Not much research, the link's in his profile.
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Surprise, SSX has Online Pass [Works differently than normal.]
- Thread starter LiK
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Not much research, the link's in his profile.
Many Bothan spies died to bring you that information!
Not much research, the link's in his profile.
Well fuck me. No wonder I sometimes find myself gobsmacked at some of the posts in these topics, they're coming from inside the house!
Using the online pass to give you online 'points' and benefits is a great workaround. It also helps to keep the multiplayer pool large for customers that buy new.
With the Wii U I suspect they'll start using a 'authentication card' which you place on the tablet. Would this be less annoying for those people that hate typing in codes? That said, typing in codes with the Wii U virtual keyboard should be relatively painless.
With the Wii U I suspect they'll start using a 'authentication card' which you place on the tablet. Would this be less annoying for those people that hate typing in codes? That said, typing in codes with the Wii U virtual keyboard should be relatively painless.
Yeah shocking, a developer that wants to be paid for the projects he works on. I'm hardly the only one with that opinion... It's like you're surprised people who post in this forum also work in the industry; how long have you been here?
Did you work for free prior to the invention of the online pass?
Do you feel sorry for me? I too develop software but given that my customers aren't gullible teens, I have no chance of abusing their right to resell my product once they've purchased it from me.
I'm not surprised that industry folk post here, I'm surprised at the manner in which you've approached this topic. That said, I find your attitude broadly in line with that of your employer and as such I'm glad it ain't my money lining your pockets.
Dwight Schrute
Member
Because they're not paid when they do the first sale ? Right ?
Should be the same for used book stores : WANT THE LAST CHAPTER ? GET PINGUIN PASS !
Used cars : Hey, want to brake ? GET TOYOTA PASS.
Come on, dev ARE paid on the first sale. Like 100% of the other products.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Beautifully stated
The only reason people get getting nickle'd and dime'd in this hobby is because the industry giants can. The holy grail for them seems to be totally influencing price of entry. It's going to be hilarious (but more sad) to see just how slowly game prices drop in a closed off system. All I know is when this point is reached, I'll be cutting back on the hobby more than I already have since my teens.
Version 3.0
Member
Bravo.
Not even close to the same thing on most implementations of the online pass.
Let's say I make a game. To keep the numbers managable, I make 10 copies of this game, and set aside a server with 2TB of space on it. Each copy sold can use up to 200GB of space for custom maps, mods, gametypes, and sprays. I've included the cost of maintaining this server in the sale price of the game.
Now you sell your copy on to someone else. They log on. Do I give THEM a free 200GB with their used copy? No, because I have no idea that you sold YOUR copy, so I can't delete your file share to make space for the new owner, because for all I know, you can come back at any time and would be pretty pissed if all your files were gone.
Instead, I make the used buyer who has zero business relationship with me pay me the calculated per-copy cost so I can afford to also provide them server space without shortchanging the people that actually bought my game new.
Cars are the same way. While you can resell your car, the person buying the used car in msot cases cannot have your warranty transferred to them, because that was a perk of you buying it new. The used dealer THEMSELVES can include a warranty on the car, but the manufacturer is not obligated to provide a warrant to the secondhand owner.
The vast majority of people buying this and never going online will see no difference. If you buy it used and never go online you still have the same game if you bought it new. They want the hardcore gamers that buy day 1 and play online to be rewarded for buying new on day 1, and not have those people subsidize supporting the used copy freeloaders. It's completely intentional that EA is making it cheaper to buy the game new than buy a 55$ used copy and a 10$ online pass. This is called competition. If you want it to stop, stop buying overpriced used games.
Dwight Schrute
Member
Make the online code inserted in the box reusable, an when the code is reused with a new PSN / XBLA ID, the old data is deleted.
End of the problem.
Free.
Then someone steals your box and logs on with it and deletes all your data without you being able to do anything. Nope. When you buy an used copy at Gamestop, you're Gamestop's customer, not EA's.
Dwight Schrute
Member
How is this a problem ?
Plus, I really wonder on 100 gamers how many got a game stolen. So instead of going with a reusable code that's FREE, let's make EVERYONE pay an online pass because ONE teenager on 100 will get his game stolen ?
:lol, come on.
It's not a problem. Expecting to be treated like you're EA's customer is.
Unless you buy directly from EA, you're not their customer. You're WalMart's, GameStop's or anyone else's customer. Mind blown?
MMaRsu
Member
Lol another corporate knight
Wrong.
No, just a game developer.
You do realize Gamestop is a corporation as well, right? SSX's new copy online pass is pretty tame compared to Halo Anniversary locking away single player content if you don't buy a new copy.
Online passes that affect offline content are still stupid. Online passes that only affect online services and bonuses are not. Guess which one SSX is.
Just because it's a low probability of getting your copy stolen, it doesn't mean that unlucky person should be screwed 2 times (copy stolen and online data erased). If that's the solution to this, then I want online passes to stay.
If GameStop is the problem, why not try to deal with GameStop instead of making me jump through hoops. Oh right, because as soon as publishers start bullying GameStop, GameStop will start bullying them and that's what they're really afraid of.
Publishers are not mad because you play a used copy of the game, they're pissed because they see how much money GameStop makes off of used games and they want to have a piece of that pie. Instead of adjusting to the market, the publishers bully gamers - even if they buy new. Codes don't work (not rare, check official forums), customer support won't give you new codes, codes simply won't work anymore after a certain amount of time, etc.
After my first problem with codes (code wasn't working and customer support wouldn't provide a new one unless I showed them a receipt I did not have anymore), I simply rent all games that come with some kind of online pass. Saves me a lot of money...
100% true, at least where I live. The only one I'm doing business with is the retailer. All problems that occur with the product have to be dealt with by the person who sold it to me. I could, theoretically, go to my retailer if the code isn't working, I could go there if my game isn't working, if it has a gamebreaking bug, if the disc is scratched, etc. There's no need for me to ever do any business with the publisher or anyone else except the person who sold it to me.
New copy sold at Gamestop of SSX:
Gamestop: 15$
Returns: 7$
Distribution companies and materials: 4$
Platform Royalty: 7$
EA: $27
Used copy sold at Gamestop of SSX for 55$:
Gamestop: 30$
EA: 0$
In what universe am I EA's customer by buying the used copy?
I didn't say you were EA's customer when buying used. I said you never were EA's customer to begin with. You're doing business with a retailer, not EA.
New copy sold at Gamestop of SSX:
Gamestop: 15$
Returns: 7$
Distribution companies and materials: 4$
Platform Royalty: 7$
EA: $27
Used copy sold at Gamestop of SSX for 55$:
Gamestop: 30$
EA: 0$
In what universe am I EA's customer by buying the used copy?
Funny. I've bought loads of game this gen and haven't faced any of these anti consumer practises. I just buy games from publishers that don't meddle in these practises. Also you assume I can't buy old titles. So I'll resort to buying second hand games because you didn't want people to buy second hand games. That is irony.
Pro Tip: EA's customer is GameStop. Supply chain - learn it.
Yeup.
Gamestop is one of their customers. However, you are also EA's customer.
In an used game sale, you are only the customer of Gamestop, not of EA and Gamestop. If it were true that Gamestop was EA's only customer (if Gamestop were the sole retailer), then we can just start counting shipped copies as sold copies.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
Whats the big deal?
Don't be a skank and buy the game from new...
Don't be a skank and buy the game from new...
At least you can actually play the full game and online isn't locked away with this SSX pass.
also kind of funny that devs posting in threads like these in the past has made me buy almost all my games used. The stuff written just makes me mad.
Heck, Nintendo seems to be in a position to manage this stuff better with their codes for posters and cheap toys in new copies. At least with them I feel like I'm getting something extra for buying new and not a gimped version that gets made whole with an unlock code.
also kind of funny that devs posting in threads like these in the past has made me buy almost all my games used. The stuff written just makes me mad.
Heck, Nintendo seems to be in a position to manage this stuff better with their codes for posters and cheap toys in new copies. At least with them I feel like I'm getting something extra for buying new and not a gimped version that gets made whole with an unlock code.
iOS and Steam games are even more restricted than console games with online passes. You can't resell them without selling the account that was used to buy them.
Games go out of print and thus second hand is the only option. People can be late adopters of systems so may not even have a console to play the game day one.
Only if they paid full price.
Ninja Scooter
Member
If a game is out of print do you really think the online community will even be active?
When I'm buy retail games for $10 only a handful of months after release? Hahahahahahaha
It would be a lot more active if most of the people buying the game weren't locked out of the online!
Version 3.0
Member
Hold on a second. If you buy new, and you're the customer of Gamestop AND EA, then buying used just adds more names to that list. You'd then be the customer of Gamestop, Fred Smith (who sold it to Gamestop), Wal-Mart (where Fred bought it) and EA (who sold it to Wal-Mart).
A game console is not a PC. It's a closed platform with DRM build into fundamentals of the system.
These online passes aren't about "piracy" control, or even really about curbing used sales. It's about creating false scarcity. Conditioning people to pay for something that used to be free.
When was Catwoman DLC free? I forget.
Inded. Also funny how he "threatens" EA will go under due to the second hand market as well andit will be all our fault. Talk about moral dishonesty:if the second biggest publisher in the world is indanger of going under due to a second hand market that has always existed, then the problem is them, not us. And how much money from the online passes will 38 studios/BHG see anyway? According to Curt, none. Yeah, but we are supporting the people who make the games, right?
His "oh no, I'm a developer and have to eat" argument is frankly pathetic.
When it was announced and marketed as part of the base game and not as upmcoming or day 1 DLC. The same way the promotional material and even the manual for Kingdoms of Amalur included 6 factions, then 1 disappeared from the game page the day it was announced as to be included with the online pass (itisstill mentioned in the manual). I'm not saying they don't have the right to deliberately partition their content the way they see fit, but they don't make it apparent as a way to mislead people.
MMaRsu
Member
Catwoman was already included in the game and PART OF THE STORY way before they announced a fucking week before the release dat she would be part of the online pass. Just because it wasnt on the disc does not make it DLC to me, you know, because it was already done way before the game even came out.
Either way, I am probably going to buy this game, but still second hand. Or maybe I will wait till it hits bargain bins. This IS the best way of including an online pass, but it's still a shitty practice.
Also, why do people(developers/publishers) that they SHOULD receive extra cash for a resale?
And yes, online passes = gimping the original seller as well, since he could not have an active internet connection and sp content could be locked out like in Batman, even if you buy new. I talked to some people who didnt even enter the code but they did have an internet connection.. rofl.
Another game I would have bought new or at least new after a sale/discount down to 40 I won't touch except through gamefly or sub 15$ used. Hope EA is happy instead of 60$ for Battlefield, 60 for mass effect 3, 40ish for SSX, and 40ish for Syndicate they will be getting 0/near 0. 200$ turned into 0? Good job EA, if you want to gimp my possible resale value I just won't ever buy your shit new.
Old roommate bought Batman brand new and even after emailing/calling WB repeatedly never got a working code for catwoman.
Old roommate bought Batman brand new and even after emailing/calling WB repeatedly never got a working code for catwoman.
MMaRsu
Member
Never will I disrespect one's right to vote with their wallet. At least you aren't a hypocrite.
CouchMaster
Member
I used to buy FIFA games brand new every year after selling last years version, now after the invention of online pass the resale value is gone, so I no longer buy them every year. The second-hand market economy used to fund my new purchase, but not anymore, who's loss is this?
It's honestly saved me a TON of money.
2007-2010 I bought 8-12 new games a year, and maybe 3-4 used.
2011 - Bought Skyrim and Catherine new, and I think the rest were crazy steam sale sub 10$/used/rentals and I played as much if not more than previous years.
(Didn't count ios/handhelds/XBLA since they don't have online passes in any I've seen/no used market for ios-xbla obviously)
So they should have given away Arkham Asylum free with it, too? It was already done way before the game even came out, and is definitely part of the story.
Understand this: By your logic, that is *exactly* what you are arguing. You are positing that a product developed on a different budget to the product you are purchasing should be given to you for free simply because it was completed prior to the release of the product you are purchasing.
...that's way too many words beginning with 'P' in a single sentence.
Strictly speaking, that's the same thing. Does it become 'okay' if - effectively - the entire game is gated behind an online pass, rather than simply a portion? It's just a matter of scale.
Even though it's more restrictive, you let it pass.
Hypothetical: If "Catwoman: Arkham City" had been made as a standalone game on XBLA (and similar services) for 800pts - maybe with the plot rejigged a little to act as a prequel to the story, much like Dead Rising: Case Zero, and a voucher to unlock it was given away with Arkham City - would anyone object to it?
Now tell me where the difference lies between *that* and what they *did* do?
I am not speaking for him but just guessing is that normally the prices are lower than a retail product and that's why he doesn't have an issue with them.
It is a matter of scale.
Downloadable game that is 15 or less? If it sucks/not worth keeping I don't care if I can't resell it because it cost me less than an hour of work, and it doesn't take physical space up in my house.
60$ disc? If it sucks/is great but so short I am done very fast and will never replay it? Damn right I want to ditch it for 40-45$ and not have it take up space in my house. (what I did from 2007-2010 through craigslist/amazon/gamestop depending on time/deals).
The only games I keep are the one game every 2-3 years I will want to replay, (Persona 4 for example), or games from companies who have proven to me in the past that they will release quality DLC that is reasonably priced (rockstar/bioware/bethesda).
I have a very capable PC but the only game I've ever bought for it for more than 10$ is Civ 5 and that's mainly because I played 5 hours of a review build at a friends place.
If you want me to keep your game, either make it worth keeping, make great DLC that runs a long time, or make it cheap enough that the 10 minutes on amazon isn't worth the money. If SSX was 20-30$ I would buy it new and if it sucked/was short on content I probably wouldn't bother/remember to sell it until I found it at the bottom of a box two years later and gave it to gamestop for 8 cents just to avoid throwing it in the trash.
Making the experience worse (if it's one of the game with online pass bugs), and hurting my resale value will just mean you won't see my money from the start since you apparently don't want me as a customer anyways.
How much is an online pass? How much was the Catwoman DLC? It's easy to fall into the trap of talking in terms of the full retail price, when the actual amount in question is the cost of the *extra* content. That's the part of the product that you can't sell.
I'm very curious to hear people's opinions of my "Catwoman: Arkham City" suggestion I made earlier, too.
I think online passes are 800 points or 10 dollars and not sure if the Catwoman was the same price or not but I think the way they handled the Catwoman DLC was underhanded especially since it was fairly intergral into the game and didn't seem like it should have been taken out like it was, I don't have issues with Online Passes in general though.
You know the Catwoman content was developed on a different budget the same way we know it wasn't i.e. we don't really know, but only by the way it is presented to us. And from announcement to almost release it was never made apparent that Catwoman wasn't part of the base game the same way Robin or Nightwing are not.