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[Maninthemirror]

you do know that it doesn't really matter right? just like the Bible where people can interpret things either figuretively or literally, the same can be said for the Quran. someone somewhere out there can tell his people that it means generally and not battlefield. your interpretation does not mean it's the same one as the 1.6 billion around you.

my point was that the book itself is saying to use violence. it doesn't matter the context. because when is murder ever acceptable in any context?

The book itself only says defend against physical Attacks. Are you forgetting the numerous times it says never be transgressors ?

 

[Mimosa97]

The vileness of this attack hardly needs to be stated, but it's a shame that the people responsible for this garbage will probably go down in history as saintly free speech martyrs.

Please don't try to understand french satire.

We french people have a long history of " hardcore " satire. We like to joke about everyone. Even when kids get killed or raped, you'll find comedians making jokes about that a few months later ..

All this political correctness and " apologizing " for crude humor is a trend that has been slowly killing the freedom of speech in my country. This shit need to stop. You don't have to like it but the cartoonists who died where leftits, humanists, who were against racism, homophobia etc... But that didn't mean they were " soft " with homosexuals or muslims or jews.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

I thought that went without saying, but I suppose that was naive of me.

So yes, I absolutely support Charlie Hebdo's right to publish puerile, racist crap like this. Doesn't mean I have to admire them as heroes.

You're not admiring them as heroes because of what they published. You admire them as heroes because they died for the right to publish it in the first place.

 

[Mononoke]

Anyways I'm out guys. Just wanted to say I love you guys and hope we can all heal. This was a terrible event today and i know it hurts and is confusing. But I truly appreciate this community creating a space to get out emotions and discuss things.

 

[His Majesty]

Isn't he just saying that Muslims in general shouldn't feel they should apologise for something they haven't done? What's wrong with that?

No one is asking for an apology, just a condonement. So he's right...in a way.

 

[FartOfWar]

I thought that went without saying, but I suppose that was naive of me.

So yes, I absolutely support Charlie Hebdo's right to publish puerile, racist crap like this. Doesn't mean I have to admire them as heroes.

Doesn't mean you're correct in implying that they brought this upon themselves either.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Please don't try to understand french satyre.

We french people have a long history of " hardcore " satyre. We like to joke about everyone. Even when kids get killed or raped, you'll find comedians making jokes about that a few months later ..

All this political correctness and " apologizing " for crude humor is a trend that has been slowly killing the freedom of speech in my country. This shit need to stop. You don't have to like it but the cartoonists who died where leftits, humanists, who were against racism, homophobia etc... But that didn't mean they were " soft " with homosexuals or muslims or jews.

Be careful, satire and a satyr are two very different things, lol.

 

[ElTorro]

No all you do is read. It's a religion not a novel. Why would you only accept after reading and not understanding, oh wait that's what terrorists do

If I was an all-mighty person, I'd probably written something that people just need to read to understand immediately. Especially if I'd planed to sell this text as the ultimate guideline for how to act, and especially if I'd known how unintellectual I had made the majority of my people.

Can't blame believers for having that rather rational expectation.

 

[Father_Brain]

curious. which racist is it being racist to in those two cartoons? black people?

Am I really going out on a limb to say that, yes, depicting pregnant Boko Haram sex slaves as welfare queens is fucking racist?

Doesn't mean you're correct in implying that they brought this upon themselves either.

That's a pretty ludicrous interpretation of what I said.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

The book itself only says defend against physical Attacks. Are you forgetting the numerous times it says never be transgressors ?

again, you're missing the point. you can interpret in today's age that Islam is under attack, and the people doing this are just acting out as defending Islam.

so yes. just as you say, these people are following the Quran to the core. they're defending Islam from outside attacks

Am I really going out on a limb to say that, yes, depicting pregnant Boko Haram sex slaves as welfare queens is fucking racist?



That's a pretty ludicrous interpretation of what I said.

considering the sex slaves aren't even living in France, I would call it satire humor. not racist. racist would be showing the sex slaves as monkeys. but then it's a satire newspaper,

 

[orioto]

Please don't try to understand french satyre.

We french people have a long history of " hardcore " satyre. We like to joke about everyone. Even when kids get killed or raped, you'll find comedians making jokes about that a few months later ..

All this political correctness and " apologizing " for crude humor is a trend that has been slowly killing the freedom of speech in my country. This shit need to stop. You don't have to like it but the cartoonists who died where leftits, humanists, who were against racism, homophobia etc... But that didn't mean they were " soft " with homosexuals or muslims or jews.

This and Americans have their hardcore provocative humor to anyway. That's like taking some Louis CK stand up jokes out of context and saying he's the worst guy in the world or something. This is humor.

 

[Mimosa97]

Be careful, satire and a satyr are two very different things, lol.

Oh merde

Thanks

 

[Maninthemirror]

Tell us you understand that exegesis (which you're citing) is always the product of an interpretive community, please.

If you use a defibrillator you can save someone if you use it carelessly in water you can electricute everyone around you. Just because a book says something if you cherry pick, you can cherry pick anything to be evil, just look at the tea party, just look at Maoists

 

[Guy.brush]

If I was an all-mighty person, I'd probably written something that people just need to read to understand immediately. Especially if I'd planed to sell this text as the ultimate guideline for how to act, and especially if I'd known how unintellectual I had made the majority of my people.

Can't blame believers for having that rather rational expectation.

You would think the creator of the universe would be able to plant a deep devotion for him/her/it in every being he/she/it created and made sure that all beings would pray to him/her/it alone.

He/she/it did such a terrible, sloppy job of creating his worshippers and building up his canon. And the fact alone that he/she/it needs them is typical human selfish as fuck.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Just another by-product of decades of failed multicultural policies.

What are multicultural policies set by the government? Like an example where a policy has "failed". From what I read on policies they all like "right to express and share their individual cultural heritage, including their language and religion" followed by rule of law has priority "equality" and so on.

Here is the Australian one:

https://www.dss.gov.au/our-responsi...ticultural-australia/what-is-multiculturalism

When ppl say multicultural policies I have yet to see one policy which doesn't have a logical merit.

 

[Nesotenso]

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/med...lims-not-to-apologize-for-Paris-shooting.html

I don't get the libya angle, but I agree with the sentiment that muslims don't have to apologize everytime a nutcase does something.

 

[Maninthemirror]

again, you're missing the point. you can interpret in today's age that Islam is under attack, and the people doing this are just acting out as defending Islam.

so yes. just as you say, these people are following the Quran to the core. they're defending Islam from outside attacks

Only physical attack is mentioned and nowhere is islam itself physically under attack and there is no threat militarily to the religion itself. It's too widespread to be destroyed so any of that war against islam in this day and age does not apply its not that hard to understand

 

[Fenderputty]

This is insane. I have done no such thing. I would love for you to find a post in this thread where I blame Islam as a whole, or Muslims as a whole, or claim this had anything to do with moderate (or even conservative) Muslims. The attackers were Islamic extremists, and my issue is the absurd way you keep trying to downplay the link to Islam. I am not saying they represent Islam, or that they were following it properly. They believed they were, and that's what motivated them. They were still wrong, but they were still, in their minds, motivated by Islam. No matter how hard you try to downplay that, or point out that they also killed Muslims, doesn't change that. That doesn't make me a bigot, and it's fucking crazy you would jump to that.

To be fair, Muslims have been in defense mode ever since 9/11. Every time an attack like this happens they have to deal with people attacking their entire culture and faith.

Not saying you're doing this.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

Only physical attack is mentioned and nowhere is islam itself physically under attack and there is no threat militarily to the religion itself. It's too widespread to be destroyed so any of that war against islam in this day and age does not apply its not that hard to understand

maybe not for you, but for others, they'll interpret it a different way.

why are you trying so hard to fight against that?

 

[Maninthemirror]

If I was an all-mighty person, I'd probably written something that people just need to read to understand immediately. Especially if I'd planed to sell this text as the ultimate guideline for how to act, and especially if I'd known how unintellectual I had made the majority of my people.

Can't blame believers for having that rather rational expectation.

Quran answers you in verse 3:6-3:9

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

This is good. Where is this from?

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Despite the tragedy and terror born of intolerance, it is comforting to know that humor is a profoundly effective weapon against those who promote it. He will persist very triumphant beyond all the evils that hamper our freedom. There is no force that deletes it nor doctrine. It is a struggle without victory. For colleagues who succumbed to exercise this precious sure that the pencil still sharp and continue the role white and delicious.

Henrique Monteiro

 

[FlyingSaucer]

We french people have a long history of " hardcore " satire. We like to joke about everyone. Even when kids get killed or raped, you'll find comedians making jokes about that a few months later ..

Don't forget children who get raped after being killed, too.

Some people like to punch each other out cold for fun. Well, we like to do it with bad and tasteless jokes, and see how much time you can stay unfazed.

 

[Guy.brush]

I don't get the libya angle, but I agree with the sentiment that muslims don't have to apologize everytime a nutcase does something.

It is not just a nutcase though and those barbarians acted with the "backing" of millions of religious Islamic believers that protested in the streets when the cartoons first hit and lots of them demanded some kind of revenge or blood.

 

[Maninthemirror]

maybe not for you, but for others, they'll interpret it a different way.

why are you trying so hard to fight against that?

Why are you fighting so hard to give relevance to terrorist ideas ? It's hilarious how majority moderate views are maybe true but you are so worried about what terrorists views when you know they are radical and evil

 

[CrunchyB]

This and Americans have their hardcore provocative humor to anyway. That's like taking some Louis CK stand up jokes out of context and saying he's the worst guy in the world or something. This is humor.

Louis CK is pretty tame compared to some European comedians. He's good though!

 

[Jburton]

I would say so. A lot of people had never even heard of these cartoons, and now it's going to be seen around the world, and everyone will know about it. It completely backfired in every way imaginable. Also, it only puts more focus on how much of a problem they are in this society.

Sadly, there are a lot of peaceful Muslims who are going to get caught up in this. So they are only hurting the innocent people of their own religion.

The goal was to punish them by taking their lives, and in that aspect they where unfortunately successful.

 

[Father_Brain]

This and Americans have their hardcore provocative humor to anyway. That's like taking some Louis CK stand up jokes out of context and saying he's the worst guy in the world or something. This is humor.

It's certainly humor. I don't have to agree that it's good humor or good satire or that it isn't right-wing, racist, and xenophobic.

 

[ComputerMKII]

 

[typist]

You didn't think this through.

You're right I didn't. It's far from an ideal solution. But there's a majority of people who value freedom and non-violence that needs to identify the minority who don't share those values. If some people will murder someone just because they say or write something 'wrong' those people need serious rehabilitation/anger management/help. Please forget what I wrote about just testing immigrants that was short sighted of me, let a society that claims to value freedom and non-violence test everyone in that society or who wants access to that society. Make it like desensitisation therapy. Thicken people's skins a little, let sticks and stones break bones and nothing less. Take someone into a room (adults obviously), see how they respond to casual insults. Find out what they deeply believe beforehand, be it political, religious, or just taste-wise. Insult their deeply held beliefs - see how they react. People who are like 'dude, I disagree, but whatever' are cool people who don't escalate to violence. People who freak out, start acting violent or try to escalate the situation need help. Just my opinion but whatever

 

[bishoptl]

Closing this thread. Continue the conversation here.