-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Tetsuya Takahashi's message on Xenoblade Chronicles 2
- Thread starter MomoQca
- Start date
LizardKing
Member
I am curious if you think a woman who sexualizes herself is being degrading to herself or other women? Or is it only the men who then view her in her sexualized way that are being sexist? Frankly the view that sexualization of women is degreading or sexist is the actual sexism. You wouldnt think it was degrading if it was a sexualized male. And to think female sexualization is degrading is degrading to women. Many of whom embrace the sexualization of their bodies. It's like you are telling them they should be ashamed for being supportive of something that they should find sexist and degrading.
The real way to fight sexism is to embrace sexualization as well as intellect, strength etc.
Neoleo2143
Member
It looks like 3 drivers and 3 blades are on the field at max for the party but it looks like at least 8 members are significant to the story party.
Look, I'm not going to respond to the posters thinking that sexualized female video game characters are not an issue. They aren't worth my time tbh, and I'm most likely not worth theirs.
And I will bring this shit up in every Xenoblade 2 thread if we see yet another instance of this issue. For example, if a new female character with sexualized clothing is revealed I will be there. You're welcome to ignore me. I don't intend to derail threads, but I will voice my opinion on this.
I agree with you that a woman can dress however she wants, that's of course none of my business. I take issue with the portrayal of fictional video game characters, mostly designed by men, catering to a specific audience of straight male teenagers.
LizardKing
Member
You don't see anything wrong with having a belief that makes women who want to dress like that or sexualize themselves in other ways feel like they are doing something wrong? You are creating the negative stigma behind it.
I'm going to take this to PM's from now on.
Same here, I knew the style looked familiar.
You can bring it up in the thread that is made for said character reveal or where she first shows up and I would gladly discuss it with you. Would be neat if you wouldn't bring this shit up in threads like this one.
This one is about the statements of the dev regarding the story he wants to write, not the skimpy outfit of that character. That's the definition of derailing. And saying people who don't want that stuff in every Xenoblade related thread aren't worth your time is a pretty bold statement.
Again, make a thread about the issue where you can discuss it instead of bringing it up multiple times in unrelated threads, derailing the topic at hand.
And since I'm part of the derailment by now I'll stop posting in here.
http://mashable.com/2015/05/27/swimsuit-police/#SIlpMzpfBgqP
Wasn't long ago that showing too much skin was systematically treated as an actual crime.
Of course, once bareness became more accepted, many men used that as a new excuse to not treat (or view) women as humans, hence the dialogue gamers have about this topic these days. No matter what progress women have made, the Patriarch will adapt and subsist with the times.
The thing though is: it is increasing apparent that Xenoblade 2 is more of a self-inserted title then just commercial art. If you are going to describe one's work in such a demeaning manner, you're also describing the said person(s) who created such things as that. So, if you describe this Pyra character as something made with creepy intent, you are basically calling Tesuya Takahashi and/or Saito and/or anyone who approved her design as creeps. Us humans have a bad habit of casually making accusations despite the fact that it's a heavy thing to do and if you're going to do such a thing, you better anticipate the weight of a such a action.
Wasn't long ago that showing too much skin was systematically treated as an actual crime.
Of course, once bareness became more accepted, many men used that as a new excuse to not treat (or view) women as humans, hence the dialogue gamers have about this topic these days. No matter what progress women have made, the Patriarch will adapt and subsist with the times.
The thing though is: it is increasing apparent that Xenoblade 2 is more of a self-inserted title then just commercial art. If you are going to describe one's work in such a demeaning manner, you're also describing the said person(s) who created such things as that. So, if you describe this Pyra character as something made with creepy intent, you are basically calling Tesuya Takahashi and/or Saito and/or anyone who approved her design as creeps. Us humans have a bad habit of casually making accusations despite the fact that it's a heavy thing to do and if you're going to do such a thing, you better anticipate the weight of a such a action.
Eh, if only. Unfortunately, the Internet happened.
Anyway, I agree with what was said above about not derailing the thread any longer.
TheListOfToddicho
Member
I appreciate his honesty, it's refreshing. I hope this game is good, as I loved X despite its light story.
Glad to hear they'll be focusing on the story as well as exploration equally though sadly I still haven't had the pleasure of playing XCX since I never bothered with WiiU but here's hoping XCX and XBC get ports eventually. It's kinda odd how there don't seem to be any mechs at all in their game though.
This post can't possibly be serious.
Yes, combining infantile facial features and massive boobs completely out of proportion to one's body frame is creepy, and it's ubiquitous in videogames is a problem with how women are viewed and treated in the industry -- primarily, vehicles for sex appeal regardless of whether it makes any goddamn narrative or physical sense.
Yes, by extension the people who make and approve these designs are doing something creepy. No, this is not a particularly "heavy" thing to say and does not require that one pass sweeping judgements on the totality of those people.
No, this game is made by a major publisher to sell as an entertainment product to a worldwide audience; we have no basis for distinguishing personal and commercial considerations in the game and character designs and every element of the game is probably a combination of both.
No, this is not the same as women who are actual people with free agency choosing to dress themselves in revealing clothing.
No, the fact that certain Japanese subcultures have issues with the sexual objectification of women in their consumer media is not above criticism because Japan is a foreign country. Bad things do not stop being bad because they are in another country, though their true nature is more likely to be misunderstood by outsiders. No, the true nature of that character's massive balloon tits and miniskirt are not a subtle point of Japanese culture that is inscrutable to outsiders.
Cheesecake is not intrinsically bad; I think Wayforward for instance makes the aesthetic work in their games. The fact that it is so ubiquitous in games that ostensibly want their audiences to take their worlds, stories, and characters seriously, and that said cheesecake is overwhelmingly made to appeal to a young, horny, male audience is bad.
James Scott
Banned
I think there are like 6 party members at once. Pyre is kind of an assist to Rex and various characters can also have assists.
A real shame this thread turned into yet another "objectification in games" debate. When it could have turned into a GALAXY EXPRESS 999 thread. Just watched it for the first time and good lord is it glorious. Best anime film I've seen in ages. Totally on board with Chronicals 2 now, even though the last 2 didn't grab me (loved xenogears, however).
QuixoticNeutral
Member
Pardon me for a moment as I steer this thread back to Xenoblade:
From the Treehouse demo, it looks as though text in the UI has been enlarged across the board, likely for the specific purpose of being friendlier to handheld/tabletop as a standard method of play. I played a big chunk of both XC and XCX on the Wii U GamePad, where this was definitely a problemcompounded in the case of XCX by the resolution of the GamePad screen. So I've had an eye on this, and thus far the signs are encouraging. Menus and on-screen indicators all look much improved for navigation/readability from the little we've seen.
From the Treehouse demo, it looks as though text in the UI has been enlarged across the board, likely for the specific purpose of being friendlier to handheld/tabletop as a standard method of play. I played a big chunk of both XC and XCX on the Wii U GamePad, where this was definitely a problemcompounded in the case of XCX by the resolution of the GamePad screen. So I've had an eye on this, and thus far the signs are encouraging. Menus and on-screen indicators all look much improved for navigation/readability from the little we've seen.
I still feel the UI is waay too big, possibly even for the handheld mode. So yeah, hoping for a UI scale setting. Really not sure if I can expect one or not, cause I remember XB and XBX being really weird with their options - lots of things to tinker with and even some I really don't see anyone caring about (like zoom speed, who keeps zooming in and out?), but still missing some crucial stuff. Guess we'll see.
I watched the Treehouse stream again last night on my phone (Nexus 6P) and honestly, I didn't find it very concerning. The screen is smaller than the Switch's and I could definitely enjoyt he scenery more than I expected. It'd be great to have more options, but of all the design decisions made, the UI is actually the one I can get behind the most.
There are some in-game screenshots on the eShop. I was also thinking the UI might be too big even for handheld mode, but the size is actually pretty good. Same can't be said for TV mode, of course.
I'm still hoping the footage we've seen so far just wasn't yet optimized for docked mode. Explains the oversized UI and might even be the reason why the game looks weirdly rough so far.
(While UI scaling would be nice, I definitely hope that it'll also automatically changes the UI size when switching from one mode to the other. Are there any Switch games yet that do something like this?)
Joe Condor
Banned
A real shame this thread turned into yet another "objectification in games" debate. When it could have turned into a GALAXY EXPRESS 999 thread. Just watched it for the first time and good lord is it glorious. Best anime film I've seen in ages. Totally on board with Chronicals 2 now, even though the last 2 didn't grab me (loved xenogears, however).
Is that shot from the 1979 movie?
Oh yes, this would be nice too. No doubt the devs have ways of detecting the mode, so I'm sure this could be done if they wanted to do it.
I'll have to take a look at the eshop pics on the Switch when I get home. I'm sure the big UI is at least something I could get used to in handheld mode, but the thing is, I'm not planning on playing it in handheld mode at all if possible. Maybe when grinding. But when I actually progress - see new areas, watch cut scenes etc - I'm going to be playing on the TV.
well fuck you too, im just giving my fucking opinion on a fucking open forum
Joe Condor
Banned
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Everyone pls calm down
She not T H I C C enough.
Well, looking at that image, she's not that bad. Those seem some A2-level hips.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
admiraltaftbar
Member
It seriously blows my mind that people say XCX was some amazing story that does politically charged message better than any western studio when costumes like this exists and literally half the characters are so grating that it almost ruins the game. XCX is an amazing game hampered by all its garbage anime tropes and I have little to no hope that Xenoblade chronicles 2 wont have the exact same issues if not worse with "hot sword girl".
Dark Cloud
Member
I'm so glad I don't care about this stuff about what clothes who is wearing. Just show me some more gameplay, the titans and some side quests.
You could do most of the side story quests without Lin and with a party of your choice. And the side story quests were the ones treating very serious topics like xenophobia, crime, moral dilemma and such.
AquaWateria
Member
It seems like every Xenoblade thread gets derailed over character designs.
Like I get you don't like it but doing it every single time can get a bit tiring.
Like I get you don't like it but doing it every single time can get a bit tiring.
Hard to set a dialogue if you have already decided that the design is bad.
I would say dialogue is not welcomed by both sides
I wonder if it's allowed and ok that when somebody makes a new thread about this game (on news about story, gameplay, music or other topics) can establish some basic rules to post in those threads in order to avoid the Xeno-curse we have on GAF.
Neoleo2143
Member
Yeah. I'm hoping to do a very large breakdown of everything shown off in the Treehouse video because there's a bunch of really cool stuff that I like a lot (namely a lot of choices on the combat look really interesting) and want to compile into a readable format. But because of how threads on Xeno games get constantly derailed, it's kinda killing my motivation.
Mister Wolf
Member
Do it in the twitter thread.
Please do that. You do strong analysis and I want to hear some people's ideas on the combat because it didn't look like it addressed what I wanted it to address. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it and what they were trying to do.
Okami Haundo
Member
Any word on alternate costumes/looks for characters? The world and combat seem right up my alley, but I don't wanna stare at anime wank bait for 100 hours. I can deal with the balloon boobs if I can at least let sword girl wear normal clothing. I remember the Wii game letting you change outfits.
Neoleo2143
Member
If I have to say what it centers on right now. It's that the timing elements (which have their roots in Chrono Trigger's enemy movement) which form the best strategic backbone of the combat in the Xenoblade games and the primary gameplay compensation for the lack of a traditional mana pool are put significantly to the forefront of the combat design here more than ever. There's also smaller stuff like Healing being tied to movement and consequently, not attacking and optimizing arts usage. The guy at the treehouse didn't show off too much of the system's potential as they were missing timings all over the place.
That is a very misleading example to use for both sexes. We asians do look younger, but the people in those photos obviously have ample makeup on and effort put into their looks for the purpose of media.
ThatChairMan
Member
Please go ahead with this. I've been rewatching it a lot and have noticed a lot of interesting things with it as well, and either a new thread or a large breakdown centered on gameplay would be a nice place to talk about it.
Nope, nothing has been said regarding equipment altering character appearance. It's been a feature in the other 2 games though, so hopefully it's also in this one.
Mister Wolf
Member
They showed some of the menus in the treehouse. Very doubtful that Blades get different outfits as they are considered the weapons of the game.
Should also be noted that we have a Twitter and Webpage Updates Thread for non-character-design-related discussion, for those that want to discuss the game's news as we get them. Thanks to Waji for making it 
Okami Haundo
Member
Thanks for the response! I'm absolutely certain that I'll buy the game either way, but as someone who isn't into that sort of thing it'd be nice.
Needs to be a masterpiece because I'm not feeling the VA or faces of the characters. God I hope you can change outfits like In the first game Or I wont be able to play this in public due to all the sword waifus. No problems with the music as it sounds phenomenal.