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TF2 Engineer update incoming?

Wren said:
Ouch, so did he actually cheat in some way to get it then? Seems a little harsh for simply figuring out an algorithm.
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I doubt he just "figured it out" since he actually got banned. If they didn't want him exploiting the algorithm (I remain unconvinced that it's simple enough that he could actually figure it out in only two days), they would have just taken away the wrench.

Drunken F00l is the one who wrote the idling program in the past.
 
demosthenes said:
Play against teams that don't just let demos lobe grenades/stickies non stop...
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Play with teams that actually push forward and provide cover...

If your team isn't constantly assaulting the roof anyway, you're going to lose regardless of how many engies they have.
 
Wren said:
Ouch, so did he actually cheat in some way to get it then? Seems a little harsh for simply figuring out an algorithm.
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For what I have read he worked out a system or timeline where the wrenches are given out, it's also possible someone from valve told him but I doubt that, he might have even dug out a time sheet from the master server or something, after all he did make idle software in the past to earn weapon drops without actually booting up tf2.
 
Whatever the story is I hope he continues to run the item site, that thing saves so much hassle if your idling.

It's also disappointing to read about wrench #27. I honestly thought someone decided to "man up" and find out what happens when you delete it. Shame it was simply a hacker though.
 
Wren said:
Whatever the story is I hope he continues to run the item site, that thing saves so much hassle if your idling.

It's also disappointing to read about wrench #27. I honestly thought someone decided to "man up" and find out what happens when you delete it. Shame it was simply a hacker though.
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Saves hassle when idling? What the fell?
 
Twig said:
Apparently Drunken F00l and his two friends got their wrenches revoked.

Proof of DF, at least: http://www.tf2items.com/id/df

...has he always been VAC banned? http://steamcommunity.com/id/df/

His two friends, I think.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/ChrisFPS
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Rukes

CURIOUSER AND CURIOUSER
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m8iskx.gif
 
IRC log snippet from #sourceop:

23:14… @Drunken_F00l: my statement is: :|
23:14… @Drunken_F00l: also I'm not that stressed out about it
23:14… @Drunken_F00l: if Valve wants to be [censored]* yet again
23:14… @Drunken_F00l: then let them
23:14… @Drunken_F00l: whatever.
23:14… Dark-Dragon: Drunken_F00l: tell us, did you do anything wrong? i mean like more than analyzing the drop times?
23:14… @Drunken_F00l: there was a leak
23:14… @Drunken_F00l: the drop times were leaked
23:15… RabidZombie: I guess by a Valve employee
23:15… @Drunken_F00l: yes
23:15… @Drunken_F00l: valve apparently thinks the leak is my problem
23:15… Nwks: wow, so much for "random chance"
23:15… @Drunken_F00l: yes
23:15… @Drunken_F00l: the random chance is all BS
23:15… @Drunken_F00l: the times were predetermined
23:16… jorgenson: hey DF if you had kept the times to yourself... you prob would not be banned
23:16… @Drunken_F00l: jorgenson: I wasn't the source, I had no control over that
23:16… Dragonshadow: Drunken_F00l: so they haven't said anything to you yet?
23:17… @Drunken_F00l: Dragonshadow: I called Robin. We talked about it.
23:18… Cyborgmatt: @Drunken_F00l: Dragonshadow: I called Robin. We talked about it.
23:18… Cyborgmatt: does that mean you agreed to the ban?
23:18… Cyborgmatt: or was it unexpected
23:18… @Drunken_F00l: I called him after I saw the ban
23:18… @Drunken_F00l: he wanted to talk earlier but I said I couldn't because I was busy at work
23:20… SonicXVe: are you involved in the other two people getting banned?
23:20… @Drunken_F00l: SonicXVe: no
23:21… Subaru: Drunken_F00l, did your api key get removed too, or is the website just being slow
23:21… @Drunken_F00l: Subaru: I don't know anything about that. My guess is it's being slow.
23:23… Kigabit: Drunken F00l, I assume they changed all the predetermined times after they found out they were leaked?
23:23… @Drunken_F00l: Kigabit: Yes, absolutely.
23:23… DSpawn: DF, so was it actually true that you got it by chance, or did you know almost for certain you where going to get it
23:23… @Drunken_F00l: DSpawn: I knew for certain when it dropped
23:23… Kigabit: Did you have to craft on the exact second it was supposed to drop?
23:24… @Drunken_F00l: Kigabit: The craft had to reach the crafting server at the exact second. First craft after the time was reached got the wrench.
23:24… ohyes: Did you actually know the exact times, DF?
23:24… @Drunken_F00l: yes
23:25… @Drunken_F00l: all of them
23:25… BatterieS: do you know the next time?
23:25… @Drunken_F00l: the times were changed
23:25… baronbeetle: so the times were down to the second, not minute?
23:25… @Drunken_F00l: baronbeetle: Yes
23:25… cvarley: Drunken_F00l, how many wrenches did you have? Just the one?
23:25… @Drunken_F00l: cvarley: You can only get one.
23:26… ohyes: So, DF, did you tell voidy and thomas?
23:26… @Drunken_F00l: ohyes: I don't know about these people. If they had the times, I don't know how.
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*The forum with the snippet censored that part

[EDIT]This latest snippet explains the ban:

01:34 Drunken_F00l netshroud: The vac ban was because I had a script to craft as fast as possible before they removed the smelt metal blueprint and also because I used leaked times to get a wrench.
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Lazy indeed.

And hugely disappointing, because it means that basically every time I've crafted, I wasn't even close to having a chance at the wrench except around #72, when I crafted 5 minutes too early. |:
 
Won said:
Seriously, fixed times? That's just lazy.
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Lazier than what? Having it randomly drop at a super lower rate? I doubt that would take much more effort, in fact it might take less.
 
One more part since it clarifies how it got leaked:

23:27… DSpawn: are you the only person who knew the times or could someone else have found them, perhaps using the new/old api? or a different method?
23:27… @Drunken_F00l: DSpawn: Others had them.
23:30… unkz: Drunken_F00l: what about tf2items? you shut it down?
23:30… @Drunken_F00l: unkz: no
23:30… EwOkLuVeR69: f00l you should've crafted moer than once around taht time to not make it so obvious
23:31… @Drunken_F00l: EwOkLuVeR69: yes
23:31… Dist: Drunken_F00l if the ban wont be lifted, will you create a new steam account and buy a new copy of tf2?
23:31… @Drunken_F00l: Dist: I already have multiple accounts but I will miss my 6dig
23:31… DSpawn: DF - do you even care you dont have a wrench?
23:31… @Drunken_F00l: DSpawn: no
23:31… FannyPack: here's my question DF and I won't ask another one cause I know you're busy answering other questions. But do you suppose you'd be ousted if the whole forum didn't rage about it?
23:32… @Drunken_F00l: FannyPack: I have no way of knowing. The whole forum raging was inevitable anyways.
23:32… FireSlash: Drunken_F00l, is tf2items down due to load? Or did something happen there too?
23:32… @Drunken_F00l: FireSlash: Heavy load
23:32… Dark-Dragon: Drunken_F00l: you were piling up items for quite some time, did you know about how this event would work earlier?
23:33… @Drunken_F00l: Dark-Dragon: no i was saving metal for new hats
23:33… Totakeke7: Why'd you do it, DF?
23:33… @Drunken_F00l: Totakeke7: I wanted a wrench :3
23:33… netshroud: Drunken_F00l: is the VAC ban related to golden wrench frop, or not?
23:34… @Drunken_F00l: netshroud: The vac ban was because I had a script to craft as fast as possible before they removed the smelt metal blueprint and also because I used leaked times to get a wrench.
23:35… ohyes: lied, obviously.
23:35… @Drunken_F00l: ohyes: Yes, the TF2 team lied to you about how the wrench drop works
23:35… Sturmcock: DF, stop avoiding the question. How were the times leaked?
23:36… @Drunken_F00l: Sturmcock: By a person. Not anything in the binaries
23:36… Silv3r: Did someone from valve contact etc.
23:37… @Drunken_F00l: Silv3r: Robin emailed me and gave him his home phone number wanting to explain what was going to happen before it happened. I was too busy at work to call immediately.
23:37… Cyborgmatt: Drunken_F00l, was the drop time leak done on purpose or accidental?
23:37… @Drunken_F00l: Cyborgmatt: Not accidently
23:38… hobomania: Drunken_F00l, did you enjoy the GW whilst it lasted?
23:38… @Drunken_F00l: hobomania: I didn't even use it
23:40… Silv3r: You said you knew times?
23:40… Silv3r: But yesterday you said it was all random...
23:41… @Drunken_F00l: Silv3r: I was covering my ass. It didn't help.
23:42… RabidZombie: LunarPrince: He didn't use logic. He used insider information then a script.
23:43… @Drunken_F00l: RabidZombie: The script was first actually. It was only for uncrafting/recrafting metal. It's part of the reason for the ban.
23:43… Dark-Dragon: Drunken_F00l: give us robis number, come on you want to do it, dont you? :D
23:43… @Drunken_F00l: Dark-Dragon: That wouldn't be right
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What a clusterfuck.
 
Won said:
Seriously, fixed times? That's just lazy.
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Don't see any other way they could have done it and ensure the dripfeed of information over the days until the update to be honest, as well as timing when the update hits to concide with wrench 100.

Having said that, the whole things bullshit, and I'd have rather they just gave out 5,000 by clicking ona s ecret link on their webpage or whatever.

Or let you get a golden wrench by dominating someone who already has one as a viral style achievement or whatever(which I guess still might be on the cards).
 
Spire said:
Lazier than what? Having it randomly drop at a super lower rate? I doubt that would take much more effort, in fact it might take less.
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Hell, I don't know. The "event" just sucks so far. I don't like the idea that my crafting contributes nothing. It's not fun. :(
 
I'm pretty sure you could call Robin anyway. Look on Valve's site for the number and call. The automated process is obvious. It's all publicly available. It's not his home phone number though, that's very strange to give out to a player.
 
Won said:
Hell, I don't know. The "event" just sucks so far. I don't like the idea that my crafting contributes nothing. It's not fun. :(
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Exactly. It's just awful.

I still hold out hope there's a post-update event, but also hope there isn't because if there is I'll miss it.
 
Twig said:
Exactly. It's just awful.

I still hold out hope there's a post-update event, but also hope there isn't because if there is I'll miss it.
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The event is the people who are left with completely full backpacks win.
Platinum Wrenches!
 
Won said:
Hell, I don't know. The "event" just sucks so far. I don't like the idea that my crafting contributes nothing. It's not fun. :(
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It's not like whenever you craft your materials disappear into the void, you're still constructing shit. I guess if you wanted to feel like you were contributing something they could have set something up similar to the AQ event in WoW, where you could donate your metal or whatever to "the cause" and once they hit a certain mark, they unlocked new stuff. Have all the TF2 players donate metal to "construct" something for the engie update, which all makes sense thematically.
 
Spire said:
It's not like whenever you craft your materials disappear into the void, you're still constructing shit. I guess if you wanted to feel like you were contributing something they could have set something up similar to the AQ event in WoW, where you could donate your metal or whatever to "the cause" and once they hit a certain mark, they unlocked new stuff. Have all the TF2 players donate metal to "construct" something for the engie update, which all makes sense thematically.
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Or maybe each craft every hour puts you in a pool of players for a random draw, might have been much more effort involved for something like that.
 
YYZ said:
I'm pretty sure you could call Robin anyway. Look on Valve's site for the number and call. The automated process is obvious. It's all publicly available. It's not his home phone number though, that's very strange to give out to a player.
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I'm sure the reason for that was to find out who leaked the times. Apparently DF doesn't want to tell valve according to the latest irc logs.
 
To make it fair to everyone and spread out the info they could have done it so every craft you do gets you a 'ticket' in the Golden Wrench lottery. And every hour a wrench is randomly given out. The more tickets you have, the more chance you have of winning. 1 an hour means you have a chance of winning no matter when you can play. They could have it drop into the back pack of the player and then they get it the next time they die or something like normal.
Might not be ideal but it would have been random and fair (obviously not to the people who don't have items to craft though, but then again they'd have a few days to get drops to craft)

EDIT: Didn't see Diablohead's post. Pretty much the same idea really.
 
I'm not sure how I feel about this update. The global unlock announcement is a neat idea but having even more limited items that I'll never have is really a downer. I would have liked to have seen the drop limit removed for the week and for every item crafted (or smelted) to have contributed to some global counter. Then you could have a nifty pop up on screen every time your reach a milestone.

Volcynika said:
Because when you're being lazy as hell, might as well go all out.
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I actually use it to check what drops I have when I'm out of the apartment. I'm told a few updates ago they limited the number of items you can have floating around outside your bag. If you find another one past the limit an item you have found but not claimed gets deleted. I use it to check every hour or so when I'm idling but not near a computer to make sure that if I were to find a random drop hat I could claim it before it gets removed.
 
*cry* no golden wrench for me...but I did get a chocolate bar and a pain train. I suppose that's better than nothing.
 
23:40… Silv3r: You said you knew times?
23:40… Silv3r: But yesterday you said it was all random...
23:41… @Drunken_F00l: Silv3r: I was covering my ass. It didn't help.
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It doesn't help that he says he was lying about at least part of the story. :/

And if he's telling the truth for the rest of it then it's still scary about VAC bans, since was his script a program? Or just a normal script you can do in TF2? Can you GET VAC banned for those? My problem with VAC bans is that they basically only tell you that they're for things that give you an advantage over other people. You can have a couple of cases:

1. People use bugs like shooting through the gate with the ambassador. It doesn't seem to hurt anyone too much, it's funny, admins ban for it if they want to on their server, Valve finally fixes it. No one expects a VAC ban.
2. People (or at least me) use the "setinfo name 'tempname'" command to change their name in TF2 to something silly. For one round, my name can say "Spychex" while I am rage pyro. I assume other people did this, it didn't hurt anyone, my friends list name stays the same so people aren't confused or don't have to search for my avatar in the list, etc. Then, after having this NORMAL COMMAND forever, Valve makes a patch and fixes the "exploit" to change your name. Not a bug, an exploit. But...wouldn't an exploit be the kind of thing they might be expected to VAC ban for?

So I really don't know. A normal keybind, or simple script, presumably wouldn't get you banned? Or would it, if it touches on areas like crafting, for instance? :(
 
Volcynika said:
*facepalm*

Actually Blizzard, just being on the internet will get you banned. Sorry. Better just bail out now.
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I know it's silly, but seriously, what part of what I quoted was not reasonable, given the Valve user agreement, info concerning VAC, and what Drunken Fool was saying? Can you say anything other than "X/Y probably won't get you VAC banned"? Just point out exactly which ones are wrong, using official info from Valve, assuming the Drunken Fool story was accurate in this case.

Confidence Man said:
The event is the people who are left with completely full backpacks win.
Platinum Wrenches!
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Mine isn't full, and I'll probably craft a couple tonight, but here:
hl22010-07-0719-51-58-xacy.jpg

hl22010-07-0719-52-02-dacu.jpg
 
Achievements / random items made me stop playing TF2.

It's dumb. I don't want to grind, idle, or farm.

The drama the items creates is fucking terrible, as evidenced by people in this very thread crying about golden fucking wrenches, how they're obtained, or some guy getting VAC banned by Robin Walker personally.

Fuck.
 
Mudkips said:
It's dumb. I don't want to grind, idle, or farm.
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I've only ever idled for hats, and those are completely useless. I just think they look neat. And now this wrench of course, which is equally useless.

In other words: there's no reason to grind, idle, OR farm, so why would you think you have to?

People like you never cease to amaze. Raging over not wanting to do something you don't have to do is like expressing paranoia over something that will never be a problem.

Side note: I think I've reached the increased drop limit for this week. Haven't gotten a new item for a while now.
 
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