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Terror attack kills 12 at Paris newspaper - 4 wounded, gunmen identified

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K

kmax

Member
BetterWorldz said:
Can anyone confirm this is a correct way to write "I am Charlie" in Arabic?

B6yQN0ECQAI73gY.jpg
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It says "Anah Charlie" or I'm Charlie.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
Boom Boom Pow said:
it depends on your interpretation of "waging war". To some muslims, they can say the current drone bombings, the caricatures, invasive nature of western culture to be a war.

land can mean the world, or the region. whatever.

the guy asks me to post up where in the Quran does it say to kill people. i just posted it. trying to get around this by trying to quantify it is shit. the book says to kill people. literally.
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I was the guy that asked. And I appreciate you posting that. I'm not trying to challenge you be a smart ass. I am 100% ignorant on the religion. I'm just trying to have a logical discussion, and understand your reasoning.

lefantome said:
of course it's a minority but it's vocal, it widely operativeand therefore is has some support.

For instance, check how the religious law it's implemented: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia
The religion is incompatible with modern ideals and values, to make it compatible people should distance themselves from part of it, this makes the moderates.

It has happened with christianity during a long process, it should happen with Islam too, for the benefit of everyone.
Fundamentalists are scared of progress, and progress is achieved through debate and satire, this is why they hate freedom of speech.

Ignoring the religious issues won't solve the problem, this is why hundreds of european and american born young people have choosen to join a barbaric war in a country that is connected to them only by religion.
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I made a post about 10 pages back. But yeah, I've talked about the idea of, religious views not being compatible with modern/social laws. It's quite the quandary. Millions of religious people DO adapt, and obey and respect modern social laws, even if those laws are technically trumped by their religious views. I'm not sure how a religious person is able to do this. But people do it. Anyways, I agree that we should be looking at the culture surrounding the religious texts. I'm not saying we should ignore these things.

But I also don't think the answer is to say 100% the religion itself is to blame for all of this. I'm really not liking the road people are taking (this idea of outright banning the religion all together). Starting to lump in everyone into ONE thing. Driving out immigrants, and trying to free land of a religion. Doesn't seem practical, and ignores the fact that, the majority of people in a religion are in fact, peaceful, and respect modern/social laws.

That said, I'm 100% ignorant when it comes to Islam. Which is why I was asking people to post text from the book. I'm out of my depth when it comes to what is actually said in the religious texts. The specific issues people have with it, and why they believe it's impossible for the religion to be compatible with modern societies.
 
Captain Europe

Captain Europe

Member
lemmykoopa said:
Regarding free speech: why is it considered ok to mock a religion but not ok to say.. mock fat people?

Because mocking fat people is on a personal level and religion is less so?
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It's not comparable, religion isn't biological, no matter how many people want to compare it to race, gender, sexuality, etc.

And overweight people get mocked all the time.
 
L

lefantome

Member
lemmykoopa said:
Regarding free speech: why is it considered ok to mock a religion but not ok to say.. mock fat people?

Because mocking fat people is on a personal level and religion is less so?
Click to expand...

because a religion is a belief, fat people are people
If it's good satire it would mock their lifestyle not the people themselves.
 
S

StayDead

Member
This is really sad and horrible. I'm not a religious man, but I wish extremists didn;'t exist. The people who warp religion to justify their horrible acts just make it harder and harder for people of different cultures to ever trust each other and it creates nothing but xenophobia.

RIP to all the people who died and I hope they catch the gunmen soon :(
 
C

Circle Jerk

Member
Maninthemirror said:
While they killed 2 muslims... Eh ?
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The amount of shit you are throwing at the wall to try and distance the attackers being Muslim from this is appealing. You can argue that they didn't follow Islam correctly or whatever, but actually trying to say they weren't influenced by Islam (or more specifically their interpretation of it) or that because they killed other Muslims the attack wasn't based on their feelings of Islam being mocked makes you look horrendous.
 
G

Gorger

Member
This whole tragedy has backfired utterly for the terrorists. You can't even enter a single site without seeing Muhammad's mug printed somewhere, and newspapers all across the world are showing his face. Not only that, their actions also feed into the fear and hatemongering of far-right wingers who will exploit this tragedy for a long time just to make the lives for upstanding moderate Muslims even more difficult than it already is. They have already tainted and damage Islam while shaming their prophet more than any satirical comic ever could do. And when they are caught they will just have to spend decades in prison if not the rest of their lives, unless they get killed before that.

Only positive outcome for this is how we see the whole world united with their pens held high, showing the fundamentalists that we will not be bullied to silence by the warped and backwarded way of thinking. .
 
RoyalLaFlame

RoyalLaFlame

Banned
Guys, this one if from another portuguese newspaper. It has a great image of their prophet facepalming with what they did. And a small text I will translate:

"Three man killed 12 people. They want our fear, your fear. They want us to leave our humanity and embrace their radical ways, the only language they know. Yesterday, 12 guilty people were killed. Guilty like all of us. Guilty of believing in freedom. Freedom of speech. They died for it. Standing. Like it should be."
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
Gorger said:
This whole tragedy has backfired utterly for the terrorists. You can't even enter a single site without seeing Muhammad's mug printed somewhere, and newspapers all across the world are showing his face. Not only that, their actions also feed into the fear and hatemongering of far-right wingers who will exploit this tragedy for a long time just to make the lives for upstanding moderate Muslims even more difficult than it already is. They have already tainted and damage Islam while shaming their prophet more than any satirical comic ever could do. And when they are caught they will just have to spend decades in prison if not the rest of their lives, unless they get killed before that.

Only positive outcome for this is how we see the whole world united with their pens held high, showing the fundamentalists that we will not be bullied to silence by the warped and backwarded way of thinking. .
Click to expand...

I would say so. A lot of people had never even heard of these cartoons, and now it's going to be seen around the world, and everyone will know about it. It completely backfired in every way imaginable. Also, it only puts more focus on how much of a problem they are in this society.

Sadly, there are a lot of peaceful Muslims who are going to get caught up in this. So they are only hurting the innocent people of their own religion.
 
M

Maninthemirror

Banned
Boom Boom Pow said:
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"



yes actually. i would like to ban all organized religion. turn every current religious building into a museum. or if it's newly constructed in the last 100 years with no historical significance, burn it down and turn it into a park. or a highrise. whatever
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It says right there, those who wage war against Islam, a military war.


[5:33] On account of this, We prescribed for the children of Israel that whosoever killed a person — unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land — it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and whoso gave life to one, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind. And Our Messengers came to them with clear Signs, yet even after that, many of them commit excesses in the land.


[5:34] The reward of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive to create disorder in the land is only this that they be slain or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on alternate sides, or they be expelled from the land. That shall be a disgrace for them in this world, and in the Hereafter they shall have a great punishment;


[5:35] Except those who repent before you have them in your power. So know that Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
Click to expand...


Whoever wages war against Islam militarily on the religion will get a retaliation until they stop attacking < summary

Eg robbers thieves and murderers will have a punishment even if they repent but those attacking islam militarily will be offered a peace treaty if they stop attacking

Where is the evil nature of Islam here ? Please tell me
 
S

Sayah

Member
Azula said:
I was the guy that asked. And I appreciate you posting that. I'm not trying to challenge you be a smart ass. I am 100% ignorant on the religion. I'm just trying to have a logical discussion, and understand your reasoning.
Click to expand...

Please read verse 5:32 and 5:34, which are right before and after verse 5:33. Broader context is always needed so read some commentary on 5:33 as well.
 
M

MikeDown

Banned
lemmykoopa said:
Regarding free speech: why is it considered ok to mock a religion but not ok to say.. mock fat people?

Because mocking fat people is on a personal level and religion is less so?
Click to expand...
Because obesity isn't a simple choice about eating or not eating healthy food; there are genetic factors that play into the equation that people have no control over. Though that isn't to say that healthier life choices doesn't have an impact. Furthermore, it is more a personal attack, while mocking a religion is more of a broad generalization. Thing about generalizations are they don't apply to everyone, there are plenty of Muslims that are peaceful, good people, while there are many others who commit horrific acts of violence in the name of their religion. Every religion/ideology has wicked people, some more then others. But that is just my two cents
 
X

Xando

Member
Azula said:
I would say so. A lot of people had never even heard of these cartoons, and now it's going to be seen around the world, and everyone will know about it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i read a tweet earlier that was something like "Charlie Hebdo was largely unknown, now you made it immortal".
 
M

Mass_Pincup

Banned
Gorger said:
This whole tragedy has backfired utterly for the terrorists. You can't even enter a single site without seeing Muhammad's mug printed somewhere, and newspapers all across the world are showing his face. Not only that, their actions also feed into the fear and hatemongering of far-right wingers who will exploit this tragedy for a long time just to make the lives for upstanding moderate Muslims even more difficult than it already is. They have already tainted and damage Islam while shaming their prophet more than any satirical comic ever could do. And when they are caught they will just have to spend decades in prison if not the rest of their lives, unless they get killed before that.

Only positive outcome for this is how we see the whole world united with their pens held high, showing the fundamentalists that we will not be bullied to silence by the warped and backwarded way of thinking. .
Click to expand...

Totally, I wasn't even a fan of Charlie Hebdo, I even fought that they went a bit to far with their Mahomet satire in 2011 but now I'm with them 100%.
 
B

Boom Boom Pow

Banned
Azula said:
I was the guy that asked. And I appreciate you posting that. I'm not trying to challenge you be a smart ass. I am 100% ignorant on the religion. I'm just trying to have a logical discussion, and understand your reasoning.
Click to expand...

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

One would reasonably assume this right here is where all the headcutting is comign from. Of course, any reasonable human being (religious or not) would not cut off other people's head and fingers, but the book says it itself.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
Sayah said:
Please read verse 5:32 and 5:34, which are right before and after verse 5:33. Broader context is always needed so read some commentary on 5:33 as well.
Click to expand...

Yes, someone just posted more. But yeah, it's NOT a good thing to cherry pick and take things out of context. I should have known better then that. When I asked someone to post text, I should have asked for more context.

That said, I'm ignorant, and to a degree, I have my own responsibility to educate myself. So I appreciate everyone taking the time to have that conversation. And yes, I'm looking at the overall context of those passages now (which is why, I originally was questioning the context of what they phrase was talking about). Seemed to me, the passage was talking about a war of lands.
 
O

Opto

Banned
This event has unfortunately been the one to make me realize I feel no emotion to these events anymore. I'm not aghast, my core hasn't been shaken. I'm not angry or upset. I am very much not indifferent, but there's no gut reaction. 2014 exhausted me.
 
T

Tugatrix

Member
Color.Morale said:
Guys, this one if from another portuguese newspaper. It has a great image of their prophet facepalming with what they did. And a small text I will translate:

"Three man killed 12 people. They want our fear, your fear. They want us to leave our humanity and embrace their radical ways, the only language they know. Yesterday, 12 guilty people were killed. Guilty like all of us. Guilty of believing in freedom. Freedom of speech. They died for it. Standing. Like it should be."
Click to expand...

"i" is becoming one of my favorite newspapers, I wonder if Luis Osório had his hand on this front page
 
M

Maninthemirror

Banned
Circle Jerk said:
The amount of shit you are throwing at the wall to try and distance the attackers being Muslim from this is appealing. You can argue that they didn't follow Islam correctly or whatever, but actually trying to say they weren't influenced by Islam (or more specifically their interpretation of it) or that because they killed other Muslims the attack wasn't based on their feelings of Islam being mocked makes you look horrendous.
Click to expand...

The amount of shit you are throwing to throw moderates under the bus because you don't like islam is even more appalling and frankly bordering on bigotry
 
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