User 479360
Banned
Why would anyone even do that to themselves? Play through this thing twice AND deal with super hard mode? You'd have to hate yourself.
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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutants in Manhattan |OT| Heroes in a Bargain Bin
- Thread starter DryvBy
- Start date
Why would anyone even do that to themselves? Play through this thing twice AND deal with super hard mode? You'd have to hate yourself.
Have you played The Manhattan Project? Because you really should.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Time and limited technology doesn't really factor for me. I still play fairly shallow brawlers today that most people shit on for their shorter, arcade like nature. Is this game too much money at launch? Yes... bUT I had just as much fun playing this as other brawlers. I mean you could say I'm full of it but if I truly didn't enjoy my time, why would I have spent 9 hours with it. Unlike a lot of folks, I don't just play games, forcing and finish them. If I don't enjoy them, I just stop playing.
Host Samurai
Member
The best one
Chaotic-Strike
Banned
Yeah, I really love the boss fights in that one.
The Super Shredder one is so much better than the home console versions of Turtles in Time.
jadedm17
Member
Gamer's Club Unlocked makes it $40; Minus the $10 preorder bonus if you got Overwatch (and how hasnt?) then its $30.
Best Buy GCU is awesome.
That said, yea, I can see this dropping in price rather quick, so I'd wait otherwise.
As in the third NES one? Yeah I have.
TwiztidElf
Member
Still fighting the good fight I see Slasher.
People have played the screenshots and/or maybe the first level and in the binary internet world of awesome or shit, this game is complete shit.
There is definitely fun to be had in the game, but for some people there is more fun in just sticking the boot in.
People have played the screenshots and/or maybe the first level and in the binary internet world of awesome or shit, this game is complete shit.
There is definitely fun to be had in the game, but for some people there is more fun in just sticking the boot in.
SlasherJPC
Banned
I get irritated with people that come in smaller budget game threads and talk shit without playing them. Game feels like it was aimed a being a arcade brawler. Shorter then most games, co op focused, and bosses that wreck your shit. Just like the prior turtles games. They attempt some randomized mission and level.layouts to keep things unique each playthrough to an extent, and add the upgrades and level, giving it a dungeon crawler light feel.I'm not saying this game is amazing, but it'd been a fun fill couple of afternoons that took me back to playing old arcade games. Not every game has to be 10 out of 10 these days. It's silly.
You keep trying to compare this to classic brawlers but I just can't see the connection. I actually don't think they are especially great games but they are fun and responsive. They keep you moving with action that feels more satisfying along with great music.
This new game is terrible pacing in comparison. The fights are often short and divided by the need to run around the map waiting for April to tell you where to go next while your AI companions just get in the way. Your hits never feel as if they connect with enemies (they just go through them until they die). The maps are large and aimless and the whole thing feels less like a brawler and more like an MMO.
I don't care about its length but it just isn't fun to play even as a basic brawler since its pacing is nothing LIKE a classic brawler and the combat feels like a wet fart comparison.
And I enjoy low budget games and those that are 'C' grade from time to time. I just think this is a straight up boring game that captures none of the fun of old school brawlers. It is not like those games.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Just gotta agree to disagree. Though if were going to compare this to other Turtle arcade games.
Combat in this game trumps the older Turtle games. You had basically one set of moves and attack in those games, repeated over and over again. Sure there is cool down moves here which I guess is where you pulling the mmo idea from? but even taking those attacks out of the equation, game still has more combat options.
Then lets bring up length, cause people diss the game for being 4 to 5 hours. Then we have others saying its too long. The arcade games are over in about any hour. So if the combat is more involved yet the game is longer. Im sure the pacing is what can make things seem a bit off. Sure the pacing in the levels can be a bit slow, but your constantly fighting enemies fairly often as they spawn on and off in between the various missions for the most part, and most missions involve, fighting.
Bosses in the arcade games were meant to kill you, force you to insert more coins and be relatively cheap. You'd whack away at them, they would just keep going with little to no response and sometimes get stunned. Same thing happens here, just the bosses take more hits. They still have patterns, can be blocked, and avoided, are can be fought against easier once knowing their routine.
So from my perspetive, aside from the pacing issues concerning the exploration bits to the missions, if this was a bit more streamlined and not as opened ended in that regard, it would be almost identical to the brawlers sans the level up and charm stuff. Add in the fact that every level had some unique element to it to mix things up, ever so slightly. First level is a bit sandbox, subways has you riding subs, dodging them, etc. Sewers level one is dark and slower paced. In comparison the one later let's you surf on the water currents and adds a sense of speed. Same goes for the two levels in the sky scrappers. Offers platforming, then second offers flying elements with the wind current. The one level offers Krang mech suits to use and then integrates them into the boss battle. These are not amazing differences, but they are something to add to the mix.
It's not an amazing game at all, but because it's rooted in a older style of gameplay loops, and other miss match of ideas, it's stuck in this wierd position that it is. I get why some people dislike it, but others acting like they can't understand how some fans of hack and slash/arcade genre can enjoy this or see the similarities is a bit silly. That's all I can really say.
Here's the thing, I don't think those older games are especially great - but they nail certain elements that enable them to be more fun that this new game.
This is precisely what the new game lacks. When you attack an enemy, there is little to no sense of impact. Your attacks, for all intents and purposes, just go right through most enemies. The normal foes do sometimes exhibit animation to indicate they are being hit, but it lacks a strong sense genuine impact in those hits. Enemies also take longer to kill while posing minimal threat (outside of bosses which have other issues).
The MMO comparison stems from the way in which this lack of impact is combined with the three other turtles. You wind up with situations in which you have all four turtles beating on an enemy that isn't reacting to your actions with the only real indication of progress being the life bar. The chaos that ensues results in a situation that lacks clarity and ultimately feels unsatisfying.
To put it simply, a good brawler needs to FEEL right as hits connect. If the action of actually attacking enemies does not look or feel impactful, then it may as well not exist.
There are plenty of brawlers from the 90s that fail at this and become a chore to play as the key actions you perform fail to actually FEEL good.
Platinum's own better games focus on making the player feel cool while performing actions. The skill requirements plus the animation work and sensation of connecting attacks with enemies is EXTREMELY important here.
With this new game the pacing is very start/stop with little payoff. The action itself never really feels great but then you're often asked to run around an area until the next skirmish begins. You realize that you're not really progressing through a level so much as completely a set of arbitrary challenges until the game unlocks the boss for you. There's no sense of progression here.
When you tackle the Technodrome in TMNT4, you face a series of different enemies and challenges along with changes to the stage. There's no direction in the new game - you never feel as you're moving forward through a stage.
The enjoyment of these experiences is raised by excellent animation, memorable music, and a sense that you're actually succeeding.
In Turtles, it's just slamming on enemies as the life bar decreases with zero reaction to the players actions (something even TMNT4 offers). With all of the AI turtles attacking at once, it DOES feel more like an MMO raid boss since the actions of the player and the other turtles feels disconnected from what the boss is actually doing. The bosses feel neither properly retro nor Platinum evolved.
Music is another area that I feel is missing here. With these simple arcade games, a killer soundtrack is a must. The driving tracks used in some of those games are one of the key ingredients used to enhance battles. The new game has music that is competently made but has absolutely no personality and fails to drive the action.
I just feel like all of those elements come together to create something that just feels lackluster. It's not inherently bad, but it's dull. It doesn't hit the same marks as classic brawlers and winds up feeling more like a generic one that everyone would have forgotten.
To fix this game the developers need to improve the way in which hits connect with enemies, they need to modify the Turtle AI to avoid the pile-on problem, the stages need to be reconsidered with the "objective" based design scrapped, AI of enemies needs to improve, and there needs to be genuinely good music. Plus, it should all run at 60fps.
Look, I'm typically with you on games that are widely considered bad. I was agreeing with you all the way back when Alone in the Dark was rebooted almost a decade ago. I can see good ideas lurking beneath unpolished games and still have a good time. I just don't see a good game in Turtles and I feel that they made a game in the brawler style without understanding what made the good ones memorable.
If you enjoy it, that's absolutely fine, I'm really only giving my thoughts just as you are doing...but I think you're wrong to say "this is just like the old games" when that's very clearly not the case. Being simple, as those old brawlers are, isn't the issue - it's what they did with that simplicity that made them work. In some ways, this new game reminds me of something like Sengoku 3 on NeoGeo - a beautiful game but one that is just a chore to play. When a brawler goes wrong, it goes very wrong.
So the original games are very very simple but the animation is designed to convey a sense of power and impact. As you hit each sprite, there is a reaction to your attack. Whether they simply shake the sprite around with an appropriate sound effect, the enemy flying backwards, or the ability to throw them at the screen, it's designed to give the sensation of impact. Each enemy can be dispatched very quickly as well as new ones flood onto the scene.
This is precisely what the new game lacks. When you attack an enemy, there is little to no sense of impact. Your attacks, for all intents and purposes, just go right through most enemies. The normal foes do sometimes exhibit animation to indicate they are being hit, but it lacks a strong sense genuine impact in those hits. Enemies also take longer to kill while posing minimal threat (outside of bosses which have other issues).
The MMO comparison stems from the way in which this lack of impact is combined with the three other turtles. You wind up with situations in which you have all four turtles beating on an enemy that isn't reacting to your actions with the only real indication of progress being the life bar. The chaos that ensues results in a situation that lacks clarity and ultimately feels unsatisfying.
To put it simply, a good brawler needs to FEEL right as hits connect. If the action of actually attacking enemies does not look or feel impactful, then it may as well not exist.
There are plenty of brawlers from the 90s that fail at this and become a chore to play as the key actions you perform fail to actually FEEL good.
Platinum's own better games focus on making the player feel cool while performing actions. The skill requirements plus the animation work and sensation of connecting attacks with enemies is EXTREMELY important here.
The problem with the pacing stems from its inability to create exciting moments. In a typical brawler, stages tend to escalate - foes become more challenging as you progress and new challenges are thrown at the player while moving forward. The action never lets up, but it does ebb and flow.
With this new game the pacing is very start/stop with little payoff. The action itself never really feels great but then you're often asked to run around an area until the next skirmish begins. You realize that you're not really progressing through a level so much as completely a set of arbitrary challenges until the game unlocks the boss for you. There's no sense of progression here.
When you tackle the Technodrome in TMNT4, you face a series of different enemies and challenges along with changes to the stage. There's no direction in the new game - you never feel as you're moving forward through a stage.
I will say that I actually find the bosses in the arcade games to be rather poor design, though there are sometimes interesting twists. I find them more annoying and less fun to play in the new game when they SHOULD be evolved. This is an area where Platinum games typically excel - memorable, difficult boss challenges that require you to play very aggressively and skillfully.
The enjoyment of these experiences is raised by excellent animation, memorable music, and a sense that you're actually succeeding.
In Turtles, it's just slamming on enemies as the life bar decreases with zero reaction to the players actions (something even TMNT4 offers). With all of the AI turtles attacking at once, it DOES feel more like an MMO raid boss since the actions of the player and the other turtles feels disconnected from what the boss is actually doing. The bosses feel neither properly retro nor Platinum evolved.
Music is another area that I feel is missing here. With these simple arcade games, a killer soundtrack is a must. The driving tracks used in some of those games are one of the key ingredients used to enhance battles. The new game has music that is competently made but has absolutely no personality and fails to drive the action.
I just feel like all of those elements come together to create something that just feels lackluster. It's not inherently bad, but it's dull. It doesn't hit the same marks as classic brawlers and winds up feeling more like a generic one that everyone would have forgotten.
To fix this game the developers need to improve the way in which hits connect with enemies, they need to modify the Turtle AI to avoid the pile-on problem, the stages need to be reconsidered with the "objective" based design scrapped, AI of enemies needs to improve, and there needs to be genuinely good music. Plus, it should all run at 60fps.
Look, I'm typically with you on games that are widely considered bad. I was agreeing with you all the way back when Alone in the Dark was rebooted almost a decade ago. I can see good ideas lurking beneath unpolished games and still have a good time. I just don't see a good game in Turtles and I feel that they made a game in the brawler style without understanding what made the good ones memorable.
If you enjoy it, that's absolutely fine, I'm really only giving my thoughts just as you are doing...but I think you're wrong to say "this is just like the old games" when that's very clearly not the case. Being simple, as those old brawlers are, isn't the issue - it's what they did with that simplicity that made them work. In some ways, this new game reminds me of something like Sengoku 3 on NeoGeo - a beautiful game but one that is just a chore to play. When a brawler goes wrong, it goes very wrong.
SlasherJPC
Banned
It's all good man. I get your points as well. I can understand where you're coming from. All I can say is I'm having fun even with the flaws and still need to finish the final level with about 9 hours under my belt.
FreedomFighter
Member
Best OT I've seen on GAF yet. Amazing.
Not happy about my fave turtle taking a pummeling, but I'll get over it!
Not happy about my fave turtle taking a pummeling, but I'll get over it!
It's crazy because Transformers Devastation got the impact soooooooooo right. The delay pause, the impact animations, the hit effects, the sound. It was perfect. So fucking good.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
I totally agree. The game could and probably should have been so much more than it is, but what it does right is still by far the best TMNT rendition and gameplay there's ever been. I haven't rented a game in a million years so I'm not used to wanting to still play something after beating it, and not having it. As soon as it its $20 to $30 it's mine.
Yes, it was absolutely incredible. The vehicle mode really added to this as well since you could transition between high-speed driving to pummeling an opponent back to driving.
This was all book-ended with the ridiculous introductions for enemies that were always brilliantly framed along with the driving music. The battles just felt intense with just the right impacts, pauses, and effects work. It was that attention to detail that really helped overcome its budget and result in a game that worked even with repetitive environments! Such a cool experience.
Turtles has none of that. One of the most limp presentations I've seen in ages.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
Just not enough time to conceptualize it, I guess. They decided on something that would have the turtles climbing walls, parachuting, rail grinding... which just wouldn't make sense for something more linear like Battle Nexus, but only really sees glimpses of it's potential in like the Wingnut and Mega Krang levels. Also the online co-op I guess lends itself to "go anywhere" play, which is meant to also coalesce with the very tertiary equipment/leveling system since grinding by yourself sounds less appealing.
The one thing I like about it being this pseudo open area thing is mobs... it's a great way to just pour reasons to enjoy the combat for minutes at a time on the player. If they had gone linear, moving through open chambers with enough room to breathe, or even walled off streets that still let you touch up to rooftops, or into a little piece of alleyway, might've still been nice. The construction site for example could have been a purely vertical affair that went the length of a sky scraper and still utilized wall climbing, gliding on the outside in cool ways.
It's too bad this isn't the kind of thing that will get an improved sequel.
bumpkin
Member
Damn, I guess I'm never seeing that fight. I'm having a hard time getting the dodges and parries down on Easy and Normal difficulty. I hate that the turtles wildly spin around as their blocking animation. I feel like if you screw up a dodge, you spin wildly in a direction instead of a nice little dive to one side like Kratos in GOW.
Neff
Member
I should probably thank NeoGAF for holding this game's mouth open and shitting in it because I went in with super-low expectations, to the point of expecting something approaching a game which is actually bad, and it's... well, not. It plays good, it looks/sounds good. The former is the minimum I expect and tolerate. The latter is merely a sweet bonus.
At a guess I'd suspect most of the disappointment is directed at the fact that, at the end of the day, this franchise simply deserves much, much better in terms of content and budget, neither of which I would criticise PG for. It's certainly not as good as Transformers, a shoestring game already stretched thin, but I'd definitely place it above MadWorld, Korra or Anarchy Reigns' solo mode.
At a guess I'd suspect most of the disappointment is directed at the fact that, at the end of the day, this franchise simply deserves much, much better in terms of content and budget, neither of which I would criticise PG for. It's certainly not as good as Transformers, a shoestring game already stretched thin, but I'd definitely place it above MadWorld, Korra or Anarchy Reigns' solo mode.
Which is pretty surprising, since TMNT 2-4 on NES/SNES had really good hit feel. Especially 4. Every single hit had a certain type of impact that you felt. The light attacks. The one-arm slams. The tosses into the screen. They felt incredible.
While Platinum's no stranger to short development cycles, I have to question how this turned out so poorly. Was it simply a lack of motivation? A lot of their better talent on bigger projects? I wonder where it went wrong.
SlasherJPC
Banned
I'd have to agree. This isnt as good as Transformers, but that game had issues as well to. I'd have to agree, the way people talk about the game is as if it's total shit show. I mean unispired? Sure. Typical to average? Sure. People still have fun with these types of games. I've seen some others enjoy it just like I am, so I'm not the only one enjoying this.
H3rTz DoNuT
Member
It looks like I was wrong about the game.I've been playing for around 10hours and can't put it down. It actually might be the best TMNT game ever made. Co-op is pure blast and playing anything lower than Hard takes away a lot of fun factor. Double boss fight on hard go on forever and it's pure chaos. I'm really happy to be wrong this time 
It looks like I was wrong about the game.I've been playing for around 10hours and can't put it down. It actually might be the best TMNT game ever made. Co-op is pure blast and playing anything lower than Hard takes away a lot of fun factor. Double boss fight on hard go on forever and it's pure chaos. I'm really happy to be wrong this time
see, this guy gets it
play the game on a hard difficuly with other humans cooperatively and it's fun
it's not Bayonetta, it's not a solo experience, even if it allows you to do so
it's like Destiny. you can play it solo, but it's not nearly as fun.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Even the arcade games were pretty boring playing alone. These games are just always the better time with friends.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Ain't that the truth:
These type of impactful blows are still there in the new Turtles, but they're so heavily subdued compared to the best examples (in satisfactory audiovisual feedback) of Platinum's past work because they opted to make even the weakest mooks withstand more of a beating to counter-balance the possibility of four players simultaneously pummelling their target of choice. There's a disjointed feel to the weight of the hits you can dish out, looking at how the Turtles still have the strength of crushing concrete with (for example) their downward smashes post-jump, but often struggle to consistently stagger random Foot Ninja or especially bosses.
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
A common complaint I'm reading is that so much stuff gets lost in the streaks of neon and movement everywhere. If I've played a bunch of beat'em ups, is this really a deal breaker? One of the streams I was watching definitely made it look like it was easy to sort of lose track of what was going on.
DryvBy
Member
This. The impacts are the biggest fault of the combat to me. It doesn't feel like they're being hit and it just makes the combat kind of stale.
Barrel Cannon
Member
^There are points that should and shouldn't be compared between this game and the old ones but I think Dark10X sums it up pretty nice.
I'm still going to probably enjoy the game knowing myself. It's gonna be disappointing given that in terms of visuals/VO the production values are the best they have ever been in a TMNT game.
Manhattan Project is the GOAT TMNT game. If it had a visual remake with hi-def sprites I'd pay full price for it. That's how much I love the Manhattan Project.
I'm still going to probably enjoy the game knowing myself. It's gonna be disappointing given that in terms of visuals/VO the production values are the best they have ever been in a TMNT game.
Manhattan Project is the GOAT TMNT game. If it had a visual remake with hi-def sprites I'd pay full price for it. That's how much I love the Manhattan Project.
NES games did it all the time, notably Konami games with A and B 2-player modes. Pretty standard.
Manhatten Project was really hard, though. Very long, lots of hard bosses.
Yeah. It was the hardest of the arcade style games for sure. The power up nerfing helped that.
Neff
Member
It's very fast, busy and twitchy, harder to read visually than the usual PG title.
Barrel Cannon
Member
The friendly damage was one of my favorite parts of it. Made it so playing Co-Op meant that people had to coordinate a bit and cover certain parts of the screen and so we weren't spamming our specials[A+B] willy nilly. I do understand why other people consider 2/4 the GOATs because they were played by way more people due to arcade releases and the SNES/Sega visuals and TMNT3 came out after TMNT4 which didn't really help it's impression.
You could spam the specials in the game though as they stopped draining life after you hit 1 bar though which was pretty helpful.
I always felt TMNT 2 Arcade was the hardest TMNT game for myself. I managed to get good enough at TMNT3 that I eventually got to the point where I could all the way past the rooftops after Technodrome without losing a life.
Also TMNT3 is actually the first game I ever beat as a kid(Yoshi's Island/DKC2/Friday the 13th were the next ones I beat in order afterwards). I used to play most my games a lot but never manage to beat them and would just rotate until eventually I was fixated on TMNT3 one day and managed to get to Super Shredder for the first time with my last life.... then died and got game over. I re-did the whole game immediately and then managed to beat him. I remember barely beating him and just sitting through the credits while my mom yelled at me to come upstairs to eat lunch. The Credits for that game were so good so I ended up turning up the volume up high so I could block out my mom's yelling and continue listening to it(btw Manhattan project does have the GOAT TMNT track and I will fight anyone
Hyperfludd
Member
As time goes on, it's neat to see other people have the same moments I had in where the game started out pretty "what is this" and as the nuances are gotten impressions go up.
I just wish this game had a digital manual like Transformers did, I'd love to know how many kinds of charm effects are there. :\
I just wish this game had a digital manual like Transformers did, I'd love to know how many kinds of charm effects are there. :\
User 479360
Banned
This thread keeps throwing off Malware flags.
Barrel Cannon
Member
Malware flags?
User 479360
Banned
My web shield keeps telling me it's blocked a Malware threat every time I go into this one thread.
The URL extension ends in .gif. (it starts with, a.pomf.cat)
Mega Man's Electric Sheep
Member
I'm getting it too. This one thread is driving my antivirus crazy.
Riposte
Member
Ain't that the truth:
These type of impactful blows are still there in the new Turtles, but they're so heavily subdued compared to the best examples (in satisfactory audiovisual feedback) of Platinum's past work because they opted to make even the weakest mooks withstand more of a beating to counter-balance the possibility of four players simultaneously pummelling their target of choice. There's a disjointed feel to the weight of the hits you can dish out, looking at how the Turtles still have the strength of crushing concrete with (for example) their downward smashes post-jump, but often struggle to consistently stagger random Foot Ninja or especially bosses.
More than a possibility, I think you are suppose to gang-up on the same opponents. Don't you get a buff if you stick close together?
I found that the downward air attack was pretty good at staggering, even on the first boss (on normal anyway).
SumptuousLemur
Banned
I am a huge TMNT fan so I am ready to pick this up when the price is right.
Currently there is no way this is worth $69.99 Canadian plus tax (about $81). In no way, even from those having positive impressions, is this game worth over $80.
Soon enough!
Currently there is no way this is worth $69.99 Canadian plus tax (about $81). In no way, even from those having positive impressions, is this game worth over $80.
Soon enough!
User 479360
Banned
Glad it's not just me. It's still doing it.
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
Canadian prices sure are fucked.
I'll get the game at 50% off...
Though by the sounds of it,
people that don't like it are playing this single player.
Right from the bat I'll be playing this co-op,
I don't think I'll ever touch the single player.
Never played the old ones single player (Except where forced)
If you could get 4 players, it was awesome, if you couldn't, minimum 2.
Even the enemy timing for hits sounds like it was geared for multiplayer.
Though by the sounds of it,
people that don't like it are playing this single player.
Right from the bat I'll be playing this co-op,
I don't think I'll ever touch the single player.
Never played the old ones single player (Except where forced)
If you could get 4 players, it was awesome, if you couldn't, minimum 2.
Even the enemy timing for hits sounds like it was geared for multiplayer.
DryvBy
Member
That's how you know you're in the right place.
Streaming this game. Playing a drinking game with it. The rules?
1) Continues, take a shot of vodka.
2) Beating a level take a swig of rum.
I don't drink often and I'm as skinny as Splinter. I'm gonna be done quickly.