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[yukimeans_snow]

Reminds me of the guy who died at an Internet cafe after playing a game non-stop for a few days. No one noticed he was dead for a long time, until the smell kicked in.

This is really bad stuff to hear

 

[Phrozenflame500]

this might be my western ignorance showing, but china seems to have this weird problem with video game addiction that i haven't quite seen nearly to the same extent in western countries.

 

[Somnid]

You don't know what you're talking about. This is a MOBA not a Gacha game.

MOBA games make most of their money via random loot crates. Is this different somehow?

 

[Asd202]

Serious question...has anyone ever heard of a story like these (stroke after 40 hours of playing...jumping from third floor because games taken away) for any country but China? I think perhaps i have heard of one from Korea...but otherwise every single story is from China. Perhaps it has happened but i haven't heard it.

Well If 50 million people are playing the game your bound to hear such stories.

 

[Frozenprince]

You guys know that causing the equivalent of a drug addiction in children is bad, yes?

 

[whalleywhat]

Addictive? They said the same thing about opium.

 

[mcrommert]

I have always wondered if my race is genetically more susceptible to gambling and gaming addictions.

Seriously seriously doubt its genetic...also kind of dangerous to suggest that

Cultural differences are at such a deep level that often you don't realize you act differently...would be interested if any study had been done on this

 

[Mr. Wedgewood]

Out of curiousity, can parents set limits through parental settings on x1, ps4, or Switch; off after 9pm and only one hour per day kind of thing?

Not sure aboutx1/ps4 but I know Switch has a Parental Control App.
https://youtu.be/03bAayBtcb0

 

[Principate]

this might be my western ignorance showing, but china seems to have this weird problem with video game addiction that i haven't quite seen nearly to the same extent in western countries.

The F2P industry has for many year a needed to be regulated like the gambling industry, the only reason it hasn't is greed and a lack of care for the consequences.

 

[franklyshankly]

Serious question...has anyone ever heard of a story like these (stroke after 40 hours of playing...jumping from third floor because games taken away) for any country but China? I think perhaps i have heard of one from Korea...but otherwise every single story is from China. Perhaps it has happened but i haven't heard it.

There was a guy in the US who killed his parents for taking away Halo 3. I'd say that's significantly worse.

 

[The Pet of the Month]

Out of curiousity, can parents set limits through parental settings on x1, ps4, or Switch; off after 9pm and only one hour per day kind of thing?

On Xbox One, you set accounts under a parent account, and can provide a timeframe and number of hours of use per day. If you're present and the kid's time is up, you can give more time by inputting your PIN code.

The Switch has hours per day thing and you can set when the Switch will pause for the day, though the times they give aren't as flexible as i like them to be.

I can't find any settings like that on my PS4, but the system has content filtering set on maturity levels 0-9. Wish Sony could implement a system like the other two have.

 

[whalleywhat]

There was a guy in the US who killed his parents for taking away Halo 3. I'd say that's significantly worse.

You'd say killing your parents is worse than killing yourself? An interesting debate, to be sure.

 

[Reverend Funk]

Loot crate systems are essentially gambling where theres no real way to win.

 

[franklyshankly]

You'd say killing your parents is worse than killing yourself? An interesting debate, to be sure.

...I don't see how there's any debate. Suicide ends only your own life. Murder of others is a violation on an entirely different level.

 

[SmartWaffles]

Serious question...has anyone ever heard of a story like these (stroke after 40 hours of playing...jumping from third floor because games taken away) for any country but China? I think perhaps i have heard of one from Korea...but otherwise every single story is from China. Perhaps it has happened but i haven't heard it.

Not actually unreal. The general Chinese population, especially in lower tier cities, have very poor psychological education, a lot of young children and people have very poor perception of virtual world and lacks common sense.

 

[jroc74]

This is ridiculous. Many games were addictive when I was a child but I was disciplined enough not to go and break my legs.

Exactly.

Lets say you are 18, so you grew up on PS360Wii and DSPSP. Those plattforms lacked always online money sinks.

Wii, I can understand. But PS360? Even if they werent designed to be always online, MP parts of games from last gen could become just that to those that get addicted.

DCUO could be seen as one. Maybe not so much a money sink but always online. There were a handful of F2P games on PS3, dont know about 360. And online is free on PS3?

You can read on this forum how some wouldnt mind a separate MP only part of a single
player game.

I mean kudos for them doing that, but they shouldnt be doing the job of the parent.

 

[Kthulhu]

Seriously seriously doubt its genetic...also kind of dangerous to suggest that

Cultural differences are at such a deep level that often you don't realize you act differently...would be interested if any study had been done on this

I've read articles that suggest that you can be more susceptible to gambling addiction based on genetics. I doubt being Chinese has anything to do with it though.

You guys know that causing the equivalent of a drug addiction in children is bad, yes?

For real. A lot of F2P games are designed to be addicting. They practically have to be in order to be profitable.

 

[Deepwater]

China has 1.3 billion people so proportionally it's not unrealistic that these kind of events happen and that we hear about them with more frequency than we do in the West/US

 

[jroc74]

I mean this is from the OP:

Last week state media reported a 13-year-old boy in Hangzhou had broken his legs jumping from a third-floor window after his parents stopped him from playing.

Please explain how the company setting time limits stops this?

I cant imagine what he would do with the new time limits set in place....

 

[Jebusman]

I mean this is from the OP:



Please explain how the company setting time limits stops this?

I cant imagine what he would do with the new time limits set in place....

The idea is not letting kids reach that level of addiction in the first place.

The kid was used to playing for as long as he wanted, and nearly killed himself when denied that.

If he was used to the idea of only playing 1 or 2 hours a day in the first place, the shock of the game being taken away from him wouldn't have driven him to jump.

That's the logic.

If the "game" is taking away their ability to play, that's different than the parent taking it away. In the parent situation, the kid recognizes that he "could" be playing more, but his parents are limiting him.

If the company limits it, there is literally nothing in his power to rectify that situation. So the idea (the company hopes) is they just learn to deal with it.

 

[mnannola]

Causing severe addiction is the kind of "good" you shouldn't aim for.

I'm struggling with this one. If you are a game developer, isn't this something you SHOULD aim for?

Isn't this the same thing as saying some kids TV shows are created to be addictive, or that slot machines are too addictive?

The problem here has to be that parents are not educating their kids on the dangers of playing these games for long periods of time. Mandating how long a kid can play the game for seems way over the top, this should be the parents job to set limits.

 

[DylanEno]

If your child is jumping off a building because you won't let him play a video game, you fucked up as a parent.

 

[Moral Panic]

I'm struggling with this one. If you are a game developer, isn't this something you SHOULD aim for?

Isn't this the same thing as saying some kids TV shows are created to be addictive, or that slot machines are too addictive?

The problem here has to be that parents are not educating their kids on the dangers of playing these games for long periods of time. Mandating how long a kid can play the game for seems way over the top, this should be the parents job to set limits.

Do you think kids should be allowed to use slot machines?

 

[Blizzard]

I'm struggling with this one. If you are a game developer, isn't this something you SHOULD aim for?

As a game developer, I don't think so. I think game developers should try to have some level of morals.

There's creating a videogame which is fun, and then there is creating a videogame which is specifically designed to take advantage of, or manipulate, certain impulse and reward circuits in the brain in order to develop addiction.

The latter is what many games aim for with loot box etc. mechanics.

 

[RRockman]

Fuck you get a stroke just for playing 40 hours non-stop?
Already had one and you don't survive the third

Masterfully done. Took me a minute.


On topic it really is crazy that phone game could have that much pull on children's lives. They could probably solve it by putting a 5 hour cap on children's accounts, but that would probably cut into their profit margins, and I doubt they'do be willing to take the hit.

 

[whalleywhat]

...I don't see how there's any debate. Suicide ends only your own life. Murder of others is a violation on an entirely different level.

So if I bully someone into committing suicide, not only do I get my way, but I'm also validated by knowing what I did was 'better' than if they had retaliated?

Setting that aside, this is from the perspective of the industry, not the actors themselves. I don't know how you can say in good conscience that driving someone to suicide is 'better' than driving them to kill someone else. The end result is exactly the same.

 

[spekkeh]

I'm a capitalist, but you know capitalism may be a mistake if shares crash over regulations to stop child gambling addictions.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Lets say you are 18, so you grew up on PS360Wii and DSPSP. Those plattforms lacked always online money sinks.

Doesn't mean anything. We've had cases like this, if not worse before always online microtransaction heavy games even existed. Even by today's standards, incidents like this are still rare cases which says more about the individuals than the issues with the game or company.

 

[franklyshankly]

So if I bully someone into committing suicide, not only do I get my way, but I'm also validated by knowing what I did was 'better' than if they had retaliated?

Setting that aside, this is from the perspective of the industry, not the actors themselves. I don't know how you can say in good conscience that driving someone to suicide is 'better' than driving them to kill someone else. The end result is exactly the same.

There must be some weird miscommunication going on here. Sure if you're talking about from the aspect of the game developer "driving someone to suicide" is about as bad as "driving someone to murder." Personally I don't think a developer of any game does either. Anyone who does either due to a game has some deep issues that are not the fault of the games. I think anyone would agree Bungie isn't responsible for a kid killing his mom and dad because they took away Halo. While it's a question of degree, I also don't think Tencent is responsible for someone killing themselves over these games. Millions of people play them with no detriment to their lives.

My point was from the aspect of the person doing the act. As the person doing the killing, yes killing yourself is better than killing others. You choose to end your own life, then so be it. You choosing to end someone else's life is taking away THEIR right to live, I think it's pretty clear why that's a different beast. As to your first sentence, bullying another into suicide is again different, as you are causing another to die. It is wholly different than the basic observation I was making, that murder is worse than suicide.

Ultimately this is all inconsequential to the actual topic. My original comment was only in reply to a question stating that they never hear of this type of thing in other parts of the world. I provided a pretty horrific example of something similar happening in the US. That's it.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Mobile games were a mistake.

 

[spekkeh]

I'm struggling with this one. If you are a game developer, isn't this something you SHOULD aim for?

Isn't this the same thing as saying some kids TV shows are created to be addictive, or that slot machines are too addictive?

The problem here has to be that parents are not educating their kids on the dangers of playing these games for long periods of time. Mandating how long a kid can play the game for seems way over the top, this should be the parents job to set limits.

No, addiction is involuntary. You can only enter the magic circle volitionally. This means people are not playing your game if they're doing it out of addiction. You want people to be wilfully engaged with your game, not unwilfully.

 

[godhandiscen]

So basically a case of this

underrated post

 

[Prophaniti]

Back then games weren't designed to be deliberately addicting though. The whole F2P industry (particularly mobile gaming) is about constantly designing a new and better skinner box.




The reality is that people are not always in control of their actions and F2P game designers try to take advantage of this, just like gambling machine designers or drug dealers. Games are being designed to manipulate someone's brain chemistry, particularly those prone to addiction.

Wtf are you even talking about? What do you think arcades were? Comparing a mobile game to addictive drugs is bizarre. If the game makes that much money then think for a second about how many people AREN'T jumping off buildings.

 

[Kthulhu]

Wtf are you even talking about? What do you think arcades were? Comparing a mobile game to addictive drugs is bizarre. If the game makes that much money then think for a second about how many people AREN'T jumping off buildings.

There are studies that show the more people are disconnected with their money, the more likely they are to part with it.

Getting someone to spend $10 without a second thought is a lot easier with a credit card or premium currency vs cash.

 

[mnannola]

Do you think kids should be allowed to use slot machines?

I don't think there should be anything outlawing kids to use a slot machine. If I'm at an arcade with my 6 year old and there was a slot machine I would treat it the same way as other games there, such as one of those shitty claw machines or the machine where you throw a coin into a huge pile of coins all teetering on the edge. Or those machines that have a key you try and put in a keyhole in order to win an iPad etc.

To me those are teachable moments, and I would much rather teach them about it when they are young than ignore them until they reach 18 and hope that they discover that those games are designed to take money from them on their own.

 

[SapientWolf]

You guys know that causing the equivalent of a drug addiction in children is bad, yes?

Kids shouldn't have unfettered access to any game. Or the internet, for that matter. Any game could potentially be addictive.

 

[Kthulhu]

I don't think there should be anything outlawing kids to use a slot machine. If I'm at an arcade with my 6 year old and there was a slot machine I would treat it the same way as other games there, such as one of those shitty claw machines or the machine where you throw a coin into a huge pile of coins all teetering on the edge. Or those machines that have a key you try and put in a keyhole in order to win an iPad etc.

To me those are teachable moments, and I would much rather teach them about it when they are young than ignore them until they reach 18 and hope that they discover that those games are designed to take money from them on their own.

The difference is that those games are trying to con you out of your money by creating the illusion of chance, while slot machines are designed to keep you coming back.

 

[Kthulhu]

Kids shouldn't have unfettered access to any game. Or the internet, for that matter. Any game could potentially be addictive.

Not really, no.

 

[Innolis]

They should probably take a look at why those people need to play 40 hours straight...

 

[sibarraz]

I've seen plenty of those liveleak videos of Chinese internet cafes. They take their gaming far too seriously.

How are those videos? I'm curious

They damn well should be. Games don't hijack the minds of these kids. They don't cause physical dependency.

If anyone's to blame, I would point to the parents for not teaching their kids how to live a balanced and healthy life.

Eh, I disagree. this kind of games are desgined so you will get easily addicted to them. and since getting these games is way easier than going to a casino or purchasing alcohol/drugs, is way easier to trigger addicts.

Some people could have a healty and balanced life until suddenly some events trigger leading you to an addiction to something

 

[SumGamer]

The game had been a massive hit over here under the name Realm of Valor (What's with multiple name any way?). Most people I know now play it, even if they don't really like Moba before. It's exactly like LoL; easy, simple, fun. It's so popular that people around me start spending real money in the game. Some of them have been playing mobile games for years and never spend any money for in game good.

Still I didn't realise that people are addicting so bad. It could be that I'm more of a DotA guy, the complexity of items and skill combination draw me in. However, I doubted that mechanism would work well on the phone.

 

[Tanston]

Under-12s are now limited to an hour of Honour of Kings a day and cannot play after 9pm, according to the post, while those between 12 and 18 are limited to two hours a day.

They can still work in the nike factory 12 hours a day though right? I don't want my shoes getting more expensive!

 

[jroc74]

The idea is not letting kids reach that level of addiction in the first place.

The kid was used to playing for as long as he wanted, and nearly killed himself when denied that.

If he was used to the idea of only playing 1 or 2 hours a day in the first place, the shock of the game being taken away from him wouldn't have driven him to jump.

That's the logic.

If the "game" is taking away their ability to play, that's different than the parent taking it away. In the parent situation, the kid recognizes that he "could" be playing more, but his parents are limiting him.

If the company limits it, there is literally nothing in his power to rectify that situation. So the idea (the company hopes) is they just learn to deal with it.

For the part I bolded, couldnt the parents have established some guidelines before it got out of hand?

Thats my logic in this.

Like with my kids, at a very early age we established they wont get toys every time we go to the toy section in Walmart, Target, etc.

It got to the point they only looked for toys, gifts at Christmas. Even birthdays they didnt look for toys. Either due to funds or just circumstances didnt allow it. No crying when we said no to toys. More than 1 kid, we had some try us, lol. But in the end, no crying.

They were more happy to get cake and go to Chuck E Cheese than get gifts.

They can go to a toy section now and very rarely ask for toys.