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[y2dvd]

I didn't bother to read the entire thread but I'm going through a scary situation right now and have a friend trying to commit suicide. It started with text. I couldn't tell if he was joking or not, saying he was going to slit his wrist. I told him that was not funny and to tell me he was not joking around. He said he wasn't. I tried to call him, but he responded with not wanting to talk. I texted him, pleading him to talk to me. Minutes went by. My heart is racing here. I don't know whether to dial 911 or what.

He finally calls me just now and we just talked about everything he's going through. I offered to let him stay with me until he can get his head straight. He's away from what's causing his depression the most (his house) so it sounded like he was getting better. What infuriated me was that he did say he attempted to slit his wrist, but the blades in his house were too blunt. I told him not to do anything irrational like that again.

He has a clearer head again and is thinking over my offer to let him stay at my place. He knows his action is irrational but I hope he has the will to resist that urge again. I feel helpless over here. I'm doing what I can over the phone but now I can't help but feel that suicide really is selfish. He was not seeing that there are others that cares for and relies on him. I think that with time, things get better. One bad, irrational action can take that possibility away. I can only sit and wait for him to respond to my offer and I feel so helpless at the moment. What should I do?

*Edit*
I actually meant to post this yesterday afternoon but it didn't look like I hit the Submit Reply button. Update: he described he got scabs on his wrist from the attempt. He promises not to do it again. He was actually supposed to meet up a friend later than night and that was planned before the suicidal attempt. They still met up and that friend offered to let him crash there since he was much closer. I'm not sure what's going to happen now. He's going to have lunch with his mom tomorrow and go from there. Blah at this whole situation. :\

 

[$200]

I didn't bother to read the entire thread but I'm going through a scary situation right now and have a friend trying to commit suicide. It started with text. I couldn't tell if he was joking or not, saying he was going to slit his wrist. I told him that was not funny and to tell me he was not joking around. He said he wasn't. I tried to call him, but he responded with not wanting to talk. I texted him, pleading him to talk to me. Minutes went by. My heart is racing here. I don't know whether to dial 911 or what.

He finally calls me just now and we just talked about everything he's going through. I offered to let him stay with me until he can get his head straight. He's away from what's causing his depression the most (his house) so it sounded like he was getting better. What infuriated me was that he did say he attempted to slit his wrist, but the blades in his house were too blunt. I told him not to do anything irrational like that again.

He has a clearer head again and is thinking over my offer to let him stay at my place. He knows his action is irrational but I hope he has the will to resist that urge again. I feel helpless over here. I'm doing what I can over the phone but now I can't help but feel that suicide really is selfish. He was not seeing that there are others that cares for and relies on him. I think that with time, things get better. One bad, irrational action can take that possibility away. I can only sit and wait for him to respond to my offer and I feel so helpless at the moment. What should I do?

*Edit*
I actually meant to post this yesterday afternoon but it didn't look like I hit the Submit Reply button. Update: he described he got scabs on his wrist from the attempt. He promises not to do it again. He was actually supposed to meet up a friend later than night and that was planned before the suicidal attempt. They still met up and that friend offered to let him crash there since he was much closer. I'm not sure what's going to happen now. He's going to have lunch with his mom tomorrow and go from there. Blah at this whole situation. :\

Talk to him and/or his mom to see you/she can take him to see a doctor?

 

[daninthemix]

I would be interested in hearing Christian views on suicide. I know Catholics aren't big fans.

 

[wildfire]

As someone with major depression, it gets old

Your argument comes off as stupid because it hasn't been settled that mental problems like depression are a physical problem.

So is it?

 

[Chaplain]

I would be interested in hearing Christian views on suicide. I know Catholics aren't big fans.

Christian here. As someone who has experienced Suicide (my dad killed himself when I was young), I know first hand about the damage and pain caused by a person who decides to end their life. God values life as sacred, and from a Biblical perspective taking your own life would be classified as murder (murder of self). Suicide also hurts those that are left behind, giving them pain that they are forced to take for the rest of their lives. So, suicide is selfish because of all of the evil it causes to the individual and to those that love them.

Does suicide send a person to hell? Oxford Philosopher Ravi Zacharias discusses this deep question in the link I provided. He tried to kill himself when he was younger, and discusses that in the video as well.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Your argument comes off as stupid because it hasn't been settled that mental problems like depression are a physical problem.

So is it?

Are you being serious?

 

[Ziltoid]

Your argument comes off as stupid because it hasn't been settled that mental problems like depression are a physical problem.

What does it matter if its a physical problem or not? It's an illness, and should be treated as any other illness.

 

[dbztrk]

It brings on many changes.

And I can take or leave it.

 

[YoungFa]

What does it matter if its a physical problem or not? It's an illness, and should be treated as any other illness.

Not all illnesses are treated equally already, so whats the point.

 

[daninthemix]

Christian here. As someone who has experienced Suicide (my dad killed himself when I was young), I know first hand about the damage and pain caused by a person who decides to end their life. God values life as sacred, and from a Biblical perspective taking your own life would be classified as murder (murder of self). Suicide also hurts those that are left behind, giving them pain that they are forced to take for the rest of their lives. So, suicide is selfish because of all of the evil it causes to the individual and to those that love them.

Does suicide send a person to hell? Oxford Philosopher Ravi Zacharias discusses this deep question in the link I provided. He tried to kill himself when he was younger, and discusses that in the video as well.

I don't believe for a second you condemn yourself to hell by taking your own life - otherwise that would be the one sin that Christ didn't die for. However, I would imagine most Christians consider it a wasted opportunity at best and a very poor witness at worst. Poor old Rick Warren's son shot himself dead last month.

 

[Fantasmo]

I'm glad you're out of it. However, what works for you doesn't work for everyone, and talking down to others about how they have not succeeded like you (which is how a depressed person may perceive your words) is not a persuasive strategy.

One thing I learned from a very brief stint with AA, is that the only thing we have is "I". When a person is conveying things with "I", and they've reached a level of success, you listen, because there is a lot of wisdom is there. I didn't stay because it wasn't for me (and nobody judged me), but that stuck with me.

Of course it doesn't all apply, its not fucking supposed to totally apply! But you listen anyway, and apply the pieces of those stories that apply to you, and dump what doesn't. I am human, which means I am unique to my experiences, but I am still human. Which by extension means I can't be 100% unique now can I? Which means maybe something of what I say can be applied and it can help someone. I never claimed to be a doctor of suicide. That's the problem all of the loudest complainers. They act like they're aliens from Mars or something and nothing applies to them because they're such a special case. But if they'd just start listening to the people who got out maybe they'd get better and possibly really quickly. I should know. I acted that way too. Funny part is I'd say I have more real life personal experience than someone like Dr. Phil or Dr. Drew, which enjoy a media circus which sets people back, but that's an aside.

I also don't claim to be a master communicator. Hell, I was suicidal for years and years, part of that is probably a communication breakdown somewhere, since things did get that bad instead of getting better. And everyone's got their own comfort zone.

For example, I can tell you (and others) don't like me, because you get on my case in every topic we both post in. Why you don't just block me, I honestly don't know. You (and others, like Devolution, universal really? Sorry, no, find another target) are the first to jump down my throat every time. I don't get it but whatever floats your boat. (Its also charming how you and your buddies like to put me down, and if I was still suicidal, I might take it to heart and act on it.) So by extension of all that, I don't expect to reach everyone, or anyone for that matter, but maybe I will. I'm not asking for anything either. Not money, not recognition, not even a pat on the back, not even a PM. If you want to ignore what I say go right ahead, that's your choice. If it doesn't apply so be it. But guess what, I typed it anyway, because maybe there's a lurker that learned something that does apply to them. And that's good enough for me.

Depression and suicide seem to be a recurring topic here and, being on the other side (not perfectly I'll readily admit, I am a work in progress still), I talk about it. And maybe I come across heavy handed, but being that suicide is a permanent solution to what usually is a fixable problem, it gets me a little choked up and worried about the person behind the post.

I don't get off on being a hero, but I do have perspective to offer and so I did because it was a shitty place to be and I'm no longer there. If you don't like any of what I have to say, I actually couldn't care less, because someone else might get something really good out of it.

You are a great adult.

Thank you, I know.

And for the record, I suffered from clinical diagnosed depression, for over 13 years, and that's just the diagnosed part by 4 doctors, Mr Cool Guy. 4 suicide attempts and 2 ambulances called on me. And at least I've attemped something and made strides unlike certain people, who like to whine and make exceptions and excuses constantly... or just accepting what one doctor or study tells you, or throwing pills at the problem. Pills may help some, and for them I'm happy. For others like me, they made it exponentially worse. Those are the people I'm talking to.

And anyway, despite what some may believe, there are entire industries loving that some accept to stay ill and just tread water.

Minimize suicide my ass. It took changing my whole life around to get better. But it was one moment that decided that, and I won't change my story for you or anyone else.

And my life and opinions are anything but universal, so fuck off with that nonsense. Its getting real old, in this thread and every other.

 

[wildfire]

Are you being serious?

Yes.

You aren't going to convince people that view mental problems is something you can "get over" through sheer willpower if you can't prove that there is a physical defect that makes this difficult.


If you can't do that don't make comparisons of mental illness with physical impairments like blindness or cancer like the person I responded to did.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Yes.

You aren't going to convince people that view mental problems is something you can "get over" through sheer willpower if you can't prove that there is a physical defect that makes this difficult.


If you can't do that don't make comparisons of mental illness with physical impairments like blindness or cancer like the person I responded to did.

Brains are a physical thing that cause our thoughts, feelings, and everything. Bad brains cause bad things. "Chemical imbalance" obviously refers to physical problems. Psychiatric medicine like SSRIs work as treatment because they physically impact your serotonin levels.

 

[Shouta]

Perhaps it's not so from a 1st person perspective (i.e. the person with those thoughts), but it's not a stretch to consider it as selfish from an external or 3rd party perspective. It, of course, depends on the situation. It's pretty hard to call someone with a debilitating terminal illness selfish for seeking release from it, for example.

Even if suicide is selfish, why the fuck is it so horribly criticized for being so? Other selfish behaviors are not nearly as criticized or reviled, such as not getting a flu vaccine.

There are a number of reasons. I think the typical "will to survive or live" for someone that isn't afflicted with those thoughts tends to be strong and a source of criticism. It's one of the few instinctive or reflexive behaviors humans still have under normal circumstances, IMO.

Another reason I think it's criticized so heavily is because it's often the surrounding behavior and actions up until that point that color the end act to be selfish. Everything becomes self-centered to the person thinking of suicide. Being self-centered isn't actually abnormal for humans, as we are self-centered creatures. But it's the loss of empathetic faculty that I think people home in on though lack the ability to express it clearly. It's that lack of balance that creates the image, possibly.

Then there's the burden it puts on the people that are left behind. A few folks have touched upon it and there was a short editorial that that was reposted that basically summed up the thoughts. While it can be a release for someone from their pain, done in the wrong fashion only ends up transferring it to everyone else if it occurs without warning or without seeking a way to heal it. Losing someone you love is already difficulty but losing someone when you didn't know there was anything wrong or you weren't given the chance to help them is a far worse type of grief and pain. Rather than just being sadness, it's sadness, regret, anger, and etc.

But eh, I'm tired so I may not be typing incredibly clearly.

 

[RionaaM]

Yes.

You aren't going to convince people that view mental problems is something you can "get over" through sheer willpower if you can't prove that there is a physical defect that makes this difficult.


If you can't do that don't make comparisons of mental illness with physical impairments like blindness or cancer like the person I responded to did.

You don't get it, do you? There's a reason it's called mental illness: it doesn't originate in the body, but in the mind. Does that mean it's not real? (rhetorical question; I already know your answer)

 

[Chaplain]

I don't believe for a second you condemn yourself to hell by taking your own life - otherwise that would be the one sin that Christ didn't die for.

I agree that Christ died for all sins. But the Bible is clear that people can walk away from Jesus (reject Him) if they choose to do so (even after they are saved). This is talked about in the following verses which are addressed to Christians (not nonbelievers): 1 John 3:7-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Matthew 7:21-23.

God does not force anyone to receive His pardon for a persons sins, and he does not force them to remain in relationship with Him. That being said, only God knows what happens to a person who decides to take the life He has given them.

 

[Ziltoid]

You don't get it, do you? There's a reason it's called mental illness: it doesn't originate in the body, but in the mind. Does that mean it's not real? (rhetorical question; I already know your answer)

The mind is a product of your brain so in a sense it is a physical problem. But that's just semantics.

Not all illnesses are treated equally already, so whats the point.

So if we can't do'em all, don't try at all? Please.

 

[Air]

It is, but it's not something you should tell someone whose suicidal. They have to discover that themselves.

 

[Village]

It is, but it's not something you should tell someone whose suicidal. They have to discover that themselves.

the question is why should they care.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I think it's ironic that people who think it's selfish to commit suicide are selfish in and of themselves. They're worrying about how they will be affected when it comes down to it. Some of these people don't want to even try and help and would say to the depressed things like:

"Pull yourself up by your bootstraps."
"Stop feeling sorry for yourself"
"Pity party."
"There's people starving in Africa and YOU'RE depressed!?"

It's pretty much like victim blaming.

Granted, there are exceptions like if the person has wife and kids and didn't leave them with anything if they were able to. But I think it's just as selfish if not more to call depressed people and those who want or commit suicide selfish.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

the question is why should they care.

I think what someone said a couple of pages back was spot on:

Either they will care, because they don't want to die, but then calling them selfish and negative things might just compound whatever feeling is making them suicidal in the first place ("I'm so worthless, I should just die"-thang).

And if they won't care, you calling them selfish is either A) futile and/or B) self-righteous.

 

[Gintamen]

I think it's ironic that people who think it's selfish to commit suicide are selfish in and of themselves.

Everyone is selfish, you, me, 99% people on this world are selfish, what's your point?

"Pull yourself up by your bootstraps."
"Stop feeling sorry for yourself"
"Pity party."
"There's people starving in Africa and YOU'RE depressed!?"

It's pretty much like victim blaming.

Those are obviously idiotic approaches, I don't think anybody here, even those that say it's selfish would argue to use those words. Not to confront the problem. But what do we get if we can't say anything at all? 'Please die, it's your choice, my beloved son/brother/father/etc."

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Everyone is selfish, you, me, 99% people on this world are selfish, what's your point?

If that's true then why even argue this at all?

Those are obviously idiotic approaches, I don't think anybody here, even those that say it's selfish would argue to use those words. Not to confront the problem. But what do we get if we can't say anything at all? 'Please die, it's your choice, my beloved son/brother/father/etc."

What someone has to do is show them love. Not tough love but give that person a real reason to live. Try not to judge the person and most certainly never compare that person's problems with the problems of others. Thing is, many folks will give you the lines I posted. During my depression and during my suicide attempts, I had very few people give me a reason to live on. I've had people outright tell me "go ahead, nobody's going to miss you" like I was some kind of violent criminal. Many people think the depressed and suicidal are weak and treat them in such a manner.

If people treated them with kindness, understanding and love and give them an honest, solid reason for living it may help. It may not. It's still better than putting someone down.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Everyone is selfish, you, me, 99% people on this world are selfish, what's your point?

Some of us can recognize it in ourselves and not be dicks to others about it.

 

[oneils]

I can only speak for myself and my experiences, the next person may have a different experience altogether, so I do not claim to speak for anyone else. What helped me, may or may not help anyone else. The best thing Ive found is when you feel there is a problem or you worry about someone you love, it is best to get them help instead of letting them go through things alone hoping they will snap out of it. Sometimes that isnt enough though. If people are determined to go through with it, not much you can do to stop it, but at least you tried to be there. Mental illness is tough to go through, even more so when you do it alone. Hopefully one day they will have a better understanding of depression and will find a system to recover from depression quickly and stop the endless suffering. Sorry if I upset anyone, I dont claim to be a professional or know about everyones suffering with depression, I just wanted to give an account of my experience of living with someone with severe depression and suicidal thoughts.

Some really great advice. I lived with a women who suffered from MDD and bulimia, for three years. I learned a lot about mental illness during that time. All you can really do is try to be there. It was really trying, but she did get better (relatively speaking).

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Why should I care what I do to myself if nobody else does?

Not selfish.

 

[FYC]

I'm sorry to bump this, but I had a thought recently.

When I was in high school, I came very close to killing myself twice. The first time, I tied a belt around my neck and was ready to hang myself. I started choking myself with it out of rage, but then I had a flash: My little sister. Crying, upset, confused. I love my little sister more than anything on this festering ball of shit. And I like to tell myself she loves me too. So, I stopped. The other time, I grabbed about 5 different containers of random pills and shoved 'em into my backpack. I was going to take them to school and down all of them in the bathroom. But again, I had a flash, this time my parents. So I put them back.

Let's say my family were to either die, or stop giving a shit about me completely. I have nobody else who would really give two fucks if I die. At most, I would expect a lot of people to make jokes about it. My space in the courses at college would be given to someone more deserving, my counsellor would never have to see me again and could use the spare block to help someone else with a much more serious problem than fucking anxiety, any and all resources wasted on me could go to someone who needs it much more. What the hell, I could even kill myself in a remote area so the police wouldn't need to waste their time collecting the body, doing the paperwork and all that jazz. What if I donate everything I have before leaving? Nobody would be negatively affected, and at best, I would be bringing relief / joy.

Cliche perhaps, but the world would be a better place, would it not? Is it selfish for me at this point? I suppose one could argue I could use my life to help people in need and try to spread kindess, but I'm simply too broken to do that. My PDD-NOS and anxiety prevent me from being able to interact with people. Shit, I can't even drive a goddamn car. I'm weak. I don't have the intelligence nor the strength to really help someone. If I had the money, I'd like to donate more to people who really need it. In reality, however, that's not a possibility. I can't function in public. I spend almost every hour of my life locked in room, minus the few hours to go to school every week. As you probably guessed from the above, I am little more than a pathetic blob of pity and whining. My life is a goddamn miracle compared to others, my health is relatively good, my family takes very good care of me, yet I think like this.

I contribute nothing good, and I'm also a burden. I lack the potential to become anything decent, and I've been too much of an idiot in the past, and remain an idiot today. I have no significant talent and am mediocre at best in just about everything. There are people much more deserving to live than me. Yet, here I am. Once the only people who would be negatively affected are gone, then I must wonder if I'm selfish to go through with such a thing.

I'm not really sure what else to say. My siblings are younger than me, though, so unless something tragic happens to them, I think I'm stuck here. Fascinating. Interesting thread to read, though.

 

[Septimius]

I'm not going to pretend I remember your avatar or name. I'm not going to try and feed you with something that's a bent word to make you feel better. I'll just tell.

Trying to be objective about it, if you walk over to an apple tree, did you ever feel that some of the apples on it didn't deserve to be on the tree? What more are we, on this planet, than a peopleing? We're a fascinating structure in a vast place. We're the cosmos that has finally stacked itself up enough to take a look at itself. We're not a split second in the history of the cosmos, the great epitome of the evolution of genetics has not made you as its final product. Not me. We ARE the universe, we are evolution. We are just as much of this planet, and this planet, as the apples on a tree are the tree.

None of those apples are better or worse than any other. They are of the same function, they are of the same genes. The apples that fall and eventually become a tree somewhere else are not better apples than the ones that didn't. You can't just have an apple-tree with apples that are brought far away. Does that mean it's better to be an apple-tree somewhere else? Not at all. Does that mean the point is to be an apple-tree? We just said we can't just have apples that are brought away, and as such, the point cannot be that. The point is to apple. That joint effort is what makes more trees.

You're affecting my life in a positive way, right now. You're stimulating me. Thoughts spin from hearing what you've said. I could sit here and say it's sad to hear about your situation, but in fact, it's fascinating to me. You've reached out to me and spawned a myriad of thoughts, thoughts that will forever affect my life. How? Who knows. The fact that I am writing this, somehow changes my life. You've affected my life. You've had an imprint on all passerbys.

I am not qualified to say what conditions should be tolerable and which shouldn't. Quite frankly, dying is such a taboo. People treat dying people much the same way they treat drunk people. It's as if they're not acting right when they're terminally ill. But of course, there's not a single thing more natural to a human being than dying. You wouldn't be a full human being if you did. You can't have an ocean with only crests. You need the turfs, too. So, no, dying isn't the worst thing you can do. But it's all just so fascinating, isn't it? Looking out this window, I can see drops of rain falling. I can see the way water affects the materials on the roof across the road, and I see it's reflected different; wet. People drive by in the streets, people carry around complex networks of thoughts and friends. It's all real. It's just there, in what I imagine to be one of those messy networks you can see of your friends' friends, only it spans everywhere. Through the ground, all the way to China. Through the clouds, until the vector you're on hits the closest star. It's all something. It's all so vast. And we are it. Here we are.

Some of us create music. Some of us are prostitutes. Others wank off as a full-time job. Some cry a lot. Some laugh a lot. It's the same complexity, again. You could try and isolate one person from everything, and see what that one person really is. But just as you can't say someone is walking without also defining the ground they're walking on, just the same are no human beings alone. We're all shaped by others. I'm shaped by you. You are me, because you shape me, and I'm you, because you shape me. Just like you can't have a flower growing, without the field in which it grows, with its conditions, I am not me without all of you. Without the entirety of GAF. People I've never read anything off - they write something that another member reads. They respond to a different topic with something else than they would otherwise, and I read it. And suddenly I'm brought to the person I haven't met.

Your thoughts will forever resonate with me, through me, and in me, in all I do. Even if you died, you'd be in me. You'd be me.

As such, it's all rather inconsequential, isn't it? And that's why it's so fucking awesome. Just like you can't define that apple from being good, you can't define a single person as being bad. There's nothing inherently bad in the universe. You're not here to not make a negative impact on anything. You're not even here to make good impacts. I don't know if you'd call the impact you left in this thread good or bad, but the only thing that matters is that it's an impact.

A static world is a dead world. That is why this universe is alive. Without you, the world would be a bit more static. The universe would be a bit more dead. But now you're rumbling things deep to my core. So you're making it more dynamic. You're the life of the universe. And you just can't help it. So maybe it's not so important if it's good or bad what we do. It's the ripples we see from that that matters. That's where the universe lives.

I can't say anything about your situation. I don't know your parents, I don't know the people around you. I can't say if it's worth it or not, but I can say that you're affecting people, and that's fun. I'm having heaps of fun, rambling on as I do, now. It's the stuff and nonsense that spins the world, much like the birds in the trees go 'chrip chrip'. They don't do it to get a mate, they just do it, because it's fucking awesome. I think what you do is fucking awesome, much like the trees are dancing in the wind.

I'd say it's so awesome I'd be cool to see it be kept up, but I think death is far too much of a taboo. You're in control, is there anywhere you want to go?

 

[FYC]

I'm not going to pretend I remember your avatar or name. I'm not going to try and feed you with something that's a bent word to make you feel better. I'll just tell.

Trying to be objective about it, if you walk over to an apple tree, did you ever feel that some of the apples on it didn't deserve to be on the tree? What more are we, on this planet, than a peopleing? We're a fascinating structure in a vast place. We're the cosmos that has finally stacked itself up enough to take a look at itself. We're not a split second in the history of the cosmos, the great epitome of the evolution of genetics has not made you as its final product. Not me. We ARE the universe, we are evolution. We are just as much of this planet, and this planet, as the apples on a tree are the tree.

None of those apples are better or worse than any other. They are of the same function, they are of the same genes. The apples that fall and eventually become a tree somewhere else are not better apples than the ones that didn't. You can't just have an apple-tree with apples that are brought far away. Does that mean it's better to be an apple-tree somewhere else? Not at all. Does that mean the point is to be an apple-tree? We just said we can't just have apples that are brought away, and as such, the point cannot be that. The point is to apple. That joint effort is what makes more trees.

You're affecting my life in a positive way, right now. You're stimulating me. Thoughts spin from hearing what you've said. I could sit here and say it's sad to hear about your situation, but in fact, it's fascinating to me. You've reached out to me and spawned a myriad of thoughts, thoughts that will forever affect my life. How? Who knows. The fact that I am writing this, somehow changes my life. You've affected my life. You've had an imprint on all passerbys.

I am not qualified to say what conditions should be tolerable and which shouldn't. Quite frankly, dying is such a taboo. People treat dying people much the same way they treat drunk people. It's as if they're not acting right when they're terminally ill. But of course, there's not a single thing more natural to a human being than dying. You wouldn't be a full human being if you did. You can't have an ocean with only crests. You need the turfs, too. So, no, dying isn't the worst thing you can do. But it's all just so fascinating, isn't it? Looking out this window, I can see drops of rain falling. I can see the way water affects the materials on the roof across the road, and I see it's reflected different; wet. People drive by in the streets, people carry around complex networks of thoughts and friends. It's all real. It's just there, in what I imagine to be one of those messy networks you can see of your friends' friends, only it spans everywhere. Through the ground, all the way to China. Through the clouds, until the vector you're on hits the closest star. It's all something. It's all so vast. And we are it. Here we are.

Some of us create music. Some of us are prostitutes. Others wank off as a full-time job. Some cry a lot. Some laugh a lot. It's the same complexity, again. You could try and isolate one person from everything, and see what that one person really is. But just as you can't say someone is walking without also defining the ground they're walking on, just the same are no human beings alone. We're all shaped by others. I'm shaped by you. You are me, because you shape me, and I'm you, because you shape me. Just like you can't have a flower growing, without the field in which it grows, with its conditions, I am not me without all of you. Without the entirety of GAF. People I've never read anything off - they write something that another member reads. They respond to a different topic with something else than they would otherwise, and I read it. And suddenly I'm brought to the person I haven't met.

Your thoughts will forever resonate with me, through me, and in me, in all I do. Even if you died, you'd be in me. You'd be me.

As such, it's all rather inconsequential, isn't it? And that's why it's so fucking awesome. Just like you can't define that apple from being good, you can't define a single person as being bad. There's nothing inherently bad in the universe. You're not here to not make a negative impact on anything. You're not even here to make good impacts. I don't know if you'd call the impact you left in this thread good or bad, but the only thing that matters is that it's an impact.

A static world is a dead world. That is why this universe is alive. Without you, the world would be a bit more static. The universe would be a bit more dead. But now you're rumbling things deep to my core. So you're making it more dynamic. You're the life of the universe. And you just can't help it. So maybe it's not so important if it's good or bad what we do. It's the ripples we see from that that matters. That's where the universe lives.

I can't say anything about your situation. I don't know your parents, I don't know the people around you. I can't say if it's worth it or not, but I can say that you're affecting people, and that's fun. I'm having heaps of fun, rambling on as I do, now. It's the stuff and nonsense that spins the world, much like the birds in the trees go 'chrip chrip'. They don't do it to get a mate, they just do it, because it's fucking awesome. I think what you do is fucking awesome, much like the trees are dancing in the wind.

I'd say it's so awesome I'd be cool to see it be kept up, but I think death is far too much of a taboo. You're in control, is there anywhere you want to go?

Thank you very much for taking the time to write this out. It means a tremendous amount. I don't know what else to say, but it's an amazing post. Sorry I didn't respond, I only just noticed the reply.

You're 100% right though. I am feeling better lately as well.

 

[Bururian]

Tolstoy always thought suicide was the brave way out.