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The '1080p, 60 FPS' Buzz Words.

Conor 419 said:
Two terms which seem to have exploded in the last year or so. Are these features really that important or do you feel they hold more psychological weight than anything else?

Do they matter to you?
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Not at all. And just like this gen was sub-720p and sub-30fps the next one will be the same. Just with prettier graphics.
 
Gemüsepizza;39138554 said:
A PC which can play Unreal-Engine 4 games at 1080p/60fps?
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Yes. Probably not at the highest possible settings (also depends on optimization), but I do have a PC that will be able to run a higher-spec version of an UE4 game, compared to a next-gen console, at 1080p/60.

What are you getting at, here?
 
Gemüsepizza;39138059 said:
Games like Need for Speed: The Run, Forza Horizon, Wipeout 2048 are certainly not that bad, if you look at the speed.
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Not having 60FPS in a racer is a real killer to my control and enjoyment. For other genres it isn't as big a deal, but for racing its 60FPS or I'm just wasting my time.
 
Ryoku said:
Yes. Probably not at the highest possible settings (also depends on optimization), but I do have a PC that will be able to run a higher-spec version of an UE4 game, compared to a next-gen console, at 1080p/60.

What are you getting at, here?
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I said to someone here that he can have 1080p/60fps, but it has a price. Then you replied, that you already have a PC which cost a lot. What are you getting at?
 
mkenyon said:
The fact that you young kids think that 60fps is some sort of new buzzword or standard is ridiculous. 60fps has been the gold standard for as long as I can remember, at least as far back as Quake.
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Yeah, pretty much as far back as I can remember I've upgraded my computer to ideally reach 60 fps or above. It's not a new concept, at all.

1080p is a somewhat more recent. But I feel like now that almost every display is at least 1080p, games should be as well. If the next console generation is not at least able to finally handle 1080p I'll be sticking with my PC for good.
 
Teknopathetic said:
"I am stating that I have seen people who throw these terms around with excitement when before hand they neither knew or cared about what they were and as a result are putting more weight into them then they are actually worth."


I'm curious how you're so certain these "people" neither knew or card about them.
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Sorry I have to agree with guy you quoted, I never heard people talking about frames per second who played only consoles, maybe resolution quality to some extent, but never frames per second. The entire 60fps thing is what I would classify as a buzz word, when talking about consoles. Now that people know what to look for FPS wise, it will become more then a "buzz word". But I've definitely noticed a radical increase in the number of people using 30fps/60fps when speaking about consoles and next gen consoles.

Personally I've been invested in performance for a long time as I mainly play PC games (*Sips Latte, adjusts over sized glass's, and pet's his $8,000 dollar cat*). So this is not new for me.


Btw do you have an $8,000 dollar cat console people? Would like to know.
 
Gemüsepizza;39138719 said:
I said that to someone here that he can have 1080p/60fps, but it has a price. Then you replied, that you already have a PC which cost a lot. What are you getting at?
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We are certainly off-topic, but I'm going to point out your flawed argument, regardless.

I said, "Why can't we have both?", to which you replied, "You can have both. For the price of $999 when the next generation of consoles arrive." I then replied in response to that, "Lol. I have a PC for that."

That should have been it. But instead, you brought up "A PC which can play Unreal-Engine 4 games at 1080p/60fps?", implying that only next-gen consoles priced $999 can achieve such a feat. Going back, again: I have a PC that can do that. The argument was never, and should have never been, about price. It was strictly about resolution and frame-rate. Of course my PC cost more than a thousand bucks... That was never the argument.

I'm done with this off-topic argument.

Back on-topic, I understand that a console won't reach the holy grail of native 1080p/60fps for next-gen. However, these aren't buzzwords. Only way 1080p can be considered a buzzword is if the person fails to point out a less-than-1080p native resolution, which has certainly happened with PR about Xbox360, PS3, and will definitely continue with next-gen, like Wii U has already demonstrated.
 
Riggs said:
Sorry I have to agree with guy you quoted, I never heard people talking about frames per second who played only consoles, maybe resolution quality to some extent, but never frames per second. The entire 60fps thing is what I would classify as a buzz word, when talking about consoles. Now that people know what to look for FPS wise, it will become more then a "buzz word". But I've definitely noticed a radical increase in the number of people using 30fps/60fps when speaking about consoles and next gen consoles.
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But because a specific fanbase is oblivious to a gold standard, doesn't make it a buzzword.
 
Sethos said:
But because a specific fanbase is oblivious to a gold standard, doesn't make it a buzzword.
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Fair enough, but the term being thrown around so commonly compared to never ever being used just a few years ago, makes it something.

What does it make it if not a buzz word? Perhaps a more commonly referred to term? I do not know.

My cat needs to be taken out, be right back.
 
Aaron said:
Not having 60FPS in a racer is a real killer to my control and enjoyment. For other genres it isn't as big a deal, but for racing its 60FPS or I'm just wasting my time.
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The others need it just as much for smooth animations. Uncharted and Killzone would look so much better with 60!
 
dr3upmushroom said:
Where else are you hearing people talking about 1080p and 60fps video games?
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I will give a little retrospec of my personal observations. I use the term 1080P as many do. But for the longest time I would name resolutions by numbers.

I started working for Comcast back in 2006 (not anymore do not judge me please). The "instructor" training us, was using the terms 1080P so much I just stopped listening to her because it was becoming annoying. I was used to saying 1920X1080, or 640X480, etc.

Back then the terms 480I/480P/720P/1080I/1080P were starting to be used commonly. I considered them buzz words at first. Now they are just as important as anything. And everyone knows about them it seems. A friend of mine a year ago was playing his 360 on a 50" 1080P TV with RGB cables. He thought because he had an HDTV, that the resolution was automatically high def. He did not realize he needed to change the settings to 1080P in the 360's display settings. Or use component/HDMI cables for that matter.

But he did know about 1080P and Hi Def, because of the terms being used so commonly. What once, to me at least, started off as a buzzword had become common knowledge. Even if he didn't know much about it.

Very soon everyone will know about 30fps/60fps just like he knew about 1080P. So it starts off as a "buzzword" or whatever you want to call it. Then it becomes common knowledge. If that makes any sense.

Here is a picture of my cat.

customcatidtags.jpg
 
Ryoku said:
We are certainly off-topic, but I'm going to point out your flawed argument, regardless.

I said, "Why can't we have both?", to which you replied, "You can have both. For the price of $999 when the next generation of consoles arrive." I then replied in response to that, "Lol. I have a PC for that."

That should have been it. But instead, you brought up "A PC which can play Unreal-Engine 4 games at 1080p/60fps?", implying that only next-gen consoles priced $999 can achieve such a feat. Going back, again: I have a PC that can do that.
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What are you talking about? I meant that only PCs priced $999 can achieve 1080p/60fps with a next gen game, I thought this was clear from what I have written. Consoles will of course, not cost $999, and they will be able to display these games in 720p/30fps, but you won't be able to buy a PC for $500 on the release day of a next gen console that can play these games at 1080p/60fps. And it does not matter if you already spent this money on a PC, or if you will.

The argument was never, and should have never been, about price. It was strictly about resolution and frame-rate. No shit my PC cost more than a thousand bucks... That was never the argument.[...]
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You asked why you can't have both. I said you can have both, if you are willing to buy the appropiate hardware. I don't understand what your problem is?

Norml said:
The others need it just as much for smooth animations. Uncharted and Killzone would look so much better with 60!
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They would not look better on PS3. They would look better with 60fps on hardware which has double the power of the PS3.
 
For the frame rate, the higher the better I suppose, but stability is more important. Most of the time I can't tell if a game is 30fps or 60fps as long as it doesn't stutter every time something explodes on screen.

After enjoying Shadow of the colossus and Dark Souls despite their deeply flawed framerate, I feel this is not an issue for me when the game is great otherwise.

Also I play and enjoy a lot of games that aren't in 1080p, but what I don't like is jagged edges, so anti-aliasing would be my wish for the "next-gen" graphics.
 
Not really bothered about if games are 60fps or 1080p, as long as they are playable.

Gamers that judge games based if they are 1080p and/or 60fps however, bug me.
 
I don't know if they fit with the term "buzzwords", but there has been a definite rise in this generation of amateur pixel counting and frame-rate counting. This is directly attributed to Digital Foundry, I think.

I understand that many on a forum like this would see 1080/60 as important but I don't see developers working to that standard next gen, in much the same way this gen has been variable in frame-rate and resolution, I see something similar for the next gen too (outside of arcade racers and one on one fighters). To look at sales it seems the public don't care too much either.

In truth it doesn't bother me that much either, I've enjoyed this gen thoroughly.
 
On consoles I'm not bothered by 720p vs 1080p. 60fps is nice but smooth framerate is far more important to me. I'd rather smooth 30fps than a janky 60.
 
prowler_ said:
Not really bothered about if games are 60fps or 1080p, as long as they are playable.

Gamers that judge games based if they are 1080p and/or 60fps however, bug me.
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The closest I get is if the game was intended to be 60 FPS and got a port that was 30 FPS or less, in which case I'd usually prefer to play that 60 FPS version. There's exceptions though, namely Metal Gear Solid HD on Vita: gameplay doesn't really need 60 FPS in MGS2, and while a cruel cocktease it CAN run at 60 FPS at times. And MGS3, well, it may be 60 FPS in the console HD Collection but it wasn't originally at that anyway.

It's why I'd rather play Ninja Gaiden on Xbox or PS3 though, not to mention they apparently neutered the difficulty further and judging by the rental it looks kind of washed out anyway.
 
FYI 1080p and 60fps aren't buzz words.

Now "generation" being spun as something outside as a qualifier of time, now that is a sensationalistic buzzword.

With that said, fanboys have a tendency to be bipolar regarding fps and resolution, as they're willing to overlook them when their product doesn't meet those but at the same time thrash others.
 
Fuck 1080p and fuck 60fps.

1200p on each of my 24s and minimum 100 fps on all games. My PS3 feels ridiculously dated playing games on my 46" when they aren't 1080p, especially when they're some shit 720p or sub game.
 
Gemüsepizza;39139050 said:
What are you talking about? I meant that only PCs priced $999 can achieve 1080p/60fps with a next gen game, I thought this was clear from what I have written. Consoles will of course, not cost $999, and they will be able to display these games in 720p/30fps, but you won't be able to buy a PC for $500 on the release day of a next gen console that can play these games at 1080p/60fps. And it does not matter if you already spent this money on a PC, or if you will.
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Why did you bring up the question if I already said that I had a capable PC? I already knew that a thousand-dollar PC will bring out the best visuals, but I guess it's my fault for assuming that you knew that. That should have been the end. I didn't realize that we were getting into the argument of console price vs PC price.

Anyways, regarding the cost: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-pc-do-it-yourself-geforce-gtx-560,3216.html

Add 20 bucks and you'll have 8GB DDR3.

Aside from resolution and framerate, there are other things that are simply not possible on a console, and won't be--even with next-gen. You'll see what a console is able to do, and a PC will do it much better--not only framerate and resolution. I'm not hating on consoles, though. I know they offer games and experiences not possible on PC. This is why I opt the Nintendo/PC route. All the games I care enough about.

Gemüsepizza;39139050 said:
You asked why you can't have both. I said you can have both, if you are willing to buy the appropiate hardware. I don't understand what your problem is?
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Again, I then mentioned that I already bought the appropriate hardware by saying I have a [capable] PC. Then you went further.
 
Riggs said:
Sorry I have to agree with guy you quoted, I never heard people talking about frames per second who played only consoles, maybe resolution quality to some extent, but never frames per second. The entire 60fps thing is what I would classify as a buzz word, when talking about consoles.
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Guess you've never talked to a DMC or NG fan...
 
With how meager the next-gen console specs are rumored to be, I think they should rather focus on 720p with decent anti-aliasing than 1080p. Will probably be a better IQ tradeoff.

I'll just play the PC ports.
 
Fredescu said:
Do resolution and framerate matter? Of course they do. Are there good games with poor resolution and framerate? Of course there are.
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This. And all games play better with higher resolution and framerate.

1080p is important on pc because I have a 1080p monitor and anything below native rez looks like shit. PS3 is now on a 720p plasma so 720p is fine there. Under 720p is still fucking shit though.

Now framerate is important! Fighting games need 60fps to be competitive, but dosent need to be good. 30fps is fine for Uncharted like games, and fps games somewhat. BUT Uncharted/Killzone/Bioshock would look way better with 60 fps dont fucking deny it. Unstable framerate is the worst on consoles, see Enslaved.


Some people here need to check Digital Foundry more often.

My 500 PC playes games at 1080p but only 30fps. Because of the monitor being so close I have to give up framerate :(
 
5 days ago i bought my first computer capable of 1080p/60fps
in those 5 days ive decided yes it is very important.
 
Honestly, a lot of times people around me have a very, very hard time noticing the difference between watching a film in 720p and watching that same film in 1080p. Yet, rendering 1080p takes so much more processing power that it just won't happen. None of the big AAA titles will render at 1080p@60fps. Most of the real stunners will work at 720p@30fps, just like they do in this generation, since this is the cost they bought their looks with.

We have this exact same discussion with every hardware generation and it never holds water.
 
Razor 81 said:
Right, I forget about rage . Just like everyone else. But yeah it played so much better then other 3o fps shooters imo
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Most of those console shooters also have PC ports that let you play them in the best possible way. After Bulletstorm at 60FPS, the console version seems like total garbage. I can't play the Gears series because of how chuggy the framerate is. It's distracting.
 
They both matter. Framerate matters much more though. A clean image quality is always nice, and 60fps makes a game look and feel more smooth.
 
Aaron said:
Most of those console shooters also have PC ports that let you play them in the best possible way. After Bulletstorm at 60FPS, the console version seems like total garbage. I can't play the Gears series because of how chuggy the framerate is. It's distracting.
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I agree, cod basically ruined every other fps on console for me. It all comes down to responsiveness for me. I already made up my mind if next Gen doesn't give me more 60fps I'm investing in a pc.
 
snoopen said:
Fuck 1080p and fuck 60fps.

1200p on each of my 24s and minimum 100 fps on all games. My PS3 feels ridiculously dated playing games on my 46" when they aren't 1080p, especially when they're some shit 720p or sub game.
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Whats 1200p....ive never heard of this standard before.
What channel broadcasts at 1200p.

60fps is needed for most racing games....if the engine doesnt render at 60fps then atleast the underlying code should refresh at 60 so the controls feel tight.
Need For Speed: hot Pursuit renders at 30fps but the underlying code refreshes at 60 so it feels amazing.

I have both the X360 and PC version and i can confirm that they feel almost exactly the same....the vanilla PC version doesnt even come with AA so it doesnt look much better(until you open Nvidia inspector)


P.S 2560 x 1600 is the only only resolution worth being called a buzz word.
1080p is just what we should all expect now

P.P.S I will accept 2560 x 1440 as being a buzzword as well, as im pretty sure 16:9 is still going to be popular in the coming years.

Loofy said:
Well the framerate argument has been going on since at least Quake. More recently Im sure you'll remember the heated arguments between Forza(30fps) fans saying its useless, and Gran Turismo(60fps) saying Forza sucks.
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I dont remember any heated arguments when Forza Motorsport dropped.
I remember a couple fanboys jumping at GT4 being 60fps and Forza being 30, but most of that died quite quickly.
The GT4 vs Forza battle was probably one of the more civilized fanboy wars just cuz it fizzed out so quickly.
 
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