Did you not ask why "people overreact to every single thing Muslims do"? That statement itself is necessarily outside of the scope of "people asking a question to Harada in an normal way and Harada responding". So clean the fucking wax out of your ears son. People overreact to every single thing Muslims do, even when it's something as innocuous as asking a question to Harada in an normal way and Harada responding, because in contemporary times there are many examples Muslims either destroying things or killing people over artwork deemed offensive.
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Tekken Tag 2 to be modified due to use of 'Allah' in Saudi Arabia stage
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
- Start date
Did you not ask why "people overreact to every single thing Muslims do"? That statement itself is necessarily outside of the scope of "people asking a question to Harada in an normal way and Harada responding". So clean the fucking wax out of your ears son. People overreact to every single thing Muslims do, even when it's something as innocuous as asking a question to Harada in an normal way and Harada responding, because in contemporary times there are many examples Muslims either destroying things or killing people over artwork deemed offensive.
Mavromatis
Member
I think I must have missed those. Maybe they are buried under tons of nazi, communists, and terrorists generalization on movies, games, books and any other medium.
I see that clears things up. People are overreacting, because they think all Muslims are the same. You're right people really should stop being such biggots and see the bigger picture.
edit: I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, so I'm going to assume that you are not. However, you cannot make the step from criticising an endemic cultural issue within Islam and thinking "all Muslims are the same". There's an endemic problem of pedophilia within Catholicism. That doesn't mean all Catholics are pedophiles or condone it. My statement is that there is an endemic cultural problem within Islam with artwork that some view as offensive or insulting to Islam. In the mildest scenario it's a few people politely asking a developer to remove a bit map, in a more moderate example it's Muslim governments trying to get anti-blasphemy directorates through the UN, and in the worst scenario it's destroying 5,000 year old artifacts or attacking embassies and killing people. Because there are so many examples, and because it's a global phenomenon I don't think this is an unfair criticism. But I agree bigotry is horrible. That's why, as a side, the thing I think Muslims should be offended about isn't artwork, but the stereotyping of Muslim people in the media.
Demanding something be changed is one thing, but I see no issue with simply letting a dev know that you find something to be offensive or inaccurate (or even just questioning the motives). It's part of the feedback a studio would want. If the devs believe whatever outside input has merit, then they can take appropriate action to fix the issue.
I'm fine with the tweet in the OP and the Harada's response to it. Apparently it was an oversight, Harada doesn't want it in there, so he's going to patch it out. Didn't GT5 have a car with a diecast logo on the undercarriage, a non-religious but still trivial issue, that was later patched? The fear of religious extremists doesn't have to be the primary reason a dev would patch an issue like the one described in the OP.
I'm fine with the tweet in the OP and the Harada's response to it. Apparently it was an oversight, Harada doesn't want it in there, so he's going to patch it out. Didn't GT5 have a car with a diecast logo on the undercarriage, a non-religious but still trivial issue, that was later patched? The fear of religious extremists doesn't have to be the primary reason a dev would patch an issue like the one described in the OP.
Pretty much this.
"Sorry Muslims, we tell you what you have the right to be offended by because we totally understand your religion and culture. And no, you do not have the right to peacefully interact with a game developer about your concerns."
"Sorry game developer, your work is being censored and your freedom of speech is being infringed upon even though you are willingly removing a floor texture and initially never intended for something like this to even be there in the first place."
It's quite clear who is the one being irrational and silly. So much ignorance and hypocrisy, it's baffling.
Nobody here is saying that.
Nobody here is saying that either.
The thread has gone a little off-topic, and now seems to be about the reactions in general to offensive art as opposed to being only about this particular case. Can't really blame anyone for that, seeing as there isn't a whole lot to discuss about this story specifically.
It becomes unfair criticism when you are attributing the atrocities of others to people who have nothing to do with it. The Muslims in this case have done nothing wrong and Harada responding has done nothing wrong.
And here you are having a problem with Muslims wanting an accurate representation.
No one is saying that? LOL
Read through the comments. I don't want to go through this thread to actually provide you with the various examples present in this thread.
I refrain myself from discussions like this because they are most often pointless but it was a Tekken thread so I got involved anyway. At the end of the day, I don't really care what anyone has to say because I'm going to continue playing TTT2 and continue enjoying it.
Dark Octave
Banned
If you had just left out the "how about that?" at the end it would have led me to believe you weren't irritated by my comment, when in fact there was no need to be.
I am a Muslim who is offended by the use of "Allah" on the ground where the characters step on. I would not have had an issue if it was on the wall or something. I respect Harada for putting an Arab represented stage in Tekken complying with our complaint. All the responses from Muslims to Harada where in line from what I saw.
So whats the problem here gaf? That some people actually care about their religion and culture where they do not want them demeaned in any way?
So whats the problem here gaf? That some people actually care about their religion and culture where they do not want them demeaned in any way?
Lol you were kind of insinuating all Muslims were backward sexists, just saying.
Yeah, I'm not seeing the issue.
Dude asked nicely and Harada pretty much said "ok, we'll change it".
This isn't like OoT and LBP where people asked for it to be changed over nothing. Stepping on something is a big deal in the Middle East. Why do you think that one of the first things the Americans did in Baghdad is remove George Bush Sr's face from that hotel floor?
Dude asked nicely and Harada pretty much said "ok, we'll change it".
This isn't like OoT and LBP where people asked for it to be changed over nothing. Stepping on something is a big deal in the Middle East. Why do you think that one of the first things the Americans did in Baghdad is remove George Bush Sr's face from that hotel floor?
it's OK to ignore my criticism. Just don't be surprised next time something like this happens and people start to overreact.
Schobeleth
Member
Surprisingly, there are people in the world who have different beliefs than what you may have. For a deeply religious people, the use of their icons and deities can easily be considered offensive.
Although nothing will ever top how awesome this is:
Especially the whole bit with Carlin.. so priceless.
sarcasm
Especially the whole bit with Carlin.. so priceless.
Rollo Lawson
Banned
It goes beyond hurt feelings...there is religious basis for the concerns. Muslims are obligated by the religion to strive against what may offend Allah. So as far as being Muslim goes, they can't "take it upon themselves to ignore or avoid the offensive material".
What's unreasonable is to expect anyone to circumvent their own belief just because you think it's too much.
I'm not really educated on atheism but it seems to me that you should be the last person to comment on how religious people should behave
ComputerMKII
Banned
What if my belief is that I should hang your entire family upside down and drink their blood to satisfy my personal god?
Rollo Lawson
Banned
Seeing as how that's exactly the same as politely complaining about a picture, I have no problem with it...
I think in this case muslims have a valid point, and it seems it has been made respectfully, and the response from the game devs has been equally respectful. So win win. I think we can and should all rally around this positive interaction.
What sucks is when some muslims go apeshit over cartoons or videos etc., and start doing actual, violence in reaction. That is unacceptable to Westerners, and should always been roundly condemned, and not appeased. I have a very low opinion of religion in general, so the last thing I want to see is any religion gaining political power in the world.
Ah, and here we have the crux of the problem.
If that is true, then muslims desperately need to reform their world view. Expecting the entire rest of the world to adhere to muslim tenets on expression is not going to work out. They have the right to expect their own co-religionists to behave a certain way, but not others.
Yes, like anyone else, they can complain about expression they dislike, but when they go beyond complaint and start killing, threatening etc., then it becomes impossible to respect their complaints. Lastly, also consider how non-muslims are portrayed in many Islamic countries -- i.e. hateful caricatures and condemnations of Jews and Christians are all too common. Look at Saudi Arabia, where the King just "demanded" (his word, not mine) a UN resolution against expression involving religious ridicule -- look at the stuff they teach their kids about Jews & Christians. I'm all for respectful INTERACTIONS between cultures, but that's the key -- it has to be interactive, meaning it goes both ways. Whether or not that's actually possible for Islam I don't know.
BigBadShamoo
Banned
This is dumb. I don't care. What if my Username was ALLAH or I made a decal that portrayed allah. lol. Shits redic.
I have no problem with people believing in any form of a god, as I like to believe there's more "once we die".
However, I will NEVER understand fanatics like this. Sure, in this example, they asked the developer nicely and the developer agreed to remove it.
Yet, I feel this could of went another way when the developer would answer "no, deal with it" (which they should). I think the developer would receive death threats and such, like the recent mohammed movie.
Every religion is about peace, yet the first thing these fanatics do, is threatening to kill/murder people when they make fun of allah/mohammed/god/whatever. "Yeah you should never murder people guys. But if they make fun of us, it's ok. No problem!"
Ugh, hypocrisy...
However, I will NEVER understand fanatics like this. Sure, in this example, they asked the developer nicely and the developer agreed to remove it.
Yet, I feel this could of went another way when the developer would answer "no, deal with it" (which they should). I think the developer would receive death threats and such, like the recent mohammed movie.
Every religion is about peace, yet the first thing these fanatics do, is threatening to kill/murder people when they make fun of allah/mohammed/god/whatever. "Yeah you should never murder people guys. But if they make fun of us, it's ok. No problem!"
Ugh, hypocrisy...
Tell us more about this hypothetical situation that didn't happen.
It's crazy, nothing Muslims will ever do will be able to wipe that murderer stigma.The anti-Muslim hysteria is getting annoying.
If the response is as flippant as yours, it deserves to be dismissed.
Monocle
Member
With all due respect (that is to say, precious little), a "religious basis" provides absolutely no support for the legitimacy of a belief. Quite the opposite, actually. What's really unreasonable here is the way that people use tradition to justify their entitled attitudes.
What about my beliefs? Are they not worth consideration? As a secularist, I could choose to style myself an heir to the world's richest and most fruitful intellectual tradition. It would be somewhat less immodest than claiming my personal feelings are endorsed by the supreme overlord of everything. Less immodest, to reduce the scope just slightly, than assuming the support of upward of two billion cothinkers. I could make that appeal to tradition, but I don't. An ideological pissing match wouldn't serve to clarify the main issue, which is how this particular episode fits into the larger pattern of coercion involving Islam and art deemed offensive by the few Muslims who commend themselves as the voice of the many.
Overall a good thought, however do more research on the bolded part. The definition of "peace" can vary greatly between different systems of beliefs. It simply is not true, no matter how much people wish it was, that all religions are about "peace," or at least the commonly understood Western secular version of peace.
And that's not flippant?You didn't even read the thread and you judge people on their posting style.
Earlier this month, a modern warfare 2 (MW2!) map was removed because of muslims. That game is several years old, but it HAD to be removed once some people were offended by it. Now this again. It's just silly. I'm not even targeting muslims, but religion in general. I would be as annoyed when christians or any other religion would whine about these things.
Dark Octave
Banned
No I wasn't. I was simply stating my prior belief and admitting how I was wrong in believing that.
Kageshinzo
Member
Actually no, the real problem here is that Muslims actually have a legitimate complaint about something for once (i.e., a digital representation of a religious subject to them, "Allah", being stepped on, and on a mass-market product) and people here are overreacting simply because there was a precedent of Muslims protesting something in the past which, I would be the first to agree, were ridiculous actions.
If they were complaining about, say, the word "Allah" being displayed on the wall or posted in the game, then yeah, I wouldn't be defending their point. But what's funny is that for once, they actually have a legit claim to be offended and suddenly people are calling them out for being entitled little pricks over it.
DR2K
Banned
No doubt that if left alone people might be harmed for this. That's the problem that most Americans would have, we don't respond well to terrorism. The way this situation was handled is fine, but there's more to it and that's what people don't like.
dark_prinny
Banned
These things are pretty stupid.
I have trouble understanding why someone would care that their god's name is on a floor. Is this one of those superstitions passed on for so many generations that no one questions its absurdity? It reminds me of how people use to say you had to burn the flag if it ever touched the ground.
I certainly did read the thread, thanks.
And since I didn't find any convincing arguments, I asked for one from Glass Rebel, and Glass Rebel couldn't even come up with one.
This thread is ugly as the fuck.
Gamers are a group of whiners. You should stop buying all games.
Gamers are a group of whiners. You should stop buying all games.
blitzcloud
Banned
not always them, though.
Seriously?
It's a ground texture on the floor of a stage that can be (relatively) easily removed. The offended party asked nicely that Namco consider removing the symbol, to which they complied. Nothing of consequence was lost. It's a non-issue. Full stop.
What if a character were to wall-jump off of it?
Rollo Lawson
Banned
Of course its possible for Islam. Not saying any of that is right, but also look at how Islam is presented in Western media. The first we think about in a situation like this, involving Islam, is terrorism or violence. Why? The terrorism bit has as much to do with Islam as Branch Davidians or the KKK have to do with Christianity. Technically, terrorism shouldn't even be in this discussion.
So anyone that's ever offended by anything in a game can request that it be removed and expect it to happen. Okay.
That's really easy to answer. Because in the frequent cases of threats of violence, the reason cited is almost always the religion. Whether or not that is an accurate representation of the people or their culture doesn't matter because it will never reach the ears of the rest of the world. Shouldn't this problem be solved by ignoring the extremists and fanatics instead of giving in all the time and censoring media?
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