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[Blizzard]

maybe even worse since getting them the non-paying way is a retardingly long grind

If you mean the new hats for set bonuses, or name tags, or paint, then sure. If you mean weapons, not really. I traded for the new medic saw and new gloves (and then got gloves myself so I gave the old ones back). I still need the rocket jumper, and as far as I know, no one has the frying pan yet. Other than that, I went from before the update:

Second page: http://www.abload.de/img/backpack_2tr1r.jpg

To after the update, and a couple of days of playing/trading:

Second page: http://www.abload.de/img/backpack_4eq5i.jpg

I think I even gave away a $10 hat in exchange for a $5 hat because I liked the $5 one better! :O Of course, I've played like 800+ hours of TF2 and only sat on an idle server for a couple of days when there was no non-random way to get the new spy/sniper weapons, if I recall correctly, so people who don't play much won't have as many weapons to craft.

I don't know, I was doing 40+ damage at range pretty consistently last night with the Peppergun. Seems a bit OP on servers that aren't running no-spread. Also what's the point of the Holy Mackeral? It seems to be a strictly cosmetic upgrade, but I don't want to play TF2 a few years from now and have all the scouts trying to smack people with a fish.

Sounds like someone's been FISH KILL'd too many times. ;p

I like the new scout gun and new sniper rifle since they seem like they may be better for bad players. I am usually very bad at getting headshots and aiming scout guns, as far as I know, so weapons that cater to my lack of skill may be more enjoyable to me, or actually help me get better. Who knows!

Fuck team scramble/auto team balance, it always splits up me and my buddies.

:lol Yeah, that's...kind of the point. That's also why it's hilarious (and sometimes effective) to do a team scramble right AFTER everyone picks their teams, but before the map starts. It means the groups of people who join to pubstomp/play together/whatever may have their plans thwarted, and if they rage or try to switch to spectator to restack then they become somewhat obvious.

 

[Visualante]

I know they are rare. I'm just wondering if they have any value. If nobody wants them, they're just regular items, since the only real difference is a bigger number.

Yes, the MMO economies prove it. Is it worth giving a fuck over? No because unlike MMO economies the item's do not have any value besides being able to show it off and by keeping it limited to 4 items per trade you can't safely trade it for any vast treasure of items safely.

Just got a mackeral via the server gift box but I can't trade it to my housemate for his birthday because of some stupid rule Valve made up. I don't even play scout so I pretty much just have to delete it.

 

[Stallion Free]

Just got a mackeral via the server gift box but I can't trade it to my housemate for his birthday because of some stupid rule Valve made up. I don't even play scout so I pretty much just have to delete it.

Did you look into the future and see that you would never for 1 second be interested in playing a scout with the fish? Why the hell would you just delete something.

 

[overthehill99]

I have so many doubles of weapons, but don't want to craft them for scrap metal yet, because then I would lose both weapons. I wait until I have three of the same weapon to craft 2 of them.

I've played the game for over 40 hours, and have had 2 triples, which means I now have 2 scrap metal, and zero hats.

 

[Visualante]

Did you look into the future and see that you would never for 1 second be interested in playing a scout with the fish? Why the hell would you just delete something.

Dude I crafted a Texas Ten Gallon and a Vintage Merryweather just to piss people off who want those hats. I don't give a fuck about these items and am sensing the end of my Team Fortress 2 addiction.

 

[Boonoo]

Heee. I just got a Towering Pillar of Hats from a random gift. I hope gifts can be traded later.

 

[Drkirby]

I know they are rare. I'm just wondering if they have any value. If nobody wants them, they're just regular items, since the only real difference is a bigger number.

I think you are going to have a far smaller group of people who care about items with odd levels, since the feature was taken out pretty quickly, and its not that easy to tell. I really think half the reason people want the Vintage Weapons is thinking "Well, I already have 90% of them, might as well try to get the last few."

I think I even gave away a $10 hat in exchange for a $5 hat because I liked the $5 one better!

This kind of thinking has to stop fast, as this is what will ruin trading if it become wide spread.

Just got a mackeral via the server gift box but I can't trade it to my housemate for his birthday because of some stupid rule Valve made up. I don't even play scout so I pretty much just have to delete it.

You have 200 item slots, just stick it on the last page, maybe in 20 years when Valve has realized they don't have to make a TF3 and can just keep making money off of $.25 Mann Co. keys you will want to play Scout.

I really hope gifts will become ether gift able or craft able. In the mean time, I put all my gifts in their own special spot in my backpack, Page 2 with my hats and badges.

 

[Blizzard]

This kind of thinking has to stop fast, as this is what will ruin trading if it become wide spread.

Well that's the point, I didn't think about it! I ignored market prices! I was a CRAZY CONSUMER

 

[Wthermans]

The only items you could get from achievements milestones were the official, Valve created items.

The last patch introduced community items (the Soldier/Demoman's Pain Train, Pyro's Sledgehamer, Scout's Crit-A-Cola, among others), which could not be gotten by achievements. Only way you could get them was either crafting them or randomly dropping them.

This time around, more community items. Only way you can get them is either crafting them, randomly dropping them OR buying them.

I'd like to understand why more options == worst scenario. Because that's what everybody is complaining about.

More items only available through crafting/drops=bad IMO I would have liked to see the items tied to a new set of achievements, but I won't complain because we are getting new items (even though some are upgrades compared to sidegrades).

I know they are rare. I'm just wondering if they have any value. If nobody wants them, they're just regular items, since the only real difference is a bigger number.

Currently I doubt they have much value but once people trade them and craft them (not to mention if the game gets an influx of players) they will increase in value.

 

[Yeef]

I have so many doubles of weapons, but don't want to craft them for scrap metal yet, because then I would lose both weapons. I wait until I have three of the same weapon to craft 2 of them.

I've played the game for over 40 hours, and have had 2 triples, which means I now have 2 scrap metal, and zero hats.

Any two weapons from a single class will also give you scrap metal.

 

[leroidys]

1) Played TF2 for almost three years

2) Got a crate

3) Found out the only way to get a key is buying it

4) put $5 in my wallet to buy a 2.49 item

5) used the key

6) got an equalizer

7) deleted TF2

 

[(._.)]

Fuck team scramble/auto team balance, it always splits up me and my buddies.

It is indeed very annoying

 

[Stallion Free]

It is indeed very annoying

It feels like a punishment for playing well.

1) Played TF2 for almost three years

2) Got a crate

3) Found out the only way to get a key is buying it

4) put $5 in my wallet to buy a 2.49 item

5) used the key

6) got an equalizer

7) deleted TF2

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[rezuth]

1) Played TF2 for almost three years

2) Got a crate

3) Found out the only way to get a key is buying it

4) put $5 in my wallet to buy a 2.49 item

5) used the key

6) got an equalizer

7) deleted TF2

Hai guyz!! How I use computa?

 

[Blizzard]

It is indeed very annoying

Make more friends! Once EVERYONE is your friend, you will always be surrounded by friends on both teams \(^.^)/

The main thing that makes me sad about autobalance is if I actually try to play competitively, and work really hard to almost win a map, and then at the last 30 seconds I get switched to the other team to lose because someone left. In that case sometimes I'll just go spectator so at least I'm not hurting the original team. Maybe that's horrible, and if so, complain to me. Today I refrained and stayed on the team I got switched to, and we defended George for 7 minutes or so.

 

[Stallion Free]

I don't care about win/loss ratio, it's just fucking annoying. I used to play quite a bit of BF2 and I would be first on my team because I was a fucking ill medic and then the other team would have like 20 tickets left (down from 300) and it would switch me. Like wtf. I don't give a shit if teams are stacked, why am I being moved to the team I just laid waste too? And right at the end too? Especially when I was in the top 3. God fuck that shit so much. It still makes me bitter thinking about all the times that happened.

 

[Chinner]

i think gabe newell hates me i mean i NEVER get good item drops

 

[Blizzard]

I don't care about win/loss ratio, it's just fucking annoying. I used to play quite a bit of BF2 and I would be first on my team because I was a fucking ill medic and then the other team would have like 20 tickets left (down from 300) and it would switch me. Like wtf. I don't give a shit if teams are stacked, why am I being moved to the team I just laid waste too? And right at the end too? Especially when I was in the top 3. God fuck that shit so much. It still makes me bitter thinking about all the times that happened.

If this question was not rhetorical, presumably because some people -do- care (and thus programmed it to happen), and (depending on the way the game implements it):
1. You died at the wrong time.
2. The game figured that if you were a really good player, having you help out a team that is being crushed would help more than the worst player on your team being traded.

In TF2, I don't know that it pays any attention to score by default, so I see low players get traded. That's probably at least in part because the people who are good with high scores know how it works, so they play very carefully for a bit until the teams even out so they don't get switched. :lol

 

[Stallion Free]

If this question was not rhetorical, presumably because some people -do- care (and thus programmed it to happen), and (depending on the way the game implements it):
1. You died at the wrong time.
2. The game figured that if you were a really good player, having you help out a team that is being crushed would help more than the worst player on your team being traded.

In TF2, I don't know that it pays any attention to score by default, so I see low players get traded. That's probably at least in part because the people who are good with high scores know how it works, so they play very carefully for a bit until the teams even out so they don't get switched. :lol

The other team was going to lose anyways. I can't do shit in the last 2 minutes. It's a fucking stupid practice. We don't scramble teams mid way through an L4D game when they end up stacked and those games last far longer than the average any other multiplayer game.

 

[Visualante]

1) Played TF2 for almost three years

2) Got a crate

3) Found out the only way to get a key is buying it

4) put $5 in my wallet to buy a 2.49 item

5) used the key

6) got an equalizer

7) deleted TF2

Yeah fuck those crates. They're the worst. Deleted mine just because I think they're like fucking pokemon cards except you get nothing to show or trade for it.

Arena is fucked right now because half the team is idle trading on fucking forums and chat rooms.

 

[Visualante]

Hai guyz!! How I use computa?

What is your problem?

 

[overthehill99]

You can no longer craft achievement items? Seriously?

 

[Blizzard]

You can no longer craft achievement items? Seriously?

You can, as far as I know.

 

[Gully State]

It's necessary to keep the teams balanced. Play on better servers if it is that big of a deal to you.

The problem is that it doesn't balance the teams. If you're steamrolling the other team, and the other team loses 3-4 players, autobalancing isn't going to change the outcome. I've never seen autobalance change the outcome nor make a match suddenly fair. At best it just drags it out little bit more. Balancing before and after rounds is the only way that works.

 

[Blizzard]

The problem is that it doesn't balance the teams. If you're steamrolling the other team, and the other team loses 3-4 players, autobalancing isn't going to change the outcome. I've never seen autobalance change the outcome nor make a match suddenly fair. At best it just drags it out little bit more. Balancing before and after rounds is the only way that works.

This is true, plus people like me or Stallion feel upset that we worked hard and then end up on the losing team at the last minute where we hurt our original cause.

Scrambling right after people pick teams (or turning on the option to force random teams) seems like one of the few ways to make things work, at least on the GAF server, since a 2-round limit means scramble never happens in time, right?

 

[Twig]

I don't care about win/loss ratio, it's just fucking annoying. I used to play quite a bit of BF2 and I would be first on my team because I was a fucking ill medic and then the other team would have like 20 tickets left (down from 300) and it would switch me. Like wtf. I don't give a shit if teams are stacked, why am I being moved to the team I just laid waste too? And right at the end too? Especially when I was in the top 3. God fuck that shit so much. It still makes me bitter thinking about all the times that happened.

I just laugh because it's hilarious.

Sounds to me like you're too SRS BSNS for TF2. ):

 

[Gully State]

I just laugh because it's hilarious.

Sounds to me like you're too SRS BSNS for TF2. ):

I'm not sure why caring about winning all of a sudden invalidates any complaints. If autobalance doesn't work, then it doesn't work whether you care about winning or not. When no balancing feature is implimented, the community is up in arms and yet when it's implimented but doesn't work...suddenly anyone that complains "cares too much" or "isn't playing the game right" or "needs to play on a better server."

 

[Twig]

Who said I didn't care about winning? On the contrary, losing repeatedly is one of the most frustrating things for me in competitive gaming, and I have to constantly fight the urge to rage about the place.

But the issue isn't winning, anyway. I know I would have won, and that's enough for me. What does it matter if the game hilariously autoswitches me at the last second?

Like I said, you're far too SRS BSNS.

Also, I would prefer that players police the balance all on their own. I know the people I regularly play with do this voluntarily. I actually dislike that autobalance exists, too. But I'm not about to get all worked up about something that literally means absolutely nothing in the end. I guess I'm just a mature gamer. ):

 

[speculawyer]

Fuck team scramble/auto team balance, it always splits up me and my buddies.

That is the point.

 

[speculawyer]

1) Played TF2 for almost three years

2) Got a crate

3) Found out the only way to get a key is buying it

4) put $5 in my wallet to buy a 2.49 item

5) used the key

6) got an equalizer

7) deleted TF2

Trade the crate to someone else or deleted. They put up the situation but you are the one that suckered yourself. Don't do it if you don't like it.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

That is the point.

Autobalance always seems to make sure I'm the only one on my friends list not on the same team.

Also the Heavy really needs a buff. Currently, he can get killed, and I'm sure Valve are very upset about that. Next update will probably have a robot suit to reduce 100% of bullet damage (+10% explosive damage to be fair), and its special ability will be to stop time and auto-cap any chosen point.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Auto balance is for the betterment of the game. If you guys can't take pleasure in shooting your friends, you need to lighten up.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Trade the crate to someone else or deleted. They put up the situation but you are the one that suckered yourself. Don't do it if you don't like it.

In a round about way, that's what he's doing.

 

[Blizzard]

I refuse to play until we clone MicVlad and make him play on both teams at once. =(

 

[speculawyer]

In a round about way, that's what he's doing.

True. But he is throwing away a $20 game he already owns because he let himself pay $2.50 for virtual junk.

 

[Gully State]

Who said I didn't care about winning? On the contrary, losing repeatedly is one of the most frustrating things for me in competitive gaming, and I have to constantly fight the urge to rage about the place.

But the issue isn't winning, anyway. I know I would have won, and that's enough for me. What does it matter if the game hilariously autoswitches me at the last second?

Like I said, you're far too SRS BSNS.

Also, I would prefer that players police the balance all on their own. I know the people I regularly play with do this voluntarily. I actually dislike that autobalance exists, too. But I'm not about to get all worked up about something that literally means absolutely nothing in the end. I guess I'm just a mature gamer. ):

I take it then you're mature enough to recognize this as a problem then.

My point is that autobalance during the match doesn't work to make teams more fair. Being switched around mid match or late match doesn't ever improve the fairness/competitiveness of the match. You're confusing me with Stallion who has an issue of being switched at the end. I see the system as flawed in general and that his gripe is a problem on top of the fact that autobalance doesn't really balance. It's a system that doesn't do anything except switch people around.

 

[Yeef]

I take it then you're mature enough to recognize this as a problem then.

My point is that autobalance during the match doesn't work to make teams more fair. Being switched around mid match or late match doesn't ever improve the fairness/competitiveness of the match.

I think that's just plain untrue (in the case of TF2). A server with a standard setup only autobalances when team numbers are uneven. Balancing a game that's 12 vs 8 (extreme example) so that it's 10 vs 10 most certainly makes things fairer.

 

[Twig]

I take it then you're mature enough to recognize this as a problem then.

My point is that autobalance during the match doesn't work to make teams more fair. Being switched around mid match or late match doesn't ever improve the fairness/competitiveness of the match. You're confusing me with Stallion who has an issue of being switched at the end. I see the system as flawed in general and that his gripe is a problem on top of the fact that autobalance doesn't really balance. It's a system that doesn't do anything except switch people around.

But I already said I don't think it's a good solution, so now you're just attacking me because you're bitter.

Sorry, I don't have time to discuss these things with preteens. Go find someone else to bitch to.

 

[Gully State]

I think that's just plain untrue (in the case of TF2). A server with a standard setup only autobalances when team numbers are uneven. Balancing a game that's 12 vs 8 (extreme example) so that it's 10 vs 10 most certainly makes things fairer.

Well let's examine the alternative....12 vs 8- team gets steamrolled quickly.. teams are scrambled completely at the beginning of the next round. Teams are reset and fair once again.

Sorry, I don't have time to discuss these things with preteens. Go find someone else to bitch to.

I haven't been remotely insulting to you. I'm not the one throwing out condescending remarks. I mean you even agree with me that autobalance is a problem. And I agree that player moderation would be ideal but obviously that's just not feasible.

 

[Drkirby]

I refuse to play until we clone MicVlad and make him play on both teams at once. =(

Just give him a second computer and tell him to play as both players as once.

 

[Chinner]

just give him a hat he'll do anything for a hat

 

[Blizzard]

Well let's examine the alternative....12 vs 8- team gets steamrolled quickly.. teams are scrambled completely at the beginning of the next round. Teams are reset and fair once again.

That's silly. People can leave in the middle of a match, or early in a match. If you refuse to let the server balance out teams within a 1-2 people difference, on some maps it might take 10-20 minutes before there's even a chance for the server to scramble at the beginning of the next round. You would be depending on people to be nice and switch, and everyone else to stick around despite the obvious number imbalance. Not to mention, are you stipulating that autojoin be turned on? Otherwise, people can still pick teams to be with the people they want, next round.

 

[Yeef]

Well let's examine the alternative....12 vs 8- team gets steamrolled quickly.. teams are scrambled completely at the beginning of the next round. Teams are reset and fair once again.

Your solution is, more or less, "skip the map because people left." That seems a lot more silly than switching a few people to the other team.

Also, keep in mind that people on teams that get steamrolled tend to not stick around. Even more people would leave and instead of having a 10 vs 10 match you're likely going to have a much smaller match.

 

[Twig]

I haven't been remotely insulting to you. I'm not the one throwing out condescending remarks. I mean you even agree with me that autobalance is a problem. And I agree that player moderation would be ideal but obviously that's just not feasible.

You are correct. I am in a grumpy mood today. Sorry.

I don't think it's a problem; I just think it's bad. There is a difference, however minute.

Your solution is even more flawed, though, because it requires players to sit there and suffer until the map ends. The people who complain about being switched tot he losing team are the same kind of people who would ragequit just from BEING on the losing team. They are not worth paying attention to, because they're going to complain either way. You have to think about what's best for the masses, not the individual, and the masses would much rather at least have the illusion of balance (even teams) than to have to suffer for an entire round.

Plus, I guarantee that if autobalance worked the way you suggest, someone would write some sort of mod to make it autobalance mid-round and that would be the most popular way of doing it.

 

[Otrebor Nightmarecoat]

1) Played TF2 for almost three years

2) Got a crate

3) Found out the only way to get a key is buying it

4) put $5 in my wallet to buy a 2.49 item

5) used the key

6) got an equalizer

7) deleted TF2

Hai guyz!! How I use computa?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Gully State]

Your solution is, more or less, "skip the map because people left." That seems a lot more silly than switching a few people to the other team.

Also, keep in mind that people on teams that get steamrolled tend to not stick around. Even more people would leave and instead of having a 10 vs 10 match you're likely going to have a much smaller match.

People generally leave because of losing if they're continually getting steamrolled. A one round blowout generally doesn't discourage people.

That's silly. People can leave in the middle of a match, or early in a match. If you refuse to let the server balance out teams within a 1-2 people difference, on some maps it might take 10-20 minutes before there's even a chance for the server to scramble at the beginning of the next round. You would be depending on people to be nice and switch, and everyone else to stick around despite the obvious number imbalance. Not to mention, are you stipulating that autojoin be turned on? Otherwise, people can still pick teams to be with the people they want, next round.

How big of an advantage is a 1-2 player difference in a match? I suppose the answer depends on the overall player count. Anecdotally, how many times have you been balanced to another team and all of a sudden the game became more competitive overall? I'd argue that player quality>player count when it's a 1-2 difference. Although I admit that I haven't considered games with low player counts.

You are correct. I am in a grumpy mood today. Sorry.

I don't think it's a problem; I just think it's bad. There is a difference, however minute.

Your solution is even more flawed, because it requires players to sit there and suffer until the map ends.

No worries...The way I see it...being steamrolled/steamrolling for one round is better than continually being steamrolled/steamrolling for multiple rounds. From my experience, scramble before a match does a better job of balancing a team than autobalance during a match.

Of course I will admit that in the end none of us have the proper perspective to truly gauge balancing and I do wonder what are Valve's thoughts on this..But for a game that is all about team synergy during a match, I just find that switching people around mid match to be conflicting with the core of the game.

 

[Drkirby]

How big of an advantage is a 1-2 player difference in a match? I suppose the answer depends on the overall player count. Anecdotally, how many times have you been balanced to another team and all of a sudden the game became more competitive overall? I'd argue that player quality>player count when it's a 1-2 difference. Although I admit that I haven't considered games with low player counts.

2 players is pretty big when you only have 12 max, and very bad if its smaller and something like 8 v 6

 

[Yeef]

People generally leave because of losing if they're continually getting steamrolled. A one round blowout generally doesn't discourage people.

I see people leave all of the time when they're team loses horribly. In fact, a lot of the time people don't even wait for the round to end and leave when they realize they're not going to win.

How big of an advantage is a 1-2 player difference in a match? I suppose the answer depends on the overall player count. Anecdotally, how many times have you been balanced to another team and all of a sudden the game became more competitive overall? I'd argue that player quality>player count when it's a 1-2 difference. Although I admit that I haven't considered games with low player counts.

Assuming all players are of equal skill, having an extra 2 or more players is a huge advantage.

And, yes, I've had auto-balance make games a lot more competitive plenty of times. The nice thing about TF2 is that it announces when the teams will be auto-balanced so a good spy or sniper will target the better players. This is a lot easier if you play on the server a lot and are familiar with the regulars.

Of course, I've also seen auto-balance not make any difference at all. Auto-balance is far from perfect, but a lot better than the alternative.

 

[Sciz]

Anecdotally, how many times have you been balanced to another team and all of a sudden the game became more competitive overall?

You've never played a round with Javaman around, have you.

 

[Volcynika]

You've never played a round with Javaman around, have you.

The Javastack!