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[peakish]

If you exclude the lower part (less than 15% Know by) part of the chart, where you can't read anything.

There should have been two separate charts. Not only for visualization purpose, but also because the "less than 15% Know by" section has a very high variability. The two highest rated games (Rance VI and Megadimension) are actually in that section. Not sure this would stand if more people played them.

The point of the bottom field is that the sample is too small to say anything about it. That's why it's cheekily labeled "Who?" instead of "Your next favorite game" which (on the right side) delimits (or at least suggests) when the sample size starts being big enough for the measure to be meaningful.

The messiness is true but it's mostly a problem in that field, which isn't super important.

It's also among the lowest "known" games. Probably had a small handful of people who played and liked it.

(Sengoku) Rance was a meme game for a while on there back before I left the site. Wouldn't be surprised if that has a role in it, too.

 

[Kifimbo]

The point of the bottom field is that the sample is too small to say anything about it. That's why it's cheekily labeled "Who?" instead of "Your next favorite game" which (on the right side) delimits (or at least suggests) when the sample size starts being big enough for the measure to be meaningful.

I agree. Still, I wanted to see the games there, so here's a zoom on that bottom section. The lower left corner is still messy.

Some decent games were barely played by their members and have very low ratings, including three Final Fantasy games, Evoland II, Sanctuary RPG, Costume Quest 2, Victor Vran, Chroma Squad, Disgaea, and both Agarest games.

 

[thecrpgbook]

(Sengoku) Rance was a meme game for a while on there back before I left the site. Wouldn't be surprised if that has a role in it, too.

It was never a "meme game". Gameplay-wise Sengoku Rance is one of the best RPG/Strategy games ever made.

The problem is that it also features a lot of rape, so most people won't even get near it.

 

[peakish]

It was never a "meme game". Gameplay-wise Sengoku Rance is one of the best RPG/Strategy games ever made.

The problem is that it also features a lot of rape, so most people won't even get near it.

A meme in the sense that it had a let's play which people laughed a lot with, then it got avatars and people were having a good time. I trust that it's good but it's presence on the Codex always came off as an in joke to me.

 

[Charamiwa]

(Sengoku) Rance was a meme game for a while on there back before I left the site. Wouldn't be surprised if that has a role in it, too.

Also the release of Rance VI was hyped for years, with a fan translation nearly over before Mangagamer announced their partnership with Alicesoft. After that Rance VI (and Rance Quest) became the number one requested game in every poll.

The great reputation the game had + the fact that it was teased for years definitely made it one of the most hyped eroge release ever. At least for something this niche.

 

[bati]

Some decent games were barely played by their members and have very low ratings, including three Final Fantasy games, Evoland II, Sanctuary RPG, Costume Quest 2, Victor Vran, Chroma Squad, Disgaea, and both Agarest games.

That's because Codex heavily skews towards PC wrpgs. If you compare their general rpg and jrpg forum activity it's like 120:1.

 

[Toxi]

One of their biggest problems with the game is Sawyer's focus on game balance, which permeates on all aspects of the game. They prefer having builds that are vastly different in power growths (good ol quadratic wizards), viability (they are fine with handicapping themselves with a poorly stats'd character) and having OP multiclasses choices (kensai in BG IIRC). In their opinion Sawyer's approach muddles everything into one bland gray soup. I personally prefer PoE's approach and have difficulty managed by, you know, the difficulty slider instead of my choice of builds but I can kind of understand their opinion.

I will never understand the love people have for quadratic wizards, at least in pen and paper RPGs. Campaigns become a serious pain in the ass at later levels because you've got some players who can literally do anything and others that can swing a sword. At some point it becomes a fucking joke trying to provide challenges, because half the time the solution is in the wizard's spell book. Role playing becomes "which spell can I use to solve this situation". And you have to come up with half-assed restrictions in every scenario.

So you basically never play high level games, which defeats the entire point of quadratic wizards.

And before someone says it: No, this is not a defense of 4th Edition. More just me bitching about 3.5.

 

[Kifimbo]

That's because Codex heavily skews towards PC wrpgs. If you compare their general rpg and jrpg forum activity it's like 120:1.

Looking at both charts, you are right. The Dark Souls games being the exception.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

3/5 of the "Worst" Games are laughable (Fallout 4, DA:I, Diablo 3). They aren't the best entries in their series', but saying they are objectively bad games is a joke.

Eh pre RoS Diablo 3 during its auction house, and anemic useable item drop % is pretty bad.

Post RoS was a fun game that still had issues but had RoS been launch Diablo 3, it would be looked back on much better.

And Fallout 4 was a bad RPG. As a poor mans borderlands/minecraft/mass effect mash up eh.... it was just ok. Nothing there worth returning to for me, not like New Vegas (and even 3 with FWE) were.

Didn't know about Fallout 1.5 I'll have to check it out, and I really should play Witcher 3 if the codex liked it too.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

3/5 of the "Worst" Games are laughable (Fallout 4, DA:I, Diablo 3). They aren't the best entries in their series', but saying they are objectively bad games is a joke.

I have limited knowledge of FA4 and DA:I, but Diablo 3 at launch and through its first couple years was the biggest disappointment I've ever experienced in a game.

For the first full day and part of the second, I couldn't play (even singleplayer!) because the servers were down (Error 37). Then you had the RMAH. Upgrades were nigh impossible to find without buying. And if you wanted a real upgrade, you had to use real money. The gameplay loop was less satisfying than its predecessor, and it didn't even have PVP implemented. I have to emphasize this: Diablo... had no pvp.

Then the story... Maghda pretty much sums up the amount of tact the writers had for the storyline. Stilted and predictable was an understatement. Leah was ok. But Deckard..

Spoiler

taken out by an F-tier underling like Maghda???

.

And then Reaper of Souls came and fixed everything and everyone lived happily ever after. But before then, Diablo III was trash.

 

[Burt]

I agree. Still, I wanted to see the games there, so here's a zoom on that bottom section. The lower left corner is still messy.

Some decent games were barely played by their members and have very low ratings, including three Final Fantasy games, Evoland II, Sanctuary RPG, Costume Quest 2, Victor Vran, Chroma Squad, Disgaea, and both Agarest games.

Thanks for blowing this up

I see in the left half

Grandia 2
Penny Arcade Episode 3 +4
Disgaea PC
YS VI and Xanadu Next
Halfway
Celestian Tales

Heresy, says I!

 

[Lynx_7]

To no one's surprise, some games suffered heavily from down-votes. If we remove the 1/5 & 2/5 votes from all games, then Pillars of Eternity goes from #23 to #13, Dark Souls goes from 5th to 2nd and Undertale goes from #130 to #18. Wow. Oddly, Wasteland 2 goes DOWN from #23 to #29 if you remove the negative votes, as several games surpass it.

I figured Undertale would be the game most likely to get hate-voted by their community but lol at that discrepancy.

Anyway, I bought Divinity OS on the christmas sale so I'm excited to see just how good it is.

 

[michaelius]

I'd thought they would have done the same to Witcher 3 if the goal was to be contrarian / "I hate popular games" kind of stance, which happens with Bethesda titles. I think they just genuinely think F4 is a very poor role-playing experience all said and done. I personally am of that opinion, with terrible samey dialogue choices, very poor reactivity / consequences and the overall narrative.

That's completely not what happens there.

The one thing RPGcodex hates the most is streamlined mainstream oriented rpgs with bonus hate points if they are part of series that used to be hardcore rpg.

So when you combine typical modern Bethesda "rpg" experience of single player mmo combined with walking simulator to memories of games like Morrowing which they used to make and legendary rpg status of Fallout I/II you have sure hit on rpgcodex hate list

Same applies to Bioware.

IIRC at some point of time Mass Effect 2 was moved to not rpg sub forum since they classified it as shooter.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Despite that their content and knowledge on RPG's is surpassed by none. Their Witcher 3 review is certainly worth a read.

Maybe then we could get more useful contributions to this discussion to explain why Witcher 3 won instead of 'racist, all white'.

It's not that it's all white it's that it was 'targeted by SJWs' and they feel that by praising it they're fighting the culture war.

Same reason they started hating BioWare and Bethesda when they did.

 

[Durante]

Same reason they started hating BioWare and Bethesda when they did.

Oh come on. People who actually like CRPGs have plenty of legitimate reason to dislike Bioware's and Bethesda's recent output.

 

[Lanrutcon]

I figured Undertale would be the game most likely to get hate-voted by their community but lol at that discrepancy.

Anyway, I bought Divinity OS on the christmas sale so I'm excited to see just how good it is.

It is worth noting that the site's review of Undertale is very accurate, and very positive.

The threads for the game (OT and review discussion) sport very conflicting opinions, ranging from the stupidity you'd expect to some very thoughtful comparisons to other games.

(D:OS is brilliant, btw)

 

[Toxi]

Oh come on. People who actually like CRPGs have plenty of legitimate reason to dislike Bioware's and Bethesda's recent output.

Yeah. Most of the people posting on the Codex forums are bigoted pieces of shit, but the place was already turning on Bioware back when Mass Effect came out.

 

[obeast]

Yeah. Most of the people posting on the Codex forums are bigoted pieces of shit, but the place was already turning on Bioware back when Mass Effect came out.

As best I can tell from skimming their forums, many are both bigoted pieces of shit and smug, self-satisfied snobs who consider people with different preferences in RPGs to be intellectually and aesthetically deficient. I suspect both contribute to anti-Bioware sentiment.

I did bump into a few intelligent, knowledgeable posts, though.

 

[Eila]

Thanks for blowing this up

I see in the left half

Grandia 2
Penny Arcade Episode 3 +4
Disgaea PC
YS VI and Xanadu Next
Halfway
Celestian Tales

Heresy, says I!

Bastards.
Clearly they're not too into JRPG. Seems like they have a separate forum for that.

 

[michaelius]

Bastards.
Clearly they're not too into JRPG. Seems like they have a separate forum for that.

JRPGs are usually pretty bad when it comes to choices&consequences which rpgcodex see as fundamental part of rpg experience

 

[Quonny]

Dust: An Elysian Tale - Don't Even Bother

Shit consensus.

 

[Toxi]

JRPGs are usually pretty bad when it comes to choices&consequences which rpgcodex see as fundamental part of rpg experience

It's weird how so many people there like Dark Souls.

And I can't believe that's an actual thing I just typed.

 

[bati]

It's weird how so many people there like Dark Souls.

Why is it weird? It's a game that's relatively hard for new players, offers decent challenge throughout the entire run, doesn't jerk the player around by taking control away from them, lets you go at your own pace and above all, doesn't hold your hand. Now admittedly I don't spend all that much time on codex but from what I've seen these are some the qualities they look for in their favorite games.

 

[Dick Justice]

lmao at Fallout 4 as the worst RPG in 4 years. I'm not much of a fan of Bethesda's RPGs, but give me a fucking break.

Fallout 4 was godawful when judged as an RPG. And even when not, it's a mediocre FPS with the usual Bethesda jank and terrible writing.

 

[Arulan]

Instead of assuming ulterior motives for why they have a negative opinion of a game and dismissing them outright, how about learning why that is and challenging their arguments with your own. Take their Fallout 4 review for instance:

13 Shocking Facts about Fallout 4 That Will Forever Change the Way You Think about RPGs

Same reason they started hating BioWare and Bethesda when they did.

Like there aren't enough reasons already to hate BioWare and Bethesda's recent releases.

 

[Toxi]

Why is it weird? It's a game that's relatively hard for new players, offers decent challenge throughout the entire run, doesn't jerk the player around by taking control away from them, lets you go at your own pace and above all, doesn't hold your hand. Now admittedly I don't spend all that much time on codex but from what I've seen these are some the qualities they look for in their favorite games.

It's a Japanese action RPG originally developed for consoles with an initially bad PC port (Thanks Durante). The combat system is more based on twitch reaction and knowing how to approach specific foes than stats and most builds play similarly. The magic system is boring and easily the least interesting way to play the game. There is barely any non-combat interaction. The game doesn't wrest control from you, but it also gives you little ability to influence the world outside its framework.

Back when Prepare To Die was relatively new, the main sentiment on the Codex forums about the game was either "This game is awesome" or "Why the fuck are you playing this?"

 

[Stevey]

Can't argue with the Codex

 

[nailbombxx]

It's weird how so many people there like Dark Souls.

And I can't believe that's an actual thing I just typed.

Because Dark Souls has very very little to do with JRPGs as a traditional genre. They are action RPGs made in Japan, yeah, but they have more in common with dungeon crawlers and character action games than your typical story-driven anime JRPG. I don't know exactly why they are so cynical about JRPGs but its clear to me that the Souls games are from a completely different school of game design so I wouldn't really find it that weird.

 

[Doukou]

Idk I really love Dragon Age: Inquisition. It's no Witcher 3 but maybe I'm just a pleb.

I feel like Dragon Age: Inquistion has a weird reception. It feels like it went from overrated to underrated.

 

[Soph]

Great list, reminds me I should start posting more often on the Codex again. Didn't even get to vote.

 

[Arulan]

I feel like Dragon Age: Inquistion has a weird reception. It feels like it went from overrated to underrated.

That's what happens when time passes and you get added perspective. The honeymoon phase is very real, especially in communities where hype becomes a norm of the culture.

 

[Toxi]

Instead of assuming ulterior motives for why they have a negative opinion of a game and dismissing them outright, how about learning why that is and challenging their arguments with your own. Take their Fallout 4 review for instance:

13 Shocking Facts about Fallout 4 That Will Forever Change the Way You Think about RPGs

At this point the contrast in quality between the articles and the community discussion is almost comical.

Because goddamn is that a good read.

 

[His Majesty]

At this point the contrast in quality between the articles and the community discussion is almost comical.

Because goddamn is that a good read.

There are a lot of worthwhile posts to be found in the community discussion, you simply get everything unfiltered.

It's not a coincidence that e.g. Larian and Iron Tower Studios are active on the Codex.

Only devs who wore the hazmat suit and spent ages tormenting themselves by reading what the RPGCodex forums had to say about their game will understand how proud we are of winning both the Reader's Choice & Editor's Choice awards on the RPGCodex! Quite possibly the award that means the most to us.

this quote seems like a good summary of the Codex

 

[TakeItSlowDude]

Like there aren't enough reasons already to hate BioWare and Bethesda's recent releases.

and yet Skyrim is the most played game by codexers when you look through Steam profiles...

 

[Shake Appeal]

It's not that it's all white it's that it was 'targeted by SJWs' and they feel that by praising it they're fighting the culture war.

Same reason they started hating BioWare and Bethesda when they did.

How dare you. I'm as SJW as they come and I think Bioware and Bethesda's output in the last decade is bleh at best.

 

[Purkake4]

Holy shit yes. I declared UnderRail to be in my top 5 games of all time as soon as I finished it (easily one of the best turn based RPG combat systems ever made) and I've been recently binging on AoD and it's just such a fantastic experience that I'll probably have to find another open spot in my top 5.

If I had to point to two of the best RPGs made in the last 5-10 years these two games would be it.

Underrail is excellent and getting a side-expansion in the near future as well.

Fallout 4 being "the worst" is misunderstanding the context, I can totally agree that it's one of the most disappointing RPGs in recent memory.

 

[Lucumo]

It was never a "meme game". Gameplay-wise Sengoku Rance is one of the best RPG/Strategy games ever made.

And it's really fun as well. Played through it like seven times right after another back in the day.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Crypt of the Necrodancer is rated too low. Fie!

Because Dark Souls has very very little to do with JRPGs as a traditional genre. They are action RPGs made in Japan, yeah, but they have more in common with dungeon crawlers and character action games than your typical story-driven anime JRPG. I don't know exactly why they are so cynical about JRPGs but its clear to me that the Souls games are from a completely different school of game design so I wouldn't really find it that weird.

JFC this shit again.

*blows brains out*

 

[whalleywhat]

I can see it. Think of your ship as an RPG character. Your crew are your skills which improve through use, you find and buy equipment to upgrade yourself, you explore, you do quests, you make decisions with consequences.

It's not that big of a stretch.

FTL is a roguelike.

If you wanna do that, go for it. I'm not gonna stop you

Cool, thanks.

 

[Arulan]

JFC this shit again.

*blows brains out*

Heh.

In all seriousness, it's a lot more relevant and interesting to look at the origins and inspirations of Dark Souls's game design than geographic classification. This would naturally lead to King's Field, and then ultimately to Ultima Underworld. And by the same extension, Anachronox and Undertale have origins in JRPG design.

I think some people get too worked up over WRPG vs JRPG wars, of which naturally a very good game like Dark Souls becomes a pawn in their bickering.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Their forums are often a cesspool but they have good taste. They have their own bias like GAF have their own too though. Really good to see Divinity Original Sin and the Shadowrun games on there.I really need to play Age of Decadence it's been on my Steam wishlist for a while now.

Read the whole Pillars thread there after I beat the game and agreed with lot of the complains on there. I enjoyed it for what it is but I found Tyranny much better overall (even if it's worse mechanic wise). Which is why I'm not kickstarting part 2 this time.

That infographic is really cool.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Heh.

In all seriousness, it's a lot more relevant and interesting to look at the origins and inspirations of Dark Souls's game design than geographic classification. This would naturally lead to King's Field, and then ultimately to Ultima Underworld. And by the same extension, Anachronox and Undertale have origins in JRPG design.

I think some people get too worked up over WRPG vs JRPG wars, of which naturally a very good game like Dark Souls becomes a pawn in their bickering.

I know all of that, I'm just sick of that oft-rebuttaled circular argument dragging every discussion in sight of it down the drain. Then there's the reductive air it gives both of those geographic classifications that drowns out these science droppings. And its' been going on since the PS360 launch.

 

[nailbombxx]

I know all of that, I'm just sick of that oft-rebuttaled circular argument dragging every discussion in sight of it down the drain. Then there's the reductive air it gives both of those geographic classifications that drowns out these science droppings. And its' been going on since the PS360 launch.

Why are you mad

 

[ArjanN]

FTL is a roguelike.

Roguelikes are just an RPG subgenre.

JFC this shit again.

*blows brains out*

? What he said is hardly controversial and explains why the Codex would like that game just fine.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I know all of that, I'm just sick of that oft-rebuttaled circular argument dragging every discussion in sight of it down the drain. Then there's the reductive air it gives both of those geographic classifications that drowns out these science droppings. And its' been going on since the PS360 launch.

Meh, seems true enough to me. I'll buy pretty much anything my brain identified as JRPG style but Demon Souls didn't light up those boxes in my brain despite being published by Atlus.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

This thread reminds me of how much I hate it when people use the acronym PoE in general RPG discussion since there are two popular & successful modern PC RPGs that they could be talking about (Path of Exile or Pillars of Eternity).

 

[Nikodemos]

Looking at that zoomed bottom 10th percentile I feel a faint sense of self-righteousness at having at least attempted to promote Conquest of Elysium 4 here on GAF, despite nobody giving a fuck about it (or its predecessor, whom I also made a thread about).

 

[chrominance]

I mean, I get why Fallout 4 and Inquisition are where they are--I loved both those games, but I also understand why others hate them--but Diablo III? What? I mean, is that all because of the real money auction house, or some arcane meta change I'm not aware of, or...? I mean, sure, I know some people think it's shit compared to Diablo II, but one of the worst RPGs of the last four years?

EDIT: Oh, I see we discussed this a page ago. Never mind. Sorry for not reading the whole thread in detail!

 

[Drillary Clinton]

I feel like Dragon Age: Inquistion has a weird reception. It feels like it went from overrated to underrated.

I think pound for pound it's the best Dragon Age

 

[Sinatar]

FTL is a roguelike.

Which is a subgenre of RPG's, which happens to be named after an RPG, Rogue.