Support NeoGAF

[The Kree]

Isn't the stated reason for the movie SS to fight high powered super heroes that get out of line? Fighting the joker in the first movie would seem to go against that mission. I mean, fighting one of their own people who went AWOL wasn't much better but at least it was kinda in line with their purpose.

The mission statement is the first thing out of whack. They shouldn't be assembled to deal with superpeople if they're mostly not superpeople themselves. And if they were superpeople capable of that, you then have to answer how were they ever caught and imprisoned. The whole premise just doesn't work.

A guy like Joker at least makes sense on a logistical level if he's a crime boss who's just really hard to get to without heavy casualties. You can write something reasonable around that.

 

[Jumeira]

I watched TDK again today with my wife (first time for her) and was floored once again with Heath's performance. My wife in particular was taken by his insanity, I had to explain gently that he sadly passed away

Outstanding film upon rewatch, I just can't believe how well paced the movie is on top of the various brilliant weaving themes and plot devices. Lots of moments I didn't pick up when I first watched it due to my head exploding at the brilliance of it, small things like when Batman is in Hong Kong, the Camera pans and shows a wide shot of a building then as it continues to circle Bruce appears and the thunderous music setting him up for something special. God that gave me chills.

 

[Slayven]

I like that the qualifcations for being on the team was either being able to climb shit or getting knocked out. Either DCCU is very low on meta humans or they didn't give a shit

 

[thepotatoman]

The mission statement is the first thing out of whack. They shouldn't be assembled to deal with superpeople if they're mostly not superpeople themselves. And if they were superpeople capable of that, you then have to answer how were they ever caught and imprisoned. The whole premise just doesn't work.

A guy like Joker at least makes sense on a logistical level if he's a crime boss who's just really hard to get to without heavy casualties. You can write something reasonable around that.

Or you could just want the guy dead without trial, or want to take back documents you don't want normal grunts or super heroes seeing.

I don't know why everything in the snyderverse has to be about everyone freaking out over superman's powers.

 

[RoninChaos]

HER SWORD TRAPS THE SOUL OF ITS VICTIMS

That over explaining mother fucker.

 

[J_Viper]

and also recast the Joker.

 

[EBreda]

I've never even seen this movie but the promo shots of Lehto as The Joker were enough to to get me angry. Horrible casting.

 

[jroc74]

Just a more grounded villain and crisis in general would have been better; Joker or not.

Yup.

 

[SpaceWolf]

I've never even seen this movie but the promo shots of Lehto as The Joker were enough to to get me angry. Horrible casting.

Casting Leto was inspired. The writing and costuming were what sunk that particular version of the character.

 

[RyougaSaotome]

Even before the bad villain, I think the whole concept was fundamentally flawed in that these villains never felt like they were written like villains.

They're written to be likable outcasts instead. The whole climax where everyone harps on about being family or whatever was mind numbing, not just because it was COMPLETELY unearned, but because these are killers and scumbags and bad people.

I wanted bad people being forced to cooperate. Not good people at heart who did bad things because reasons.

Comic book films can survive bad villains (we've seen this tons of times) provided the other pieces work. In this case, they simply didn't.

Also didn't help that the action sequences were woefully uninspired. Gun battles against cg zombie things. Occasional shot of Harley hitting a thing with a bat.

 

[Bleepey]

As a comic reader, if he claims to have taken stuff from comics, he must've been on crack when he read them. He has an unhealthy obsession with gang culture and shouldn't go anywhere near a DC film again.

I truly fuck with Ayer's joker. Like damaged tattoo might be too on the nose but the try hard gangsta with the drug lords of IG aesthetic.... I...I truly fuck with.

 

[Bleepey]

But that wouldn't make sense, you see, because the Squad was created by Waller to battle hostile Inhumans, possibly as strong as Superman! Which they are totally qualified for!

People keep repeating this, but Batman was publically shown to have lived to tell the tale

 

[Staccat0]

The film needed to have the Joker as the main villian... and also recast the Joker.

I fucking despise Leto even in his supposedly grounded roles, but I think the director can take the L for Leto's joker

 

[watershed]

But Jared Leto's Joker was kind of bad. It was a spotty performance that felt forced at times.

 

[PSqueak]

He needs a time machine to go back and tell Jared Leto he failed the audition.

If he didn't change anything else, this wouldn't save the movie, i mean, Leto was like, a total of 5 minutes in it.

 

[Staccat0]

But Jared Leto's Joker was kind of bad. It was a spotty performance that felt forced at times.

I would describe the entire movie as "willfully incoherent and uneven" so to me that is a red flag that Ayer didn't steer Leto any better than he chose takes or picked shots.

I'm not gonna spend a lot of energy defending Leto, but he wasn't really a sore thumb for me. That movie is a fucking mess creatively. He was just one of the many people trying to keep their heads above the water. Unfortunately he was trying to do so while playing The Joker, haha

Like seriously, the fucking editing and composition in that movie is some film school shit.

 

[Timu]

He needed a time machine to redo everything to try to make it actually good.

 

[RedHill]

Get ready for stoner hippie poison ivy and a Catwoman with the prostitute angle played up to 9000

 

[aeolustl]

Making Joker the villain does not solve many of the problems in the movie.

They tried to justify many elements in the plot itself and caused them to justify those too.
For example, Griggs.
The first half spent too much time for his character when his appearance was to justify how Harley Quinn got her phone inside the prison. Yeah, we know Griggs is bad, being awful to them, and ... that's it? He is not related to the rest of the story while Harley told him that he was so screwed.


And one of my biggest problem with the film is how stupid some of the scripts are, especially those from Rick Flag. This is a movie, not an Audible book. Example:

and
HER HEART OUT. WE CAN END THIS.
and
WHILE WE'RE FIGHTING, THAT THING'S LAYING WASTING TO THE WHOLE DAMN WORLD.

Particularly the last one. You just showed us that thing is destroying the world, and you showed it right after this. It makes no sense to tell us through Flag.

 

[Compbros]

People keep repeating this, but Batman was publically shown to have lived to tell the tale

Against a non-hostile Superman, not one, as they put it, willing to rip open the white house roof and grab the president...In fact, do they even know Superman and Batman fought?

 

[CaviarMeths]

Based on the product we got, I'm not sure I would trust Ayer to write a compelling villain, grounded or not. I get that he only had 6 weeks to write the script, but even at a conceptual level, it was a total mess. I don't see anything good there that would have shone through with an extra few months on the script. His sensibilities are whack.

 

[SoulUnison]

When it was in production people thought it would either be Batman or Joker as the "target" for the Squad to take down.

Waller assembling a squad to take down Batman because he's a vigilante element she can't control only to find themselves in the middle of a Batman VS Joker conflict that they're forced to switch allegiances/objectives on because Joker is the larger/more immediate threat would have been an A+ premise.

What we got just doesn't work.

 

[The Kree]

Waller assembling a squad to take down Batman because he's a vigilante element she can't control only to find themselves in the middle of a Batman VS Joker storyline that they're forced to switch allegiances/objectives on because Joker is the larger/more immediate threat would have been an A+ premise.

What we got just doesn't work.

I like that idea, but there's still a problem. We had just seen Batman almost kill Superman. You might be asking a lot of the audience to believe that he couldn't handle Joker alone. At least if it's just the squad all you're asking of the audience is to watch them prove themselves.

 

[Compbros]

I like that idea, but there's still a problem. We had just seen Batman almost kill Superman. You might be asking a lot of the audience to believe that he couldn't handle Joker alone. At least if it's just the squad all you're asking of the audience is to watch them prove themselves.

That can be brushed off as knowing Superman's weakness and studying him to learn his patterns. Joker is wild, there's nothing to plan against, nothing to act on, just react.

 

[Icolin]

mark my words this motherfucker will be cast as the next joker

He'd be an awesome Scarecrow though.

 

[clarknova156]

I wish I could get back my $20 dollars I spent watching this horrible fucking movie.

 

[neorej]

Meet Slipknot, he can climb anything.


Best supervillain introduction ever.

 

[inm8num2]

Meet Slipknot, he can climb anything.

His rope chaps the soles of its victims.

 

[Timu]

I wish I could get back my $20 dollars I spent watching this horrible fucking movie.

You spent 20 bucks on it???=O

 

[Vibranium]

I didn't like how Deadshot was going around telling people how much of a bad guy he was when he was more of an anti-hero, they made him too sympathetic (Will Smith I guess). He should have had the backstory of killing his brother alongside having a daughter in the DCEU. By making him more unhinged, he could have had an arc about coming to terms with that and learning to see value in his life.

Captain Boomerang was my favorite character in the movie. Harley and Joker were badly handled, their relationship needs to be properly portrayed. I think Leto could deliver a better Joker as a main villain but who knows. I would get rid of the damaged tattoo and make him wear more classy suits like the one on the helicopter.

 

[Dark Ninja]

Needed more music mixed into it.

 

[shoreu]

Even before the bad villain, I think the whole concept was fundamentally flawed in that these villains never felt like they were written like villains.

They're written to be likable outcasts instead. The whole climax where everyone harps on about being family or whatever was mind numbing, not just because it was COMPLETELY unearned, but because these are killers and scumbags and bad people.

I wanted bad people being forced to cooperate. Not good people at heart who did bad things because reasons.

Comic book films can survive bad villains (we've seen this tons of times) provided the other pieces work. In this case, they simply didn't.

Also didn't help that the action sequences were woefully uninspired. Gun battles against cg zombie things. Occasional shot of Harley hitting a thing with a bat.

I mean many of these guys are outcast who never really had a choice other than a fucked up life. Like that's exactly what they are.

 

[Bleepey]

Against a non-hostile Superman, not one, as they put it, willing to rip open the white house roof and grab the president...In fact, do they even know Superman and Batman fought?

Yeah a news camera was recording it.

 

[neorej]

Needed more music mixed into it.

I felt it was missing some 30 Seconds To Mars epicness.

 

[Mooreberg]

And one of my biggest problem with the film is how stupid some of the scripts are, especially those from Rick Flag. This is a movie, not an Audible book. Example:

and
HER HEART OUT. WE CAN END THIS.
and
WHILE WE'RE FIGHTING, THAT THING'S LAYING WASTING TO THE WHOLE DAMN WORLD.

Particularly the last one. You just showed us that thing is destroying the world, and you showed it right after this. It makes no sense to tell us through Flag.

It is amazing that Tom Hardy was initially bummed out about about scheduling conflicts keeping him out of this movie. If the additional shooting in Argentina for The Revenant is what kept him out of this, it is the single greatest accidental career move of all time.

 

[Wuthering_Heights]

Leto was a pretty awesome Joker, definitely hope we see more of him.

Would have made more sense to be cast as the main villain, too, though I still really enjoyed the movie.

 

[neorej]

It is amazing that Tom Hardy was initially bummed out about about scheduling conflicts keeping him out of this movie. If the additional shooting in Argentina for The Revenant is what kept him out of this, it is the single greatest accidental career move of all time.

I can only imagine that he watched Suicide Squad and thought "whew, dodged a bullet right there."

 

[Pandaman]

Going in I expected a movie about the government trying to kill off the joker under the guise of a gang war and that the squad would be dodging batman all movie. Could have easily seem Waller selling the squad as an american solution to targets they'd just drone strike if they lived abroad.

 

[RedHill]

Not to mention, where were the Justice League during all of these events? Doing nothing to stop it? This threat was bigger than the Suicide Squad.

 

[Zen Aku]

Even before the bad villain, I think the whole concept was fundamentally flawed in that these villains never felt like they were written like villains.

They're written to be likable outcasts instead. The whole climax where everyone harps on about being family or whatever was mind numbing, not just because it was COMPLETELY unearned, but because these are killers and scumbags and bad people.

I wanted bad people being forced to cooperate. Not good people at heart who did bad things because reasons.

Comic book films can survive bad villains (we've seen this tons of times) provided the other pieces work. In this case, they simply didn't.

Also didn't help that the action sequences were woefully uninspired. Gun battles against cg zombie things. Occasional shot of Harley hitting a thing with a bat.

So basically they tried to pull a Guardians of the Galaxy but failed because SS villains are actual villains.

 

[neorej]

Not to mention, where were the Justice League during all of these events? Doing nothing to stop it? This threat was bigger than the Suicide Squad.

They haven't been assembled yet. The post-credits scene shows Wayne getting files on Meta-Humans from Waller.

Which makes you wonder why Waller opted to create a team of people like Slipknot and Harley Quinn to fight superman, when she knows Flash and Aquaman exist. Perhaps she couldn't find them, but if that's the case, what use are the files to Bruce?

 

[CaviarMeths]

Not to mention, where were the Justice League during all of these events? Doing nothing to stop it? This threat was bigger than the Suicide Squad.

Does the Justice League even really exist yet? We know Batman and Flash are operating alone right now, that's about it. We don't know what Wondy, Aquaman, or Cyborg are doing.

Which makes you wonder why Waller opted to create a team of people like Slipknot and Harley Quinn to fight superman, when she knows Flash and Aquaman exist. Perhaps she couldn't find them, but if that's the case, what use are the files to Bruce?

That's not why she made the team. That's just how she wrapped it up and sold it to the government to get the approval and funding. The SS exists to be expendable in situations where sending in a regular black ops team like Flagg and his buddies is too high risk. The movie did a terrible job at conveying that, but we do see Waller murder some random FBI agents for no reason, so we know she loves working with expendable people that she can discard when they become inconvenient to her.

Unlike other recent movies starring a team on a suicide mission though (Rogue One, Magnificent Seven), Suicide Squad was an overly safe movie that didn't want to kill any of its marketable actors.

 

[RedHill]

They haven't been assembled yet. The post-credits scene shows Wayne getting files on Meta-Humans from Waller.

Which makes you wonder why Waller opted to create a team of people like Slipknot and Harley Quinn to fight superman, when she knows Flash and Aquaman exist. Perhaps she couldn't find them, but if that's the case, what use are the files to Bruce?

So? Batman and Wonder Woman are allied. Flash is around and in costume. You'd think one of them would show up for a worldly threat like that

 

[Rad-]

I don't think Leto was that bad. He wasn't a great Joker but his performance didn't bother me either. He did better than most of the cast with a harder character.

 

[neorej]

So? Batman and Wonder Woman are allied. Flash is around and in costume. You'd think one of them would show up for a worldly threat like that

Comicslogic determine that they stay confined to their respected cities. Batman didn't do shit to intervene in Man of Steel and Metropolis is right next to Gotham.

 

[DavidDesu]

Yeah the film lost me with all the voodoo stuff. Just completely ruins any sense of suspension of disbelief and sense of drama as you know they'll defeat her in some half assed way (and I don't exactly remember how they killed her, but some sort of macguffin did it, didn't it?).

Half of the squad were ludicrously forgettable. Indeed I only really remember Harley Quinn and Deadshot. And yeah that Joker... nope.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Does the Justice League even really exist yet? We know Batman and Flash are operating alone right now, that's about it. We don't know what Wondy, Aquaman, or Cyborg are doing.



That's not why she made the team. That's just how she wrapped it up and sold it to the government to get the approval and funding. The SS exists to be expendable in situations where sending in a regular black ops team like Flagg and his buddies is too high risk. The movie did a terrible job at conveying that, but we do see Waller murder some random FBI agents for no reason, so we know she loves working with expendable people that she can discard when they become inconvenient to her.

Unlike other recent movies starring a team on a suicide mission though (Rogue One, Magnificent Seven), Suicide Squad was an overly safe movie that didn't want to kill any of its marketable actors.

Are you saying Rope Guy is not marketable?

 

[CaviarMeths]

Are you saying Rope Guy is not marketable?

Adam Beach is a fellow Prairie Canadian, so he's marketable to me, but that really just makes it more disappointing that the movie did him so dirty lol.

 

[Zen Aku]

So? Batman and Wonder Woman are allied. Flash is around and in costume. You'd think one of them would show up for a worldly threat like that

This is the same problem as the Avengers. Where was the Avengers when Thor was fighting aliens in the UK? Where was the Avengers when the president was kidnapped in Iron Man 2? Where was the Avengers where helicarriers are dropping out of the sky in Winter Soldier?

It's things like that when you just gotta suspense your disbelief and realize that if the Avengers or Justice League shows up for everything. There wouldn't be any solo movies or movies about other teams.

 

[neorej]

Are you saying Rope Guy is not marketable?

There's an entire range of Slipknot merchandise next to the 50 Shades of Grey merch.