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Take Two "burning cash at an alarming rate".. GTA4 expected Fall 2007

A

argon

Member
Sorry if this is old..

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=AP&Date=20060127&ID=5454944

Take Two shares fell almost 19% today because of an analyst downgrade. But the most interesting part of the article was this:

Banc of America said it expects Grand Theft Auto Next to be launched later than it expected, with the release now seen in the fall of 2007. Banc of America also said the company is burning cash "at an alarming rate," and cash levels could approach $75 million by spring.

The brokerage firm said it has less conviction now regarding the company's ability to release games in a timely fashion, and lowered its fiscal 2006 earnings-per-share estimate to 59 cents from 80 cents. Banc of America's price target went to $12 from $17.
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Fall 2007? Well I don't think this comes as much of a surprise..

The article also mentions a possible SEC investigation, leading to a board member resigning yesterday.. I wonder what that's all about?

The company has stirred controversy with allegations that pornographic images were embedded in the game "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas," causing investigations by the Federal Trade Commission. The company announced board member Barbara Kaczynski resigned on Wednesday, citing an "unhealthy" relationship between senior management and the board.

Banc Of America raised concerns about the wording in her note filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and said it believes the company could be further investigated.
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edit: For anyone whose interested, I found more info on Kaczynski's departure..
http://www.investors.com/breakingnews.asp?journalid=34269804&brk=1
Board games: Take-Two (TTWO) issued a press release about changes in its board. A few analysts even regurgitated the company's comments. But as is often the case, investors ought to read the 8-K SEC filing for the rest of the story, most notably the circumstances surrounding the resignation of board member Barbara Kaczynski, chairman of the company's audit committee and the former CFO of the National Football League. A letter to the board from her attorney, Bruce Baird -- a noted white-collar defense attorney -- says she left because she was concerned about a number of issues, including "various SEC inquiries directed at Take-Two and its employees."

Furthermore, she said, her concerns rose "significantly" as the company prepared its delayed 10-K, "because of what she views as an increasingly unhealthy relationship between senior management and the board of directors. In her experience, management's interactions with the board were characterized by a lack of cooperation and respect. Moreover, Ms. Kaczynski felt the management failed to keep the board informed of important issues facing the company or failed to do so in a timely fashion." (Sort of speaks for itself.)
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D

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Folks we may be on the verge of seeing a company crash and burn from the heights of popularity to the pits of hell right in front of our very eyes!
 
A

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
It would be ironic if they had a financial downfall after having the most successful franchise this generation.
 
G

Gio_CoD

Banned
You know you're in bad shape when the owner of your credit line starts announcing release dates for your biggest game.
 
D

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
AdmiralViscen said:
Why is Take Two stumbling? I haven't been paying attention.
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They really only have one franchise. If you are careful with your money, I think you can make it like that, especially with one so successful, but buying the MS sports games and VC was a gamble. Also, have we heard ANYTHING about Bully? They desperately need to get a new franchise so they can bring in big money all year.
 
D

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Excellent... all-is a-going according to plan.

(Interior lights flash, revealing a cackling man, dressed in red and sporting a mustache.)
 
S

SKOPE

Member
How much money did Take Two pay for an exclusive Major League Baseball license that isn't even exclusive?

Seriously, did Take Two executives know anything about sports game economics before they decided to jump into the market? I honestly don't think they did.

And for what it's worth, I saw an AO-rated copy of San Andreas (PS2) at the Virgin Mega Store in Chicago.
 
J

Jerkface

Banned
How the fuck have they managed that?

I guess the release date of the next GTA has been mentioned as that will be the next time they are guaranteed a fat profit income.
 
B

B E N K E

Member
It's certainly a worrying sign, but unlike say Eidos that went crazy in the same way with the money from Tomb Raider, Take Two has invested the GTA money to try and broaden their business. Of course, the 2K Sports studios and licenses have cost them a lot of money but buying Firaxis and Irrational Games makes sense.
 
R

railGUN

Banned
What I find most disturbing, is the connection between this and the hot coffee mod. Hidden code, unattainable without 3rd party software and homebrew hacks depicting consenting adults dry-humping in a mature rated game should not bring down a company. It's a sad, sad day...
 
D

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
railGUN said:
What I find most disturbing, is the connection between this and the hot coffee mod. Hidden code, unattainable without 3rd party software and homebrew hacks depicting consenting adults dry-humping in a mature rated game should not bring down a company. It's a sad, sad day...
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See, I'd say it was a sad, sad day when video game makers had to resort to even MORE outlandish content in order to sell quality game play. I am, however, a minority in these parts.

(Although I've often wondered where the distinction is between creating a game that doesn't shield the player from stupidity (and thus allows any action) and one that panders to such things lies. That's another thought for another time, though.)
 
D

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
Alucard said:
Bah. The sooner the GTA franchise dies, the better. Stop the thug crap please.
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GTA will find another publisher, guaranteed... The only thing is, Take Two was kind of seen as sort of a counterbalance to EA... not quite yet on the same level, but they were like the only ones who could get up there. Who will fill in that role now?
 
A

AdmiralViscen

Banned
DavidDayton said:
See, I'd say it was a sad, sad day when video game makers had to resort to even MORE outlandish content in order to sell quality game play. I am, however, a minority in these parts.
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Hot Coffee was not a selling point.
 
S

Servizio

I don't really need a tag, but I figured I'd get one to make people jealous. Is it working?
Ohhh, it's going to be one juicy tell-all that documents the rise and fall of Take Two.
 
L

Last Hope

Member
I have heard that Take Two would have gone under if it wasn't for GTA3. Supposedly their prior games did not sell well. Now that they got slapped in the wrist for GTA:SA, it may have hurt them bad if their other games are not selling well. Jus think, they are living at a high expense because they expect to rake in big profits off the anual GTA. If that gets disrupted, then there is hell to pay.
 
D

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
djtiesto said:
GTA will find another publisher, guaranteed... The only thing is, Take Two was kind of seen as sort of a counterbalance to EA... not quite yet on the same level, but they were like the only ones who could get up there. Who will fill in that role now?
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Not quite. Activision and THQ are closer to EA than Take Two.

Also, I don't think this has much to do with Hot Coffee. I know I read here a couple of years ago that analysts were cautioning Take Two, saying they needed to diversify their library. I mean, they have all these studios and pretty much just one product that brings in money. So why are all these other people getting paid?
 
B

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
I only swing the banstick on the usual gang of idiots who whine about thug culture, then turn mysteriously quiet when I ask where their concern was during GTA 3 and Vice City. As for the rest of 'em...these are the same Mensa candidates who claimed Vice City wouldn't outsell GTA 3, and San Andreas wouldn't outsell Vice City due to the series being "played out". :lol

This generation's signature game - and there's nothing the haters can do about it.
 
DCharlie

DCharlie

Banned
In its recent financial results call, the company did not promptly release full results for the year, hinting that timely filing might be an issue.

Though Take-Two partially blamed the Sarbanes-Oxley Act for increasing difficulty of filing results, it seems that the lack of timely filing was largely due to an inventory management system change related to Take-Two's Jack Of All Games distribution arm that "didn't go as well as planned".
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SOX is a pain in the arse - but... you have to laugh that a company with T2's history has issues with something that "... covers issues such as establishing a public company accounting oversight board, auditor independence, corporate responsibility and enhanced financial disclosure."

Also, SOX wouldn't not explain previous issues - This isn't the first time T2 has had run ins with SEC !

2000-2001 financial results not accurate
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=pub&aid=9442

2002 accounting principles not accurate
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_zd1up/is_200312/ai_ziff114895

i have a feeling they late filed in 2003 or 2004 as well - not sure whch.
 
C

Catchpenny

Member
bishoptl said:
As for the rest of 'em...these are the same Mensa candidates who claimed Vice City wouldn't outsell GTA 3, and San Andreas wouldn't outsell Vice City due to the series being "played out".
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But San Andreas hasn't outsold Vice City. :p Though it certainly deserves to.

Anyhow, the GTA series is awesome...doesn't mean I have to like Take Two.
 
S

Syb

Member
How much would it cost Microsoft to add Rockstar to MGS? :)

(Who else could afford them if Take2 went under? EA?)
 
S

sonycowboy

Member
Catchpenny said:
But San Andreas hasn't outsold Vice City. :p Though it certainly deserves to.

Anyhow, the GTA series is awesome...doesn't mean I have to like Take Two.
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It's done quite well. It's at 6.4M when you add up the PS2 + Xbox + Special Editions and it hasn't hit greatest hits yet, and it got pulled off of shelves for 3 months. It is still ahead of GTA:VC's curve of sales, but has been hit hard because of the pullback in retail support. I'd say it has maybe another million in sales ahead of it, with greatest hits and continued Xbox sales.

Of course, GTA:VC has done 8.8M when you add in PS2 + (Xbox + PS2 Double Packs).
 
R

Ranger X

Member
And how the fuck the possible fall of Take Two is in any way related to the fall of GTA????
You haters didn't think ANY publisher would DIE to have GTA under their belt?

And i'm also in the crowd that shows you the middle finger about your prejudices against this incredible game.
 
E

eshwaaz

Member
Grug said:
I suppose so, but 90 percent of the buying audience buys it for the thug component.
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I think that's the perception of the general non-gaming public, but I also think that it's nonsense. The appeal for most gamers lies in the free-roaming, open-ended gameplay, atmosphere, story and satire... IMO, of course. Absolutely no one I know enjoys the series for its "thugness".
 
L

lightcrisprefreshing

Member
I see MS, Sony and EA going crazy trying to aquire the rights to GTA and RockStar North (I think MS beats sony and EA for it) Maybe they even go after Midnight Club and RS San Diego(?). It would be intresting to see what would happen if they do go under, what would happen to VC and 2k sports? Will EA try to pick it up and have an OMG sports monopoly (say bye bye to any kind of quality sports game) or would others go after it, maybe MS?
 
O

outunderthestars

Banned
I think that's the perception of the general non-gaming public, but I also think that it's nonsense. The appeal for most gamers lies in the free-roaming, open-ended gameplay, atmosphere, story and satire... IMO, of course. Absolutely no one I know enjoys the series for its "thugness".
Click to expand...

QFT
 
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