1.) They never labeled him a Nazi.
2.) Millennials don't read the damn WSJ. They can't even be bothered to read GAF threads.
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Talk about double standards (Wall Street Journal vs. PewDiePie)
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1.) They never labeled him a Nazi.
2.) Millennials don't read the damn WSJ. They can't even be bothered to read GAF threads.
EatinOlives
Member
Thread title was right after all lol
And if we're going to discuss context, we cannot ignore the context of Rowling's very vocal anti-alt-right stance on Twitter, and then she happens to be the person PDP singles-out here, or more likely, the person PDP's linked-to-sources singled-out for him.
Wait when did PDP become a comedian? Last I checked, he had no idea how to correctly craft a joke or create context for any crude humor. Does saying stupid, provocative shit followed by "lolz jk" make people comedians now?
DevilDog
Member
I doubt that '"many'' people would think that he is an anti-semite because of his defence. The majority of people would've gotten that idea because of the title of the article.
I mean, one of his best friends parents, who are Jewish, demanded explanations because they genuinely though he was an anti-semite. His friend that knew him well enough had to explain to them how he was not.
It's sad, but people usually read titles and that's it. Then word travels, and since quite a lot of people already nurture some hate or dislike PDP, they are more prone to accept that he is an anti-semite and things get even worse. And the press knows this. PDP knows this and it's why he chose to make the video in my opinion.
Should PDP accept the crazy things the press did, even if they are not true and move on? Maybe, even if that would've been unfair. He chose however to apologize for his faults and call the press out at the same time which I don't think is wrong at it's core. The press isn't immune to criticism. The have power and responsibilities as well.
What I consider extreme however is how that behavior paints him as an anti-semite to you and other people here. I genuinely have a hard time discussing and understanding some things here because it really feels like I'm in a different reality sometimes.
How about the fact the WSJ never called PewDiePie a nazi?
Do you people just believe anything PDP says and never do any actual research yourself?
PDP claims the WSJ called them a Nazi. They didn't. You want to know something that IS true? PDP thanked a rabid anti-semetic racist Sargo for his support. Mr. Innocent PDP is embracing the support of actual REAL neo-nazi's.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
There's comedy in Rowling's books too, I guess that means she has full reign to say whatever she wants about PDP then right?
gow3isben
Member
Ok your bias isn't showing at all.
I don't think he is all that funny too but fact is millions of people do. He IS a comedian factually but not an amazing one.
Be careful about this; I've seen YouTubers flip-flop on labels to avoid responsibilities. Amateur and professional as they find convenient.
Let him be a professional comedian so that he'll be the same standard of quality as other professional comedians. If he decides to be a news outlet, let him be held to the same standards. Don't let him cop out and call himself an octopus when he wants to escape.
I've already explained to you why what you have written is all bullshit.
WHY DID YOU IGNORE IT and then go onto write this screed.
She never attacked PDP or said anything about him. She linked to an article about fascism. Of which PDP has associated himself with with his alingment and public emrbacing of neo-nazi's like Sargon. JK Rowling didn't give any sort of opinion on PDP.
Can anyone with a straight face say PDP isn't aligning himself with alt-right fascists? He is thanking leaders of that movement for their support on his videos for christs sake.
Just to confirm: you chose to end that sentence with a period instead of a question mark because you actually know the answer, right?
He's sarcastically dismissing the notion that intending to be funny gives you carte blanche to say anything you want.
haha. Yeah, I meant to end with a question, but your point is well taken.
As Makonero has said, he's turned this into a us vs them mentality which has been demonstrated countless times in this thread and elsewhere with people saying he has "turned the tide". "owned her" and "won". People are seeking validation out of this, so at some level they must find this distressing. This isn't a surprise, Yotubers do have fan followings and communities built around sharing the same values. PDP has a younger fan audience too. It's a shame that some people don't have the objectivity to observe criticism of their idols and not react emotionally to it. They see the criticism of PDP to be a criticism on themselves and the community; they are no longer individuals and instead group think is prominent.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
It could also be a sign of the backfire effect in action. When people are cornered or feel assaulted, what happens often is that their mind shuts down as they become defensive. Then they double down on a previous held belief.
I think a lot of us here have had experiences with friends and family who did or said something dumb or very insensitive, were not quick to apologize or admit their mistake when they were shamed, ridiculed or threatened indirectly or psychologically. It's not a good strategy for making people, not do what you don't want them to do.
Now you might say that that, that is different because PDP is a public figure with a large audience and platform, and therefore the escalation as it has unfolded is valid. Maybe that is true, but regardless I don't think Felix or many young males who are interested or embedded in internet culture (movies, games, anime, general internet) are open to that responsibility.
I suspect that there is something generational going on, but I also think that with gamers in particular you get a subset stereotype of young men and teenagers who are loners, isolated and who are at an exposed risk for being prone to anger. I think you have a higher statistical likelihood of finding predisposed individuals in gaming culture than in other hobbies that are more social, who ultimately are easier prey on conservative, alt-right and far-right ideology. These are not the winners who got laid in high school. Lots of overweight, low self esteem people who draw themselves into virtual worlds. A stereotype that doesn't fit many, but I do believe there is a larger subset of these types of stereotype male youths than in other cultures like sports jocks, or people who party a lot.
What can end up happening when you drag someone through a shaming or ridicule machine, is that the target can double down on previous held beliefs. It's sometimes called cognitive dissonance, or the backfire effect. Or confirmation bias. Even in the face of logical argument and sensible facts, people will refuse to change their opinion, and in fact, they will get more embolden in their previously held beliefs. You see this in many cases. Anti-vaccine or climate change deniers. These people feel prosecuted, assaulted and hunted, and because of that they are unable to internally realize, verify and come to facts because they take the tone against them so serious, that they are unable to look at this beyond an emotional level. They see everything in anger, and they become further radicalized.
It's for this reason that I don't think the current "white privilege shaming" smug liberal bonanza helps young men come to some sort of acceptence, reflection, apology and the most important; a changed behavioral state that stops them from doing that again.
Do I think it is unreasonable to escalate your anger all the way to alt-right town? You bet I do. I think many young people have a weaker emotional (and spoiled) compas, as well as lacking critical thinking skills. It shouldn't be this way, but I think there is enough a plethora of drama that shows us, that antagonizes them, ridiculing them and shitting on them through humiliation brings out the worst in them. I think we, as liberals have completely underestimated just how much people double down in anger and hate when they are called out.
I am not a psychologist, but if someone here is, maybe they can tell me, what a chief strategy is to create a rudimentary change in a persons core physiology. Nothing in my life experience have told me that this sort of antics is a sound strategy for making them stop what they are doing.
Of course, as another poster said in the other thread; "I don't care if they stop doing it. I just want them to pay for their actions and suffer the consequences". That of course is a different matter entirely and in terms of making them pay, I guess escalating this as far as it can will probably be exciting to those who revel in it. I suspect that people on their side, hope that someone like Peter Tiel will interfere in all and escalate things further on their side as well.
It is difficult to say what Felix meant initially. But I feel that, Jew jokes, holocaust jokes and nazi and adolf hitler jokes are one of the most common "socially accepted" jokes you see on the internet. It feels like to me that up until the last few months, "I didn't nazi that coming" type puns and all that crap, was everywhere on social media, reddit, imgur, 9gag, buzzfeed. Normalized to the point where I don't remember anybody batting an eye about it.
I believe the tone has changed a lot since Trumps election, and PewDiePie is one of the people who gets the axe for saying something that didn't seem to create a lot of tension just a few months ago.
And there is a logic to this. When Obama was in office and the tone was very different not many people had a lot of reasons to be upset. But because of the actual rise of nationalism and anti-semitism suddenly exploding, it does make sense that people become extremely sensitive to it. And I don't think that is bad. I think it's a sign of a collective good health when a global change can come so fast and priorities can change over the span of a few months.
I don't think PDP ever in his wildest dreams expected this would backfire.
I think the situation is sad. It is difficult to look at someone killing everything they've build p because of their own pride. The expression "Never make important decision when you're angry" is very true. You're not rational or functional when you are pissed. Felix is going to lose everything, but he might also through his own experience have made many people belief in the alt-right movement through seeing their idol go through this, and it saddens me that the alt-right will be further strengthened through this experience.
If someone had calmly told him after the video that it was uncool and someones were very distressed and offended by it, is it possible that he would have apologized and that would have been the end of it? PDP is a public person, but he doesn't seem able to handle the responsibility or the weight of what that means. Both in terms of his influence and reach but also in even realizing what he is doing. I doubt he has media training at all, because this is a disaster.
One dude said he watched Sargon's videos and could find no evidence that he was bigoted, so it's fine.
I believe I've seen some "PewDiePie probably just thanked some guy who supported him and doesn't know what his channel is about".
To which I would counter "at no point have I cared what his intentions are; I care that he is promoting harmful messages, and he is doing that by promoting this channel".
Was going off the video... It appears this never happened so I stand corrected.
Yes, he was just giving credit for using clips of a Sargon video. We just pretend like he absolutely had no choice but to source from that video and link his 50m subs to a psychopath
Yellowflashdude
Member
PewDiePie seems like that washed up Disney star desperately trying to get away from his current demographic of fans by going to the other extreme.
So you took his word for it over the word of the WSJ initially, may I ask why?
You are going off a video in which he also thanked a well known anti-semitic white nationalist neo-nazi for having his back. That should be a giant red flag for anyone.
Dont you feel even the slightest hint of shame and/or self doubt for so glibly handing over the formation of your OWN opinion to a third party?
Honestly thought he wouldn't be bold enough to outright make up something like that.
As for your second question, I may have seen a video of his once but I have no idea who he is/what he stands for, so if what you are saying is true... Yeah, not the best person to call in for backup.
For the record, I actually kinda can't stand PDP, but as with every story there are three sides. Just wanted to have a better understanding of the situation.
PDP the new Fergie?
You really don't understand the context? He was running on the fact that something online shouldn't necessarily be taken at face value. Reading, or seeing something doesn't make it true. How can you honestly be blind to that? He made it incredibly clear that that was the point he was making.
If some of his audience is unable to see something that's staring them straight in the face, that isn't on him.
As for the journalist in question. If he believes Pewdiepie's videos should put him under scrutiny then so should his tweets. It doesn't make either party look any better. I think that's the point here. That the people trying to pull him down are just like him. Not some figures of hate, but normal people who, perhaps misguidedly, say offensive things from time to time.
No thanks to the OP for not actually adding all the available information. But we all know where OP's sympathies lie.
EatinOlives
Member
The only thing they can muster up is "he's just, like, citing his sources mang!"
King of Custard
Member
Glibly? How is waiting for a factual breakdown handing my opinion to anyone, you realize everybody who reads anything written by anybody else forms an opinion on it?
I'll wait for you to respond with your opinion of what I've wrote.
It absolutely is. He has a responsibility to his 50 million viewers to be clear and not invite anger or hatred at those who don't deserve it. Why hasn't he denounced this yet? Why the silence?
He did this on purpose with a wink so that his viewers would pick up on it and attack someone who dared criticize him. It gives him deniability while still leveraging his power to attack those who don't bow down.
Here's Vox's explainer:
http://www.vox.com/culture/2017/2/17/14613234/pewdiepie-nazi-satire-alt-right
ClosingADoor
Member
How can you and PDP honestly be so blind that you don't understand how his fanbase will react when fueled by him like this? He is calling out Rowling for NO reason. The only thing she did was link to an article. That is it. Nothing more. Yet he makes her out to be one of the bad guys in his video, complete with a photoshop of her in a nazi uniform.
I don't think I'm blind to the context. I just see one step ahead and understand how a video like that can impact a mostly young audience that holds PDP as their idol and see that as a sign to attack her.
I have not mentioned the journalist in this thread, so I don't know why you are including that in your response to me. Two wrongs don't make a right anyway.
No.
This entire time people have been saying the media have a responsibility to be super crystal clear in terms of reporting on the potentially racist actions of people because readers may just take broad statements and titles at face value and assume someone is racist when they're not.
But when PDP actually makes up shit in order to torturously illustrate a point and people take it at face value to go harass someone, suddenly he's not responsible for his own content, and the harassers' actions are their own for not understanding the context of the video?
Are you fucking serious?
Yes, glibly, as in "often thoughtlessly". You literally wrote that you were too stupid to form your own opinion, there are plentiful primary sources for both sides, more than enough to form one's own opinion. That you feel the need to wait for someone to break it down into more easily digestible chunks, and are happy to proclaim so, simply strikes me as sad. As for my opinion about what you wrote? That benefit of the doubt aside you were apparently right to wait for someone to explain it to you in a manner you can understand.
Iva Demilcol
Member
But it is. He knows exactly how the internet works, he knows he has 50+ millions who support him. He has said several times that old media is becoming irrelevant because they don't have the audience he has... And what does he do with that? He goes and tell his audience: "these people want to take me down" and since he is their "bro", some members of his audience are fighting the good fight for him. He's not saying anything against this behaviour either, my only hope is that once his anger passes he calls out his own fanbase, because if he's okay with online harassment that's actually much worse than what I thought.
King of Custard
Member
Read what I wrote again, read it very slowly.
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