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"Subtly beautiful"
- Thread starter Rlan
- Start date
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
well, there are infinite numbers below 3. take your pick my friend
-3 is 3 in hd
-3 is 3 in hd
tehrik-e-insaaf
Member
Wow, guess people don't even know what these words mean....
School system am fail....
Let's define for the people here who are quoting stuff without any idea:
1. Subtle :
a)So slight as to be difficult to detect or describe; elusive: a subtle smile.
b)Difficult to understand; abstruse: an argument whose subtle point was lost on her opponent.
c)Characterized by skill or ingenuity; clever.
d)Crafty or sly; devious.
e)Operating in a hidden, usually injurious way; insidious: a subtle poison.
2. Beauty :
a)The quality that gives pleasure to the mind or senses and is associated with such properties as harmony of form or color, excellence of artistry, truthfulness, and originality.
b)One that is beautiful, especially a beautiful woman.
c)A quality or feature that is most effective, gratifying, or telling: The beauty of the venture is that we stand to lose nothing.
d)An outstanding or conspicuous example: "Hammett's gun went off. The shot was a beauty, just slightly behind the eyes" (Lillian Hellman).
Now for Halo 3 having "subtle beauty in its graphics" - this could imply any of the following things, but all linked back to increasing sensations of the visual cortex:
1) The clever or ingenious use of graphical power to please the visual cortex, when one would not expect it. Saying the "scale" of the world is "subtle beauty" is incorrect, since one expects this with Halo 3.
2) Hidden or unapparent use of technology to create effects that please the visual cortex. Halo 3 can fit this category, as the use of different lights, bumps, anti-aliasing tricks, and overall mix of art and colors can create a world that is quiet pleasing as one walks around, but is not necessarily apparent when looking at screen shots
The second could definitely be true, though I also highly doubt it - seems to me like people are trying to come up with a story to justify Bungie re using their old engine. But that's just my opinion, and it's not like graphics are the reason why Halo is played in the first place, nor am I sure if they had spent time on the graphics, how much they could have really improved given the obvious limitations of the hardware in creating a huge world.
Now for people saying some of the following games having "subtle beauty" in the same notion as Halo 3 - you are missing the point. The point is that Halo 3 is substituting "actual" beauty for "subtle beauty" - none of the games people are mentioning are actually doing that since they are ACTUALLY beautiful, but have subtle touches to them that make them even better:
1) Wind Waker: Some parts of it are beautiful in a subtle way, for example the little explosions, the bright pastels that make the graphics very clean whereas people are used to rougher outlines. However the game overall IS beautiful, so saying it has "subtle beauty" is pointless since its a very beautiful game in the first place.
2) Metroid Prime: Once again, some parts of it are beautiful in a subtle way, like the heat effects, the polygonal doors, the gun effects, etc. However once again, the art is very beautiful, it is pointless to say it is beautiful in a subtle way, because the game is already beautiful.
3) Ico: Once again, there is some subtle beauty in some of the scenes and environments however the game is gorgeous, the art is very well done, and the transitions between areas are managed very well and just right. You can't say it substitutes subtle beauty for real beauty when that is clearly not the case.
4) SOTC: Same as ICO. The game is already gorgeous because of the art, you can see it from the beginning. when you walk in. This doesn't fit the example of Halo 3
All these games might fit the "Great Art that Hides Technical Flaws or Limitations" category, but definitely not the Halo 3 "Subtle Beauty"
Here are my choices for three games that might meet the Halo 3 defintion of "subtle beauty"
1) Star Wars Battlefront II: Technically the graphics, the player models, etc. are not very high-quality, but the overall crispness of the environments, the modeling on the key areas of the levels and the modeling of the vehicles and spaceships along with the damage modeling on the enemies makes this game have "subtle beauty" in my eyes similar to Halo 3 (and it isn't just a coincidence that they are both the same kind of game with large-scale wars).
2) BurnOut : Technically and artistically once again, you aren't breaking any records here or impressing people with your use of colors or themes. The game is a very typical racer with typically modeled environments and typically modelled cars. However, the "subtle beauty" part kicks in when you start racing in those environments, the motion blur, the elaborate detailing of the replays, the environmental physics that display a visual feast as events unfold on the track. The pyrotechnics really elevate the graphical experience and make it much more interesting than the basic time spent on the core graphics and models.
3) Fifa 2006 RTTWC: Technically and artistically, you expect a lot more. The field is very typical, the players look small and don't react all that realistically for the most part. It seems like a typical routine of running and stealing the ball and kicking it. The "subtle beauty" kicks in when the animations and ball movement occurs. The physics and the resulting impact on the graphics in terms of how quickly action changes and how smoothly the goal is kicked add beauty to the visuals, so that even when you aren't fully zoomed in, the game looks very nice.
Just my 2.. I mean 3 cents.
School system am fail....
Let's define for the people here who are quoting stuff without any idea:
1. Subtle :
a)So slight as to be difficult to detect or describe; elusive: a subtle smile.
b)Difficult to understand; abstruse: an argument whose subtle point was lost on her opponent.
c)Characterized by skill or ingenuity; clever.
d)Crafty or sly; devious.
e)Operating in a hidden, usually injurious way; insidious: a subtle poison.
2. Beauty :
a)The quality that gives pleasure to the mind or senses and is associated with such properties as harmony of form or color, excellence of artistry, truthfulness, and originality.
b)One that is beautiful, especially a beautiful woman.
c)A quality or feature that is most effective, gratifying, or telling: The beauty of the venture is that we stand to lose nothing.
d)An outstanding or conspicuous example: "Hammett's gun went off. The shot was a beauty, just slightly behind the eyes" (Lillian Hellman).
Now for Halo 3 having "subtle beauty in its graphics" - this could imply any of the following things, but all linked back to increasing sensations of the visual cortex:
1) The clever or ingenious use of graphical power to please the visual cortex, when one would not expect it. Saying the "scale" of the world is "subtle beauty" is incorrect, since one expects this with Halo 3.
2) Hidden or unapparent use of technology to create effects that please the visual cortex. Halo 3 can fit this category, as the use of different lights, bumps, anti-aliasing tricks, and overall mix of art and colors can create a world that is quiet pleasing as one walks around, but is not necessarily apparent when looking at screen shots
The second could definitely be true, though I also highly doubt it - seems to me like people are trying to come up with a story to justify Bungie re using their old engine. But that's just my opinion, and it's not like graphics are the reason why Halo is played in the first place, nor am I sure if they had spent time on the graphics, how much they could have really improved given the obvious limitations of the hardware in creating a huge world.
Now for people saying some of the following games having "subtle beauty" in the same notion as Halo 3 - you are missing the point. The point is that Halo 3 is substituting "actual" beauty for "subtle beauty" - none of the games people are mentioning are actually doing that since they are ACTUALLY beautiful, but have subtle touches to them that make them even better:
1) Wind Waker: Some parts of it are beautiful in a subtle way, for example the little explosions, the bright pastels that make the graphics very clean whereas people are used to rougher outlines. However the game overall IS beautiful, so saying it has "subtle beauty" is pointless since its a very beautiful game in the first place.
2) Metroid Prime: Once again, some parts of it are beautiful in a subtle way, like the heat effects, the polygonal doors, the gun effects, etc. However once again, the art is very beautiful, it is pointless to say it is beautiful in a subtle way, because the game is already beautiful.
3) Ico: Once again, there is some subtle beauty in some of the scenes and environments however the game is gorgeous, the art is very well done, and the transitions between areas are managed very well and just right. You can't say it substitutes subtle beauty for real beauty when that is clearly not the case.
4) SOTC: Same as ICO. The game is already gorgeous because of the art, you can see it from the beginning. when you walk in. This doesn't fit the example of Halo 3
All these games might fit the "Great Art that Hides Technical Flaws or Limitations" category, but definitely not the Halo 3 "Subtle Beauty"
Here are my choices for three games that might meet the Halo 3 defintion of "subtle beauty"
1) Star Wars Battlefront II: Technically the graphics, the player models, etc. are not very high-quality, but the overall crispness of the environments, the modeling on the key areas of the levels and the modeling of the vehicles and spaceships along with the damage modeling on the enemies makes this game have "subtle beauty" in my eyes similar to Halo 3 (and it isn't just a coincidence that they are both the same kind of game with large-scale wars).
2) BurnOut : Technically and artistically once again, you aren't breaking any records here or impressing people with your use of colors or themes. The game is a very typical racer with typically modeled environments and typically modelled cars. However, the "subtle beauty" part kicks in when you start racing in those environments, the motion blur, the elaborate detailing of the replays, the environmental physics that display a visual feast as events unfold on the track. The pyrotechnics really elevate the graphical experience and make it much more interesting than the basic time spent on the core graphics and models.
3) Fifa 2006 RTTWC: Technically and artistically, you expect a lot more. The field is very typical, the players look small and don't react all that realistically for the most part. It seems like a typical routine of running and stealing the ball and kicking it. The "subtle beauty" kicks in when the animations and ball movement occurs. The physics and the resulting impact on the graphics in terms of how quickly action changes and how smoothly the goal is kicked add beauty to the visuals, so that even when you aren't fully zoomed in, the game looks very nice.
Just my 2.. I mean 3 cents.
How is something subtly beautiful? It is either beautiful or not in your opinion.
Okami and SotC? Those games are beautiful, there is nothing subtle about them. In fact, both of them slap you in the face with their art direction.
The only thing I could call subtly beautiful is visuals that take a minimalistic approach. So that means clean lines, minimal use of the color palette, etc. In this case, pong may be the correct answer. There is nothing in that game that is extraneous to the gameplay, and nothing to distract the viewer from its purpose. In that sense, it is minimalistically (subtly?) beautiful.
Okami and SotC? Those games are beautiful, there is nothing subtle about them. In fact, both of them slap you in the face with their art direction.
The only thing I could call subtly beautiful is visuals that take a minimalistic approach. So that means clean lines, minimal use of the color palette, etc. In this case, pong may be the correct answer. There is nothing in that game that is extraneous to the gameplay, and nothing to distract the viewer from its purpose. In that sense, it is minimalistically (subtly?) beautiful.
Half-Life 2 and the Metal Gear Solid games are probably the best examples of subtle beauty in gaming. It shows a lot of confidence in the art direction when you don't have to rely on overwhelming visual effects. I'd also put Beyond Good & Evil and Prince of Persia: Sands of Time in that category.
EDIT: Hmm, reading the comments about subtlety bring up a good point. I guess you could say that they're more "geniunely beautiful" than games that are effects and shader heavy (like Oblivion or Fable).
EDIT: Hmm, reading the comments about subtlety bring up a good point. I guess you could say that they're more "geniunely beautiful" than games that are effects and shader heavy (like Oblivion or Fable).
Kabuki Waq
Member
from what i can tell...when it comes to Halo 3 it means neat little touches built into a fairly average Graphical package.
bigmakstudios
Banned
I guess... uh... Metroid Prime 3. It had a few areas that were really pretty (I specifically liked the rooms in Skytown with all the little flying/rolling robots).
krypt0nian
Banned
I have no idea what the premise of this thread is. Someone thought a phrase meant something and then we talk about it.
I think I know what it means, like when you found out Scarface had a pretty good looking archipelago or playing Galaxy Wars, but it does sound like PR in that Halo review, especially because the game looks great at first sight....and when you consider the history of the site reviewing it.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
I'd add Rez, not for graphics, but for it's mechanic, the way it all effects the user experience. It eludes many people as to why it's so great. DOES THAT COUNT?
VictimOfGrief
Banned
Ahem.DeaconKnowledge said:
Tom Clancy's Metroid Prime. :lol
Logan Cano
Banned
Why is it that when hyped games look unequivocally mediocre and hardly look better than their prequel, as in the case of Halo 3, people resort to calling it "subtle beauty"??
Jesus, Halo 3, to the people that see it, may be something more than yet ANOTHER FPS but come on, let´s stop trying to justify its faults, ok?
BTW, I disagree, it´s just like any other FPS out there, with a shitty generic main character to boot, but whatever.
Jesus, Halo 3, to the people that see it, may be something more than yet ANOTHER FPS but come on, let´s stop trying to justify its faults, ok?
BTW, I disagree, it´s just like any other FPS out there, with a shitty generic main character to boot, but whatever.
Logan Cano
Banned
Threi said:
Well, the double standards out there are shit. When a "cool" game gets a sequel and is a rehash of old concepts and offers absolutely nothing new, like Halo, then the press say it´s a "refinement" or a "well crafted new entry" or whatever.
Of course, when a game that isn´t as cool offers absolutely the same, it´s trashed for things other games don´t. I don´t get it.
Warcraft games. Simple design, always low poly, and the art direction is always between cartoony and real, and just gives a nice feel overall. (even though many are pretty tired of it)
Blizzard games are just... beautiful as it is. You could say SC was 'subtly' beautiful, in that it had a lot of character to it, yet used a very dull palate of colors and nothing eye-popping. (SC2 on the other hand is very eye-popping)
Blizzard games are just... beautiful as it is. You could say SC was 'subtly' beautiful, in that it had a lot of character to it, yet used a very dull palate of colors and nothing eye-popping. (SC2 on the other hand is very eye-popping)
Halo 3 could have had everything set super bumpy, shiny, everything monotone, cranked up bloom, depth of field, mega-motion blur, etc. The engine supports all of these things. Heck when it comes to tech Halo has HDR, Atmospheric scattering, fully dynamic water, motion blur, advanced shaders, etc. Other games that are hailed as 'next-gen' don't have that feature set.
A more subtle approach was taken to using all of those things, and often are used minimally enough (like the motion blur) that you don't really notice them.. it just feels good... and everything takes a back seat to fun/gameplay. Just because something can be set to 10 doesn't mean it should be set to 10. For example If you crank up the bloom then you can't see people shooting you from outside when you are indoors, which proved to be no fun. Or if you make rocks super bumpy and shiny then they look plastic and wet.. and that doesn't look right at all.
I guess that is how Shoe meant.
A more subtle approach was taken to using all of those things, and often are used minimally enough (like the motion blur) that you don't really notice them.. it just feels good... and everything takes a back seat to fun/gameplay. Just because something can be set to 10 doesn't mean it should be set to 10. For example If you crank up the bloom then you can't see people shooting you from outside when you are indoors, which proved to be no fun. Or if you make rocks super bumpy and shiny then they look plastic and wet.. and that doesn't look right at all.
I guess that is how Shoe meant.
Logan Cano said:
I think Resistance was a victim of this. The game was near perfect in terms of a console FPS, both single player and mp. (ending was anti-climatic, thats my only con) And yet it got docked over and over how it doesn't bring anything 'new' to the table. Imo 40players online on a console with an awesome matchmaking system and ranks was much more 'new' than some simple combat element that other devs try to toss in.
I'm with this guy^speedpop said:
I avoided the Gamecube cuz I was young and stupid. I was pissed at Nintendo for what they did to Zelda. I was like "This shit is the last straw" When I finally gave it a chance and bought a gamecube used 2 years ago I was nearly floored by the goreous explosions, fire and smoke. It was a pretty game... Now I am totally bored by the "mature" style of TP.
Paper Mario games are really pretty to me...
Metroid Prime is obvious.
I don't know if Crimson Skies counts as subtle, but I'm still impressed by this games visuals all this time later, but I wasn't at first...
Oh, and Hotel Dusk for the Ds was enchanting...
RE4 is pretty, but not "over the top"...
Night_Trekker
Member
Fable is pretty damn beautiful. Bloom and all.
Staccat0 said:
I kinda feel that way about square games. When i was younger I used to think that FFVII and FFVIII was the shit (i admit i didn't play FF games beforehand - i became a RPG fan during the PS1 era), while FFIX was "kiddie trash". Replaying it now i realize how superior FFIX was stylistically compared to FFVII and FFVIII, even though i still feel the gameplay is worse. Now the "Mature, with 20% more belts" style sickens me. I guess it is like looking back and saying "i can't believe i thought that was cool"
elostyle said:
What game ya talkin' bout? I sorta got that impression with halo 3. It was something about the animations.
As for the subtly beautiful thing...I guess I can see what they are talking about. The graphics don't impress me at all, but there are neat art moments like with the ark and pretty much anytime ships are around.
I can't think of any other time i'd say something is subtly beautiful tho. I don't really see a reason to say something is beautiful but not really mean it lol. It's like ohhh..that girl is hot if she stands at a 45 degree angle.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Forget "subtle beauty."
I want beauty that's as subtle as a coked-up New Jersey gangster with a pistol-whipping fetish.
I want less "subtle beauty" and more Ratchet and Clank Future:
I want beauty that's as subtle as a coked-up New Jersey gangster with a pistol-whipping fetish.
I want less "subtle beauty" and more Ratchet and Clank Future:
CamHostage
Member
WastingPenguins said:
Exactly what is it that's subtle about Metroid Prime? Half the textures in the game glow at you.
theBishop said:
True, however, it does display the really really poor color pallete that Insomniac chose for this game. Had they used a wider variety of colors for this game (which I understand may have changed the tone) it would have been better visually, IMO. More green's and some more red's / grey's really could have done wonders for this game.
Great Rumbler
Member
I'm gonna go with Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl. It did an amazing job of capturing the decaying ruins of an 80's Soviet Union landscape torn about by radiation contamination of years of scavenging without going overboard on texture layers and shiny bumpmapping. It's got a gritty realism that you just don't see too often.
Imperial Hot
Banned
Die. In. A. Fire.jett said:
yeah, halo 3 looks like halo 2 with bump mapping and better lighting. and yes, i've seen it on an HD. theres nothing more subtly beautiful about halo 3 than there was in either of the other halos. however, i'm still playing it and still enjoying it in someone else's dorm, so i've no real complaints.
for subtly beautiful games, i would have to say MP3 is, and i know i'm not alone in it. the artstyle is simply amazing.
for subtly beautiful games, i would have to say MP3 is, and i know i'm not alone in it. the artstyle is simply amazing.
underfooter
Banned
I'm currently pretty far in Halo 3 and I'm enjoying it a lot.
I'm not impressed with Halo 3's graphics really, but the game is fantastic. The amount of enemies on screen, the non-existent loading, the explosions, the AI, and the framerate make it a BEAUTIFUL project, it just doesn't have graphics that go above and beyond.
As bad as this may sound, I think Metroid Prime 3 looks better. I was constantly in awe with that games art direction and subtle effects. Halo 3 still rules though, on different merits.
I'm not impressed with Halo 3's graphics really, but the game is fantastic. The amount of enemies on screen, the non-existent loading, the explosions, the AI, and the framerate make it a BEAUTIFUL project, it just doesn't have graphics that go above and beyond.
As bad as this may sound, I think Metroid Prime 3 looks better. I was constantly in awe with that games art direction and subtle effects. Halo 3 still rules though, on different merits.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
really wish my cpu could run stalker. when shawn on gfw was talking about going out to the place where the ferris wheel was still up, and just wandering around finding little secret hidden nooks, i was gushing, dying to play it.
but my pc is shit, so i'm fucked. oh well. game looks/sounds great though
but my pc is shit, so i'm fucked. oh well. game looks/sounds great though
Great Rumbler
Member
beelzebozo said:really wish my cpu could run stalker. when shawn on gfw was talking about going out to the place where the ferris wheel was still up, and just wandering around finding little secret hidden nooks, i was gushing, dying to play it.
but my pc is shit, so i'm fucked. oh well. game looks/sounds great though
If you have a super high-end PC where you can turn on all the effects, it looks amazing. Especially the dynamic lighting.
Pristine_Condition said:
Ha. I was scrolling up from the bottom of this thread, wondering 'what is that game?' (in fact, I was wondering what game this 'artwork' was from) .. missed those shots, need to catch up on R&C
edit - wait, is that artwork? :| i looked at the r&c thread, and saw some of the other new shots, and now I don't know.