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[BruiserBear]

Do we really need a thread for every game that has an online pass now? Its becoming the norm.

that's why it needs a thread

But if we're being honest with ourselves, we know it's not going away. It's already here, and it's only growing bigger. With the next consoles it will grow even more common.


It would be a different story if one of the console makers was not allowing it. Then people would truly have a choice, and could organize to push in that direction, but for now it's just the way it's going to be.

 

[LowParry]

How is this even thread worthy?

The only way this would be surprising is if the game didn't have an online pass.

Just wait for the day when fighting games start getting these online passes. Oh man. GAF would explode. Capcom being the first.

 

[Curufinwe]

I have a degree in GAFology, and extensive study of the gaming side suggests that this is impossible. All content that could hypothetically exist for a game, including expansion packs, was created before that game's release. If any of this content is revealed at a later date, it must have been maliciously cut from the original release to screw over the consumer in some way.

Not all, but some content certainly was produced as part of the main game and then hacked out. The Catwoman DLC in Arkham City is a prime example of that.

 

[Dabanton]

It's an EA game an online pass is expected.

 

[Papercuts]

Just wait for the day when fighting games start getting these online passes. Oh man. GAF would explode. Capcom being the first.

Mortal Kombat did. I would be more okay with online passes if it meant the online was going to be better, but the online in that was FUCKING HORRENDOUS. Putting it behind a potential paywall is insulting.

 

[Dave Long]

The more i read gaf the more i am convinced tha some gamers are the best consumers for greedy corporations. SMFH. No one should be defending these anti consumer crap. Next gen we are getting more screwed. This is only the beginning.

They're being educated by these companies that it's ok to have your rights taken away.

As long as folks keep suckling at the teat of videogame developers and keep believing that they're somehow making sure they stay in business by paying full price, it's only going to get worse.

 

[LiK]

Mortal Kombat did. I would be more okay with online passes if it meant the online was going to be better, but the online in that was FUCKING HORRENDOUS.

they fixed it 3 months after release

 

[mclem]

They're being educated by these companies that it's ok to have your rights taken away.

I can't think of any right that's actually being taken *away* by this. There's the fact that we can't resell downloadable content, but that's not really ever been *here* to be taken away in the first place.

 

[Orayn]

Not all, but some content certainly was produced as part of the main game and then hacked out. The Catwoman DLC in Arkham City is a prime example of that.

Yeah, I realize. My post was intended to mock the attitude that DLC is never produced after a game comes out, when there are actually a number of possible scenarios.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I fully support online passes and will by 2 copies of every game w/ an online pass I want just to counter anyone who boycotts it.

 

[thePsyKo1]

An online pass is not even remotely the same thing as a fucking cd key dude. Are people that ignorant around here?

If you buy a steamworks or GFWL game at retail the key will be locked to your account much in the same way as these online passes do.

 

[snap0212]

[...walloftext...]

Lots of words but you didn't answer my question. You replied that you, the customer, get(s) more for purchasing new. You said that customers benefit from online passes. How?

 

[Derrick01]

I'm surprised at how unaware or uncaring the general public seems to be about online passes. The last 3 used games that I got from Gamestop that had online passes, they all worked for me. So the 1 (or more) people who had the game before me either didn't give a shit about online or didn't know it had a pass.

Granted Resistance 3's pass was a tiny code on the back of the manual, easy to miss I suppose. I didn't see it at first either. But I was still pretty surprised to find out they all worked.

 

[mclem]

Yeah, I realize. My post was intended to mock the attitude that DLC is never produced after a game comes out, when there are actually a number of possible scenarios.

Given that some games I worked on got stuck in development hell when trying to get past certification, I'm curious what people think is 'fair' in this situation:

A game is near completion. They are planning a DLC pack two months after release.
The artists move on to working on the DLC pack, while the coders fix bugs.
The game fails certification multiple times; it misses the intended release date. The DLC pack is completed. The disc has not yet gone to master.
The game passes certification. Should the DLC pack be included for free? Should it be placed on the disc to unlock with a small access key? Should it be released as 0-day DLC? Or should it be left on the shelf for two months and *then* released?

 

[whatevermort]

Serious question: why do console owners get uppity about this when it's the PC way of life?

 

[Orayn]

Online passes are significantly more forgiving than CD keys because they cost quite a bit less than the whole game. On PC, you typically have no option but to re-buy the game.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'm surprised at how unaware or uncaring the general public seems to be about online passes. The last 3 used games that I got from Gamestop that had online passes, they all worked for me. So the 1 (or more) people who had the game before me either didn't give a shit about online or didn't know it had a pass.

Granted Resistance 3's pass was a tiny code on the back of the manual, easy to miss I suppose. I didn't see it at first either. But I was still pretty surprised to find out they all worked.

That's interesting. I guess the previous owners just ran thru the single player content and then traded it in.

 

[CouchMaster]

So wait, does it block you from just from playing online or the entire network ability like friend's ghosts and stuff?

 

[Orayn]

Given that some games I worked on got stuck in development hell when trying to get past certification, I'm curious what people think is 'fair' in this situation:

A game is near completion. They are planning a DLC pack two months after release.
The artists move on to working on the DLC pack, while the coders fix bugs.
The game fails certification multiple times; it misses the intended release date. The DLC pack is completed. The disc has not yet gone to master.
The game passes certification.

Sounds like a common enough scenario.

Should the DLC pack be included for free?

This is the nicest option because it involves giving free stuff to everyone. It's money down the drain if the game doesn't do well, but it will endear some people.

Should it be placed on the disc to unlock with a small access key?

Next nicest option. It leaves out people who buy the game used, but still gives lots of customers something that was originally planned to be a separate purchase. Allows developers make money off of used purchases if it's done like an online pass.

Should it be released as 0-day DLC?

This means charging for the content as originally intended, but might give customers the impression that the content was cut from the main game. Could make money from new and used buyers alike, right from the beginning.

Or should it be left on the shelf for two months and *then* released?

Again, it's charging for extra content that the devs meant to charge for. The delay seems pointless, but avoids the pitfalls of the previous option.

 

[Neuromancer]

So wait, does it block you from just from playing online or the entire network ability like friend's ghosts and stuff?

No details yet but I imagine both online play and RiderNET (ghosts and scores) will be blocked, that's all EA server stuff.

 

[CloakedPuppet]

They're being educated by these companies that it's ok to have your rights taken away.

As long as folks keep suckling at the teat of videogame developers and keep believing that they're somehow making sure they stay in business by paying full price, it's only going to get worse.

Your RIGHTS? A....hahhahahhahahhahahahahaha! Whew...spare me.

Name one consumer product that is identical to new when purchased used? Even a new car loses a notable chunk of it's value as soon as you drive it off the lot. You don't go into buying anything used and claiming that it's loss of value or the fact that you have to put money into into having it brought back new-er condition as an afront to your consumer rights. Talk about delusional!

 

[mxgt]

They're being educated by these companies that it's ok to have your rights taken away.

As long as folks keep suckling at the teat of videogame developers and keep believing that they're somehow making sure they stay in business by paying full price, it's only going to get worse.

Welcome to the world of PC gamers, except you still don't have it as bad.

It's really not a big deal, and what rights are being taken away exactly?

 

[Orayn]

Your RIGHTS? A....hahhahahhahahhahahahahaha! Whew...spare me.

Name one consumer product that is identical to new when purchased used? Even a new car loses a notable chunk of it's value as soon as you drive it off the lot. You don't go into buying anything used and claiming that it's loss of value or the fact that you have to put money into into having it brought back new-er condition as an afront to your consumer rights. Talk about delusional!

People who get hung up on rights should exercise their right not to buy games from publishers whose practices they dislike.

 

[Risible]

Congrats, publishers! Your shenanigans have converted me from a "Day One" type of consumer to a "Wait Until It Hits $30" or less type of consumer. Good job!

 

[excaliburps]

Speaking of Online Passes, I just did an article about it for one of the sites I contribute to.

http://www.multiplayergames.com/2012/01/30/why-i-dont-have-a-problem-with-online-passes/

Now, before you all wax fanatical and put me on a stake, I'm not 100 percent all for it, but I do understand where publishers are coming from and why it's kinda "needed" nowadays.

I'm doing a second part but this time for that Amalur crap...now that's not cool.

But I guess we should get used to it. Online passes are here to stay...unless something drastic happens.

 

[fernoca]

That's interesting. I guess the previous owners just ran thru the single player content and then traded it in.

Most used copies in Gamestop are like that, from what I've noticed. And the ones that end with used codes are in many cases because someone photographed said code and used it (seen people around taking pictures of "the box" and whoops the game's open let me take a picture of the inside).

Another thing is that, well aside Sony's games; most of the games that use online passes; offer trials. So someone could jump into an online game see if he/she likes it or not in 2 days and then sell said game. In addition to how WB arranged with Gamestop, so that used-buyers got online passes for Mortal Kombat and Catwoman-codes for Arkham City.

Plus add to that, the people that in the end just don't care. Don't play online, don't care about getting some extra weapons/skins or cars, don't care about playing like 5 missions with Catwoman. They just play the game, finish it in less than a week and since Gamestop most of the time does deals with recent games, they end getting over $35 for that same game..no matter if they used the online pass or not.

They (probably) will care when they put a game and are welcomed with a "insert code to begin the game" message, though.

 

[Dark Octave]

I'm surprised at how unaware or uncaring the general public seems to be about online passes. The last 3 used games that I got from Gamestop that had online passes, they all worked for me. So the 1 (or more) people who had the game before me either didn't give a shit about online or didn't know it had a pass.

Granted Resistance 3's pass was a tiny code on the back of the manual, easy to miss I suppose. I didn't see it at first either. But I was still pretty surprised to find out they all worked.

I can't remember ever putting an online pass code in. If Gears 3 had one, maybe for that but I know Mortal Kombat and Uncharted 3 are still fresh. I just don't think it's as big a deal as people cry here about.

If it is to you, buy the game new and give the company who made your current favorite game their due payment for making your life a little brighter. If you do buy used, why should they support someone who obviously isn't a customer of theirs?

 

[snap0212]

Your RIGHTS? A....hahhahahhahahhahahahahaha! Whew...spare me.

Name one consumer product that is identical to new when purchased used?

CDs, DVDs, BluRays or Books, for example. Unless they're destroyed you can use them in the same way the first customer used them.

 

[demosthenes]

Gotta "add value" to that online pass. Developers are getting robbed when you let friends play split-screen. They didn't buy the game, so they shouldn't feel entitled to play it!

Still buying day 1 b/c I <3 SSX and I won't play it online much anyway, but this is pretty annoying.

 

[djplaeskool]

CDs, DVDs, BluRays or Books, for example. Unless they're destroyed you can use them in the same way the first customer used them.

Use does not constitute having similar guarantees or warranties for the product or its services.

 

[Kusagari]

CDs, DVDs, BluRays or Books, for example. Unless they're destroyed you can use them in the same way the first customer used them.

This is the exact reason Blu-rays have started adding things like digital codes. To try to add some value to new copies.

Though online passes are obviously far bigger a problem.

 

[OG Kush]

These online passes just kill the gaming culture of taking a copy of your favourite game to your friends house. I remember taking halo 2 to my friends house and playing split screen online the whole night. Stuff like this will become less and less common.

 

[Orayn]

If it is, buy the game new and give the company who made your current favorite game their due payment for making your life a little brighter. If you do buy used, why should they support someone who obviously isn't a customer of theirs?

The prevailing explanation I hear on GAF is that selling a game should involve selling all additional content and services associated with the original owner. I kind of get this, but I still feel kind of bad for developers when Gamestop facilitates two people getting the same entertaining experience out of a good game, but the developers only received the money for one copy.

CDs, DVDs, BluRays or Books, for example. Unless they're destroyed you can use them in the same way the first customer used them.

It may shock you to hear that games are developed, sold, and distributed differently from CDs, DVDs, BluRays, and books.

 

[JWong]

These online passes just kill the gaming culture of taking a copy of your favourite game to your friends house. I remember taking halo 2 to my friends house and playing split screen online the whole night. Stuff like this will become less and less common.

Bring your console, obviously.

 

[CloakedPuppet]

CDs, DVDs, BluRays or Books, for example. Unless they're destroyed you can use them in the same way the first customer used them.

Sure, good points, but these items are not the same as new. They may be scratched, scuffed or damaged in any varying degree that makes them not as desirable to some people. As an informed consumer, I have the option and choice to purchase new or used as I see fit for each situation. As much as I dislike Gamestop, they always inform people of online passes when purchasing used and, as far as I know, adjust the resale price accordingly (usually an additional 10 dollars). BF3 would normally be at least $54.99 used but when I enquired on it's price they quoted $44.99 due to the need for an online pass.

Talking about consumer rights here is laughable.

 

[snap0212]

It may shock you to hear that games are developed, sold, and distributed differently from CDs, DVDs, BluRays, and books.

It shocks me that you think I was doing anything but answering his question. I thought I made that clear by quoting his question.

 

[CouchMaster]

These online passes just kill the gaming culture of taking a copy of your favourite game to your friends house. I remember taking halo 2 to my friends house and playing split screen online the whole night. Stuff like this will become less and less common.

PC gamers can't do it, so why are you complaining about it? Take your console with you like they take their PC boxes to every LAN party.

 

[Orayn]

It shocks me that you think I was doing anything but answering his question. I thought I made that clear by quoting his question.

Sorry... I'm kind of on a hair trigger when it comes to that particular false equivalency, though not because it automatically justifies online passes and the like, but because it's inaccurate. People are quick to ignore that most artists who make albums also go on tour, that films are usually shown in theaters first, etc.

 

[RedNumberFive]

It may shock you to hear that games are developed, sold, and distributed differently from CDs, DVDs, BluRays, and books.

The only shocking thing is when I hear people speak like the game industry lives in it's own special bubble, seperated from other types of entertainment media. I hear a lot about "entitlement GAF", but I'm still unsure why I should give a shit about entitled developers who think they should have the right to double-dip.

 

[staticneuron]

This is the nicest option because it involves giving free stuff to everyone. It's money down the drain if the game doesn't do well, but it will endear some people.

I think it is normally the Pub that makes these calls and I doubt they would want to give anything away for free.

This means charging for the content as originally intended, but might give customers the impression that the content was cut from the main game. Could make money from new and used buyers alike, right from the beginning.

I don't think there is any real way for people to NOT feel as if content was cut from main game if the DLC is actually on the disc.

CDs, DVDs, BluRays or Books, for example. Unless they're destroyed you can use them in the same way the first customer used them.

Not really. I have many Blu ray titles (out of hundreds) that have codes for special passes or DD copies. If I used them the first time around then the person who gets it second hand cannot use them. Similar situation to games.

The more i read gaf the more i am convinced tha some gamers are the best consumers for greedy corporations. SMFH. No one should be defending these anti consumer crap. Next gen we are getting more screwed. This is only the beginning.

It is just like always. It doesn't bug me as a consumer since I do not deal with used games. I do not purchase games I don't plan on keeping, I rent games that I feel are not worth the purchase. So I do not feel any value is stripped from my personal product. Before the product reaches the stores, the pubs are defining the cost and notifying the consumer of this. That is their right. There is nothing "anti-consumer" about this. If they didn't tell you or have it clearly marked on the box then that would be a problem. Now that they have made a decision and let the consumers know, it is now up to the "consumers" to speak with their dollars. Don't like the method? Feels like a rip off? Don't buy it.

 

[Einbroch]

PC gamers can't do it, so why are you complaining about it? Take your console with you like they take their PC boxes to every LAN party.

Can't you just bring your hard-drive or memory stick with your profile on it?

Or is it tied to the console. I thought it was tied to the account. You don't even have to lug around your console, just a thumb drive. But people will find something to complain about even though PC gamers have done this since the dawn of time.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Can't you just bring your hard-drive or memory stick with your profile on it?

Or is it tied to the console. I thought it was tied to the account. You don't even have to lug around your console, just a thumb drive. But people will find something to complain about even though PC gamers have done this since the dawn of time.

My understanding is that all of EA's online pass stuff is tied to your console. I had a hell of a time moving licenses over when my 360 died.

 

[SykoTech]

Just stopping by to echo the sentiment that Online Passes do indeed suck. Unfortunately, I don't see them going away. But hey, futile complaining feels better than just sitting there and taking it.

 

[Orayn]

I think it is normally the Pub that makes these calls and I doubt they would want to give anything away for free.

This does factor into it, yes. There's also the matter of Microsoft and Sony having restrictions on how much content can be given away for free if the developers wanted to give it to everybody, but digitally.

I don't think there is any real way for people to NOT feel as if content was cut from main game if the DLC is actually on the disc.

My interpretation of "Day 0 DLC" was that it would be sold from the very start, but not included on the disc.

 

[Wthermans]

I'm surprised at how unaware or uncaring the general public seems to be about online passes. The last 3 used games that I got from Gamestop that had online passes, they all worked for me. So the 1 (or more) people who had the game before me either didn't give a shit about online or didn't know it had a pass.

Granted Resistance 3's pass was a tiny code on the back of the manual, easy to miss I suppose. I didn't see it at first either. But I was still pretty surprised to find out they all worked.

Completely anecdotal, but it seems for every person I know that has their Wii/360/PS3 connected online, there are 2-3 others that don't. I make it a point to ask those w/o net access what they would do if a game they owned locked content until they registered their new game online and the answer has been a resounding "I wouldn't buy that game".

 

[Einbroch]

My understanding is that all of EA's online pass stuff is tied to your console. I had a hell of a time moving licenses over when my 360 died.

Interesting. On their website it says it's tied to your account.

Once downloaded and activated, the Online Pass will have been registered to your account...

But I've never used it, so I don't know.

 

[snap0212]

Sorry... I'm kind of on a hair trigger when it comes to that particular false equivalency, though not because it automatically justifies online passes and the like, but because it's inaccurate. People are quick to ignore that most artists who make albums also go on tour, that films are usually shown in theaters first, etc.

Nah, I know that.

I wouldn't have a problem with online passes if they were kind of the last thing publishers could do. What pisses me off is that they've not tried any other ways that would be more convenient for me or would tackle the problem. They're willing to make me jump through extra hoops but they're not willing to do anything about the fact that GameStop makes a shitload of money off of used game sales.

Why don't publishers offer you to send old games back to them? Send in FIFA 10 and get a discount code for FIFA 11. That way they would make sure no one gets to play my old copy without them getting some money. They could sell the old FIFA to someone else and make a few bucks that way.

They could make deals with GameStop (GameStop collecting used games; selling them back to the publisher).

Make a compelling argument for buying new. Do what Microsoft did with Alan Wake. Instead of a crappy plastic box we got a nice Collector's Edition at no additional cost. We also got the first DLC for free. Alan Wake is still sitting on my shelve.

I have a problem with the fact that we're the ones who have to deal with this bullshit simply because they know they can get away with it. They clearly thought about different ways to 'tackle' used game sales and their only solution is to bully the person who actually plays your games? I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to deal with customer service simply because my code doesn't work. I shouldn't have to jump through hoops because Publishers are jealous of GameStop making money off of used game sales - and I'm pissed because they don't show me that they actually want to do something about what causes them to be mad at GameStop.

 

[Bizazedo]

Bring your console, obviously.

Or just have the friend come over to play, instead.

This is obviously out of bounds, though. Cat allergies.

 

[MMaRsu]

I fully support online passes and will by 2 copies of every game w/ an online pass I want just to counter anyone who boycotts it.

Oh wow you're so hip ninja scooter!

 

[RedNumberFive]

Interesting. On their website it says it's tied to your account.



But I've never used it, so I don't know.

I haven't used an EA online pass lately, but they may have changed things. All I know is that my 360 died mid way through Mass Effect 2, and I had to argue with EA reps for over a month to recover my Cereberus Network downloads to a new console.