SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Then the thread title should be changed since this obviously isn't a review.
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SuperBunnyHop: 8th Gen Console Console Gaming Review
- Thread starter Protagonist Jake
- Start date
Then the thread title should be changed since this obviously isn't a review.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I really hate these kinds of statements. The consoles that "should" be selling are indeed selling.
This is fairly true. I have a PS4 to play all my games on. Exclusives and multiplats (AAA and indie) are both played on it. I didn't buy it to complement a PC, and I'm going to take a guess that most people in the general market didn't either. They bought it to be their go-to system.
re·view (rĭ-vyo͞o′
v. re·viewed, re·view·ing, re·views
v.tr.
1. To look over, study, or examine again
What about the video isn't a review?
Boombox On
Member
I have a hard time believing that, particularly with the PS4.
It's a review. It just serves a different purpose than what you would see on game review sites.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Since we're in the unique realm of a forum that houses gaming enthusiasts, do we know what the numbers of second/third platforms was in past gens? How many consoles does the average person actually own?
I mean for this gen, I own a Wii U, 3DS, PSV, PS4 and have a laptop that I game on when I need to. But do most people care about owning more than one console? I feel like those of us that invest in extra platforms are anomalies.
Exclusive games, I feel like it's less. But if we're going by sheer number of Multiplat AAA, exclusives, indies, etc, then yeah I'm pretty sure the PS4 is doing fine.
Of course things could change, but it's quite true so far, unfortunately. Even with downloadable titles included.
The PS1 had a total of ~3,500 games.
The PS2 had ~3800 games.
There are 812 PS3 games.
There are, so far, 178 games released for PS4. If the PS4 lasts for 6 years, it will have ~700 games release for it at this pace.
Phrozenflame500
Member
FPS doesn't really affect reaction times as much as you make it out to be, the "gaming mouse and 2ms monitor" are present on consoles in the form of different TVs and 3rd party controllers, and I'm not sure what you mean by "gun stats". The only valid setting you mention is FOV, and that's often capped so that there's no competitive advantage.
EmptySpace
Banned
there are less exclusives yet people blame the consoles for it?
it's the market and the business today.
not to mention, i'd wager the whiners today weren't playing on two systems when the mega drive was around.
point is, the overwhelming majority buy one system to play games on.
maybe these whiners should blame the consumers for not being able to expand the market as was the case in the past. also, blame the introduction of mobile and other gaming devices from taking away marketshare hence contracting the overall market hence restricting the quantity of games and tne exclusives moreso.
it really is such a tired and overblown argument.
I kind of agree with him. I'm not interested in bloodborne so the only exclusive I consider for the rest of this year would be Ratchet I suppose.
Maybe I'm misdocumented but it seems objectively true to me that there isn't a lot of exclusives to play on PS4 (or Xbone for that matter).
Now that doesn't mean you can't enjoy the system or that the system is objectively crap. For example I don't regret at all buying my Xbox One because I love Sunset Overdrive so much, but it doesn't change the fact that it's only 1 game. Alternatively, most people wouldn't give a crap about "number of exclusives" because they only game on PS4 so have a lot of games to enjoy anyway. Also, some people who own PCs still buy some multiplat games on consoles because for them console = controller/couch/living room/multiple viewers and they keep PC for kb/m and online games, etc, etc.
The enjoyment is subjective, but the numbers are objective.
WrenchNinja
Member
I'm not a PC guy so a lot of this doesn't really resonate me outside of how inconvenient the console experience has become with installs and patches. But then again, this was an issue last generation as well.
I'm satisfied with the line ups so far and I'm excited for the future.
I'm satisfied with the line ups so far and I'm excited for the future.
And what makes you think that? Age of Wonders I plan on picking up along with Divintiy: Original Sin (Big fan of the fact they got co-op in an RPG). Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall I haven't looked into much outside it's kickstarter. Isometric turn based RPG? Path of Exile I have but havne't played much. Wasteland 2 I've never really been fussed about. Legend of Grimrock 2, never been a big fan of dungeon crawlers. Pillars of Eternity had me drawn in the minute they showed that video where they had some awesome pseudo 3d effects in a 2d plane.
Again though, what makes any of them Killer titles? Cause you said so? The biggest selling title I know of (Path of Exile is F2P) out that list is Divinity: Original Sin. Driveclub in it's first week sold more than it has in it's lifetime.
What I'm getting at is simply most of what he says is opinion, not fact. I agree with a lot of it. I just don't understand why he bashes the consoles for what you could arguably use against the PC also.
So again on your last sentence... just because you've said those titles are 'killer' doesn't mean they are.
DrROBschiz
Member
Then the context needs to be explicit as such
Because otherwise I am not seeing much difference between last gen outside of PS4 taking up 360's old mantle.
AS far as exclusive volume.. is it truly less than in the same timeframe last gen? Are we taking into account all the factors that play into this?
Such as the reduction of larger developement studios as a whole and the pushing of new growth that tends to focus on multiplatform?
The discussion might mean less about mountains of exclusives and mean more about what environment is best for you as a player
There is a solid argument to be made for choosing to invest in gaming PCs as always but thats also where people begins splitting in so many ways with regards to investment and preferences.
entremet
Member
I don't remember this rhetoric when Wii was doing gangbuster lol.
All it means it that the system has good games and deserves more success. You can say the same thing about the Dreamcast and Vita.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Do you have the precise numbers to compare the PS4 or X1 to the PS3 or 360 at this point in their life cycle?
Neither of those systems deserved success. They deserved to fail because the market rejected them.
PS4 is my Bloodborne machine, I bought 0 retail $60 dollar releases for it in the year of 2014.
The only game I bought on my PS4 since launch was Strider, PC/WiiU had me covered for that entire year until BB next week. It will probably have me covered until Persona 5 afterwards as well...
Yeah he's completely right.
The only game I bought on my PS4 since launch was Strider, PC/WiiU had me covered for that entire year until BB next week. It will probably have me covered until Persona 5 afterwards as well...
Yeah he's completely right.
I'm just a junior. I don't wield that kind of power, mate.
Phrozenflame500
Member
It's certainly critical, it's an article/report, and it's both a critique and an evaluation.
What's wrong with calling it a review?
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
As it's been said, that's the effect of rising development costs. PC gamers are so focused on Sony's output, when if they looked around they'd see that delays are happening all around. Rising development costs are also the reason third party publishers are making everything multiplatform. That's just the way it is in this day and age.
So if you're primarily a PC gamer, your best bet is to wait until there's a decent amount of exclusives that interest you. Do your research instead of jumping on a console only to complain that you can already play the majority of third party games. That's your fault.
members don't wield that power either. It's only the red ninjas.
DrROBschiz
Member
Yeah its such a werid thing to leverage against the PS4 as a platform but I am hearing it all the time on here
The answers seem obvious but I think its more about PC players venting frustrations about the games that they would rather not jump through console hoops to be able to play.
This is a really flimsy argument. It is still a review by definition. More on point, he is very clear about his background and previous impressions prior to the launch of the consoles and when and how he acquired them. Even disregarding that, he approaches this from both the perspective of a previous console owner and a current PC gamer. Being either of these or even having never been a part of any gaming experience, would not invalidate his attempt to review his experience of the consoles over the time period he has mentioned - ie actually owning them, and using them and the games
entremet
Member
Members actually do. But only for 1 minute after the thread is created lol. I've edited my thread titles if I'm quick.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Amazing games according to whom? It clearly does not have amazing games for the larger public. And using Metacritic as a gouge for quality is hilarious. And no, old hardware with backwards policies like no real account system, and much inferior OS should be selling as it is selling right no, and no more.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
That is a seriously dramatic decline. Is that mostly mobile migration? Good lord.
I understand the reason. I was, as linked earlier, one of the very first people to raise the alarm about the potential dangers of relentlessly increasing development costs -- at least, on this forum.
I didn't mean to suggest that the PS4 doesn't have exclusive content because it's a stupid ugly console for dumb dumb heads. I only meant to state that it has little exclusive content. The reason are the rising development costs, as you stated. But whatever the reason, it has little compelling exclusive content.
That may not matter for many, as I have also already stated. But for someone who already has a gaming PC, it does matter.
Boombloxer
Member
It's also not quite true, in part based on the volume of titles.
But it's a minority opinion, which is to be expected given the sales of both.
This is a pretty fair point--none of the star studios save Sucker Punch has released their next-gen games yet.
I also think that it's fairly deliberate, as a really, really great title is worth the investment time and return.
entremet
Member
Studios closing up shop.
Major publishers putting more money in bigger single releases.
Mobile migration.
Rising dev cost.
Poop!
Member
Well, last gen a PC +PS3 combo was FTW. You had awesome first party exclusives, free online play, some games like Portal 2 with cross PS3 and PC love. But now as a PC gamer, I can't find any reason to pick up a PS4 even though I want one.
PS3 may have been a lesser hardware system but it kicks the PS4 in the nuts on the exclusive front. Remember, the PS3 was barely a year old when Uncharted 1 was released.
Mostly due to rising development costs. EA released over 100 console games a year as recently as 2006; they released 17 games in 2013. In the PS1 era, you could have 100 developers make 10 games; now, you may need 100 developers to develop a single game in the same time frame.
But yes, additionally, the casual market -- which exists on PS1 and PS2, but rose to prominence most notably with the Wii -- has abandoned consoles.
entremet
Member
You should make a thread about this. It's an interesting discussion, especially given the recent shakeups.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Thats because the Wii did not cover all bases and missed a significant amount of third party support, both Japanese and Western.
Its staggering how some people do not recognise this. Gaming output from all devs is down due to games requiring more time, more resources and more money to make. Its only natural. Will be interesting to see how much that decrease is this gen though. I feel PS4 has a chance of ending up with more games than the PS3.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I'm not interested in totals. The totals paint a picture, and I've seen it before. I understand that we're likely to get far less games. I'm more curious about the year-by-year decline comparison. How many games do most consoles put out in the first year? Is it down 80%? 70%? 95%?
At the very least it will slow the pace significantly, if for no other reason than that the PS3 was (for most of its lifespan) the third place console, while the PS4 will live its entire existence as the unquestioned best selling console of its generation. It will also likely sell better than the PS3 in absolute numbers, too.
Remember that last gen there were a ton of must own games after the first year for all three consoles, same with the gen before it.
This reductionist bullshit that every gen starts off slow, that the quality of games will increase just cause, is just that, bullshit. The videogame landscape is different, denying that or trying to paint other gens in a similar fashion reeks of purchase justification and nothing else.
Why own a console when:
1. Japanese development is taking PCs/Steam into account
2. The exclusives come out at a snails pace and aren't even that different than before (on the PS4 and Xbone thus far)
3. Sales and a ton of other consumer friendly options only on PC
4. Multiplayer is behind a paywall for PS4/Xbone
Yes, you can have fun owning a PS4 or Xbone, no one will deny that. But for many people these consoles haven't brought new experiences to the table, which cannot be said for previous gens. Last gen, online functionality changed games entirely. Patches for console owners, seamless multiplayer, DLC/expansions, UIs that provide players with a ton of social options. Along with games that were incredibly polished and/or felt like new experiences altogether.
The gen before that was essentially a gaming renaissance. 3D games didn't look like complete ass, gameplay and AI quirks only possible on newer hardware. In 2001 the PS2 got many games that cemented what that gen was all about, those games influenced the entire gen.
This gen thus far has mainly been iterative and not much else.
I don't have that information and don't have a way to get it; I was only showing that we're getting far fewer games overall.
I suspect, as stated, that the PS4 at least in relation to the PS3 is likely to slow the process of software contraction considerably. The system will sell almost certainly sell more than the PS3 and live its entire life as the best selling console of its generation rather than the third/second best. By contrast, Nintendo will see a particularly sharp decline this generation, as their system will sell considerably worse than the Wii did, and be a distant third through the duration of the generation.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
It doesn't have to be though. Producing quality games is arguably cheaper than ever, but large publishers are only really interested in selling gigantic numbers per title, instead of selling many titles moderately.
There has been a flood of really high quality games from independent developers in the last 5 years or so that were made for a fraction of the cost of many larger titles.
I knew rising costs were a problem, but I had no idea it had gotten this bad.
DrROBschiz
Member
Well not far fewer games overall....
Far fewer exclusives, AAA, and mid tier sure
Otherwise I feel like we get more software than ever on all platforms at a much faster pace thanks to low end development
Boombox On
Member
As someone who primarily plays on PC and doesn't even have a next-gen console... this is just sad. Truly sad. It's as if AAA publishers - the few left that have yet to implode on themselves - are left alone to carry an entire console generation because casual games are gone and Indie/AA are more welcome in PC territory than consoles.
Magic Mushroom
Member
The Wii U took some time to get going too though. I think the PS4 will end up with an exellent library when all is said and done and this month will be a great one for the machine.
I just linked some data to show you that this is not the case. The PS4 has a chance to pass the PS3 if the generation goes 7+ years instead of 5-6, but it will be dwarfed by both the PS1, PS2 and Wii unless it seriously picks up the pace. Which is possible, of course. Things can change. But the contraction of game releases has been a persistent trend on consoles for over a decade now.
Smaller indie titles most definitely help slow the trend, but (so far) they have not reversed it.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Thats some revisionist logic if I have ever seen one lol. Generally its the case that a consoles 2nd/3rd has a better lineup simply due to third parties and first parties release schedule.
I did not buy a PS3 till 2009 where the number of games I wanted reached around 5 (RC ToD + ACiT, UC2, VC and DeS). I'm getting a PS4 in its 2nd year due to the same metric ( Bloodborne, RC, DQH, FF Type 0 HD, Persona 5, Ys 8). Its something thats subjective as well.
1.
Only 2 of those games in the announced list are coming to PC. I've seen so many PC users buying a PS4 for Bloodborne, and I highly doubt that will be the last example. I'm not even listing the full list of Japanese games on PS4 btw, thats only a part of it.
If you were a 360 owner in 2006 and 2007, or if you followed the games coming out on the 360 during that time period, it isn't. Not at all.
I'm not a PC gamer (although I do have a gaming PC, I play mostly console ports on it) and I agree with a lot of what he says. Sure it's nice having better-looking/performing versions of games, but the way this gen has been for me so far, I could easily just stick with my PC and PS3. I got a Wii U last year and also agree that it has a better library of 'exclusive' games. My PS4 library is almost entirely nothing but port-ups/multiplatform releases.
But on the flip side, having a first year or so of new consoles with mediocre releases or ports is really nothing new and I expect things to get better.
But on the flip side, having a first year or so of new consoles with mediocre releases or ports is really nothing new and I expect things to get better.