XCloud and the like won’t have limitations, all games will be available, and lag will be there depending on your connection and how close you are to the data center, but it will definitely be playable.
 
Fuck streaming. I know in modern times people sway away from having another piece of plastic under tv but I actually still like having something "tangible" when it comes to gaming.
 
That’s exactly what I was thinking in the OP. Yet I hear gamers hyping up streaming like it’s end of everything in next generation consoles. I figured it’s a nice option to have, but how is it going to replace traditional gaming if it’s laggy and unresponsive? Not to mention if your tv has input lag on top of that and some of them do have extra lag. Streaming is good with movies or even adequate with slower paced games, but I doubt it will be fully sufficient for fast paced shooters or fighters anytime soon.
 
Customers won’t like that, it’ll be a PR shitfest. “I bought the new Xbox for little Billy and it won’t play Fortnite and his Christmas is ruined!”
I would guess most people won't give a shit. Think of how many people already play on laggy ass TVs with heavy processing on their TV enabled and shitty wifi.
 
I would guess most people won't give a shit. Think of how many people already play on laggy ass TVs with heavy processing on their TV enabled and shitty wifi.

Like my nephews who live in the most rural part of our county with crappy internet their ping to Fortnite is already over 1k.

I can't imagine if you added in streaming games to that mix how bad it would be for people like them.
 
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