I don't think it's a bad console generation, it's just a very conservative one.
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SuperBunnyHop: 8th Gen Console Console Gaming Review
- Thread starter Protagonist Jake
- Start date
I don't think it's a bad console generation, it's just a very conservative one.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
He's reviewing it for what it offers that others don't. He found it wanting.
Phrozenflame500
Member
Yeah he is, his argument is essentially that all of the multi-platform games are better played on a competing system (his gaming PC) and that of the exclusives most of them are lackluster to him personally compared to the many varied and high-quality Wii U exclusives.
I don't understand this attitude, the argument "x is not as good as y" is a valid criticism of x when they're directly competing with one another for the same market space.
I feel like the last minutes of the video are incredibly relevant here - https://youtu.be/36F3rxHRlE4?t=9m18s
He is well aware of the reaction such an opinion can get, but throughout he is clear of his past impressions and how he arrives at this point. I just don't see how anyone can see this as elitist when it stays grounded and even shows praise particularly for the WiiU. I rarely watch his videos and immediately understand that his love of gaming is particularly in gameplay - of which is his major point of contention where he finds little compelling right now.
This is where I stand. a lot of the games I play are pc exclusive, have vastly superior PC versions or PC timed exclusive.
The ps4 needs sufficient console exclusives that can, at least off and on, pull me away from my PC backlog. Ditto for xone. Most interested in Wii u, but girlfriend has one.
I did, and I said it earlier in this thread but I will restate my thoughts: I normally really enjoy his videos but there was such a negative and critical tone throughout the entire video in contrast to his normally insightful points of view that this one was rather depressing.
I'm re watching right now just to be sure I didn't take it the wrong way but I'm getting the same vibe. Just listen to the final sentence he even says in the video.
He seems bitter about having spent the money on PS4. Not to say that he doesn't make valid points but there is a lack of any positivity found in this video, where there is plenty actually be found with the way the systems are going and what we have to play on them.
His video, his thoughts. That's fine. But I'm the viewer and it's fair game for me to dislike what he had to say.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
You do know DS2 was made by a different team and without Miyazaki.
Bloodborne is being made by the same team behind Dark Souls and Demon Souls and Miyazaki is once again Director.
That is exactly what he does. Some of you people seem to be in total denial.
So many jimmies rustled by one man's opinion. It's funny.
I agree with him. From the perspective of an average PC gamer, the Wii U is the only home console of the current generation that is worth buying.
To those of you saying that he doesn't take into account the third party offerings of the three consoles, listen a little more closely. He has a PC for those games. This is about exclusives, and he feels that the PS4 exclusive lineup is lackluster.
This is a bizarre generation.
I agree with him. From the perspective of an average PC gamer, the Wii U is the only home console of the current generation that is worth buying.
To those of you saying that he doesn't take into account the third party offerings of the three consoles, listen a little more closely. He has a PC for those games. This is about exclusives, and he feels that the PS4 exclusive lineup is lackluster.
This is a bizarre generation.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I should've put a question mark at the end of my sentence. I haven't had a chance to watch the review yet.
As a guy who got PS4 day 1, plays pretty much only the PS4, and loves the PS4, I still can't fault anything this video says... it makes me a bit sad really.
PS4 shouldn't be selling... WiiU should be selling.
And there it is...
I hardly game on PC. People I know who game on PC don't own PS4s.
So the reason PS4 is selling so well is:
- The people who buy them (ie: most people buying game consoles today) don't game on PC
- WiiU doesn't satisfy the needs of the mainstream gamer, but PS4 does
DarthWalden
Banned
From the perspective of someone who does all their third party gaming on a PC and prefers that community I can see his disappointment however I don't think that's totally fair to write off the PS4 as a vast majority of people use it to play multiplatform games and sports games and such and not everyone wants to use a PC to play games.
I game on PC, WiiU, PS4 and XB1 and my XB1 gets the most playtime here simply because this is where my freinds play and I've enjoyed the exclusives. I don't care about P's or Framerates and stuff like that.
Since I game on xb1 does that make the PC platform less relevant since I only use it for exclusives and there is none that really interest me right now? I can't even play any of the big sports games on my PC (not that I would want too)
I game on PC, WiiU, PS4 and XB1 and my XB1 gets the most playtime here simply because this is where my freinds play and I've enjoyed the exclusives. I don't care about P's or Framerates and stuff like that.
Since I game on xb1 does that make the PC platform less relevant since I only use it for exclusives and there is none that really interest me right now? I can't even play any of the big sports games on my PC (not that I would want too)
geordiemp
Member
Watched his video, ashamed to have given the PC gamer so why do I console guy the clicks.
What a load of rubbish. Typical American PC gamer attitude....exclusives...and my gaming rig is super cheap...
I am looking to build a gaming PC to compliment Ps4, and a I am looking at £ 900 for a basic mini-ITX config i5 and 970 PC. Not everyone can build cheap PC's like in USA.
Complains about 2 hours to set up a console, I wonder how long it will take me to set up my £ 900 (1200 Euro) PC...and still not convinced on the build I would need to make a console like box for under the TV without it melting...
I am thinking about 2 weeks, and about 2 hours to learn to set up each games settings lol.
And I am only building it for VR and some single player with controller if possible, no way would I play on-line against pixel perfect clickers, modders, FOV changers and everything else you get online in the PC space.
What a load of rubbish. Typical American PC gamer attitude....exclusives...and my gaming rig is super cheap...
I am looking to build a gaming PC to compliment Ps4, and a I am looking at £ 900 for a basic mini-ITX config i5 and 970 PC. Not everyone can build cheap PC's like in USA.
Complains about 2 hours to set up a console, I wonder how long it will take me to set up my £ 900 (1200 Euro) PC...and still not convinced on the build I would need to make a console like box for under the TV without it melting...
I am thinking about 2 weeks, and about 2 hours to learn to set up each games settings lol.
And I am only building it for VR and some single player with controller if possible, no way would I play on-line against pixel perfect clickers, modders, FOV changers and everything else you get online in the PC space.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Why should it when its missing 99% of Japanese and Western third party games....you know the games the majority of gamers like to play. WiiU is unattractive due to its poor library (and other factors as well mind you). You want your console to ideally have all the third party games and great exclusives so that the consoles attracts as many bases as possible.
His argument is about exclusives and you decide to focus yours on something off-topic? I'm not saying price isn't an issue, but that's not part of his argument.
entremet
Member
That's due to the economics. Out of control dev costs make it a necessity.
I'd ask as well how one decides what "should" be selling. Usually, it's some combination of vague wishy washy justification and a clear injection of a person's own biases.
No argument here. It's something I've argued since I joined NeoGAF, frankly. The observation got less notice in 2008, but the train is farther down the tracks now and the costs of increasing development costs are becoming obvious to even casual observers.
geordiemp
Member
He did not even play the big console exclusives that people play other than TLOU, games like Destiny, Infamous, First light, Drive club etc.
It is clear what his motives were if the game you choose to represent why have a PS4 is the order.
Swass
Member
My problems with the video:
-Trying to make the PS4 seem 2 years old by going off its reveal rather than it's launch date
-Comparing the PS4 library to the Wii U which has been on the market over 2 years and the games he spent hundreds of hours on the Wii U are games that came around the 2 year birthday of the Wii U.
-Claims hundreds of hours on Wii U but then says he doesn't have time for Dragon Age which is one of the PS4s best games
-Wii U negatives section seemed crowbarred in to make it look like he was giving both consoles a grilling but his closing comments say something different
-His tone, guy sounds negative and depressed through the whole video
-Trying to make the PS4 seem 2 years old by going off its reveal rather than it's launch date
-Comparing the PS4 library to the Wii U which has been on the market over 2 years and the games he spent hundreds of hours on the Wii U are games that came around the 2 year birthday of the Wii U.
-Claims hundreds of hours on Wii U but then says he doesn't have time for Dragon Age which is one of the PS4s best games
-Wii U negatives section seemed crowbarred in to make it look like he was giving both consoles a grilling but his closing comments say something different
-His tone, guy sounds negative and depressed through the whole video
I agree with you on that.
However, market trends are interesting, and this generation does bring up the interesting question of what the industry consumers value and how that has changed drastically since only the last generation.
DarthWalden
Banned
Price should be part of the argument to make though since he is basically saying Ps4 is crap right now because he can play all the multiplatform better on his PC.
PC's and Ps4s don't cost the same price. In fact performance in PC titles is directly related to the price.
It's right there in the video tho'.
A couple of hundred hours isn't really that much considering the wii u has been out for about 2 years now. Barley 30 minutes every day, if not less.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Which is why I can't possibly see how this will be a short console generation. Development costs are through the roof as it is, which is a big reason why it's taking so long to pump out those new games.
Absolutely. I just think I have a different point of reference than those who are deeply emotionally invested either in a particular console, a particular brand, or even in consoles generally.
I think one lesson the PS4 teaches us is that there is at least a notable portion of gamers who 1) want to play many of the same games that PC gamers play, but 2) don't want to play those games on PC. There is a faction of the gaming world that doesn't care that, say, Witcher 3 also happens to be on PC and looks notably better, because the PC is basically invisible to them. There could be lots of reasons for that; maybe they hate the keyboard and mouse, maybe they grew up playing consoles and are just accustomed to them, maybe they just have lots of friends who already game on Playstation/Xbox -- whatever the reason, I think this generation more than those which proceeded it has made it clear that some people would just rather play on consoles, even though they are playing mostly the same games that are also available on PC.
I think that's a valuable observation. You can glean insights from how the market is behaving, as long as you aren't beating your head against the wall and insisting that things should be different because Microsoft is totally awesome and Halo is the best and the Playstation doesn't deserve to sell well or what have you.
Phrozenflame500
Member
He mentioned Destiny (he didn't like it), Driveclub was pretty much forgot about post-release, and First Light is DLC (albeit standalone). None of them got particularly stellar reviews either.
And don't pretend that it's unreasonable to include The Order as a PS4 exclusive, it's the most recently released one and it had tons and tons of press.
entremet
Member
Just look at this week. Nintendo moving to mobile, DriveClub going F2P, KojiPro being phased out of Konami.
But it seems many hardcore enthusiasts have their heads in the sand about these changing times.
It's not a sustainable business just chasing better and better graphics and fidelity, all the while games remain the same price they did decades ago.
He did play Destiny, what are you talking about? As for the other games, you're right he doesn't mention them, but they aren't as big as TLOU or Destiny.
What's confusing about him choosing a game that was incredibly hyped up and was basically a game that even Sony chose to represent the console on more than a few occasions?
It's clear that you are taking his "motives" on a more political or personal level, but to me I think he's just sharing his opinion from his perspective.
Swass
Member
The way I can see this being a short console generation is if the PS5 uses the same architecture but beefs up the specs meaning it's completely backward compatible to the PS4 and development remains nearly identical.
Nintendo is incompetent at everything related to third party relations and the internet (including account systems). The Wii U isn't selling, nor should it until Nintendo acknowledges and addresses their many failings. If the PS4 didn't have stellar third party support, it would be selling worse than the Wii U given its terrible exclusives so far. Exclusives are obviously important to a degree, but having the best third party support is more important since they make up the bulk of the release list in every year.
Good point, the PS4 does indeed have the Japanese game support that I always want.
Also, the Indie support is pretty important these days. Axiom Verge in a couple weeks could be my GOTY, and it looks like a goddam
GLORIOUS
Pretty much what the rest of that post covers.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Can't agree more.
Remember people just because its 2015 it does not mean PS4 is 2 years old. Its been on the market for 1 year and 4 months.
Swass
Member
Except the games he's claiming hundreds of hours on on the Wii U all came out around the same time so console age should have nothing to do with it.
omgwtfbentime
Member
Eh, I disagree with a lot of his analysis. As far as consoles go, PS4 has pretty much earned the title of being the best way to play the big third-party titles. For about 80% of gamers, that's what they want a new system to do. The exclusives are just icing on the cake.
He brings up PC, which I also understand, but I think PC is still a pretty niche thing. Yes its cheaper now, but staying up to date on the latest AAA games requires $200+ every few years and that's not even factoring in how many games still get really shoddy PC ports (Ubi Soft, for example?). Don't get me wrong, I have a decent gaming laptop and I love it for playing games built specifically for PC, but if a game was designed for consoles first I'd still much rather play it on console.
His whole point about download and setup time taking forever was also kind of silly, because that same exact problem happens even more on PC. Steam constantly has updates, other games require weird launcher updates, directX updates, and driver updates are always a problem when getting a brand new PC game. Not to mention PC gaming is nearly 100% digital distribution at this point... so his whole "digital distribution is a hassle!" point was pretty worthless.
I will agree with him on the Wii U though. Great console despite its weird technical shortcomings that always delivers on great gameplay. Wish more people would by the thing.
He brings up PC, which I also understand, but I think PC is still a pretty niche thing. Yes its cheaper now, but staying up to date on the latest AAA games requires $200+ every few years and that's not even factoring in how many games still get really shoddy PC ports (Ubi Soft, for example?). Don't get me wrong, I have a decent gaming laptop and I love it for playing games built specifically for PC, but if a game was designed for consoles first I'd still much rather play it on console.
His whole point about download and setup time taking forever was also kind of silly, because that same exact problem happens even more on PC. Steam constantly has updates, other games require weird launcher updates, directX updates, and driver updates are always a problem when getting a brand new PC game. Not to mention PC gaming is nearly 100% digital distribution at this point... so his whole "digital distribution is a hassle!" point was pretty worthless.
I will agree with him on the Wii U though. Great console despite its weird technical shortcomings that always delivers on great gameplay. Wish more people would by the thing.
DrROBschiz
Member
Its a shame people keep leveraging PC against the PS4
That only applies to others in the same position of investment on the PC side
Otherwise PS4 has been more than fulfilling for anyone who is fully invested on that system alone
That only applies to others in the same position of investment on the PC side
Otherwise PS4 has been more than fulfilling for anyone who is fully invested on that system alone
zephervack
Member
PS4 games with confirmed release dates releasing between Bloodborne and Phantom Pain:
Probably doesn't include a whole bunch of indie games, either, since the gap between release date and release is usually much, much tighter.
As someone that owns a PS4 and PC, it seems like my PS4 will gather dust after bloodborne until the arrival of Uncharted, its starting to get really hard to justify purchasing these consoles for someone with a half descent PC.
DarthWalden
Banned
Having just gone through the process of redeeming a TLOU code I was able to play the game in about 10 minutes to my surprise (coming from xb1). I don't know where he got 4 hours from.
MasterMongoose
Member
Again, I don't know what people were playing on 360 last time around if they're saying it was so great in its first year. For me and I would assume many others, I think Gears and Oblivion were the closest to standout titles. I'm sure between either "Next gen" system you can find two games you enjoy a lot.
And that's counting Oblivion as a PC game too, just like I would count Dragon Age: Inquisition or Far Cry 4 favorably for the PS4/XB1.
Now, if you're talking PS3 which came out a year late, then yes, it had a sexy first year since 2007 was one of the best in the whole generation. But that's a little unfair, because a lot of titles were also 360 as leading platform and those games landed in the console's second year. They were just ported to PS3.
All of this is also completely ignoring the awesome indie games on PS4/XB1 when that platform was in its infancy in 2006.
And that's counting Oblivion as a PC game too, just like I would count Dragon Age: Inquisition or Far Cry 4 favorably for the PS4/XB1.
Now, if you're talking PS3 which came out a year late, then yes, it had a sexy first year since 2007 was one of the best in the whole generation. But that's a little unfair, because a lot of titles were also 360 as leading platform and those games landed in the console's second year. They were just ported to PS3.
All of this is also completely ignoring the awesome indie games on PS4/XB1 when that platform was in its infancy in 2006.
Sure, but those wii U games are more of the pick up and play type, so the hours adds up.
Meanwhile an RPG more often than not requires that you focus solely on it, at least in my experience. And that can be hard to find time for.
whyreggielie
Member
Yea, I bought my PS4 this month and literally the day of getting it all I could think was "What am I supposed to do with this thing until Bloodborne comes out?". The Wii U just has a much better library than this, especially for those of us who mostly game on PC. But I know eventually when FFXV and KH3 come out then my purchase will be validated. It's just gonna be such a long time from now, I hope I can enjoy Bloodborne as much as I do DS 2 this way I can be kept busy until Splatoon is released.
DrROBschiz
Member
This is becoming an extremely common trend here
You guys need to understand that people buy consoles as THE system to play games on
Im not sure what to tell PC players who want to play console exclusives except to wait until you can snag em for cheap
Otherwise its getting really irritating to see so much inaccurate information spouted about becuase its being filtered through the lens of a PC player
I bolded his argument.
Okay, where is the price factor in his argument?
The reason I striked "better" is because it's irrelevant to the point he's trying to make. Sure, it's better, but that's not the point.
His argument isn't about affordability. Why should he bother with a PS4 if his PC has the same offerings and the PS4 exclusives are, in his opinion, not worth it (Bloodborne aside)?
Should he bother with the PS4 because it is cheaper? Because it has better games?
He uses multiple points to back his opinion, such as backwards compatibility, forwards compatibility, libraries, and fun-factor--not price. Why are you clamoring about price when that's not even his argument?
I understand that price plays a big role in determining one's preferred platform, but this is about this guy's opinion, and price does not seem to be a factor to him. You are only moving the argument elsewhere.
geordiemp
Member
Correct. Have you played COD online on console, its great, its a level playing field.
Its not on PC, you can mod or change everything, FPS will optimise your client side fire rate, you can fiddle with FOV, maybe even gun stats....Then add a gaming mouse and a 2 ms monitor....
Console gamers want to play on PC with controllers against others with same set up and specs with no mods in a living room.
I want to build a gaming PC, its going to be > £ 900. I only want it for VR and the odd game Ps4 struggles with.
Would not consider playing online on PC.
It's worth nothing that there used to be more justification to own consoles as a PC gamer. There were far more exclusives in the past.
Now, however, two things have happened: 1) There are fewer games releasing on consoles in general, and 2) Of those that do release on consoles, a significantly greater portion of them are also on PC now.
There's no question that most of the contraction that consoles are experiencing are a consequence of casual gamers migrating to mobile platforms; that much is clear. I think at least some, however, are PC gamers who can no longer justify dipping in the console pool because the list of compelling exclusive content has dwindled so significantly.
DrROBschiz
Member
Its just the PC Vs Console debate all over again
This is already well tread ground guys
You know what you are getting. You guys aren't dumb... you are just frustrated that console exclusives exist
Thats the business folks. Take all that money you save on PC and use it to play Bloodborne and Uncharted if its necessary
As others have pointed out though there are lots of pros and cons to investing fully in either platform.
This is already well tread ground guys
You know what you are getting. You guys aren't dumb... you are just frustrated that console exclusives exist
Thats the business folks. Take all that money you save on PC and use it to play Bloodborne and Uncharted if its necessary
As others have pointed out though there are lots of pros and cons to investing fully in either platform.
What we are seeing is the opposite here. PC gamers (or at least the person in the video, and others in this thread) are suggesting the consoles need more exclusive content, not less. Most PC gamers in the past also gamed on consoles; that's becoming increasingly less true as there is less and less exclusive content that justifies investing in a second/third/whatever platform.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
How did it get so twisted in here? That isn't the argument at all.