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Terrorist attack: Oslo, Norway bomb + shooting. Death toll 75+. Suspect caught.

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RustyNails said:
He should have his day in court. As bad as that sounds, I'd say it's important to not forget who we are in testing times.
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His day in court is all that this person wants. Giving him his day in court means he wins. Psycho's like this do it for attention and some retarded sense of doing the right thing.
 
RustyNails said:
He should have his day in court. As bad as that sounds, I'd say it's important to not forget who we are in testing times.
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I hope that type of public platform doesn't afford him the opportunity to become a martyr. I do not welcome far-right narrative being given that level of exposure
 
Dreams-Visions said:
Fucking american 24-hours news. Fuck it right in the ass.

1.) HLN - Talking about Charlie Sheen and his "goddesses". Before that LaToya Jackson talking about MJ and her new book.

2.) MSNBC - Lockup prison show

3.) CNN - "Most Notorious Crimes" - 2Pac & Biggie, Zodiac Killings, Black Dollia

4.) FOX News - Obama/National Debt


It's been pretty much this all day. How does this happen.
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24 hour news isnt actually 24 hours. Their newsrooms are empty Friday nights
 
Big-E said:
His day in court is all that this person wants. Giving him his day in court means he wins. Psycho's like this do it for attention and some retarded sense of doing the right thing.
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he's not going to be too happy being judged by the whole country in court. This guy had a family that weren't complete nutjobs, so its not going to be easy for him, or some kind of parade of his crimes.
 
cutmeamango said:
There is simply not enough justice to be done in cases like this. But since he is alive they shouldn't let him speak a word. Just like in football games TV doesn't show the guy that invades the field, this guy shouldn't be able to parade his reasons and ideals.
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The existence of such people should be erased from history.
 
Big-E said:
His day in court is all that this person wants. Giving him his day in court means he wins. Psycho's like this do it for attention and some retarded sense of doing the right thing.
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OK, and what's your plan? Like it or not, trials are the way of society to tell people they did the wrong thing and punish them for that.
 
Big-E said:
His day in court is all that this person wants. Giving him his day in court means he wins. Psycho's like this do it for attention and some retarded sense of doing the right thing.
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What does "he wants his day in court" even mean? Do you think he gets to read his manifesto to the judge or something? Of course not. What he really wanted to do was kill a bunch of people. He already "won". You can't abandon the very concept of a justice system just because you think he's excited about his court date or some ridiculous shit like that.
 
theignoramus said:
Norwegian Muslims already fucking condemned it, hours and hours ago, before the facts were even in. Why do you demand the "good and decent" in the Muslim community issue a statement but no other group? This post reeks of bigotry.
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You should learn to read more carefully, because I did allude to other groups. Why didn't I specifically mention other groups? Because Muslim extremists have been responsible for a disproportionately large ratio of the terrorist attacks in this last decade. Further, regarding terrorism and issues like the Rushdie fatwa and the Dutch cartoon controversy, even moderate Muslim groups have been less than vocal in their opposition to the associated violence and intimidation on the part of fanatics.

If I seem to insinuate that your average Muslim is more prone to terrorism, or any other crime, you misunderstand me. If I appear to suggest that normal religious people are more prone to violence than irreligious people, understand that this is not and never has been my view.

I believe religion enshrines a number of ideas that are conducive to or lead to favorable conditions for extremism. I believe extremism in any form is bad, and that religion is not the only or main or necessary source of it. If the disgusting child murderer was partially influenced by his religious views to take lives, I do not think that can or should be interpreted as a mark against moderate religious people, and I certainly wouldn't consider religion solely accountable either. If that's not good enough for people who are itching to play the anti-religious bigotry card, I don't know what else I can do. I've represented my opinions truthfully and I trust I don't hope for too much when I ask others to do the same.
 
Joe Shlabotnik said:
What does "he wants his day in court" even mean? Do you think he gets to read his manifesto to the judge or something? Of course not.
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Exactly. He only gets to produce evidence that is relevant to his guilt or innocence. If he tried making some speech he'd be cut off. That is not relevant to the case.
 
Joe Shlabotnik said:
What does "he wants his day in court" even mean? Do you think he gets to read his manifesto to the judge or something? Of course not. What he really wanted to do was kill a bunch of people. He already "won". You can't abandon the very concept of a justice system just because you think he's excited about his court date or some ridiculous shit like that.
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Well, thats probably the thing he achieved, but I think he did have some political goal, otherwise he wouldnt have picked his targets so specifically.
 
and just like that....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/22/anders-behring-breivik-id_n_907513.html

the media brings the 'GAMES turns you voilent' portion into the debate



On a Facebook account that Norwegian media outlets have attributed to Breivik, he describes himself as having Christian, conservative views. He says he enjoys hunting, the games World of Warcraft and Modern Warfare 2, and lives in Oslo. He also lists political analysis and stock analysis as interests.
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why.....why....WHY do they need to force the gaming factor again and again. If a killer here loves Angry birds will we hear the next murderer as a gamer who loved Angry Birds?
 
Even mass murderers are entitled to their day in court. That is of course if you believe in the Western concept of justice.
 
planar1280 said:
and just like that....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/22/anders-behring-breivik-id_n_907513.html

the media brings the 'GAMES turns you voilent' portion into the debate



why.....why....WHY do they need to force the gaming factor again and again. If a killer here loves Angry birds will we hear the next murderer as a gamer who loved Angry Birds?
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It's so annoying how the media never seems to consider the possibility that some psychos like violent games because they're inclined to violence, not the other way around.

Proxy said:
Even mass murderers are entitled to their day in court. That is of course if you believe in the Western concept of justice.
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You're right. It's important to remember that we seek to give criminals a fair trial not to show them mercy or sympathy, but out of respect for basic human rights, and to avoid the presumption of guilt that led to the mistreatment, maiming, and deaths of so many innocent people before we practiced due process.

nib95 said:
Fuck off with that shit. And Muslim Norwegian Muslims singled out to condemn it? Seriously.... No one should be singled out to condemn this, though I can't imagine anyone sane minded who wouldn't. I do despise this discrimination against Muslims though. Every little or major thing that happens and everyone expects apologies or action from Muslims even if they aren't responsible. It's rather disgusting.

On a side note, this murder spree seems more politically motivated than religious. He targeted a camp that is geared towards a social political agenda(?), and the bombs went off in government buildings. Not sure religion comes in to it at all, but we'll know more soon.
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For some people, religion and politics are synonymous. I addressed the rest of your points in my earlier post.
 
Ugh.

I just read the "80 dead" update on BBC & CBC. This is actually like something out of a horror movie. It's both sad and disgusting just how much damage a single person can do.
 
Monocle said:
Replace Muslim with religious extremist and everything I said still applies. Religion and extremism have always made for a nasty combo.
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Fuck off with that shit. And Muslim Norwegian Muslims singled out to condemn it? Seriously.... No one should be singled out to condemn this, though I can't imagine anyone sane minded who wouldn't. I do despise this discrimination against Muslims though. Every little or major thing that happens and everyone expects apologies or action from Muslims even if they aren't responsible. It's rather disgusting.

On a side note, this murder spree seems more politically motivated than religious. He targeted a camp that is geared towards a social political agenda(?), and the bombs went off in government buildings. Not sure religion comes in to it at all, but we'll know more soon.
 
planar1280 said:
why.....why....WHY do they need to force the gaming factor again and again. If a killer here loves Angry birds will we hear the next murderer as a gamer who loved Angry Birds?
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Well, I think it's clear that videogames enshrine a number of ideas that are conducive to or lead to favorable conditions for extremism. I believe extremism in any form is bad, and that videogames are not the only or main or necessary source of it. If the disgusting child murderer was partially influenced by his videogames to take lives, I do not think that can or should be interpreted as a mark against moderate gamers, and I certainly wouldn't consider the videogames solely accountable either. If that's not good enough for people who are itching to play the anti-videogame bigotry card, I don't know what else I can do.
 
I just got back home and now the death toll is ten times higher than when I left. Is there any clue what the motive was behind this? Is he just some anti-government nut like Timothy McVeigh? Did he have any accomplices?
 
nib95 said:
Fuck off with that shit. And Muslim Norwegian Muslims singled out to condemn it? Seriously.... No one should be singled out to condemn this, though I can't imagine anyone sane minded who wouldn't. I do despise this discrimination against Muslims though. Every little or major thing that happens and everyone expects apologies or action from Muslims even if they aren't responsible. It's rather disgusting.

On a side note, this murder spree seems more politically motivated than religious. He targeted a camp that is geared towards a social political agenda(?), and the bombs went off in government buildings. Not sure religion comes in to it at all, but we'll know more soon.
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agreed on all counts.
 
I'm not sure how to process what has happened in and to Norway. Feel hollow.

Which is insignificant to the pain, agony, and sorrow that must be felt by all those directly affected. Sorry.
 
Ether_Snake said:
Relax, they mention his listed interests.
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Exactly. It's a small article, and likely the journalist was already scrambling for details. We know nothing about this monster other than the little that has been revealed via FB and apparently some forum he frequented.
 
This is horrible. I am absolutely shocked at the death toll of 80+. I was thinking it would stay at 20-30 (which was bad enough). I never thought that many people would die from a single gun men, were automatics used? I give my condolences to Norway and condemn any terrorist attack, no matter what the sick bastard that did it's motivation was.
 
Wes said:
Just heard that latest death toll figure. Completely harrowing. Utterly horrific loss of life.
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The whole thing about the shooter dressing up as a cop and beckoning kids to come closer before gunning them down is terrifying beyond belief. I just try to imagine myself in those kids' shoes and it's the most horrible thing I can think of.
 
joseph1594 said:
This is horrible. I am absolutely shocked at the death toll of 80+. I was thinking it would stay at 20-30 (which was bad enough). I never thought that many people would die from a single gun men, were automatics used? I give my condolences to Norway and condemn any terrorist attack, no matter what the sick bastard that did it's motivation was.
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It gives me a little chill to see this event at the top of Wikipedia's spree killings organized by death toll list.
 
It's not the day in court that matters, it's the attention. The judge may not listen to him, but the media will, opportunists seeing a new icon to cash in will, and with that it doesn't matter how many years he spends in prison, he got what he wanted. I guess that's what Big-E meant too.

He will certainly be judged and convicted and whatever else. He knew that already and counted on living or he would have shot himself.
 
Monocle said:
You should learn to read more carefully, because I did allude to other groups. Why didn't I specifically mention other groups? Because Muslim extremists have been responsible for a disproportionately large ratio of the terrorist attacks in this last decade. Further, regarding terrorism and issues like the Rushdie fatwa and the Dutch cartoon controversy, even moderate Muslim groups have been less than vocal in their opposition to the associated violence and intimidation on the part of fanatics.

If I seem to insinuate that your average Muslim is more prone to terrorism, or any other crime, you misunderstand me. If I appear to suggest that normal religious people are more prone to violence than irreligious people, understand that this is not and never has been my view.

I believe religion enshrines a number of ideas that are conducive to or lead to favorable conditions for extremism. I believe extremism in any form is bad, and that religion is not the only or main or necessary source of it. If the disgusting child murderer was partially influenced by his religious views to take lives, I do not think that can or should be interpreted as a mark against moderate religious people, and I certainly wouldn't consider religion solely accountable either. If that's not good enough for people who are itching to play the anti-religious bigotry card, I don't know what else I can do. I've represented my opinions truthfully and I trust I don't hope for too much when I ask others to do the same.
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why dont you demand a condemnation from anti immigration groups, since at the time of the post I responded to, it was well established the gunman had links to right wing, anti-immigration groups? But according to you, Muslims (especially Muslims, you say) must come forth and speak out against crimes which they had nothing to do with? Fuck that and fuck you. would also you have minority groups responsible for crimes rates out of proportion to their number offer public condemnation for every crime that could conceivably be traced to them?
 
Straight up diabolical evil this is. Tomorrow I am lucky enough to be going to a family wedding. I will be able to say hello to my family and friends, share laughs and hug them, eat and drink and enjoy the beautiful summer day with my beautiful wife. 80+ people that are just like all of us no matter our sex/age/religion/political affiliation etc. will ever be able to do the same. This story just makes me want to fucking puke. I don't get it and never want to. Life is too short.
 
theignoramus said:
why dont you demand a condemnation from anti immigration groups, since at the time of the post I responded to, it was well established the gunman had links to right wing, anti-immigration groups? But according to you, Muslims (especially Muslims, you say) must come forth and speak out against crimes which they had nothing to do with? Fuck that and fuck you. would also you have minority groups responsible for crimes rates out of proportion to their number offer public condemnation for every crime that could conceivably be traced to them?
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Talk to me in the atheism thread once you've learned how to conduct a passionate conversation without resorting to personal attacks.
 
I haven't been following this too closely but if it was 80+ on a youth camp does that mean most were kids/teens? Either way, I can't even comprehend killing 80 people. What a scum bag, piece of shit.
 
OSLO, Norway (AP) — Police say a Norwegian man arrested after a massacre of at least 80 summer campers at an island retreat is a right-winger with anti-Muslim views, but they don't know whether that was a factor in the attacks.

National police chief Sveinung Sponheim told public broadcaster NRK that the suspected gunman's Internet postings "suggest that he has some political traits directed toward the right, and anti-Muslim views, but if that was a motivation for the actual act remains to be seen."
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I hate Muslims since they are terrorists . . . so I'll express my outrage with a terrorist attack.

I really hate this fuck-head.
 
Monocle said:
It gives me a little chill to see this event at the top of Wikipedia's spree killings organized by death toll list.
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Holy shit I had never heard of the Tsuyama massacre!

Mutsuo Toi cut the electricity line to the village of Kaio on the evening of 20 May, which left the community in darkness. At around 1:30 am on 21 May, he killed his 76-year-old grandmother by decapitating her with an axe.[2] Then he strapped two flashlights to his head and prowled through the village entering the homes of his neighbours. He killed 29 neighbours (27 of whom died at the scene of the incident, while two others were fatally wounded, died of their injuries later)[3] and seriously injured three others in about an hour and half using a Browning shotgun, a Japanese sword and an axe. This was almost half of the residents of the small community.[2] At dawn he committed suicide by shooting himself in the chest.[4]
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Big-E said:
His day in court is all that this person wants. Giving him his day in court means he wins. Psycho's like this do it for attention and some retarded sense of doing the right thing.
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But that's the core principle behind civilized society: fair trial. Of course, he's already guilty beyond any doubt. Nothing he can say or do will change his fate. But we don't do extra-judicial killings (which is why US' kill order on Awlaki is disturbing to many). We wouldn't have had nuremberg trials or ICC trials otherwise.
 
Darklord said:
I haven't been following this too closely but if it was 80+ on a youth camp does that mean most were kids/teens? Either way, I can't even comprehend killing 80 people. What a scum bag, piece of shit.
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I say take him out back and shoot him.
 
Dice said:
Well, I think it's clear that videogames enshrine a number of ideas that are conducive to or lead to favorable conditions for extremism. I believe extremism in any form is bad, and that videogames are not the only or main or necessary source of it. If the disgusting child murderer was partially influenced by his videogames to take lives, I do not think that can or should be interpreted as a mark against moderate gamers, and I certainly wouldn't consider the videogames solely accountable either. If that's not good enough for people who are itching to play the anti-videogame bigotry card, I don't know what else I can do.
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i want to post citizenkaneclap.gif, but feel like it would be in bad taste considering the thread.

my sympathies to the people of Norway... it was bad enough when they went to bed last night, but waking up and realizing the magnitude of what happened... damn. a guy systematically stalking and killing so many kids is just some horror movie shit, and is even more disturbing to me than a McVeigh-esque bomber.
 
Monocle said:
You're right. It's important to remember that we seek to give criminals a fair trial not to show them mercy or sympathy, but out of respect for basic human rights, and to avoid the presumption of guilt that led to the mistreatment, maiming, and deaths of so many innocent people before we practiced due process.
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Well said, sir.
 
how long did it take any authorities with weapons to get to the island? would it have made a difference? we have people go on spree's in the states and they usually get killed or taken by force pretty quick.

what a sad day for humanity.
 
JetBlackPanda said:
how long did it take any authorities with weapons to get to the island? would it have made a difference? we have people go on spree's in the states and they usually get killed or taken by force pretty quick.

what a sad day for humanity.
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island is only accessible by boat and there was confusion due to the blast, it took awhile for police to reach the island.
 
Monocle said:
Further, regarding terrorism and issues like the Rushdie fatwa and the Dutch cartoon controversy, even moderate Muslim groups have been less than vocal in their opposition to the associated violence and intimidation on the part of fanatics.
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You are a very, very ignorant person. I should stress the 'very' part some more. Idiots have been posting retarded shit like "lolz where are all the moderate muslims?" for years now, completely oblivious to having their heads being planted so far up their asses that they can't see anything else but their own shit. You are better than that. At least, from your posts you seem intelligent. I'll just post what I said in the Islamic thread. sigh. Every mainstream muslim group has been condemning terrorism for years. Muslims everywhere have been speaking out against terrorism and extremism. But the western media doesn't care (neither does Arab media, for that matter). Academics, intellectuals, scholars, Imams, professionals, students, practically a person from every facet of life has spoken out on the issue. Muslims are sick and tired of explaining everything over and over, and despite that there are still people who go "well why dont muslims say anything hmmmmm?". Shia Islam is slightly more heirarchical and structured compared to Sunni Islam, and the highest ranking clerics of Shias released a fatwa against suicide bombing. The Imams of Mecca and Medina mosques both denounced it. A simple google or youtube search yields the results, but people want to propagate the ignorance some more.

As for Pakistan, again, the squeaky wheel get the oil. Only when a no name dumb hick mullah in Pakistan backwaters says something retarded, it makes the global headlines. The loudest of the bunch make the news. Extremism is routinely denounced everyday. A group of 50 highest ranking scholars got together in Pakistan to draft a declaration against terrorism and suicide bombing sometime around 2005, and they released it. But no one heard of them. Recently, another prominent cleric from Pakistan, a well known scholar released a 600 page fatwa against terrorism and suicide bombing. But no, no one cares about these things. It's always the frothing beardy guy with DEATH TO USA slogans on the TV.

And just two months ago, the muslim peace coalition march happened in NY where about 100 imams took part in a show of condemnation of terrorism, ending of wars and fixing America. The chief cleric of Al Azhar University from Egypt, the oldest Islamic Institution in history also denounced terrorism in a big way. Again, no one knows about any of this because it's not sensationalist. Peace is boring.
 
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