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Terror attack kills 12 at Paris newspaper - 4 wounded, gunmen identified

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V

Valhelm

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stufte said:
I'd be all for the culling of the herd (across all countries and religions/non religion) if it could be done selectively to eliminate those who only wish to do harm to others. But yah, that's not not really possible.
Click to expand...

Even if that was possible, it's completely impractical. That much death would cause an economic catastrophe of unprecedented scale, and the governments of the world may not be able to handle it.

It's fiction, but the television series the Leftovers is an interesting look at what the removal of far fewer people would look like.
 
B

Boom Boom Pow

Banned
Indrid Cold1 said:
"The prophet is avenged!"

"God is great!"

But alas, religion has nothing to do with this. You are a joke mate.
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Exactly! This has everything to do with religion. They even shouted god is great in arabic. this was an islamic attack. pure and simple. it was done out of a religious belief
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
Indrid Cold1 said:
"The prophet is avenged!"

"God is great!"

But alas, religion has nothing to do with this. You are a joke mate.
Click to expand...

The poster means, millions of people are of this religion, and have no issue with violence and doing these things. So clearly, if it's a minority of people doing it, it's a problem with people (who are doing something in the name of religion) and not the religion itself.

That said, I think we should be looking at the culture surrounding the religious texts. I think those of the religion itself should be doing this as well. I don't agree that the culture/religion itself plays zero role. But I do think some are going about this the wrong way, and acting as if the religion itself is the main catalyst for these actions (that in the text itself, it tells followers to kill anyone that depicts the prophet). If it's 100% the religions fault, then the text would be instructing followers to kill people. Since that is not the case, how is it the religion's fault?
 
B

Boom Boom Pow

Banned
Azula said:
The poster means, millions of people are of this religion, and have no issue with violence and doing these things. So clearly, if it's a minority of people doing it, it's a problem with people (who are doing something in the name of religion) and not the religion itself.

That said, I think we should be looking at the culture surrounding the religious texts. I think those of the religion itself should be doing this as well.
Click to expand...

no, it's a problem with the religion. people can interpret it different way, but it doesn't matter because they're still interpreting it from the same book.

you can say the same it's a problem with Christianity when you have people like the westist baptist church.
 
L

lemmykoopa

Junior Member
Regarding free speech: why is it considered ok to mock a religion but not ok to say.. mock fat people?

Because mocking fat people is on a personal level and religion is less so?
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
Boom Boom Pow said:
no, it's a problem with the religion. people can interpret it different way, but it doesn't matter because they're still interpreting it from the same book.

you can say the same it's a problem with Christianity when you have people like the westist baptist church.
Click to expand...

Can you give me a passage where the religious texts tells its followers they are obligated to kill people (for X things)?

I'm trying to understand your perspective. Also, if your view really is it's the religion's fault, what is your solution? If the majority of Muslims are peaceful, you want to ban a religion because extremists? I'm not really sure where people are coming from, that are saying this is 100% the religion's fault.

EDIT: for the record, I'm not trying to be an apologist. I'm an atheist, and have always viewed all religions as being dangerous. Christianity was partly responsible for some of the worst violence in all of human history. I'm just failing to understand your logic.
 
M

Mael

Member
lemmykoopa said:
Regarding free speech: why is it considered ok to mock a religion but not ok to say.. mock fat people?

Because mocking fat people is on a personal level and religion is less so?
Click to expand...

Did I miss the attacks of fat people gunning down a sports club or something?
 
X

Xando

Member
lemmykoopa said:
Regarding free speech: why is it considered ok to mock a religion but not ok to say.. mock fat people?

Because mocking fat people is on a personal level and religion is less so?
Click to expand...

You can mock fat people all you want, never heard of anyone being shot for mocking fat people.
 
K

Key2001

Member
Scirrocco said:
Man I hope this causes the sort of back lash Sony got for refusing to release The Interview. The attackers at least were directed at sony personally and my have still had info able to hurt them. NBC and CNN have no excuse to be this cowardly.
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to see how many of these new outlets that are refusing the show the cartoons also attacked Sony from pulling The Interview.
 
T

The Llama

Member
ComputerMKII said:
I'm reading that #KillAllMuslims is the 6th biggest trending hashtag on Twitter in the UK

-_-
Click to expand...

I just checked, and these are the trending topics on twitter in the UK right now:

United Kingdom Trends · Change
#JeSuisCharlie
#CharlieHebdo
#cbb2015
#ParisShooting
#cbbbots
Michelle Visage
Katie Hopkins
Perez Hilton
Cheggers

Maybe it was earlier, but honestly seems like someone was just making stuff up.
 
C

Circle Jerk

Member
Azula said:
The poster means, millions of people are of this religion, and have no issue with violence and doing these things. So clearly, if it's a minority of people doing it, it's a problem with people (who are doing something in the name of religion) and not the religion itself.

That said, I think we should be looking at the culture surrounding the religious texts. I think those of the religion itself should be doing this as well. I don't agree that the culture/religion itself plays zero role. But I do think some are going about this the wrong way, and acting as if the religion itself is the main catalyst for these actions (that in the text itself, it tells followers to kill anyone that depicts the prophet). If it's 100% the religions fault, then the text would be instructing followers to kill people. Since that is not the case, how is it the religion's fault?
Click to expand...
Dude literally said " Religion has nothing to do with this no matter how much they want to shout it to others."

He meant what he meant, and trying to explain it away doesn't change that.
 
B

Boom Boom Pow

Banned
Azula said:
Can you give me a passage where the religion tells its followers they are obligated to kill people?
Click to expand...

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Azula said:
Can you give me a passage where the religious texts tells its followers they are obligated to kill people (for X things)?

I'm trying to understand your perspective. Also, if your view really is it's the religion's fault, what is your solution? If the majority of Muslims are peaceful, you want to ban a religion because extremists? I'm not really sure where people are coming from, that are saying this is 100% the religion's fault.

EDIT: for the record, I'm not trying to be an apologist. I'm an atheist, and have always viewed all religions as being dangerous. Christianity was partly responsible for some of the worst violence in all of human history. I'm just failing to understand your logic.
Click to expand...

yes actually. i would like to ban all organized religion. turn every current religious building into a museum. or if it's newly constructed in the last 100 years with no historical significance, burn it down and turn it into a park. or a highrise. whatever
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
Boom Boom Pow said:
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Click to expand...

What does wage war mean?

And why is it talking specifically about a specific land?

EDIT: I appreciate you posting that btw. I'm just trying to understand how that text, is instructions to followers to MURDER someone for depicting the prophet. Saying it's an obligation. That text feels so vague, I'm not sure what it's even talking about.

Circle Jerk said:
Dude literally said " Religion has nothing to do with this no matter how much they want to shout it to others."

He meant what he meant, and trying to explain it away doesn't change that.
Click to expand...

Yeah my bad. He did update his post, and say he didn't mean to say NOTHING.
 
T

ToraShiro

NISA
Azula said:
The poster means, millions of people are of this religion, and have no issue with violence and doing these things. So clearly, if it's a minority of people doing it, it's a problem with people (who are doing something in the name of religion) and not the religion itself.

That said, I think we should be looking at the culture surrounding the religious texts. I think those of the religion itself should be doing this as well. I don't agree that the culture/religion itself plays zero role. But I do think some are going about this the wrong way, and acting as if the religion itself is the main catalyst for these actions (that in the text itself, it tells followers to kill anyone that depicts the prophet). If it's 100% the religions fault, then the text would be instructing followers to kill people. Since that is not the case, how is it the religion's fault?
Click to expand...

This. I think people are getting culture/religion mixed up. If there are places where the religion does not promote these beliefs, people aren't coerced into hate and force, then there is definitely a secondary condition that breeds this behavior. There is something else other than religion that may possibly be tied to the religion, but not explicitly the religion itself.
 
C

ComputerMKII

Banned
The Llama said:
I just checked, and these are the trending topics on twitter in the UK right now:

United Kingdom Trends · Change
#JeSuisCharlie
#CharlieHebdo
#cbb2015
#ParisShooting
#cbbbots
Michelle Visage
Katie Hopkins
Perez Hilton
Cheggers

Maybe it was earlier, but honestly seems like someone was just making stuff up.
Click to expand...

OK, fair enough.

lemmykoopa said:
Regarding free speech: why is it considered ok to mock a religion but not ok to say.. mock fat people?

Because mocking fat people is on a personal level and religion is less so?
Click to expand...

100567830.jpg
Click to expand...

United States - Calorie Numbers Written on the Menus

"As if it would prevent us from eating shit!"
 
B

Boom Boom Pow

Banned
Azula said:
What does wage war mean?

And why is it talking specifically about a specific land?



Yeah my bad. He did update his post, and say he didn't mean to say NOTHING.
Click to expand...

it depends on your interpretation of "waging war". To some muslims, they can say the current drone bombings, the caricatures, invasive nature of western culture to be a war.

land can mean the world, or the region. whatever.

the guy asks me to post up where in the Quran does it say to kill people. i just posted it. trying to get around this by trying to quantify it is shit. the book says to kill people. literally.
 
M

Metal B

Member
lemmykoopa said:
Regarding free speech: why is it considered ok to mock a religion but not ok to say.. mock fat people?

Because mocking fat people is on a personal level and religion is less so?
Click to expand...
There are some differences in only mocking and criticizing. If you just mock people, because you want to be a dick, then people have all the right to call you out for this. But if you try to criticize fat people in a mocking way, then it is okay, since you have a massage.

The mocking of the Islam in the caricatures is the massage. You should be able to mock the religion without being called out, censored or getting killed. It's about the freedom of speech by critics the religion in every possible way. This includes mocking. There are no special rules for the religion, becauce if you make them, then there isn't any freedom of speech.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
Boom Boom Pow said:
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"



yes actually. i would like to ban all organized religion. turn every current religious building into a museum. or if it's newly constructed in the last 100 years with no historical significance, burn it down and turn it into a park. or a highrise. whatever
Click to expand...

Uh, how would you go about banning all religions, when the majority of the world...is of some religion. That's just not reality. Apart of living in a civilized society, is realizing that everyone has their own views. It's about learning to live together with different people and different cultures.

It's not like all of humanity is a singular entity. And as I said, if the majority of people of religions are peaceful, I don't really see how banning religions is a solution that makes sense.
 
C

Circle Jerk

Member
lemmykoopa said:
Regarding free speech: why is it considered ok to mock a religion but not ok to say.. mock fat people?

Because mocking fat people is on a personal level and religion is less so?
Click to expand...

It's weird you would chose the overweight considering they're by far one of the most mocked group of people right now in the west. Negative stereotypes of entire countries are based on obesity.
 
L

lefantome

Member
Azula said:
The poster means, millions of people are of this religion, and have no issue with violence and doing these things. So clearly, if it's a minority of people doing it, it's a problem with people (who are doing something in the name of religion) and not the religion itself.

That said, I think we should be looking at the culture surrounding the religious texts. I think those of the religion itself should be doing this as well. I don't agree that the culture/religion itself plays zero role. But I do think some are going about this the wrong way, and acting as if the religion itself is the main catalyst for these actions (that in the text itself, it tells followers to kill anyone that depicts the prophet). If it's 100% the religions fault, then the text would be instructing followers to kill people. Since that is not the case, how is it the religion's fault?
Click to expand...

of course it's a minority but it's vocal, it widely operativeand therefore is has some support.

For instance, check how the religious law it's implemented: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia
The religion is incompatible with modern ideals and values, to make it compatible people should distance themselves from part of it, this makes the moderates.

It has happened with christianity during a long process, it should happen with Islam too, for the benefit of everyone.
Fundamentalists are scared of progress, and progress is achieved through debate and satire, this is why they hate freedom of speech.

Ignoring the religious issues won't solve the problem, this is why hundreds of european and american born young people have choosen to join a barbaric war in a country that is connected to them only by religion.
 
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