-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Street Fighter X Tekken: No disc based updates
- Thread starter Slamtastic
- Start date
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Sometimes I feel like I'm nuts. I much prefer disk based updates because they tend to offer much more value for my money. Also I've got no issues paying £25 for an updated version of something like Marvel in the same year given I've already put a ludicrous amount of hours into the game.
demosthenes
Member
Did they say this about IV or MvC?
sixteen-bit
Member
Probably.demosthenes said:
The Cartographer
Member
Can i trust who said this?
TreIII said:
At the moment, at least in terms of expanding the scene and making the genre important again, nothing is feasible except for Street Fighter. Tournaments are built around the Street Fighter brand. Don't even put Skullgirls, Dead or Alive, or even Soul Calibur games on the same level. I love King of Fighters XIII as much as the next guy, but right now Street Fighter is what's going to make fighting games a sustainable and growing genre again. It has to start from somewhere. All these people indignant over Capcom's decision to make a disc-based game instead of DLC are missing the big picture.
Buzzati said:
Well, again, if you're fine with the way Capcom is doing things? By all means, keep supporting them.
My message was largely directed towards those like me, alstein and others, who, if they truly are fed up with Capcom's way, to go out and see what else is out there.
ihearthawthats
Banned
title is misleading. all it says is that they're doing online updates similar to sf4. sure, super wasn't available as an online update, but ae and i'll assume that 2012 will be. so thats 2 for 3. whether or not there will be disc versions alongside the dlc versions has not been mentioned, but i shall assume its probable.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Buzzati said:
Pretty much what my thoughts are.
sixteen-bit
Member
What do you think?The Cartographer said:
TreIII said:
Sure, I get it that some people think Capcom's distribution decisions aren't in line with what they want. Yeah, I'm apparently one of the few on the internet that thinks Capcom is doing things right. A Disc-based UMvC has less fragmentation and is better for the community, tournament scene, and the consumer.
For hardcore fans of the genre, it's really frustrating to see campaigns to get people to collectively boycott Capcom products, or other ways to encourage people to ruin what took so long to create.
corporate cheerleader
Member
Buzzati said:
This fits better.
base shagohod
Member
The Cartographer said:
Nah.
doesn't really matter who said it, IMO.
sixteen-bit
Member
As much as I like fighting games, SFxTK looks really unappealing to me. Will not buy.
sixteen-bit
Member
Are you sure about that? If you ask me, they're stagnating now.Buzzati said:
DOAU set the bar for feature set in fighting games and that was what, 6 years ago on the Xbox1?
Nowadays you have games like MvC3 and that don't come close to having lobbies, spectating, replay save, etc. like DOAU did.
Slamtastic
Member
Not buying Capcom games only hurts Capcom, not other companies. Do you think they'll just ignore the sales of their own product, and either quit making games if Capcom fails, regardless of themselves doing well, or vice versa keep making games just because Capcom is even though they aren't selling?
The equation of the words "fighting game" to "Capcom" in everyone's minds in recent times is pretty disgusting. (See also "fighting game" Wednesdays)
The equation of the words "fighting game" to "Capcom" in everyone's minds in recent times is pretty disgusting. (See also "fighting game" Wednesdays)
SolarPowered
Member
You are voting for SFxT if you buy UMvC3.enzo_gt said:
Unless you think that your money is actually going to the Mahvel games(two million MvC3 sales=UMvC3) when you buy them. This is the same thing as the RE games on the Wii. They were made but all the cash they made from RE4, UC and DC just went towards RE5 anyway.
;_;
It drives me up a wall. I love me some mahvel and I can appreciate the effort put into Street Fighter IV, but damn it annoys me when people think like that.Slamtastic said:
sixteen-bit
Member
THANK YOU.Slamtastic said:
_dementia said:
I've been going to tournaments for awhile now - I think it's been 8 years. I'm not the best, but I play as a hobby. With no exaggeration, I can tell you that there are 5 to 10x as many people at a hotel venue than there were just 4 years ago. It just exploded - there hasn't been anything like this in the history of the genre.
I'm not going to argue what games set the bar for features. When it comes down to it, Capcom fighters - specifically Street Fighter 4 is one of the few huge reasons for the fighting game explosion. I've followed the genre for years, and have competed in non-Capcom games at tournaments multiple times - but Street Fighter has put this thing on another level. In this sense, the scene isn't stagnating, but growing and making things exciting again.
Buzzati said:
Sure.
Buzzati said:
Because apparently the only "hardcore fans" of the genre only play Capcom fighting games and NOTHING else... of course...
Buzzati said:
Oh please. There is no active campaign with people running around and trying to stop people from buying Capcom games. There is only currently just a few voicing their dissatisfaction with the current Capcom games and stating their willingness to either wait for the 3rd or Super or Ultimate version of the game or just skipping to another game by another company that is apparently "unworthy of being in the genre".
Buzzati said:
Ruin? All we're asking is for Capcom to step the fuck up. Their DLC bullcrap and excuses and statements just looks bad on their end. And they don't just do it for their fighting games, but for every other game under their control.
Stop acting like Capcom are the only ones making fighting games, son.
Yay more updates on this game that make it less friendly for the competitive environment.
I'm interested in how people ideally think fighting games should be updated. All through patches, no DLC? Piecemeal DLC where you have to buy every individual piece of everything but "you only have to buy what you want?" The SSFIV: AE strategy where it's a full update to the game but you can download it as DLC?
My ideal method: the same shit they've been doing. It's the best thing they can do for the competitive community that runs and attends tournaments. Super Street Fighter IV is the best update they've released this console generation. All you needed was the disc. It didn't matter whose Xbox or PS3 you put the game into, it had all the characters, all the balance changes, and was ready to go, so long as you had the game and a console.
Arcade Edition's strategy is second best, to me. It sucks because the majority of the community are cheap asses and got the DLC, so we have to get specific consoles from people with their information already recovered/available on the console, but there ARE people who got the disc version so it's easy to run at tournaments.
Marvel 3 is doing it mostly good, except for the DLC characters. Ultimate will have all the changes and characters available to everyone who plays Marvel 3, except Shuma and Jill again. Similar situation. Need hard drives and profiles that have DLC. A tad annoying but you can get away without having the DLC on a lot of setups since nobody plays those characters.
Worst strategies to me are piecemeal DLC, constant hotfixes, and even big patches every few months or so. Piecemeal DLC sucks because it costs a shitload of money if you want to have all the content on one setup for a tournament. It doesn't matter if you only want 1 out of 5 new characters, tournament setups need all of them. Plus it does everyone good to be able to try all the new characters and see if they might actually want to play as them, or so that they can learn about the characters and fight against/with them locally.
Anyhow, Blazblue, $8 a character? Yuck. $24 to get all the characters in CS1/CS2. Thank god Marvel 3 didn't make the 12 new characters available as DLC. All 14 DLC characters would've come to $70. Seventy. Dollars.
Hotfixes suck because there's no room to let the metagame grow. The metagame changes in MK9 like every month. PerfectLegend quit the game because his character was trashed overnight. They deal out nerfs like candy on halloween in that game. Stuff is changing all the time and it leaves no room for advanced metagame development. Vanilla MvC3 grew into it's own beast. While nerfs to god tier characters like Wolverine and Phoenix would've been nice, the game actually did grow, a LOT. Watch Season's Beatings Velocity if you have any doubt in this. None of it would've happened with a bunch of nerfs happening and glitches being removed and whatnot. DLC glitch IS vanilla MvC3. It's a part of the metagame, just like all the glitches and shit in MvC2.
Another thing people fail to realize is that Super Street Fighter IV is not Street Fighter IV with more characters. Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is not Marvel vs. Capcom 3 with more characters. Hell, AE isn't even the same game. These are NEW GAMES. With that, they can make major changes to gameplay systems (air X-Factor, X-Factor strength changes, Ultra 2's, new moves for characters, significant changes to existing moves, etc etc), whereas with little hotfixes and patches you cannot.
Arcade Edition got away with being DLC because they only added 4 new characters and made balance changes. No new anything else. And that is all you can play in Arcade Edition. No new trials or anything like that.
SSFIV and Ultimate are way too much for a little DLC update, unless you want to take out the majority of their new features. People have to consider things like new moves and significant changes to moves completely breaking trial modes and whatnot. Ultimate has a ton of new content. All of it is deserving of new arcade mode endings, new trials, new modes, a complete overhaul to the online functionality. You don't get any of that with a DLC update. The only logical method of serving it up digitally would be to make it a part of Games-on-Demand, because it's not MvC3 anymore. It's Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3.
And someone said the community shrinks every time they release a new disc: lol. These updates are not for the casuals. The "community" shrinks two months after a fighting game comes out, when all the casuals get bored of it and trade it in at a GameStop. They were never going to pay for DLC a year down the road. They were never going to buy an update to the game. The competitive community are the people who stick around, and really, Capcom has been catering to them in the past with these disc updates. Sorry for the online warriors out there who don't play in person ever, but even you guys should be able to see why disc-based release updates are best. They don't even charge you full price, and the amount of new content you get is much, much cheaper than if you had to buy it all piecemeal. Not to mention you guys get overhauls to the entire netcode. Complete overhauls are NOT possible through patches... Never heard of that before. Improvements to existing netcode? Sure. Entirely new system because the original is inherently flawed? (hello MvC3) Nah.
I'm interested in how people ideally think fighting games should be updated. All through patches, no DLC? Piecemeal DLC where you have to buy every individual piece of everything but "you only have to buy what you want?" The SSFIV: AE strategy where it's a full update to the game but you can download it as DLC?
My ideal method: the same shit they've been doing. It's the best thing they can do for the competitive community that runs and attends tournaments. Super Street Fighter IV is the best update they've released this console generation. All you needed was the disc. It didn't matter whose Xbox or PS3 you put the game into, it had all the characters, all the balance changes, and was ready to go, so long as you had the game and a console.
Arcade Edition's strategy is second best, to me. It sucks because the majority of the community are cheap asses and got the DLC, so we have to get specific consoles from people with their information already recovered/available on the console, but there ARE people who got the disc version so it's easy to run at tournaments.
Marvel 3 is doing it mostly good, except for the DLC characters. Ultimate will have all the changes and characters available to everyone who plays Marvel 3, except Shuma and Jill again. Similar situation. Need hard drives and profiles that have DLC. A tad annoying but you can get away without having the DLC on a lot of setups since nobody plays those characters.
Worst strategies to me are piecemeal DLC, constant hotfixes, and even big patches every few months or so. Piecemeal DLC sucks because it costs a shitload of money if you want to have all the content on one setup for a tournament. It doesn't matter if you only want 1 out of 5 new characters, tournament setups need all of them. Plus it does everyone good to be able to try all the new characters and see if they might actually want to play as them, or so that they can learn about the characters and fight against/with them locally.
Anyhow, Blazblue, $8 a character? Yuck. $24 to get all the characters in CS1/CS2. Thank god Marvel 3 didn't make the 12 new characters available as DLC. All 14 DLC characters would've come to $70. Seventy. Dollars.
Hotfixes suck because there's no room to let the metagame grow. The metagame changes in MK9 like every month. PerfectLegend quit the game because his character was trashed overnight. They deal out nerfs like candy on halloween in that game. Stuff is changing all the time and it leaves no room for advanced metagame development. Vanilla MvC3 grew into it's own beast. While nerfs to god tier characters like Wolverine and Phoenix would've been nice, the game actually did grow, a LOT. Watch Season's Beatings Velocity if you have any doubt in this. None of it would've happened with a bunch of nerfs happening and glitches being removed and whatnot. DLC glitch IS vanilla MvC3. It's a part of the metagame, just like all the glitches and shit in MvC2.
Another thing people fail to realize is that Super Street Fighter IV is not Street Fighter IV with more characters. Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is not Marvel vs. Capcom 3 with more characters. Hell, AE isn't even the same game. These are NEW GAMES. With that, they can make major changes to gameplay systems (air X-Factor, X-Factor strength changes, Ultra 2's, new moves for characters, significant changes to existing moves, etc etc), whereas with little hotfixes and patches you cannot.
Arcade Edition got away with being DLC because they only added 4 new characters and made balance changes. No new anything else. And that is all you can play in Arcade Edition. No new trials or anything like that.
SSFIV and Ultimate are way too much for a little DLC update, unless you want to take out the majority of their new features. People have to consider things like new moves and significant changes to moves completely breaking trial modes and whatnot. Ultimate has a ton of new content. All of it is deserving of new arcade mode endings, new trials, new modes, a complete overhaul to the online functionality. You don't get any of that with a DLC update. The only logical method of serving it up digitally would be to make it a part of Games-on-Demand, because it's not MvC3 anymore. It's Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3.
And someone said the community shrinks every time they release a new disc: lol. These updates are not for the casuals. The "community" shrinks two months after a fighting game comes out, when all the casuals get bored of it and trade it in at a GameStop. They were never going to pay for DLC a year down the road. They were never going to buy an update to the game. The competitive community are the people who stick around, and really, Capcom has been catering to them in the past with these disc updates. Sorry for the online warriors out there who don't play in person ever, but even you guys should be able to see why disc-based release updates are best. They don't even charge you full price, and the amount of new content you get is much, much cheaper than if you had to buy it all piecemeal. Not to mention you guys get overhauls to the entire netcode. Complete overhauls are NOT possible through patches... Never heard of that before. Improvements to existing netcode? Sure. Entirely new system because the original is inherently flawed? (hello MvC3) Nah.
Buzzati said:
DoA and SC sell well enough to not need SF for sales period. Both games released before SFIV, and sold really well this gen.
Buying SF isn't going to help alternative fighters. Buying alternative fighters is going to help alternative fighters. Did SF4 help get some other games out in the US? Yes it did. That doesn't mean that the game is actually good. Capcom's been really bad this year.
Without someone other then Capcom making a successful game with long-term appeal, the genre's going to crash again shortly. KOF has a good shot of being that game, as does TTT2 and SCV.
BTW the reason MK had so many hotfixes was because the game needed to fix broken crap. Without the hotfixes, Evo MK9 would have been a complete joke. As for the metagame, you can now have a better metagame develop because the broken crap is out.
Also, yeah I'll hit tournies (though I haven't this year due to low quality games), but I care about playing 7 days a week, then just on Saturday. I'll trade hassles for the tournament scene in return for having a game that isn't broke. It's not that big of a hassle anyways.
More companies need to take MK9's model. Hopefully Daishi wasn't full of crap when he said SCV was going to use that model.
sixteen-bit
Member
Chavelo said:
"Hardcore fans" are more likely to know the history of the genre; How in the past 4 years, the sales have just started to suggest that making big budget fighting games is feasible again.
Chavelo said:
It's a lot of people. True that there isn't a big organization that is collectively organized and big enough to exert buying power - but you won't find a group that successfully created a collective that has boycotted any videogame.
Google it. While this might just be the picture of "a few voicing their dissatisfaction" - there is misinformation held within these online groups (that actually do have quite a few members) descriptions and petition oultines, aimed to get other people riled up about Capcom games.
Why did you quote "unworthy of being in the genre?"
Chavelo said:
Evo without a Capcom game would be almost barren.
Buzzati said:
I'm sorry, but as a hardcore fan of the genre, I have plenty to play.
Soul Calibur 5
Virtua Fighter
Dead or Alive
Skull Girls
King of Fighters 13
Tekken Tag 2
Persona 4
BlazBlue
I've had plenty to play in the 10 year hiatus capcom took from realizing people still wanted these games. There's been no lack of fighters, only a lack of those made by Capcom.
CPS2 said:
To be fair, SSF4 was very well-balanced. It's just AE that turned it all to crap.
Also MVC3 has average balance for a fighter.
Capcom's overall rep for fighting game balance is historically terrible though.
Slamtastic said:
Noticing something: kinda OT. Why is it the bronies seem to love the alternative fighters more? It's awesome, but I'm noticing it across more places then just here. I think it's awesome though. You guys got my respect.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
I think Bazblue's DLC policies are worse than Capcoms and fans seem to have forgotten how SNK had no problem releasing a completely unfinished game like KoF XII, you'd think people would be a lot more reluctant to those two. Or rather, if Capcom had done what they did, the backlash would have been much bigger.
I think what Capcom has been doing is mostly fair. SSF IV had 10 new characters, that was good value, UMvC3 seems like really good value as well with 12 new characters ... and at least Arcade Edition was downloadable, although I do think that has damaged their brand a fair bit with the hardcore.
I think what Capcom has been doing is mostly fair. SSF IV had 10 new characters, that was good value, UMvC3 seems like really good value as well with 12 new characters ... and at least Arcade Edition was downloadable, although I do think that has damaged their brand a fair bit with the hardcore.
Slamtastic
Member
Whenever a Fighting is Magic video gets posted, people in the comments comparisons to other fighters always come to BB, maybe you have a point there.alstein said:
or sometimes smash 
sixteen-bit
Member
Probably has something to do with a MLP fighting game coming down the pipeline.alstein said:
sixteen-bit
Member
Free arcade update, but only pay for the characters you want?Raging Spaniard said:
I'd prefer if Capcom did that. I'd only buy Adon and get all the SSFIV balance changes free!
Slamtastic
Member
Or waiting a year so you could choose 1 character, you know, the character you actually want to use.CPS2 said:
Managing to find the minimum amount of characters required, that I actually want to play can be tough, depending on the game. (And of course, sometimes it's hard to narrow it down to only 5 or more, and you end up with jack of all trades master of none)
Skilletor said:
I'm not saying you've had nothing to play. I'm saying that companies have neglected the fighting genre because it wasn't selling enough, especially 2-D based fighting games. Games were being developed with a low bar, the genre was seeing 10-year long recycling of art assets. You can't deny that the new art of King of Fighters games, the actual development of Skullgirls, and the rapid release of new Sammy Fighters since 2004 (Check Wikipedia) wasn't somehow impacted by Capcom's expansion of the genre with new Street Fighter games. The community has grown immensely since the release of Street Fighter 4, and is heavily supported by a healthy tournament presence - and that isn't a coincidence.
Criminal Upper
Banned
I like playing fighting games that interest me. Doesn't matter who makes them.
I just want a new Killer Instinct
I just want a new Killer Instinct
WrenchNinja
Member
Suuuure Capcom, sure.
That $67 from MvC3 still burns.
That $67 from MvC3 still burns.
Buzzati said:
That's a lot of companies not neglecting the genre.
Also, I'd put VF5's and SC4's production values over anything Capcom has produced since 3S.
KOF has enough international success that Capcom didn't impact KOF's development. It's the soccer of fighting games, it's only Americans that didn't care- and Capcom's 2011 fail has been so bad that Americans are now looking at KOF. Same with VF.
The people SF4 brought in, most of them are SF fans, not fighting game fans.