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Syrian Civil War |OT|

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RustyNails

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CHEEZMO™;81506893 said:
"The only way to deal with them is to annihilate them.”
Actually it is my opinion that Assad is driven by an inferiority complex of being in his father's shadow. His superego is strongly influenced by his father's order. Hafez ruthlessly crushed the rebellion in 1982, whereas Assad is struggling no doubt being coaxed by his mother. His state of mind when he launched the chemical attack clearly showed a panicked, frustrated tyrant.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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CHEEZMO™;81676441 said:
http://www.channel4.com/news/syria-al-bayda-massacre-war-crime-video

I'm glad this is finally getting attention. The fact that it was barely reported at the time is vile.

It takes time to compile the report considering the war that is going on and the clouding of facts, but it is good that this is getting attention.
The Human Rights Watch (HRW) report documents in exacting detail the summary executions of 248 people by Syrian government forces and allied irregular units in the mainly Sunni Muslim towns of al-Bayda and Baniyas on May 2 and 3 this year. The dead included women and children, some of them infants.
[...]
Shortly after the summary executions took place, the Syrian government acknowledged that its forces had been active in the towns—Sunni enclaves in a region overwhelmingly populated by pro-Assad Alawite Muslims—but insisted they had been battling “terrorists.”
[..]
“While the world’s attention is on ensuring that Syria’s government can no longer use chemical weapons against its population, we shouldn’t forget that Syrian government forces have used conventional means to slaughter civilians,” says Joe Stork, HRW’s acting Middle East director.

Why al-Bayda and Baniyas were earmarked for such treatment isn’t clear, but some opposition activists say the executions were meant to encourage Sunni Muslims to leave the region.

Both sides in Syria’s increasingly sectarian conflict, though, have committed atrocities.

Earlier this week, the United Nations commission charged with investigating human rights violations in Syria released an updated version of its findings listing a number of violations committed by both the rebels and Assad government forces.

“Government and pro-government forces have continued to conduct widespread attacks on the civilian population, committing murder, torture, rape and enforced disappearance,” the commission said. "They have laid siege to neighborhoods and subjected them to indiscriminate shelling."

But the commission also noted that Syrian rebels “have committed war crimes, including murder, execution without due process, torture, hostage taking.”

The commission said the Syrian government was responsible for eight massacres since the beginning of the year, while the rebels were responsible for one.
source

Next Monday is the date for release of the 21 Aug use of chemical weapons confirmation, from the UN.
 

CHEEZMO™

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Jan 22, 2008
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This in-fighting in the north sounds bigger than anything previously. Could have major consequences.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
Jul 7, 2004
14,838
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CHEEZMO™;82537793 said:
This in-fighting in the north sounds bigger than anything previously. Could have major consequences.

Yes it does, could be a scary situation actually.

For those who don't know(from BBC):

  • Rebel groups are fighting each other in a town near the Turkish border, with al-Qaeda linked jihadists gaining the upper hand in a battle with the Free Syrian Army
  • Unconfirmed video footage shows parts of Damascus being hit in air strikes
  • The UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said troops were battling rebels near the motorway leading to Damascus airport, and Kurdish gunmen had forced jihadists from a village in the north
 
Jun 7, 2013
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Nice to see the same old people cheering on the terrorists. I guess no one replied to what I previously posted about those kidnapped individuals claims.
 

CHEEZMO™

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Jan 22, 2008
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Who's cheering on terrorists? I thought you'd be happy that people are fighting Al Qaeda. I certainly am. Maybe now the US will see why they need to arm units under the SMC.

Wait.. OMG THAT WAS THEIR PLAN ALL ALONG!! It's another provocation!
 

liger05

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CHEEZMO™;82537793 said:
This in-fighting in the north sounds bigger than anything previously. Could have major consequences.

A pro FSA account explains

https://twitter.com/FSAUnited/status/380438101169954816

Clashes began after 2 ISIS members were killed by an Asafat Al Shamal member.
ISIS demanded from the Northern storm to hand over the killers of the 2 ISIS members in Azaz - and the Northern Storm rejected to hand them over, and infact rejected in very clear terms to hand over the killers.

ISIS did not storm the area as reported, rather they were in the area already, and after the killing - they clashed.

I thought you'd be happy that people are fighting Al Qaeda.

ISIS are not actually Al Qaeda in the sense they didnt give bayah to Al Zahawari. JAN did.

Seems like Liwa al-Tawhid have answered NS's call for help. Good news.

Jenan Moussa ‏@jenanmoussa 4m
Source tells me: "Tawhid is negotiating to reach a peaceful agreement btwn ISIS and FSA group in Azaz."
 

liger05

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Sep 5, 2009
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CHEEZMO™;82673633 said:
Sounds like negotiations failed.

Where have you seen that? I saw a that spokesman from Liwa al-Tawhid said they see both parties as brothers and will not be fighting against ISIS.

A pro ISIS account has given there description of the events in Azaz that sparked the clashes.

"So that all may know the truth: the Northern Storm battalions were guilty of treachery by giving a German man personal protection. This kafir had been taking photos of ISIS HQ; our brothers saw them and they fled; then the clash started with two ISIS soldiers killed and one ISIS soldier wounded; and three of these traitors (Northern storm) wounded.

As for this German kafir; these traitors had faciliated his escape and after that our brothers in ISIS assulted their HQ. There were people killed and wounded and our brothers undertook a clearing out. Many men and arms seized"


In other news it seems that the story many love to tell about christians being wiped out and rebels causing chaos in Maaloula was false.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24148322

Youth activists in Azaz confirm negotiations happening right now between ISIS & Liwa al-Tawheed.
 

liger05

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CHEEZMO™;82684589 said:
Twitter's been abuzz saying fighting has broken out. Jenan Moussa says she can hear a lot of shooting and there are ambulances zipping around.

Seems that negotiations are ongoing as fighting continues.
 

liger05

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Sep 5, 2009
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So that theory about how Assad is winning.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/19/syrian-government-civil-war-stalemate?CMP=twt_gu

The Syrian conflict has reached a stalemate and President Bashar al-Assad's government will call for a ceasefire at a long-delayed conference in Geneva on the state's future, the country's deputy prime minister has said in an interview with the Guardian.

Qadri Jamil said that neither side was strong enough to win the conflict, which has lasted two years and caused the death of more than 100,000 people. Jamil, who is in charge of country's finances, also said that the Syrian economy had suffered catastrophic losses.

"Neither the armed opposition nor the regime is capable of defeating the other side," he said. "This zero balance of forces will not change for a while."

Meanwhile, he said, the Syrian economy had lost about $100bn (£62bn), equivalent to two years of normal production, during the war.

If accepted by the armed opposition, a ceasefire would have to be kept "under international observation", which could be provided by monitors or UN peace-keepers – as long as they came from neutral or friendly countries, he said.

Really cant see how UN peace keepers will work. They will be seen as occupiers.
 

dapperbandit

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May 16, 2013
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While it's good that the FSA is trying to distance itself from Jihadist extremist groups, it just further highlights the divisions and instabilities among the opposition.

I just don't believe the opposition can be trusted to install any kind of leadership that can effectively lead the country. And that's if they topple Assad. And if they don't end up fighting Islamist groups afterwards.
 

liger05

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While it's good that the FSA is trying to distance itself from Jihadist extremist groups, it just further highlights the divisions and instabilities among the opposition.

I just don't believe the opposition can be trusted to install any kind of leadership that can effectively lead the country. And that's if they topple Assad. And if they don't end up fighting Islamist groups afterwards.

Well the leaders of the FSA may be but its debatable whether the fighting brigades are. Jabhut al Nusra has had 1000 FSA fighters pledge alligience to them in the last two weeks. No FSA in Raqqah city as they all joined JAN.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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pledge allegiance to al-queda you mean. The terrorists really are scum and they are mostly fighting each other to see how much territory their war lords can control and how much they can steal from the poor citizens they are now holding hostage. That's why more then 70% of Syrians want the government to crush the terrorists and whenever a city run by the terrorists is liberated the citizens come out of their shelters and welcome the SAA with flowers.
 

liger05

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Sep 5, 2009
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pledge allegiance to al-queda you mean. The terrorists really are scum and they are mostly fighting each other to see how much territory their war lords can control and how much they can steal from the poor citizens they are now holding hostage. That's why more then 70% of Syrians want the government to crush the terrorists and whenever a city run by the terrorists is liberated the citizens come out of their shelters and welcome the SAA with flowers.

Thank you for making me laugh today. Much appreciated.
 

ollin

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Source
 

liger05

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http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/09/20/uk-syria-crisis-qaeda-idUKBRE98J0DP20130920

(Reuters) - Hundreds of rebels have pledged allegiance to al Qaeda-affiliated forces in northern and eastern Syria, activists and Islamist sources said on Friday, strengthening the group's control in the region.

Not only individual fighters, but entire units have joined the small but powerful al Qaeda-linked groups - the Nusra Front and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) - in recent days, according to the sources inside Syria.

"This is a sign the radical groups are still growing in power. This region could fall to the jihadists," said an activist in the eastern town of Raqqa, who asked not to be identified. "We may see this become a trend."

Clashes have been intensifying between Nusra or ISIL and the less effective but more moderate forces that make up the majority of opposition fighters, especially in opposition-held territory along Syria's northern and eastern borders.

At least two entire rebel brigades are said to have joined the Nusra Front in the opposition-held province of Raqqa, which borders Turkey. One of the groups, the Raqqa Revolutionaries, has about 750 fighters in total, according to a source close to Islamist forces who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Another group, the God's Victory Brigade, said in a statement on Facebook that all of its leaders and fighters had pledged loyalty to Nusra Front.

"God's Victory Brigade, which is comprise of 15 battalions, had pledged its allegiance to the Nusra Front, giving complete submission (to it) in times of hardship and of ease," it said.

The Saudi's will move soon and try to equip and help the FSA take on the 'islamists'. The Saudi regime does not like salafists that dont follow there nationalistic madkhali ideology.

Surprise surprise the hotel revolutionaries of Idriss and the SMC have denounced ISIS. So predictable.
 

liger05

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CHEEZMO™;82866085 said:
I was going to link the big JN video about their initial operation in Maaloula but it seems it was taken down by youtube. I found a re-upload (dead folks around 24m-26m)

Opposition took control of Jalamah and Tal Malah (this one has some dead people in it) North of Hama.

Bonus video: Jihadi pool party~

That's jokes. Nasheed and the brothers having a pool party in the background.

Twitter saying Liwaa Omana al-Thauraa FSA (12 brigades) in ar-Raqqah pledge allegiance to Ahrar Al-Sham.
 

liger05

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I have tried to argue previously that the arms and funding the islamic resistance groups get is not from the regimes like KSA or Qatar or western nations such as the US or France but private donars.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...c783d2-2207-11e3-a358-1144dee636dd_story.html


GAZIANTEP, Turkey — The stream of U.S. weapons heading to moderate rebel groups in Syria is being offset by a fresh torrent of cash for Islamist extremists, much of it from small networks of Arab donors who see the Syrian conflict as a step toward a broader Islamist uprising across the region, U.S. and Middle Eastern officials say.

The private donors, who use Twitter and other social media to collect millions of dollars from sympathetic Muslims, are providing crucial backing for Islamist militias that appear to be gaining ground in northern and eastern Syria, even as fighting stalls elsewhere, the officials said.

Dollars raised over the Internet are wired between private banking accounts and hand-delivered by courier, often in border towns like this city of 1.4 million, about 20 miles from the Syrian frontier, according to Middle Eastern intelligence officials who monitor the activity. Some fundraising pitches ask for specific pledges to cover the cost of a weapon, for example, or to finance an operation. For $2,400, a donor can pay for the travel, training and arming of a single non-Syrian fighter.

“You can even get a video afterward showing what it was you paid for,” said one senior intelligence official based in the region. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss his country’s intelligence collection.

While radical groups such as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham have long relied on charitable giving from Persian Gulf states, the flow of private cash has enabled the extremists to retain their battlefield edge despite the loss of support from key Arab backers such as Qatar, which cut off aid to the most radical groups under pressure from the United States and Saudi Arabia, U.S. and Middle Eastern officials said.

The donations also have undermined Western efforts to ­strengthen the relative position of moderate and secularist rebel factions that are the intended recipients of U.S. weapons that began flowing into Syria last month, the officials said.

Obama administration officials say that they were working with gulf allies to shut off private cash flows but that the efforts have been complicated by the fundraisers’ under-the-radar tactics. The organizers also take advantage of lax regulations in some gulf states that allow fundraisers to set up small religious charities and canvass in mosques and other public venues, U.S. officials say.

“Much of this funding comes from private citizens in the gulf, particularly in Kuwait,” said David S. Cohen, the Treasury Department’s undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence. The country, a source of financial aid for extremist groups during the Afghan and Iraq wars, “unfortunately continues to be a permissive environment for terrorist fundraising,” he said.

What is more worrisome, officials say, is a new tendency among fundraisers to seek influence over the Syrian paramilitary groups they support. Some have adopted their own rebel militias and sought to dictate everything from ideology to tactics. Officials at one gulf-based organization, which calls itself the Ummah Conference, have helped promote a campaign to recruit thousands of Muslim volunteers for Syria while openly calling for a broader struggle against secular Arab governments and what one of its leaders terms “American terrorism.”
 

Guileless

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Jun 7, 2004
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Fascinating background from New York Times on the origin of the oft-cited "AP" report about the rebels and chemical weapons on The Lede blog.
 

Guileless

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Yes, read it on phone and could not link. I saw many references to that article in the various Syria threads, always with the AP used to lend credibility.
 

CHEEZMO™

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Jan 22, 2008
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Liger, you got any info on this Operation Nahrawan business? Sounds big if it is what they say.
 

liger05

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CHEEZMO™;83373585 said:
Liger, you got any info on this Operation Nahrawan business? Sounds big if it is what they say.

Its not happening is it? Jenan Moussa last night was tweeting that FSA leaders are split on whether to take on ISIS due to them being undergunned and wanting to give peace a chance.

I dont think it will end well. ISIS now know that certain FSA groups are coming for them so maybe they will take action themselves before this happens. The Fitna isnt good!!!

I saw earlier that ISIS released a statement trying to explain what happened in Azaz:

http://twitter.com/Islamic_States/status/382187363016773633/photo/1/large

On Wednesday, we purified the land from what is called Liwa Asifat al Shamal, which God wanted to expose them in front of everyone. These are some examples of their treason before and now:

1. They secured the departure of the Assad army and its tanks that were shelling civilians in Menagh military airbase (which fell after the ISIS sent suicide bombers to kill its defenders on August 5).

2. They called for rule other than what God has prescribed, through democracy, on their official websites.

3. They received Senator John McCain in 'the hangar' and they agreed with him to fight the Islamists.

4. They fought fiercely against Muslims to defend the German spy (presumably a German doctor who helped in medical aid) on Wednesday whose camera had images of the ISIS headquarters, their houses and their women

5. One of the prisoners from Asifat Al Ashamal revealed that the group worked with BlackWater, the anti-Islamic company.

6. A few spies were captured from Asifat al Shamal and we had evidence they worked with the American intelligence and this is documented in a video that we will release online soon.

7. They stole and robbed without distributing the goods on Muslims. They humiliated people although the goods belong to the people.

8. They suffocated people on Salama crossing by taking their money, harassing women and humiliating men.

Based on all that, our jihadi brothers fought them and expelled this criminal gang from Azaz because whoever aligns himself with the Americans will be with them.

We assure people that we are not interested in the border crossing or indeed anything else. We say to Asifat Al Shamal that the door for repentance is open and we have released 30 of their members after they repented and pledged that they will not fight Muslims again.

Anyone who comes to us to repent before we capture him, we accept his repentance. Or else we are determined to uproot them.

Now people are saying ISIS have violated the terms of the treaty which seemed to lead to the deceleration of 'Operation Nahrawan'. Remember this was the battle of when Ali fought the Kharijites so it seems that what the FSA are calling ISIS.

Big news from tonight is major armed groups have ignored the SNC and called for Sharia. I would like to see how any plan now constructed by KSA can work. They want to get a transitional government in place lead by the secularists.

Statement read out by leader of liwa al tawheed. A group who the secularists thought they could sway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj1bheERxzs&feature=youtu.be

Some of the groups who signed the statement

Liwaa al-Tawhid
Ahrar al-Sham
Jabhet al-Nusra
Liwaa al-Islam
Suqoor al-sham

They announce that the new government does not represent them. And any political group that does not operate inside Syria doesn't either

They call for all forces on the ground, military, political, and otherwise, to operate under Islamic constructs.

Is this the night where the notion that the SNC has any relevance to what goes on in Syria is dead? That Geneva 2 meeting is coming up and the armed factions that matter have told the political opposition that they don't represent them.
 

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan
Jan 22, 2008
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I think it just might. It's a realistic and understandable point to make, but I think it's the wrong decision. Could have some major long-term consequences.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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Rebel forces in Syria executed as many as 190 civilians in August

So are rebels still the good guys? This just reinforces the idea that there are no good guys in this conflict.

Let's moved beyond a framework of "good guys and bad guys." It sounds like you are just pushing shit to stir it up.
From your article:
HRW says about 20 opposition groups took part in the offensive and that five were involved in the attacks on civilians - the al-Nusra Front, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS), Jaysh al-Muhajirin wa al-Ansar, Ahrar al-Sham and Suqour al-Izz.

None are affiliated to the Western-backed Supreme Military Council of the Free Syrian Army, though SMC chief Gen Salim Idris did say at the time that fighters under his command participated in the assault.
There are other attacks "by the rebels" being investigated too. Look at the groups involved, and remember that Assad has still committed more murder, not that this justifies what you post or any other instance of these killings. It is a terrible situation, what solution can you offer?

The article also says there are 20 hostages still being held.
 

chico

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Apr 17, 2007
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no sympathy for the rebels as long as they continue to murder, kill and execute civilians. even woman and kids. disgusting scum no matter what they are fighting for.
 

GSG Flash

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Jul 7, 2004
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Let's moved beyond a framework of "good guys and bad guys." It sounds like you are just pushing shit to stir it up.
From your article:

There are other attacks "by the rebels" being investigated too. Look at the groups involved, and remember that Assad has still committed more murder, not that this justifies what you post or any other instance of these killings. It is a terrible situation, what solution can you offer?

The article also says there are 20 hostages still being held.

Don't see what the point of this post was, but ok? :/

And yes, the random "fact" you posted doesn't justify the killings, so why post it? Seems more like "trying to stir shit up" than what I said.
 
Oct 24, 2012
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Don't see what the point of this post was, but ok? :/

And yes, the random "fact" you posted doesn't justify the killings, so why post it? Seems more like "trying to stir shit up" than what I said.

I think his posts is infinitely better than yours seeing the fact that he posseses some kind of critical thinking while you clearly don't. You wish to set the conflict as a good/bad, white/black so that it fits nicely into whatever viewpoint you have on the conflict, the only problem being is that the world isn't simple like that.

That's why he posted it.

no sympathy for the regime soldiers as long as they continue to murder, kill and execute civilians. even woman and kids. disgusting scum no matter what they are fighting for.

Is this also valid ?

The most laughable thing about that is the guy sleeping. Its really that important that one of the guys decides to take a nap lol

Yeah to be honest it kinda looks like a joke. A PR show for the West so they can get some weapons or something to that effect.

Notice one of the last guys that speaks in dialect, cracking a joke and whatnot. Thought that was hilarious.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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Don't see what the point of this post was, but ok? :/

And yes, the random "fact" you posted doesn't justify the killings, so why post it? Seems more like "trying to stir shit up" than what I said.
My point is just that the opposition is a collection of groups that is loosely affiliated toward different aims. To say:
So are rebels still the good guys?

It rubs me the wrong way. Maybe its a personal issue or maybe it is something from your end that I misinterpreted, but either way considering the rebels as a singular entity is misinformed and the root of my accusation that with this broad brush you intended to mix that shit color, so to speak.

What solution to this terrible situation can you imagine?
 
Jun 7, 2013
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Don't see what the point of this post was, but ok? :/

And yes, the random "fact" you posted doesn't justify the killings, so why post it? Seems more like "trying to stir shit up" than what I said.

Yeah that random fact. All you need to know is the name of the operation. What where the 20 terrorist groups liberating the land from? Apparently religious minorities.

They killed all the men and put all the women (separating them from their children) onto buses. If the women resist getting raped by the terrorists then the terrorists will kill their children. Just another kill, rape, and pillage operation by the thug terrorist "rebels" who now are gonna use shia women as comfort women.

It makes me sick that their are people that actively support al-queda and Saudi Arabia wahhabi salifism on this board.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
Jul 7, 2004
14,838
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I think his posts is infinitely better than yours seeing the fact that he posseses some kind of critical thinking while you clearly don't. You wish to set the conflict as a good/bad, white/black so that it fits nicely into whatever viewpoint you have on the conflict, the only problem being is that the world isn't simple like that.

I don't know who you are and you don't know me, so I don't appreciate your ad hominem attack(which I'm guessing was because you can't control your emotions). Refrain from it if you wish to be taken seriously. Otherwise you can continue, I don't mind adding someone new to my ignore list.

For the record, I, unlike you, don't wish to set the conflict as anything as I think both sides are bad. It is hard for any side that is supported by Iran and especially Saudi Arabia to be anything but.

My point is just that the opposition is a collection of groups that is loosely affiliated toward different aims. To say:


It rubs me the wrong way. Maybe its a personal issue or maybe it is something from your end that I misinterpreted, but either way considering the rebels as a singular entity is misinformed and the root of my accusation that with this broad brush you intended to mix that shit color, so to speak.

What solution to this terrible situation can you imagine?

The thing is, the rebels themselves portray themselves as a single entity. As much as you and the west want to separate JAN from the FSA or whatever other moderate rebel group there is, it's just not possible. If the rebels do somehow manage to eek out a victory in Syria(which I doubt they will), it will be JAN calling the shots because they're the ones who have the big guns, so to speak.

What is the solution to the conflict? As much as I would like there to be a diplomatic solution, I don't think it's possible, or atleast not until one or both of the two sides concedes their position. As it is right now, only a total military victory can end this war.

For the record, I support a democratic secular Syria, just not a rebellion that's backed by the Saudis.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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I don't know who you are and you don't know me, so I don't appreciate your ad hominem attack(which I'm guessing was because you can't control your emotions). Refrain from it if you wish to be taken seriously. Otherwise you can continue, I don't mind adding someone new to my ignore list.

For the record, I, unlike you, don't wish to set the conflict as anything as I think both sides are bad. It is hard for any side that is supported by Iran and especially Saudi Arabia to be anything but.



The thing is, the rebels themselves portray themselves as a single entity. As much as you and the west want to separate JAN from the FSA or whatever other moderate rebel group there is, it's just not possible. If the rebels do somehow manage to eek out a victory in Syria(which I doubt they will), it will be JAN calling the shots because they're the ones who have the big guns, so to speak.

What is the solution to the conflict? As much as I would like there to be a diplomatic solution, I don't think it's possible, or atleast not until one or both of the two sides concedes their position. As it is right now, only a total military victory can end this war.

For the record, I support a democratic secular Syria, just not a rebellion that's backed by the Saudis.
Do the rebels portray themselves as a single entity? Maybe you are in contact with all the people on the ground, but I doubt it.
Al-Qaida leader Ayman al-Zawahri has told the Islamist militants who are some of Syria's toughest opposition forces to avoid alliances with other rebel fighters backed by Gulf Arab states and the West.

His comment reflects a deepening rift between groups of the Western- and Arab-backed Free Syrian Army (FSA) and guerrillas sympathetic to Zawahri's ultra hardline network, which seeks to wage a transnational armed campaign against the West.

Division among rebel fighters, as well as the influence of hardline Islamists, is one reason Western powers have hesitated to intervene in Syria's two-and-a-half-year-old conflict, in which more than 100,000 people have been killed.
source

There is this Newyorker article too that has been posted.

The outfit’s main selling point appears to be that, as opposed to the more effective fighting forces in Syria, the Free Syrian Army is not technically al-Qaeda. But what is the Free Syrian Army, really? No two analysts have the same answer. To some, the Free Syrian Army is the group that sent a spokesperson to tell the world that it was preparing an ethnic cleansing program targeting Shia Muslims and Alawites. Among warmongers, especially American "neocons" such as Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and the Obama administration, the FSA is touted as a heroic organization that should be propped up even more heavily than it is — even after McCain’s “moderate” FSA rebels turned out to be kidnappers. To others, the “army” is really an “army in name only.”

Virtually everyone agrees, however, that it is dominated by Islamists, including the Muslim Brotherhood and various other hardline Salafist groups known for violently seeking sharia law and strict enforcement of their interpretation of Islamic doctrine. In December of 2012, Reuters, among numerous other establishment sources, reported that the Free Syrian Army had chosen a leader for its new “Islamist-dominated command.” At a meeting in Turkey attended by hundreds of rebel leaders, Western officials, and representatives of Gulf Arab autocracies, a new 30-member “Supreme Military Council” packed with Muslim radicals was selected.

Despite official Western claims about the Free Syrian Army, even Reuters admitted that the make-up of the outfit was dominated by Islamists. “The unified command includes many with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and to Salafists, who follow a puritanical interpretation of Islam,” the news service reported. Incredibly, the supposed “army” was widely touted in the establishment press and among Western officials as the “moderate” alternative simply because known al-Qaeda fronts were not invited to participate in the meeting. Shortly after the selection of leaders, the Syrian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood demanded that the “international community” immediately “fulfill its obligations” and provide more weapons to the FSA.
source

The Saudis are a mixed group too, they are not backing all the rebel factions, and the "hotel revolutionaries" in Turkey have less sway with the collection of fighters in opposition to the regime than the leaders on the front-lines that are in control of arms and supplies. These rebels within Syria are fighting and dying together, what do you think that does to people? Its not making them all radicals but they will loosely band together out of necessity. You are free to believe what you want but it is much more complicated than you come across, than I could ever come across.


For the record, I, unlike you, don't wish to set the conflict as anything as I think both sides are bad
Good and bad exist within everything, they are constructs.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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What is the difference between a wahhabi salifi terrorist group backed by the west and saudi arabia vs a wahhabi salifi terrorist group that isn't backed by the west and saudi arabia? Do some of you really think that one of them is more likely to love gay people, keep current Syrian laws about womens rights, not bulldoze schools that teach science, not commit genocide against minorities?

The fact is 20 of the biggest rebel groups PLANNED an ethnic massacre in which they killed all the men and put all the women on a bus for a much worse future of rape and death. To then say "oh no it was some bad apples" is to excuse the terrorists of their crimes!
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
Jul 7, 2004
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Do the rebels portray themselves as a single entity? Maybe you are in contact with all the people on the ground, but I doubt it.


There is this Newyorker article too that has been posted.



The Saudis are a mixed group too, they are not backing all the rebel factions, and the "hotel revolutionaries" in Turkey have less sway with the collection of fighters in opposition to the regime than the leaders on the front-lines that are in control of arms and supplies. These rebels within Syria are fighting and dying together, what do you think that does to people? Its not making them all radicals but they will loosely band together out of necessity. You are free to believe what you want but it is much more complicated than you come across, than I could ever come across.



Good and bad exist within everything, they are constructs.

They(the rebels), and the media and a lot of the rebel supporters here, certainly do portray themselves as a single entity when they make gains in Syria. However, as soon as some of the rebel factions show their true colours, like in that massacre in Latakia, suddenly now the rebels are different factions, each doing their own thing.

In liger's own word, "ISIS, JAN, Ansar Al Sham" were the main rebel forces leading the attack in Latakia, yet their victory was claimed by all rebels and their supporters. That's the reason I use the same brush on all the rebel factions, you have to take the good with the bad, otherwise it's just hypocrisy.

I mean you did exactly the same thing earlier that you're taking slight to me doing:

Assad has still committed more murder

So why don't you separate Assad from any commander or battalion that may have gone rogue?

I agree with your last statement however.

I don't think I have any need to continue. Partial Gamification is doing a great job refuting you're arguments very well himself. Have a nice day.

What arguments? I'm not trying to make any arguments(not as if you would have the ability to refute any anyways). We're having a discussion as a result of something I said in my earlier post that Partial Gamification took slight to(which was a rhetorical question in response to what a lot of posters here portray the rebels as). There's no place for the hit and run comments you're making, it doesn't add anything to the discussion.

I don't know what your problem is. I always thought you were a reasonable, level headed guy, but you're just acting like an ass.

What is the difference between a wahhabi salifi terrorist group backed by the west and saudi arabia vs a wahhabi salifi terrorist group that isn't backed by the west and saudi arabia? Do some of you really think that one of them is more likely to love gay people, keep current Syrian laws about womens rights, not bulldoze schools that teach science, not commit genocide against minorities?

The fact is 20 of the biggest rebel groups PLANNED an ethnic massacre in which they killed all the men and put all the women on a bus for a much worse future of rape and death. To then say "oh no it was some bad apples" is to excuse the terrorists of their crimes!

Exactly, if you're gonna claim the victories made by those bad apples, you have to claim their atrocities as well.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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So why don't you separate Assad from any commander or battalion that may have gone rogue?

Have rogue elements in the regime been identified and prosecuted by the Assad's government? Are Shabiha prosecuted? Is Quds influence acknowledged? The reason why the crimes of the regime are his, is that the subordinates are acting under command or there are rogue agents acting on their own and receiving a blind eye from the institution charged with protecting people. The Sunni extremists are cut from some of the most ass-backward ideas that still survive in our World, in my opinion. They are pawns for larger political ambitions that I find disrespectful toward the Syrian population, but I'm not trying to speak for them.

Maybe it is my American naivete, by virtue of the West's filtered information and my own experiential biases, that has me feel the Assad regime has failed his people. I am not Syrian and so this is a relatively meaningless observation from the outside.
 
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