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[Karma Kramer]

A Jihad cannot be waged alongside a Judeo-Christian alliance, whatever you want to call this meat grinder proxy war, it's not a Jihad thanks to your Imperialist Zionist friends.

Are you suggesting, Western/US backing support of rebels will in-turn negate the rebels jihad and therefore end the violence?

 

[just tray]

This thread is now being monitored by the NSA.

In that case, they can all fuck off, drive off the side of a mountain going 100 mph for all I care. Not kidding, either.

 

[hym]

lol. Assad's father was President for nearly 30 years, died in office, his son took over. very democratic.

Yes he gained the position in an election, after Hafez al-Assad passed away Vice President Abdul Halim Khaddam (once again Sunni) held the office as the Syrian constitution prescribes. Bashar Al-Assad was then elected, again completely according to Syrian rule of law.

Oh, but you don't like that... I figure your parents never taught you common decency.
THEIR HOUSE, THEIR RULES.

Keep your nose out of the domestic affairs of others and you will save yourself a lot of trouble or end up like the US and stain your reputation to the level where their genocidal history starts to make sense.

Are you suggesting, Western/US backing support of rebels will in-turn negate the rebels jihad and therefore end the violence?

If they were righteous Muslims it would, but we are talking about Salafi mercenaries here, There is no god but hate and ignorance is the messenger of hate.

 

[phosphor112]

Not @ all..

Muslims like this are a whole lot better then me.. Anyone who has the balls to go fight Jihad for the sake of Allah will always get the highest praise from me..

Killing other Muslims isn't Jihad.

 

[Stinkles]

Are you suggesting, Western/US backing support of rebels will in-turn negate the rebels jihad and therefore end the violence?

he sort of is but if I have learned anything it is that America can easily fuck up both sides of a conflict simultaneously!

 

[Karma Kramer]

If they were righteous Muslims it would, but we are talking about Salafi mercenaries here, There is no god but hate and ignorance is the messenger of hate.

Does that mean righteous Muslims should oppose Western Secular/Democracy?

 

[phosphor112]

Does that mean righteous Muslims should oppose Western Secular/Democracy?

I'm sure this guy would kill a Shia any day cuz they "aren't Muslim."

 

[hym]

Does that mean righteous Muslims should oppose Western Secular/Democracy?

What is Western Secular? or Western Democracy? ideas do not belong to a geographical location.

First of all I need to remind you Muslims are adherents to the religion of Islam, not the 20th century perverted political ideology claiming to be a requirement for a Muslim state, that's Islamism and combined with Sunni Qutbism it becomes fascism.

The Quran both states there can't be compulsion in religion and the authority of the state must be respected so it must be compatible with both a Secular state and Democracy. Yes like all scripture it also includes direct contradictions to essentially everything of importance but that's the point where you have a couple options
A) choose to prioritize the verses advocating inclusion and sanity and file the rest away under historical matters like allowing slavery.
B) leave your faith because the ideal interpretation of a holy text should not produce contradictions so either you are unable to achieve that interpretation and are therefor unworthy or more likely, it does not exist.
C) become an asshole.

Most Muslims I have encountered throughout my life have gone with option A), mostly Turks but also Iranians and Moroccans, only a couple went with B), and thanks to the spread of Wahhabism funded by Saudi oil there is also an influx in C) since the last 2 decades.

And Mr. Cheddary only picked C) because he has an inferiority complex, but no worries, he believes he will be forgiven of all his sins if he dies a martyr, that day can't come soon enough.

And even some gambling:

If these clowns weren't ruining the lives of others they would be top-tier comedy right next to the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

[Synth_floyd]

Yes he gained the position in an election, after Hafez al-Assad passed away Vice President Abdul Halim Khaddam (once again Sunni) held the office as the Syrian constitution prescribes. Bashar Al-Assad was then elected, again completely according to Syrian rule of law.

There was only one candidate on the ballot and he was elected with 99.7% of the vote. Yeah that was totally legit.

 

[hym]

There was only one candidate on the ballot and he was elected with 99.7% of the vote. Yeah that was totally legit.

What do you propose he does if nobody is willing to oppose him, should he force somebody to?

 

[Synth_floyd]

Are you serious or just a troll? It was a sham election.

 

[hym]

Are you serious or just a troll? It was a sham election.

THEIR HOUSE, THEIR RULES. I consider the US runs on a failed and false democracy as well, but that's a concern for their citizens to handle not foreigners.

Do you know how the president of the People's Republic of China is 'elected' in their one party system? your cellphone indicates to me you're fine with benefiting from states which don't even want to pretend to be democratic.

 

[el retorno]

Are you serious or just a troll? It was a sham election.

He's not a troll, he's used the Syrian laws defense to justify Assad's actions.

The US can't use international norms to critique the nation because conveniently Assad has written them out of his personal constitution.

If syrian laws says assad can kill 20 kittens a day, who are we to say something about it? Its legal there!

 

[BigJonsson]

What are the limits to, "Their house, their rules?"
Or is it anything goes as long as they write it down on paper and have the military/police enforce it?

 

[hym]

What are the limits to, "Their house, their rules?"
Or is it anything goes as long as they write it down on paper and have the military/police enforce it?

There are plenty of options, the US method is to write it on paper, then consider it sacred, followed by ignoring it and refusing to adjust it to reality. Their system has the media enforcing that lie. Whether I prefer oppression through force or oppression through deception is irrelevant because I'm a citizen of neither.

As Vladimir Putin said:
“The only difference is that our diplomatic missions don’t actively cooperate with Occupy Wall Street, and your diplomatic mission works together and directly supports Russian opposition. I think this is wrong because diplomatic missions must forge ties between states and not meddle with their domestic politics.”

Btw this is what the US does when their partner has something the US depends on and is willing to make a deal for it, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Kuwait, China,... I don't see the US complain about the complete absence of democracy and forceful oppression there.

Russian consistency vs. US hypocrisy.

 

[BigJonsson]

So the world should turn a blind eye under all circumstances? How depressing

 

[Synth_floyd]

Hym, what do you gain by defending Assad? I've never seen such a blatantly obvious defense of the indefensible before on a forum like this. You an Alawite or something rooting for your home team? Or is someone from the Iran/Syria/Hezbollah axis doing astroturfing on Neogaf?

 

[hym]

So the world should turn a blind eye under all circumstances? How depressing

Who said anything about all circumstances, we are talking domestic affairs, if one state invades another the victim has every right to request assistance from allies.

“Unless a nation's life faces peril, war is murder.”
-- Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

Most US wars tend to be murder it seems.

Hym, what do you gain by defending Assad? I've never seen such a blatantly obvious defense of the indefensible before on a forum like this. You an Alawite or something rooting for your home team? Or is someone from the Iran/Syria/Hezbollah axis doing astroturfing on Neogaf?

Obviously you're wrong by stating it's indefensible, I'm quite comfortable doing it and my opinion is not fringe at all, it's compatible with the official stance of Russia and China. It only appears strange to you because you are never exposed to it by one-sided media.

I'm an antitheist, but I feel insulted in the name of those you mentioned for thinking they would piss on faith like I do.
There is no god but nature and science is the messenger of reality.

In Islam land I do have sympathies for those as far away from Al-Qaeda as possible, I'm unapologetic about that.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Who said anything about all circumstances, we are talking domestic affairs, if one state invades another the victim has every right to request assistance from allies.

“Unless a nation's life faces peril, war is murder.”
-- Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

Most US wars tend to be murder it seems.

Didn't Iraq invade another? Therefore Kuwait requested assistance?

Also wouldn't, for example, North Koreans be victims of North Korean Dictatorship? Who do they request assistance to?

Same deal with Iran? (2009 Day of Rage protests)

 

[BigJonsson]

Sorry, the leader of a territory does not have carte blanche to do whatever he wants inside his borders

There are limits to what the rest of the world can allow to happen, otherwise it would really suck to be born in an area ruled by a tyrant

 

[hym]

Sorry, the leader of a territory does not have carte blanche to do whatever he wants inside his borders

There are limits to what the rest of the world can allow to happen, otherwise it would really suck to be born in an area ruled by a tyrant

Then how do you explain the United States? nobody can challenge or intervene if the ruling structure decided to turn on its citizens (it kinda did with the NSA but sheeple don't mind too much) as long as their military might stands.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Someones gotta be #1

Do you seriously think if the US military was weak there would be less conflicts?

 

[dripdripsplash]

Yup. Washington will arm the rebels. At the same time Assad is reportedly opening a front against Israel to garner support from the people. And you do know how much support you get when you declare war with Israel... I'm on my phone but the sources is from Times of Israel under the region tab.

 

[Synth_floyd]

Obviously you're wrong by stating it's indefensible, I'm quite comfortable doing it and my opinion is not fringe at all, it's compatible with the official stance of Russia and China. It only appears strange to you because you are never exposed to it by one-sided media.

How much do the Russian and Chinese governments pay for astroturfing on a video game forum? Probably not that much. Do you live in a country with low cost of living? Otherwise seems like you're getting a raw deal.

 

[hym]

Someones gotta be #1

Do you seriously think if the US military was weak there would be less conflicts?

There is nothing wrong with the US military, they can be as big or small as they like, the issue is obviously foreign policy.

How much do the Russian and Chinese governments pay for astroturfing on a video game forum? Probably not that much. Do you live in a country with low cost of living? Otherwise seems like you're getting a raw deal.

I suggest you take your evidence for those claims to a moderator because this is a bannable offense, I will be interested to see what making false accusations earns you. It must be sad if the only way for you to comprehend an opposing opinion is to assume it's bought, poisoned by capitalism I guess.

You do know the Christians, Druze, Shia, Secularists in Syria also completely back the Syrian government right? when the US decided to arm Sunni Islamists those bullets will be used against Christians.

Helping Syrian rebels a dangerous risk By Rand Paul

There is also the quandary of nearly 2 million Christians who are uncertain of what to do. The Christian community in Syria has traditionally sided with, and been protected by, Bashar al-Assad's regime. It is troubling to think that American arms may be given to Islamic fighters who may in turn be firing them at Christians.

In Syria, residents return to battered town retaken by government

Several holes pierced the gold-colored dome of St. Elias Roman Catholic Church, a prominent structure in the center of town. Inside, the marble altar was broken, the likenesses of saints and Christ were defaced and the walls were filled with anti-Christian graffiti with sayings such as, "The religion of our master will be victorious against all tyrants."

Among the first to return were various families from Qusair's Christian minority, who represented perhaps 10% of the more than 40,000 residents of Qusair. Many arrived to find rubble in place of homes where their families had lived for generations. In front of one row of caved-in structures, several Christian residents profusely thanked a Hezbollah commander for having helped eject the rebels, whom the Christians viewed as hostile to non-Muslims.

So I'm accused of being a Shia shill for essentially defending Freedom of Religion in an Arab nation... based on recent history it's the US/UK/France who lost their values when it comes to foreign policy. I refuse to side with Islamist extremists who attack a Secular state which has a history of protecting its minorities against an enemy which sees even most Sunni as filth.

It would be great if the Syrians were with us but the kuffar [infidels] are not important. Even Sunnis who want democracy are kuffar as are all Shia. It’s not about who is loyal and who isn’t to the regime; it’s about their religion.

 

[Karma Kramer]

nobody can challenge or intervene

Also, wait a minute! You just said no one should intervene with domestic politics. The people of America aren't requesting a foreign military to save them and compared to Russia/China the US has more freedoms and less human rights abuses.

 

[Karma Kramer]

"Nowhere in rebel-controlled Syria is there a secular fighting force to speak of" -- New York Times, April 28, 2013

Syrian rebels pledge loyalty to al-Qaeda -- USA Today, April 11, 2013

Has the press directly asked the Obama administration about why they are pursuing this tactic?

 

[Lagspike_exe]

"Nowhere in rebel-controlled Syria is there a secular fighting force to speak of" -- New York Times, April 28, 2013

Syrian rebels pledge loyalty to al-Qaeda -- USA Today, April 11, 2013

Has the press directly asked the Obama administration about why they are pursuing this tactic?

USA never really cared who's it sideing with, as long as its interests are at stake. USA is actively trying to destroy Assad (and the entire Syria along with him) because:
1) He is a Russian and Iranian ally and Russians have naval presence there.
2) Qatar wants to make a pipeline through Syria, which could potentialy reduce Europe's dependance on Russian gas. Energy is the cause of most Middle East conflicts.
http://www.thenational.ae/business/energy/qatar-seeks-gas-pipeline-to-turkey

As such, US will arm the rebels even if that means that the Al Qaeade will get them as well, because removing Assad from power is, in this case, a strategic priority.

 

[Karma Kramer]

USA never really cared who's it sideing with, as long as its interests are at stake. USA is actively trying to destroy Assad (and the entire Syria along with him) because:
1) He is a Russian and Iranian ally and Russians have naval presence there.
2) Qatar wants to make a pipeline through Syria, which could potentialy reduce Europe's dependance on Russian gas. Energy is the cause of most Middle East conflicts.
http://www.thenational.ae/business/energy/qatar-seeks-gas-pipeline-to-turkey

As such, US will arm the rebels even if that means that the Al Qaeade will get them as well, because removing Assad from power is, in this, a strategic priority.

Understood, thanks for the info, but specifically, has the press asked them about the implication of arming Al Qaeda as a national defense policy?

 

[liger05]

They don't want democracy. They don't see Democracy as Islamic, and they'll fight tooth and nail to get what they want.

Ironically, they (extremists) used "democracy" to justify pushing out the family of Muhammad from the caliphate, and later kill and oppress those who followed them.

Thats the Shia interpretation of events which is wrong.

If you want to talk about extremists look at those who curse the Sahaba every Friday.

 

[hym]

Understood, thanks for the info, but specifically, has the press asked them about the implication of arming Al Qaeda as a national defense policy?

They said they were strictly arming Moderate rebels connected to the Syrian National Coalition, it's true only the FSA recognizes them and they don't even make up 30% of the fighters but it's also true they cooperate with Al-Qaeda. If FSA were to refuse sharing weapons with the actual dominant fighting force they would become a target themselves. Also there should be massive quotation marks around the word “MODERATE” because The Farouq Brigades are one of the largest and well-known units of the Free Syrian Army was founded and commanded by nobody else than Omar al-Farouq, the corpse desecrating cannibal.

And while that might be all amusing in practice it will be the dominant force who end up with the weapons regardless of who they are handed over to in Turkey, FSA will just become gun runners for Al-Qaeda.

The Washington Post - Islamic law comes to rebel-held Syria

David Ignatius: “Jabhat al-Nusra which was born of the womb of al-Qaeda in Iraq is I think the strongest fighting force on the ground in Syria today. When I was in Aleppo I asked the FSA commander, do you work with the Al-Nusra people, he looked at me like I was crazy, he said of course we do, they are the best fighters we have, they only ask for a chance to die. These extremist fighters are now interwoven with the opposition movement that we are supporting, think about that, we are supporting a movement whose strongest element is linked with Al-Qaeda.”

I give it a month before we see pictures like these. This is what happened to the weapons delivered to the trust worthy Libyans, Hamas says thanks, Israelis are probably less exited.

Looks a bit like a Halo prop doesn't it? it's the The FN F2000 is a 5.56×45mm NATO bullpup assault rifle.

 

[liger05]

They said they were strictly arming Moderate rebels connected to the Syrian National Coalition, it's true only the FSA recognizes and they don't even make up 30% of the fighters but it's also true they cooperate with Al-Qaeda. If FSA were to refuse sharing weapons with the actual dominant fighting force they would become a target.

And while that might be amusing to speculate on that's not going to happen.

The Washington Post - Islamic law comes to rebel-held Syria

the aim was to get the FSA to turn there guns on JAN.

 

[hym]

the aim was to get the FSA to turn there guns on JAN.

The aim of whom? the FSA never even held a major city, the courts and law enforcement have always been run by Al-Nusra or the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (they are separate again) outside of Kurdish territories (who I don't consider insurgents but that's a different matter). If the FSA would truly target them it would be suicide, they are meaningless on the ground outside propaganda and for the sake in diplomatic arguments. Like calling them Moderate and Secular when their actions illustrate the opposite.

The Washington Institute - Convoy of Martyrs in the Levant

 

[liger05]

The aim of whom? the FSA never even held a major city, the courts and law enforcements have always been run by Al-Nusra or the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (they are separate again). If the FSA would truly target them it would be suicide, they are meaningless on the ground outside propaganda and for the sake in diplomatic arguments. Like calling them Moderate and Secular when their actions are the opposite.

The Washington Institute - Convoy of Martyrs in the Levant

I dont think the FSA ever contemplated doing such thing but do belive the likes of Jordan and the US want them to be the leading force in this war. It's silly to even think of a thing simply because the FSA is not some secular fighting force while JAN and others are somehow islamic. The FSA have the same Islamic sentiments as the other groups. While they all may differ on what Syria should look like post Assad I fail to see where this so called secular element is? The so called opposition in exile can talk about secluarism and democracy but these people have no legitimacy on the ground.

Most importantly I dont think its even possible for the FSA to be the leading force when the other brigades are clearly better orgnanised.

 

[phosphor112]

Thats the Shia interpretation of events which is wrong.

If you want to talk about extremists look at those who curse the Sahaba every Friday.

I'm not going to get into arguments about the history of Islam, but if you think that justifies the centuries of trying to completely kill off a group of people, you can take your rhetoric elsewhere.

You have no authority to deem someone Muslim or not.

 

[Cromat]

You are either ignorant or a liar if you claim that 1970 Syria was the same as 2011 Syria, you do know a new constitution was ratified and the emergency law was lifted. Politicians can be elected outside of Ba'ath party approval and private media is allowed. Things did change, and everyone is free to argue it should have changed faster but if you have people willing to start a war to end freedom of religion then you clearly have bigger issues on your hands than providing more freedom.
As if that's the issue. This is a different world, your logic doesn't apply.

So are you saying that Syria wasn't an oppressive police state? Because pretty much every international watchdog agency would disagree.

Also I know people who actually lived in Syria until the early 1990s. They remember how the government forced them and their teachers to go out in the middle of the day to take part in a demonstration of support for Assad (the father). They remember having his portrait above every blackboard in every class and on the face of every notebook. They remember members of his intelligence agencies beating up their fathers and uncles and taking protection money from shopkeepers. They remember a group of police men beating the hell of a Palestinian in the street for nothing in particular.

More recently, Syria was one of the world's most restrictive country's with regards to internet access (this was before the revolution mind you). Syrian TV channels routinely air clips of praise to Bashar and follow whatever line he and his cronies dictate. Syria's constitution banned the Muslim Brotherhood and threatened members with death, but that didn't stop Bashar from supporting Hamas with funds, arms and training, although they are literally the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. I remember he boasted when the revolution in Egypt happened, saying the reason why there wasn't much happening in Syria (the stuff in Der'a was just beginning) because they 'supported the resistance'. Yep, and the 'resistance' supported them back - the 'resistance' killed much more Syrians than it ever killed Israelis.

Lastly, the new constitution was only adopted after the revolt has already started. How convenient it is to be reminded that freedom actually matters after 40 years when people start asking for your head.

 

[Solid warrior]

Looks like a direct intervention against the Assad regime will most likely happen soon. The nature of that intervention is unclear so far but it could be a no-fly zone. Also, The western governments will join Saudi Arabia and Qatar in funding militants and sending lethal aid to them, Publicly.

Not sure if this is a good solution to a long bloody civil war. Shia of Syria and Lebanon will probably be killed in thousands after the regime fall. Syrian Christians will most likely be in danger too.

 

[liger05]

I'm not going to get into arguments about the history of Islam, but if you think that justifies the centuries of trying to completely kill off a group of people, you can take your rhetoric elsewhere.

You have no authority to deem someone Muslim or not.

When did I do that?

 

[phosphor112]

When did I do that?

You said these people are fighting a Jihad, against who? Clerics are calling for "Sunnis" to fight because they don't deem Shia as Muslims. They are going to Syria so they can kill those Shia, and those who aid them (Sunnis and Christians are part of those groups).

 

[BlueSummers]

Nothing changes in this thread..nothing but hymm defending Assad..and then some debate which follows but it never lasts long..sighhhh.

 

[liger05]

You said these people are fighting a Jihad, against who? Clerics are calling for "Sunnis" to fight because they don't deem Shia as Muslims. They are going to Syria so they can kill those Shia, and those who aid them (Sunnis and Christians are part of those groups).

Against the oppressor and his forces. His forces include Hezbollah, thats just the reality of the situation. I agree the ulema were quiet before hezbollah got involved but as soon as a Shia force was deemed to be attacking sunni's something was going to happen. Hezbollah raising banners (http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...ers-raising-their-flag-on-Qusayr-mosque-.html) on Sunni mosques does not help there cause.

I dont want to see sunni's fighting shia's. I just dont see the end game for Hezbollah in all this. Whether its victory or defeat they forever tarnished in the Arab world now.

 

[phosphor112]

Against the oppressor and his forces. His forces include Hezbollah, thats just the reality of the situation. I agree the ulema were quiet before hezbollah got involved but as soon as a Shia force was deemed to be attacking sunni's something was going to happen. Hezbollah raising banners (http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...ers-raising-their-flag-on-Qusayr-mosque-.html) on Sunni mosques does not help there cause.

This was all happening even before Hezbollah moved into Syria. You can't say their reactions were the cause of Hezbollah when they were happening before that.

 

[pulsemyne]

Yup. Washington will arm the rebels. At the same time Assad is reportedly opening a front against Israel to garner support from the people. And you do know how much support you get when you declare war with Israel... I'm on my phone but the sources is from Times of Israel under the region tab.

If this were to happen (and I'm not doubting it could) then Assad is making a big mistake. All it will do is turn his country into a bigger battlezone and it will be the civilians who suffer even more. The Isrealis could pummel the government forces if it wanted to and they would love hitting Hezbollah. It would basically give the Israelis a green light to do what they wanted and may even give the Israelis more maneuvering room for attacking Iran.

 

[liger05]

This was all happening even before Hezbollah moved into Syria. You can't say their reactions were the cause of Hezbollah when they were happening before that.

The Ulema were quiet before Hezbollah got involved. You didnt see guys openly calling for Jihad like yesterday. I have no no doubt there are clerics that have no love for hezbollah or shia but the difference was on the sunni street Hezbollah was seen as the force that ashamed the sunni armies as hezbollah stood up to Israel and ended up stronger after the conflict. Now Hezbollah are basically doing those clerics job for them to convince people that Hezbollah are evil.

 

[liger05]

If this were to happen (and I'm not doubting it could) then Assad is making a big mistake. All it will do is turn his country into a bigger battlezone and it will be the civilians who suffer even more. The Isrealis could pummel the government forces if it wanted to and they would love hitting Hezbollah. It would basically give the Israelis a green light to do what they wanted and may even give the Israelis more maneuvering room for attacking Iran.

I think a no fly zone is there to protect Israel and Jordan.

 

[Synth_floyd]

If Assad really was to open up a front with Israel it'd be a pretty bad mistake. Israel would cause massive damage to government defenses and infrastructure. It's the reason why Assad hasn't done anything in response to the Israeli attacks so far. He doesn't want to escalate any conflict with them.

 

[phosphor112]

The Ulema were quiet before Hezbollah got involved. You didnt see guys openly calling for Jihad like yesterday. I have no no doubt there are clerics that have no love for hezbollah or shia but the difference was on the sunni street Hezbollah was seen as the force that ashamed the sunni armies as hezbollah stood up to Israel and ended up stronger after the conflict. Now Hezbollah are basically doing those clerics job for them to convince people that Hezbollah are evil.

You mean the same Ulema that called on the death of Shia for decades?

This shit isn't new.

Here is a history lesson for you.

 

[hym]

Like with the Iraqi WMD lies, Germany sticks with the truth.

14 June, 2013 - Chemical Weapons Charge: Berlin Rules out Arms for Rebels

Steffen Seibert, spokesman for Chancellor Angela Merkel of the conservative Christian Democrats, said Germany would stick with its position of not providing weapons to a country engaged in a civil war for "legal reasons". The opposition had made the same demand. Meanwhile, a spokesperson for the German Foreign Ministry said it had no information of its own about the use of deadly poison gas by the regime in Damascus.

And Russia laughs at the US requirement to deceive citizens to justify what the pentagon desires. Yay democracy, Americans don't even know what their government does and why anymore, have fun judging it.

14 June, 2013 - Data on chemical arms use by Syria’s al-Assad fabricated, Russian MP says

A senior pro-Kremlin Russian lawmaker said on Friday that information on the use of chemical weapons by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s forces was fabricated and suggested the United States would use it to justify intervention in the conflict.

“Information about the use by Assad of chemical weapons has been fabricated in the same place as the lies about (Saddam) Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction,” Alexei Pushkov, head of the foreign policy committee in the lower chamber of the Russian parliament, said on Twitter. “Obama is taking the same path as George Bush.”

The US claims to have unequivocal corroborating evidence for chemical weapons use by the Syrian Army BUT they refuse to share it with the public. So people aren't allowed to know about the extension of their surveillance state and they have to trust them on justifications for war.

What a sad excuse for a superpower they have become.

So are you saying that Syria wasn't an oppressive police state? Because pretty much every international watchdog agency would disagree.

So are you saying that Israel isn't enforcing an oppressive police state onto West bank Palestinians? Because pretty much every international watchdog agency would disagree.

Here is the difference, Secular Syria is a sovereign state, The Jewish state of Israel pretends to be while occupying the land of others.

Also I know people who actually lived in Syria until the early 1990s.

I.e. people who never experienced Syria under Bashar al-Assad.

They remember having his portrait above every blackboard in every class and on the face of every notebook.

Oh no, pictures of the president in classrooms, the horror, I can't begin to comprehend the suffering this has caused.

Israelis continue to be clueless of Arab culture.

Syria's constitution banned the Muslim Brotherhood and threatened members with death, but that didn't stop Bashar from supporting Hamas with funds, arms and training, although they are literally the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Only threatened? you understand they are theocratic fascists right, treason on Syrian territory risks the death penalty. In an interview Assad addressed this, Syria doesn't support organizations it supports causes, in this case resistance against Israel. I wouldn't personally but I have no interests of a state to secure. Hamas controls Gaza, their house, their rules. Israel was instrumental in the creation of Hamas, not Syria, Israel is far more important to empowering Hamas than Syria ever was, the US neocons helped too by pushing for elections which they knew would divide Palestinians. Right now any solution would involve a 3 state solution thanks to those divide and conquer geniuses.

I always opposed Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, it's unfortunate that it they had to expose their true face once again for Iran, Syria, Hezbollah to be reminded who these people are and cut all ties, but better late than never.

The Muslim Brotherhood attempted to assassinate Gamal Abdel Nasser, it blows my mind that any Arab would forgive them but ignorance is bliss and people are frequently lured away from the correct path by short term benefits. I don't expect this schism to be solved within our lifetimes, Al-Qaeda cheered for Israeli airstrikes on an Arab country, they have exposed themselves.

 

[Cromat]

So are you saying that Israel isn't enforcing an oppressive police state onto West bank Palestinians? Because pretty much every international watchdog agency would disagree.

Here is the difference, Secular Syria is a sovereign state, The Jewish state of Israel pretends to be while occupying the land of others.

For lack of a good response you try to deflect this on another country, but unfortunately the subject of this discussion is Syria.
Also Israel has a lot to learn from Assad in terms of killing Arabs, he killed more in 2 years than Israel killed since its establishment. Truly remarkable.

I.e. people who never experienced Syria under Bashar al-Assad.

So you're saying there is a huge difference between the father and the son? Because you're rather lonely with that assertion.

Oh no, pictures of the president in classrooms, the horror, I can't begin to comprehend the suffering this has caused.

Israelis continue to be clueless of Arab culture.

If Arab culture means totalitarianism and worshiping dictators then yes, I am truly clueless, thankfully.
Do you honestly not realize why indoctrinating children to support their leader is a bad thing? How this sort of behavior is incompatible with democracy and proper government?

Only threatened? you understand they are theocratic fascists right, treason on Syrian territory risks the death penalty. In an interview Assad addressed this, Syria doesn't support organizations it supports causes, in this case resistance against Israel. I wouldn't personally but I have no interests of a state to secure. Hamas controls Gaza, their house, their rules. Israel was instrumental in the creation of Hamas, not Syria, Israel is far more important to empowering Hamas than Syria ever was, the US neocons helped too by pushing for elections which they knew would divide Palestinians. Right now any solution would involve a 3 state solution thanks to those divide and conquer geniuses.

I wonder how you would feel if the US used that excuse when arming the rebels. 'We don't support organizations, we support causes, in this case toppling Assad'.
And yes, I do realize they are theocratic fascists, which is why I find it odd that the so-called secular dictator would support Hamas and Hizbullah which are basically the same.

 

[hym]

I wonder how you would feel if the US used that excuse when arming the rebels. 'We don't support organizations, we support causes, in this case toppling Assad'.
And yes, I do realize they are theocratic fascists, which is why I find it odd that the so-called secular dictator would support Hamas and Hizbullah which are basically the same.

But this is the excuse they are using? Since 2011 we had to hear Assad needed to go, it's false of course, they are fully aware they underestimated the Syrian government and army and can't topple it, so they go for the consolation prize, weaken everyone involved and keep the meat grinder turning for as long as possible.


The Iraq déjà vu continues, UN warning the US:

UN secretary general says US arming Syria rebels 'would not be helpful

Arming the Syrian rebels as President Obama is proposing “would not be helpful,” United Nations chief Ban Ki-moon said Friday.

“Providing arms to either side would not address this current situation,” the U.N. secretary-general told reporters.

“There is no military solution to this conflict,” he said. “The military path points directly to the further disintegration of the country, the destabilization of the region and inflammation of religious and communal tensions.”

The White House said Thursday it will be providing “military assistance” to vetted rebel groups after concluding that President Bashar Assad's forces used chemical weapons against the rebels.

Ban said the U.S. mission to the U.N. shared its evidence with his office on Friday. He said only an investigation by independent U.N. experts would ensure the “validity” of reports of the use of chemical weapons, which he said would be a “crime against humanity.”

“The validity of information on the alleged use of chemical weapons cannot be assured without convincing evidence of the chain of custody,” Ban said.

He again called on Assad to allow the investigators to allow the U.N. experts into the country.

Maybe it's time to let the UN know the US doesn't desire a solution.