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[Alessandro]

I usually don't play online, I don't buy used and I don't live in a country where Gamestop is a huge player in units sold (I guess): someone could give me a summary of why Online passes are bad?

(Just asking for info, not trying to be a smartass).

 

[Neuromancer]

Sterling and I are going back and forth a little on this article on Twitter. I don't like the practice but I'm not shocked, still day one purchase for me.

Can you post the conversation? I can't access Twitter from this machine.

 

[mclem]

Amazon gives me 10-20 dollars store credit for pre-ordering a game

They don't do that in Europe!

Besides, that's Amazon, not the publisher (unless it's a publisher-sanctioned rebate? Not sure)

 

[alr1ght]

Still don't understand why people have a problem with online passes.

Are you paying more for the new item at retail? No.

Are you forced to redeem the packed in code? No.

So, you can resell at a value of your choosing, you can rebuy (at an additional discount if you're happy with a purely offline experience) and enable the online material via a separate purchase, yet people are still complaining.

Consider that if resellers simply factored in the full cash redemption face-value of the voucher at both the rebuy and resell end, it would be transparent to the consumer. And lets be brutally honest, they have plenty of margin to do that - they just choose not to.

And what if I want to actually play the whole game that I paid for? I used to get the whole game and could sell it later if I wanted for maximum cash back.

What if I want to go to a friend's house and play online? Lol, fork over $10 friend!

It's annoying and there is zero benefit for consumers.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Are we going to have a thread everytime a game has an online pass? It's here to stay. Bend over and move on.

Fixed.

 

[Swig_]

I'm not familiar with online pass.. Is it a monthly fee? Microtransactions for "extras" in the game?

Can my gf and I play 2 player on the same ps3?

 

[mclem]

And what if I want to actually play the whole game that I paid for? I used to get the whole game and could sell it later if I wanted for maximum cash back.

You *do* get the whole game that you paid for. It's just missing one piece of DLC, that people who purchase new happen to get for free. Lucky them!

What if I want to go to a friend's house and play online? Lol, fork over $10 friend!

Wouldn't logging into your account give you the benefits of the pass? Genuinely not sure, here.

It's annoying and there is zero benefit for consumers.

I get more for purchasing new. That's not zero benefit.

 

[alr1ght]

You *do* get the whole game that you paid for. It's just missing one piece of DLC, that people who purchase new happen to get for free. Lucky them!

No, I do not get the same thing if I buy it new. Why? see my previous post.

 

[clemenx]

What baffles me the most is how the notion that used market is bad for an industry has been accepted. Amazing how some people take whatever their loved game developers say as word from god.

 

[MrPliskin]

BB and Amazon sell used games too.

Right, but both BB and Amazon have a significantly smaller stake in used sales when compared to GameStop. BB and Amazon have other sources of revenue from the other products they sell. GameStop, on the other hand, is *only* in business because of used games.

The biggest reason they've remained profitable this year is because of severe cutbacks in hourly shifts for employee's, etc. GameStop knows that their time is trying near, and as a result has invested into other revenue streams like Kongregate, etc.

What baffles me the most is how the notion that used market is bad for an industry has been accepted. Amazing how some people take whatever their loved game developers say as word from god.

It's both good and bad. It's not just clear cut. A combination of factors make it a slippery slope on both sides. I think as enthusiasts, we on GAF should look beyond being just a consumer, at times. There are jobs at stake, and while it is survival of the fittest, sometimes the used industry can have a substantial impact on smaller titles. Unfortunately, Publishers dig themselves into these holes when they refuse to concede on pricing out of the gate.

On the other side of the coin, the used market is an integral piece of new sales. Though I think the biggest cause is high prices. If prices were to be substantially lower, say, $39.99 for a new game, then the used market wouldn't be so big. As it sits, most people will trade in a release from the last month or two to buy a new game, thus netting them ten to twenty bucks, and they pay the rest cash. I think this is evidence enough to support the idea that prices are too high, and if Publishers really want to begin to nip the used market in the butt, then lower prices is the way to go, not CD Key's, Online Passes, etc.

IMO

 

[AndyD]

I'm not familiar with online pass.. Is it a monthly fee? Microtransactions for "extras" in the game?

Can my gf and I play 2 player on the same ps3?

Online pass is a one time fee for using the online features (online play, leaderboards...). It does not have anything to do with extra content, simply online access. Extra content will be sold but it is not included in the online pass fee.

The game new comes with one online pass code. So its built into the price for a new game. However, if you buy it used, you will have to buy the code from EA to access online.

This game does not have local multiplayer (split screen) so you will have to take turns against each other. The devs have said they are considering split screen for a sequel or as a patch or paid DLC later.

 

[Clear]

And what if I want to actually play the whole game that I paid for? I used to get the whole game and could sell it later if I wanted for maximum cash back.

You bought the game, and an online code in a single package. Whether you chose to redeem the code is up to you, and noone else. Deal with it.

Based on your argument, the more paid DLC is made available for a title, the worse value it is because all digital downloads are non-returnable/non-transferable. Which is stupid.

 

[ShapeGSX]

What dumb shit post. Do you not have friends that you might play with at their house one day? Or fall into one of the other million categories that an online pass would screw you over?

As for the lack of local split screen, again, it is probably due to hardware limitations of the consoles. The environments are most likely streamed off the DVD. Streaming two different locations simultaneously just isn't feasible for most games these days. There's too much data involved and not enough bandwidth.

 

[mclem]

No, I do not get the same thing if I buy it new. Why? see my previous post.

You're getting $50 worth of game for $40, but you're complaining that if you sell it, you'll only get $40?

Edit: Strictly speaking, "A price equivalent to a game that costs $40". Since you wouldn't actually get the full cost back.

 

[goober]

New at this, is an online pass extra + the base price of the game? Or is it included in the original price?

 

[alr1ght]

You're getting $50 worth of game for $40, but you're complaining that if you sell it, you'll only get $40?

NO. I do not buy used games. My points are regarding how new purchasers get fucked.

 

[LiK]

New at this, is an online pass extra + the base price of the game? Or is it included in the original price?

Included in original price. EA wants people to buy new.

 

[snap0212]

I get more for purchasing new. That's not zero benefit.

More compared to what? Buying used? Sure. Buying new prior to the introduction of online passes? Absolutely not.

Why would you believe that?

I have to admit one thing, though. Online passes have saved me a lot of money. I don't buy any games with them, I just rent them and finish them within a few days. I get a game from Saturday to Monday for 3€. Since I don't/can't play multiplayer, I don't get hooked and don't spend any money on DLC or stuff like that.

 

[CypherSignal]

New at this, is an online pass extra + the base price of the game? Or is it included in the original price?

Online passes come bundled with all new copies of the game, and is included in the price. The only case in which this will be a problem, financially, is if you're buying the game used.

 

[mclem]

NO. I do not buy used games. My points are regarding how new purchasers get fucked.

I picked numbers that were misleading, sorry. I made the mistake of using UK prices but sticking dollars on them. Let me try again:

You're getting $70 worth of product for $60, but you're complaining that if you sell it on, you'll get the sale price you would for a product worth $60?

 

[5amshift]

Said it in another thread, but this will be industry standard until GameStop goes under.

And I have no problem with this.
I love buying games new.

 

[AndyD]

You bought the game, and an online code in a single package. Whether you chose to redeem the code is up to you, and noone else. Deal with it.

Based on your argument, the more paid DLC is made available for a title, the worse value it is because all digital downloads are non-returnable/non-transferable. Which is stupid.

No I think he is saying he paid $60 for it new and he should get $60 worth of content no matter what machine he plays it on.

And I think you do, because you can simply use your ea log in at your friend's house for the game. Its all tied to ea's servers, and as long as you log in to your ea account (which is required for online access anyway) you will have access to all your content you paid for.

Unless the pass is hardware machine restricted and not ea account restricted, which I don't think is the case.

 

[inky]

What baffles me the most is how the notion that used market is bad for an industry has been accepted. Amazing how some people take whatever their loved game developers say as word from god.

Not only that but some people actually think that by buying new they are getting more game, as in developers are producing more content than planned, and giving it to them for free as a reward. Hilarious.

 

[Firefox]

Now it can stay on your shelf

FOREVER!

Good luck selling it used.

 

[Papercuts]

You bought the game, and an online code in a single package. Whether you chose to redeem the code is up to you, and noone else. Deal with it.

Based on your argument, the more paid DLC is made available for a title, the worse value it is because all digital downloads are non-returnable/non-transferable. Which is stupid.

Paid DLC is stuff made over time that we would never even have in the first place in past gens. Online Codes are them ripping content we used to have with the original package if you choose to not redeem. You aren't "losing" value if you sell the game there's paid DLC for, but you do if you redeem the online code, as the buyer needs to spend an additional $10 to get the full game.

I'm dealing with it by not buying any games that do this, and I'll continue to do so.

 

[AndyD]

I picked numbers that were misleading, sorry. I made the mistake of using UK prices but sticking dollars on them. Let me try again:

You're getting $70 worth of product for $60, but you're complaining that if you sell it on, you'll get the sale price you would for a product worth $60?

You are not getting $70 worth of product. You are getting $60 worth. But using the code reduces the value so you can no longer claim you are re-selling $60 worth of value, but $50.

You used up the $10 value of the pass by redeeming it and taking advantage of the benefits it offers. Much like using a CD key uses up all the value of a game.

Something that would increase value would be added DLC such as preorder bonuses like new boards and characters, or PS3's entire Mt. Fuji in the US. Then you can say the PS3 value is X360 value + cost of Mt. Fuji as DLC if and when it will be available. Or I bought this game new from Amazon and for $60 dollars I got the value of the game + the cost of whatever DLC comes as pre-order content.

Or look at Battlefield's VIP for early buyers. You get online access and free $15 DLC a couple of months after release. Then the value is higher because of the DLC.

 

[alr1ght]

I picked numbers that were misleading, sorry. I made the mistake of using UK prices but sticking dollars on them. Let me try again:

You're getting $70 worth of product for $60, but you're complaining that if you sell it on, you'll get the sale price you would for a product worth $60?

No, I'm buying a $60 game that drops in value an additional $10 as soon as I put the code in. So if the game did not have a pass system, I could probably sell the game for $50 a few weeks later. If the game had a pass system, I would get $40.

They are effectively reducing the amount I could sell the game for should I want to sell it.


For example:
I bought Killzone 3 (which does not have a pass system) new for $60 from amazon.
I realized it was trash and sold it for $50 a month later
Effectively it cost me $10

If the game had a pass system, I would have received $40.

 

[Forsaken82]

Dude, this is NeoGAF. There's a 10 page thread because someone from Naughty Dog spoke about shitty stories in VideoGames and how they want to change that. 1000 replies, most of them "angry" (for some reason?).

So yes, most of the spoon fed gamers here complain about whatever they can get their grubby hands on. Though in this case, it's moderately justified.

You don't have to "Dude, this is NeoGAF" me. I am well aware of this boards reputation, doesn't mean I see this "moderate justification". Hate on the online pass, sure, hate on the minimal time required to entered the code of a game you already purchased? Not seeing it.

It all brings me back to days when I entered passcodes for cheats. Only now I am getting additional core content

 

[Facism]

suddenly an online pass is "getting more for purchasing new."

No wonder they can get away with it.

 

[MrPliskin]

You don't have to "Dude, this is NeoGAF" me. I am well aware of this boards reputation, doesn't mean I see this "moderate justification". Hate on the online pass, sure, hate on the minimal time required to entered the code of a game you already purchased? Not seeing it.

Sorry, I spoke poorly. I got on a tangent. I wasn't trying to suggest complaining about the 30 second process was justified (it isn't). I meant to get across the complaining about the existence of an online pass is justified. My apologies

 

[Cels]

shocking news indeed

 

[StealthGoblin]

Do we really need a thread for every game that has an online pass now? Its becoming the norm.

 

[LowParry]

Do we really need a thread for every game that has an online pass now? Its becoming the norm.

Yep. GAF needs reasons to bitch about something. EA is always the go to.

 

[alr1ght]

Do we really need a thread for every game that has an online pass now? Its becoming the norm.

that's why it needs a thread

 

[SmokyDave]

Yep. GAF needs reasons to bitch about something. EA is always the go to.

1; GAF isn't a singular entity with a consensus opinion.

2; Bitching about people being unhappy at anti-consumer practices makes you look like a tool.

 

[mclem]

More compared to what? Buying used? Sure. Buying new prior to the introduction of online passes? Absolutely not.

Why would you believe that?

Because you can't compare against hypothetical nonexistent games?

Because I believe that publishers are allowed to set the price they wish for the amount of content they wish.

Because I believe that consumers, in turn, are allowed to look at the price the publisher is asking for the amount of content they're offering and decide if that is a fair price for the content that is offered, and make the purchase based on that decision.

Because I believe that consumers are not entitled to determine the amount of content they *should* be getting, and should only base a purchase decision on what is on the table.

If Kingdoms of Amalur isn't worth the new asking price for six factions? Fine. Don't buy it; that's entirely your choice.

If Kingdoms of Amalur isn't worth the used asking price for just five factions? Fine. Don't buy it. But don't wring your hands over "but there could have been six", because there isn't. That is not on the table, and they're under no obligation to offer it to you. If they want to sell it separately, that's their prerogative, and you can make a separate purchase decision based on *that* as and when it becomes available.

 

[FlashFlooder]

Now it can stay on your shelf

FOREVER!

Good luck selling it used.

Who in their right mind sells an SSX game? (I've still got SSX 1-3 sitting on my shelf, and no system to play them on

 

[Clear]

Online codes typically represent 10-15% of the cost of the retail package as new. The question is, does the "locked off" content represent more or less as a percentile value of the games entertainment value to you?

Factor that in when making your purchasing decisions.

 

[Swig_]

Online pass is a one time fee for using the online features (online play, leaderboards...). It does not have anything to do with extra content, simply online access. Extra content will be sold but it is not included in the online pass fee.

The game new comes with one online pass code. So its built into the price for a new game. However, if you buy it used, you will have to buy the code from EA to access online.

This game does not have local multiplayer (split screen) so you will have to take turns against each other. The devs have said they are considering split screen for a sequel or as a patch or paid DLC later.

Wow.. that really sucks. I was planning on getting it so my gf and i could play together. Not sure if I'll even buy this now.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

The more i read gaf the more i am convinced tha some gamers are the best consumers for greedy corporations. SMFH. No one should be defending these anti consumer crap. Next gen we are getting more screwed. This is only the beginning.

 

[mclem]

Not only that but some people actually think that by buying new they are getting more game, as in developers are producing more content than planned, and giving it to them for free as a reward. Hilarious.

I do like it when we talk about relative amounts when there's no actual set-in-stone benchmark as to where the "right" amount is.

 

[LowParry]

Online codes typically represent 10-15% of the cost of the retail package as new. The question is, does the "locked off" content represent more or less as a percentile value of the games entertainment value to you?

Factor that in when making your purchasing decisions.

In SSX's case, the online pass is just that. To play online and gain access to leaderboards (unless I'm missing something).

Now, if the standard use of "online passes" turn into what Batman: AC turned into with the Catwoman stuff, I'd be pissed off about that. Did GAF go apeshit insane with the Catwoman code?

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah, the Catwoman DLC was a huge deal because it locked out people without broadband internet connections. And because a lot of the codes didn't even work.

Unless you buy from EA directly, at no point are you their customer. You're Walmart's, Target's, or Gamestop's customer.

Oh right. You're the guy who thinks publishers have no interest and no stake in how their games sell in stores.

 

[LiK]

In SSX's case, the online pass is just that. To play online and gain access to leaderboards (unless I'm missing something).

Now, if the standard use of "online passes" turn into what Batman: AC turned into with the Catwoman stuff, I'd be pissed off about that. Did GAF go apeshit insane with the Catwoman code?

We don't actually know what it'll restrict. The online portions are just a given.

And yea, the Catwoman DLC thread was full of rage.

 

[mclem]

You are not getting $70 worth of product. You are getting $60 worth. But using the code reduces the value so you can no longer claim you are re-selling $60 worth of value, but $50.

And how is the bolded determined? Your argument that the stuff you buy in a new copy is worth $60 is *just as valid* as my argument that it's worth $70. It's all a matter of perception. Your perception makes it look like you're being ripped off; mine makes it look like I'm getting a good deal. Neither of us is strictly correct.

The publisher - in my example - firmly believes that the content of the new copy is worth $70. They expect to recoup the losses in that in used sales. Is that so bad?

Or look at Battlefield's VIP for early buyers. You get online access and free $15 DLC a couple of months after release. Then the value is higher because of the DLC.

The *only* difference between this and the online passes cited in this thread is the fact that the DLC is produced after release.

 

[Bizazedo]

The more i read gaf the more i am convinced tha some gamers are the best consumers for greedy corporations. SMFH. No one should be defending these anti consumer crap. Next gen we are getting more screwed. This is only the beginning.

I'd agree with you, maybe, but every time I go into Gamestop it feels like they actively try to dissuade me from buying new.

My favorite was "if you buy used, you can return it. If you buy new, no returns after it's opened, Even if it's not working".

So, yeah.

That and the sense of entitlement of some people. They can price it as they want. If people don't buy, they'll stop.

They're allowed to do this.

 

[Lothars]

I won't be buying SSX at launch but I don't have an issue with online passes.

 

[Orayn]

The *only* difference between this and the online passes cited in this thread is the fact that the DLC is produced after release.

I have a degree in GAFology, and extensive study of the gaming side suggests that this is impossible. All content that could hypothetically exist for a game, including expansion packs, was created before that game's release. If any of this content is revealed at a later date, it must have been maliciously cut from the original release to screw over the consumer in some way.

 

[Kusagari]

How is this even thread worthy?

The only way this would be surprising is if the game didn't have an online pass.

 

[Amagon]

Online Pass, whatever. I'm buying it new so I'm not crying about it. And the whole point of online passes has unphased me since I come from the PC Master Race background where we dealt with CD Keys all the time. Though, I don't like the idea if/when EA decides to close a server after a couple years.