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The case for renting games

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
I finally signed up for an online rental service today, after having a bit of an epiphany regarding my game collection. It goes like this:

I bought a 360 recently, and bought Oblivion with it. Like many others, the game sucked me in hard, and fast. It TOOK OVER my life for a full two weeks, and dominated it significantly for another two. XBL tells me I got my first achievement August 2nd. From that day until the beginning of September, one month, I played the game 58 hours, completing most main & guild quests.

The epiphany is that Oblivion is a huge game that I played and enjoyed intensely, moreso than any game in years, and it still held my constant attention for only about one month. I intend on getting the game's last few achievements soon, but essentially I was through with the game after 30 days almost exactly.

And Oblivion is the exception, not the rule, when it comes to most games. I also own and genuinely enjoy Saints Row. It's great. But after about 5 days of ownership my "intense" gametime period is already over. I'm at 51% completion right now. In another 7 days or so my gametime won't end completely, but it'll drop to "occasional," at best.

The point of all this is that Gameznflix is $15.99/mo to have two games out. GameFly is $22. If I would have signed up for Gameznflix on August 2nd instead of buying Oblivion and Saint's Row, I would gotten the same gametime out of both, but would have spent $16 instead of $120. Once I'm through with these games, I'm through. They get shelved.

Why collect single player games, regardless of how great they are? Sure I might get an urge to start a thief of archer in Oblivion in December, but then I can just use one of my slots to rent it.

My gaming purchases are no longer tied to how good a game is, or how many hours of enjoyment I'll put into it. My purchases or now dictated by the length of time a game can keep my attention. If it's "only" 30 days like Oblivion, why pay $60 instead of $16? The games that should have a permanent home in a library or those that will be revisited, be it for multiplayer, "quick bursts," or whatever else.

I have a hunch that I'm not the only gamer that's this way. How many GAFFERS own and love DQVIII, or Tomb Raider: Legend, or Resident Evil 4, but only played the game intensely for a month or less? Wouldn't it be better to RENT those games from a service, and then BUY the games like Guitar Hero, Burnout 4, Gradius V, and others that are more replayable?

Down with buying great games that won't be played when beaten! It makes no sense!

FFXII? Rent, so Guitar Hero II can be a buy without breaking the bank. Both games will get the same amount of enjoyment from me even though I spent barely over half the money.
 

mosaic

go eat paint
Damn you, you've discovered my secret to playing a lot of games while still maintaining a decent library of keepers. Now everyone will do it!
 

Tarazet

Member
I can just as easily "rent" games by buying them cheap, getting my fill, and selling them off for close to what I paid for it. The downside to it is that you tend to become less passionate about gaming, because the experience of plunking down full price for a great game on day one is always an exciting one and you miss out on that excitement.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
mosaic said:
Damn you, you've discovered my secret to playing a lot of games while still maintaining a decent library of keepers. Now everyone will do it!

The big shift in thinking, and basically a really easy way to sum up my wall of text, is that the quality of a game doesn't determine whether it's a "buy" or a "rent." Basically, it's whether I'll have any desire to play it 60 days after I buy it. Most games, even great ones, don't live up to that criteria.

I feel so good about it!

Okami? Rent!
Yakuza? Rent!
Enchanted Arms? Rent!
Bully? Rent!

Gears of War? Buy! (multiplayer)
Mario Basketball 3on3? Buy!

It's all so clear to me now.
 
I use my rents to avoid the impulse buys, and I buy the rental if I really like it from GameFly. However I've decided to limit myself to a new game every 1 to 2 months. So far this year I've only bought the following: Saints Row, Madden NFL 2006, NCAA Football 2006, Oblivion, and $50 worth of Xbox Live arcade titles. I got Saints Row for $10 with the EB trade in deal. I'm probably going to buy Dead Rising from Gamefly, and use $15 worth of coupons I have stacked up. So I'll get the game for $25 and it's new since I was the first rental on the disc. The only other games I plan to purchase the rest of the year are Gears of War and The Warcraft Expansion pack. Everything else is being rented :).
 

demi

Member
Welcome to the club. Been playing my rented Enchanted Arms all day -- waiting for GRAW to come in.

The point of all this is that Gameznflix is $15.99/mo to have two games out.

$13/mo for 2


I still plan on buying some games, but majority aren't worth it so a rental will suit me just fine.
 

Jonnyram

Member
I'm kinda curious, how much do these rental companies pay the publishers for rights to rent these games out?
 

Firestorm

Member
I follow a different path. Any game I really want, I'll buy. Any game my friends really want, they'll buy. Unless we all really want the game, only one gets and the rest borrow once they're done =) That way we can also borrow the game again (or buy it) if we feel like replaying.

If it's a handheld game that's built for multiplayer, usually we all buy it.
 

mosaic

go eat paint
Jonnyram said:
I'm kinda curious, how much do these rental companies pay the publishers for rights to rent these games out?
That's the beauty of it--not a dime! They buy it once for fifty bucks and rent it multiple times, reaping the profts! It cuts down on overall sales and keeps excess cash out of the pockets of devs and pubs. Those thieves! Right?! Right?!

You can blame Microsoft partially for that. Ages ago, when Nintendo was trying to crack down on game rentals (during the NES era), Microsoft and others were also trying to stop PC software rentals. Long story short, for a time, PC games and console games were tied together, but then Microsoft and its cronies ejected home video games from the legislation. The PC software legislation went through, the video game legislation did not. I'm sure I butchered that summary, but that's pretty much the gist (the whole story is retold in David Sheff's Game Over book).
 

CB3

intangibles, motherfucker
Gamefly is a god-send. Enables me to play all the games i want to play, without buying or forking over 10 bucks at blockbuster. And games i know ill play for a long time (madden, or upcoming Phantasy Star Universe), i buy those
 

Jeff-DSA

Member
Right now I'm playing Dead Rising, Madden 2007, and have a movie out from Gameznflix. As soon as Dead Rising has ran its course, and I'm frustrated enough with Madden, I'll be on to two more games.

Gameznflix rules, especially for me. I can try out games that I'd normally be on the fence about, or even get those AAA titles that really don't offer much beyond the initial playthrough. Since signing up I've saved tons of money and been able to play through several games completely and hold onto them until I would have shelved them indefinitely anyway.

With the rising costs of games (both console and handheld), renting is the way to go except for the true epics and surefire classics.
 

SnakeXs

about the same metal capacity as a cucumber
I can't bring myself to rent. It's so dirty. CAG-Age disagrees, and that's fine, but 99% of the time I get what I pay for out of a game. I don't play to beat a game, I play because it's fun.

Just a few examples, but I still play MGSs, just because I enjoy it. I still play SotC because I enjoy it. I run through RE4 2 times a year or so. I play DMC3(SE) a shit ton, simply because I enjoy it. Guitar Hero's special, but that's rarely not within grasp. There's very, very few games that I've bought and n eglected, and chances are those once I bought on impulse at later dates.

Oh well, and not to call any one person out, but ADD and whatever motivation for gamers nowadays is beyond me. Chances are if you play a game once and then toss it aside, it wasn't that great a game to begin with.
 

Tarazet

Member
GDJustin said:
The big shift in thinking, and basically a really easy way to sum up my wall of text, is that the quality of a game doesn't determine whether it's a "buy" or a "rent." Basically, it's whether I'll have any desire to play it 60 days after I buy it. Most games, even great ones, don't live up to that criteria.

I feel so good about it!

Okami? Rent!
Yakuza? Rent!
Enchanted Arms? Rent!
Bully? Rent!

Gears of War? Buy! (multiplayer)
Mario Basketball 3on3? Buy!

It's all so clear to me now.

OK, let's say I decide I want to play Dirge of Cerberus. I save a few dollars by buying the first used copy that got traded in to Gamecrazy for $40.90 after tax. I play it for a couple of hours, realize it's a turd, and turn around and list it on Amazon. The low price right now is $44.99. I list it for $44.90, it sells, and after commission I've got $39.46 before I pay for shipping - which is, say, $2. So I've lost out on roughly $3.

The only reason why I use Gamefly is because I might kind of want to see what Starfox Command is like, but know that even if it's incredible I'm just going to send it back. So it basically covers what would be begrudging impulse buys.
 

demi

Member
SnakeXs said:
Chances are if you play a game once and then toss it aside, it wasn't that great a game to begin with.

That describes a lot of GAF sacred cows, hence the reason why I decided to rent the shit

Yakuza? Sucks! Rent it!

Okami! Not gonna get me this time! Rental!

So on and so forth.
 

mug

Member
I'm going to give gamesnflix a go next week - gamefly was too slow for me :( although it did get the job done.
 

Campster

Do you like my tight white sweater? STOP STARING
I beat my brother in chess once. Then I put that goddamned game on the shelf, and it's been sitting there ever since.

And who the hell plays Twister more than once? Maybe twice to get the secret ending if you're a highschooler with a lot of free time.

And Monopoly. Shit, man, I never even finished it the first time through and it's just been collecting dust.

We totally need to be able to rent board games as well, because instead of spending all this cash for plastic pieces and cardboard maps I don't use I could have bought something really awesome.
 

Jeff-DSA

Member
demi said:
That describes a lot of GAF sacred cows, hence the reason why I decided to rent the shit

Yakuza? Sucks! Rent it!

Okami! Not gonna get me this time! Rental!

So on and so forth.

I agree...maybe not with the exact titles, but in principle.

I've been burned with too many titles lately to put off getting into the online rental scene. Fable, Perfect Dark Zero, Madden 2006, NCAA Football 2007, and a bunch of other games haven't been total stinkers, they just haven't been nearly worth what I paid.
 

demi

Member
Campster said:
I beat my brother in chess once. Then I put that goddamned game on the shelf, and it's been sitting there ever since.

And who the hell plays Twister more than once? Maybe twice to get the secret ending if you're a highschooler with a lot of free time.

And Monopoly. Shit, man, I never even finished it the first time through and it's just been collecting dust.

We totally need to be able to rent board games as well, because instead of spending all this cash for plastic pieces and cardboard maps I don't use I could have bought something really awesome.

I think you're in the wrong thread.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
Campster said:
I beat my brother in chess once. Then I put that goddamned game on the shelf, and it's been sitting there ever since.

And who the hell plays Twister more than once? Maybe twice to get the secret ending if you're a highschooler with a lot of free time.

And Monopoly. Shit, man, I never even finished it the first time through and it's just been collecting dust.

We totally need to be able to rent board games as well, because instead of spending all this cash for plastic pieces and cardboard maps I don't use I could have bought something really awesome.

where do you rent your chess equipment? do you use one of those boards that automatically move the chess pieces by magnets?
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Campster said:
I beat my brother in chess once. Then I put that goddamned game on the shelf, and it's been sitting there ever since.

And who the hell plays Twister more than once? Maybe twice to get the secret ending if you're a highschooler with a lot of free time.

And Monopoly. Shit, man, I never even finished it the first time through and it's just been collecting dust.

We totally need to be able to rent board games as well, because instead of spending all this cash for plastic pieces and cardboard maps I don't use I could have bought something really awesome.

You missed the point! It isn't "buy great games, rent the 'just ok' games." That's how I USED to think, and is why I never used a rental service.

It's "buy the replayable games, rent everything else, not matter how great it is."

I'm a big RPG fan - I love the genre. But I almost never, EVER replay RPGs. So why buy them? FFXII and all future RPGs are gonna be rented. :D
 
mosaic said:
That's the beauty of it--not a dime! They buy it once for fifty bucks and rent it multiple times, reaping the profts! It cuts down on overall sales and keeps excess cash out of the pockets of devs and pubs. Those thieves! Right?! Right?!

You can blame Microsoft partially for that. Ages ago, when Nintendo was trying to crack down on game rentals (during the NES era), Microsoft and others were also trying to stop PC software rentals. Long story short, for a time, PC games and console games were tied together, but then Microsoft and its cronies ejected home video games from the legislation. The PC software legislation went through, the video game legislation did not. I'm sure I butchered that summary, but that's pretty much the gist (the whole story is retold in David Sheff's Game Over book).
This is why I don't rent any games.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
By the way, if someone is thinkin about using gameznflix anyway send me a PM or something. I'll "refer" you to them.
 

demi

Member
GDJustin said:
By the way, if someone is thinkin about using gameznflix anyway send me a PM or something. I'll "refer" you to them.

Hey hey hey, first you tell me what the benefit of referrals is before you steal from my userbase.
 

Jonnyram

Member
GDJustin said:
But I almost never, EVER replay RPGs. So why buy them?
Well as mosaic pointed out, when everyone starts thinking like you, publishers are going to take a massive revenue hit and they'll stop making RPGs. Game rentals don't happen in Japan.

I feel like a douche for hating on game rental because I know the majority of GAF is in the US and treats it like one of their god-given rights, but if the rental companies just pay one RRP per game they rent out to X many users, publishers are obviously getting raped. The US industry will suffer big time if this continues. There's no argument about money going back in publishers' pockets because it's clearly not.
 

Mrbob

Member
I don't rent games at all anymore because it sends you down a slippery path. Instead of having fun with the games you want, you feel rushed to beat a rented game so you can get to the next one. If a game is out of stock, then you settle for something else you really didn't want to play in the first place. Or get nothing at all.

My gaming taste is pretty particular. I can pretty much tell you every 360 game I'll buy from now into 2007, and I'm not really going to budge from that list. I don't need to rent because I already know what I want. I don't want to rent because I'm not rushing through the game i like, just to return it, and get the next flavor of the week second tier gaming experience to plow through unsatisfactorly.

If for some reason I won't play a game it'll go on ebay ASAP and I'll recoup most of my purchase price.
 

demi

Member
Yeah but um you can buy the game if you like it from the rental provider. So... yeah. Keep crying. Crybaby.

Crackdown sucks. Rental!
 
I fail to see how renting games is that different from pirating games or buying bootleg chinese(or other countries.. not that I've heard of that happening) copies. You know, someone had to buy the game to put it up for download or to make illegal copies of it. The copies rental stores buy alone isn't enough to finance any sort of decent game. Hell if you rent a game multiple times or just keep a copy, its the same as just renting it once as far as how much money is going to people who actually paid to have the game made.

This is why I don't rent or steal games, movies, or music. I actually have the abilty to think about the consequences of my actions beyond just how much money things are going to cost me.
 

White Man

Member
The case for not renting games or buying used copies of games I know I will like:

I like knowing that developers are getting paid for their work.
 

demi

Member
BioGenesis said:
I fail to see how renting games is that different from pirating games or buying bootleg chinese(or other countries.. not that I've heard of that happening) copies. You know, someone had to buy the game to put it up for download or to make illegal copies of it. The copies rental stores buy alone isn't enough to finance any sort of decent game. Hell if you rent a game multiple times or just keep a copy, its the same as just renting it once as far as how much money is going to people who actually paid to have the game made.

This is why I don't rent or steal games, movies, or music. I actually have the abilty to think about the consequences of my actions beyond just how much money things are going to cost me.

Tell you what, in order to even out my complete insolence and evil methods to the industry, you go out and buy two copies of a game. Deal?
 

Jiggy

Member
GDJustin said:
The games that should have a permanent home in a library or those that will be revisited, be it for multiplayer, "quick bursts," or whatever else.
QFT, man. QFT.



Although I personally see that as more a case for buying and re-selling than renting, since I do want to show my support for the developers.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
30 days of Oblivion is worth the admission price to me. Plus the convenience of playing any time I want.

And, I kind of a collector snob.

I should have downloaded that Dead Rising demo before buying first, though. Oops. :(
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
my credo is:

if a game is good enough to rent, its good enough to buy.

at which price, though, is the question.
 

Spencerr

Banned
haven't started renting online yet but if I rent from block buster for 7.99, I can keep it for 12 days. On the 13th day, they bill me for it, but I have 30 days to get it back and only pay 1.25.
9.25 for 42 days which is a lot longer than I play most games.
 

Jonnyram

Member
davepoobond said:
if a game is good enough to rent, its good enough to buy.

at which price, though, is the question.
moneydumbass.jpg


Exactly! If a game is not worth $50, don't ****ing charge $50 for it. It's so simple, but publishers have no idea how to price games anymore.
 

demi

Member
davepoobond said:
my credo is:

if a game is good enough to rent, its good enough to buy.

at which price, though, is the question.

Ok, so you rent it, you finish it, or sample it, whatever.

You have a hankering to replay it or want to finish your game, pick it up down the road on the cheap.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
demi said:
Ok, so you rent it, you finish it, or sample it, whatever.

You have a hankering to replay it or want to finish your game, pick it up down the road on the cheap.

i guess i'm at the disability of not believing in renting. i've only rented stuff like 5 times in my life, 3 times for class. i was always taught that renting things was stupid ::shrug::

besides, there's always the chance you won't be able to pick up a game "on the cheap" later on.

my biggest folly so far in my game buying was chosing Vanguard Bandits over Valkyrie Profile and Persona 2 because i didn't have enough money. not exactly "easy" or "cheap" to pick those up now =p
 

Kangu

Banned
Jonnyram said:
moneydumbass.jpg


Exactly! If a game is not worth $50, don't ****ing charge $50 for it. It's so simple, but publishers have no idea how to price games anymore.

It's funny because developers seem to realize this but publishers are completely clueless. I've seen several prominent developers speak out against overpriced games, games priced out of the 'mass market' yet publishers continue to do nothing. Except Nintendo, and they're making a killing on it. I know I would give way more games a chance if they were 20 bucks a pop. Sad to say I have passed on may a decent game for monetary reasons. Gaming is more or less only affordable as a hobby if you exclude all other hobbies.
 

demi

Member
davepoobond said:
i guess i'm at the disability of not believing in renting. i've only rented stuff like 5 times in my life, 3 times for class. i was always taught that renting things was stupid ::shrug::

besides, there's always the chance you won't be able to pick up a game "on the cheap" later on.

my biggest folly so far in my game buying was chosing Vanguard Bandits over Valkyrie Profile and Persona 2 because i didn't have enough money. not exactly "easy" or "cheap" to pick those up now =p

I have a copy of Persona 2 I'd sell you cheap but for some reason it wont load past the title screen. I ripped it to my PC and it ran on emulator just fine, so I dunno what the deal is. You can take it off my hands and give it the ol' Disc Doctor or something if you'd like to tempt the fates
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
demi said:
I have a copy of Persona 2 I'd sell you cheap but for some reason it wont load past the title screen. I ripped it to my PC and it ran on emulator just fine, so I dunno what the deal is. You can take it off my hands and give it the ol' Disc Doctor or something if you'd like to tempt the fates

its tempting, but i'll pass at this point. i was just makin a reference.


if anyone is wondering what Vanguard Bandits is, its a Working Designs localized strategy game that had stupid mech battles...i only bought it cause i was really into Front Mission 3 at the time =p
 

JB1981

Member
If you're a PS2 owner right now, there's absolutely no excuse for renting games.. 360 owners - not really either. Not with demos for basically every game being readily available.
 

Spencerr

Banned
JB1981 said:
If you're a PS2 owner right now, there's absolutely no excuse for renting games.. 360 owners - not really either. Not with demos for basically every game being readily available.

This doesn't make sense. If I'm only going to play a game for a few weeks why should I pay $60 and own it forever?
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
JB1981 said:
If you're a PS2 owner right now, there's absolutely no excuse for renting games.. 360 owners - not really either. Not with demos for basically every game being readily available.

go back from whenst you came, spawn of hell!
 

demi

Member
JB1981 said:
If you're a PS2 owner right now, there's absolutely no excuse for renting games

Why isn't there? Are you - saaaaad - that your precious Yakuza and Okamis aren't getting purchased?

WELL GOOD, PISS OFF
 

JB1981

Member
Spencerr said:
This doesn't make sense. If I'm only going to play a game for a few weeks why should I pay $60 and own it forever?

There's just way too many great titles for $20 and $40.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Jonnyram said:
Well as mosaic pointed out, when everyone starts thinking like you, publishers are going to take a massive revenue hit and they'll stop making RPGs. Game rentals don't happen in Japan.

I feel like a douche for hating on game rental because I know the majority of GAF is in the US and treats it like one of their god-given rights, but if the rental companies just pay one RRP per game they rent out to X many users, publishers are obviously getting raped. The US industry will suffer big time if this continues. There's no argument about money going back in publishers' pockets because it's clearly not.

I hear ya, very much so. But as a consumer that's not something that I should be concerning myself with. As a consumer, I want the best value for my dollar, period.

If there's such a huge latent demand for this stuff (game rentals), and the success of GameFly seems to indicate that there is, then that SHOULD be a reflection of issues facing the gaming industry at large. Instead publishers just paint a big "bullseye" on the rental business.

The success of these services shows, to me, that many gamers are simply voting with their dollars. They're saying "yes, I enjoy Yakuza. I want Yakuza. But $50 is too much."

There is a problem with videogames in general, and gamers' rental enthusiasm isn't a cause of it, it's a reflection of it.

As for RPGs, I stand by my point. By renting and not buying, I'm telling publishers that the lack of replay incentive cost them my money. Maybe the "standard" for RPGs should be to serialize them, or something. Just one potential solution.
 
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