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[GDJustin]

I hear ya, very much so. But as a consumer that's not something that I should be concerning myself with. As a consumer, I want the best value for my dollar, period.

If there's such a huge latent demand for this stuff (game rentals), and the success of GameFly seems to indicate that there is, then that SHOULD be a reflection of issues facing the gaming industry at large. Instead publishers just paint a big "bullseye" on the rental business.

The success of these services shows, to me, that many gamers are simply voting with their dollars. They're saying "yes, I enjoy Yakuza. I want Yakuza. But $50 is too much."

There is a problem with videogames in general, and gamers' rental enthusiasm isn't a cause of it, it's a reflection of it.

As for RPGs, I stand by my point. By renting and not buying, I'm telling publishers that the lack of replay incentive cost them my money. Maybe the "standard" for RPGs should be to serialize them, or something. Just one potential solution.

Or imagine this: through the wonders of digital distribution, publishers can handle "rentals" themselves.

I can download cloning clyde and own it forever for a $10 flat fee, or I can "subscribe" to Cloning Clyde and have access to the full version for say $6/month.

When boxed games go digital as well, it could be the same principal. A single play through of FFXV could be $28, and owning unlimited access to the title for all-time would be the standard $50 - the equiv. of buying it in-store.

There's solutions out there to the issues facing publishers, but it seems most of them would rather bury their heads in the sand.

 

[Gigglepoo]

This is why I don't rent any games.

I make it a point to buy games I desperately want to be made/ported to America. I'm using Gamefly for most of my gaming needs now, but I am still going to buy some games this year. Okami needs my support. Capcom should know that I want games like this and the only way I can vote is with my wallet. Some with Viva. I love my X360 but would like some variety. The only way MS can know how I feel is if I buy this game.

Stuff like Saints Row, though fun, I don't actually care about. I don't care if SR2 comes out nor do I think it is so good that Volition needs my money.

 

[Acosta]

I'm kinda curious, how much do these rental companies pay the publishers for rights to rent these games out?

Zero.

For me, rental and piratery is the same, you still enjoy something without paying the ones that made the game. If I don´t feel a game is worth 50$, I don´t buy it, or I wait until the prize drops.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

See, not wanting to play after a month is a problem of a game in and of itself. I buy games that are very easy to pick up and play months later. Oblivion and Dead Rising are both terrific examples.

 

[thetrin]

The big shift in thinking, and basically a really easy way to sum up my wall of text, is that the quality of a game doesn't determine whether it's a "buy" or a "rent." Basically, it's whether I'll have any desire to play it 60 days after I buy it. Most games, even great ones, don't live up to that criteria.

I feel so good about it!

Okami? Rent!
Yakuza? Rent!
Enchanted Arms? Rent!
Bully? Rent!

Gears of War? Buy! (multiplayer)
Mario Basketball 3on3? Buy!

It's all so clear to me now.

Okami is a rent? Choke on a dick.

 

[BlizzyAzz]

Well in Germany where I live, there are no services like Gameznflix, Gamefly or whatever (at least I have never heard of anyone), you can only rent movies but no games online (except some very expensive ones) and the prices on the local video rental aren't that great either, first day 3 Euro (nearly 4 US Dollar) any further day 1.80 Euro (about 2.50 US). So I rent only games when I know that they are not that big and I can handle them in about 2 - 3 days (like Prey).

 

[Joeroll]

Just when I thought the rental/gamefly/gameznflix word was spread enough. It comes back! Seriously are there gamefly spies on the board? Or do people get paid to do do this? :lol

 

[DCharlie]

PAGING PANA! where is "THAT" article!?!

 

[Spencerr]

See, not wanting to play after a month is a problem of a game in and of itself. I buy games that are very easy to pick up and play months later. Oblivion and Dead Rising are both terrific examples.

Exactly. other games are rentals.

 

[Jonnyram]

I hear ya, very much so. But as a consumer that's not something that I should be concerning myself with. As a consumer, I want the best value for my dollar, period.

Well if you are legally entitled to do that in your country, that's fine for you, I guess, but ethically I place rentals on the same level as piracy because the publisher is not getting your cash. By renting games, you're basically giving the finger to developers whose games you love.

The success of these services shows, to me, that many gamers are simply voting with their dollars. They're saying "yes, I enjoy Yakuza. I want Yakuza. But $50 is too much."

So when they release Yakuza for $20, the rental companies will charge you $4 a month instead of $10, and you still won't see any reason to buy it.

 

[thetrin]

Well if you are legally entitled to do that in your country, that's fine for you, I guess, but ethically I place rentals on the same level as piracy because the publisher is not getting your cash. By renting games, you're basically giving the finger to developers whose games you love.

So when they release Yakuza for $20, the rental companies will charge you $4 a month instead of $10, and you still won't see any reason to buy it.

I <3 you Jonnyram.

 

[Brofist]

old as hell article but related to this topic. game rentals can work if done right.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6148316.html?sid=6148316&sid=6148316

Today in Japan, Koei announced that its game distribution subsidiary Koei Net will launch a game-rental business, an unprecedented offering that will shake up Japan's game market. Until now, the Japanese game industry has successfully blocked efforts to introduce rentals here, claiming they would hurt game sales and reduce revenue.

Koei believes that just the opposite is true. According to Koei, rather than cannibalizing game sales, its game rental service will yield an additional revenue stream for publishers, resulting in higher total revenue. The industry will soon see which viewpoint is right: Koei Net's service, dubbed "RentaNet," will launch in the second half of May.

here's a link to rentanet

 

[Tieno]

Well if you are legally entitled to do that in your country, that's fine for you, I guess, but ethically I place rentals on the same level as piracy because the publisher is not getting your cash. By renting games, you're basically giving the finger to developers whose games you love.

Then why doesn't the game industry do something about this?

 

[thetrin]

Then why doesn't the game industry do something about this?

...what would they do? I'm sure someone in the industry is making money off of it. It's just not the right people.

 

[Tieno]

...what would they do? I'm sure someone in the industry is making money off of it. It's just not the right people.

Maybe develop a rental model where x percentage of rental revenue goes to publishers/developers (just like with buying games).

 

[DCharlie]

Then why doesn't the game industry do something about this?

ARGGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGH PANA?!?! COME ON! IT IS TIME!!!!
WHERE ARE YOU!?

 

[Javaman]

Well if you are legally entitled to do that in your country, that's fine for you, I guess, but ethically I place rentals on the same level as piracy because the publisher is not getting your cash. By renting games, you're basically giving the finger to developers whose games you love.

So when they release Yakuza for $20, the rental companies will charge you $4 a month instead of $10, and you still won't see any reason to buy it.

How do you feel about the purchasing of pre-owned games? It's almost the same principal, where the developers don't make any more profit, yet it is swapping a physical product.

In my case I try to buy just about every game I think I'll like once it drops into the greatest hits or or decent pre-owned price. It's hard to justify spending $8 to rent a game that you can buy for $15 (ignoring Gamefly of course). My biggest fear though in renting is that eventually you just aren't going to be able to find most games for rent anywhere. If you missed out on a PS1 game that you would like to play you're pretty much SOL unless you resort to expensive e-bay auctions. With generations from N64 and earlier people can still find the classics to play through "shady" means, but I have a feeling that larger size PS1 and beyond are going to be harder to find.

 

[LakeEarth]

With generations from N64 and earlier people can still find the classics to play through "shady" means, but I have a feeling that larger size PS1 and beyond are going to be harder to find.

Wrong.

 

[charlequin]

How do you feel about the purchasing of pre-owned games? It's almost the same principal, where the developers don't make any more profit, yet it is swapping a physical product.

The cavalcade of people who will come out now decrying used games as morally wrong are a large part of what pisses me off about having this discussion. I'm all for supporting developers (and I do buy many games rather than rent them largely for that reason) but I think it's ridiculous that there are so many people on here who buy the "consumers should have no copyright freedoms" line. Renting and buying used are both freedoms that should be protected. If that impacts the profitability of video game publishers, they need to adopt their model to adjust for that fact. If that means accelerating the adoption of downloadable games or (gasp!) tiered pricing so that more games are actually worth the asking price then so be it.

 

[GDJustin]

This discussion has taken a weird turn.

I have a stack of textbooks I have no use for anymore. Shouldn't I be able to take something I own, give it to someone who wants it, in exchange for something I want (money)? "But OMG the publishing companies won't be getting a cut!" I OWN the goddamn product - it's mine to sell or use or throw in the trash, as I see fit.

So so what if the textbook companies aren't getting a cut on used book sales? There's huuuuge demand for a second-hand textbook market for a reason. People resell other stuff too (computers come to mind), but you don't hear about that second-hand market HURTING the primary channel (retail).

The rental & secondhand markets for games and textbooks being so damn huge should be a strong indicator that consumers believe retail prices are too high.

JonnyRam, I AGREE with you that rentail companies either need to pay much more than retail for their stock, or the publishers need to be given a cut of each rental. In fact it's kind of insane that publishers AREN'T given a cut of each rental.

But these publishers don't need charity, ok? They're businesses. Their sole goal day to day year to year is to MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE. There is absolutely no reason any publisher should ever get a pity purchase from me or anyone else. As a capitalistic consumer, it's my goal to play the games I want, spending as little money as possible.

 

[PhatSaqs]

I don't rent games at all anymore because it sends you down a slippery path. Instead of having fun with the games you want, you feel rushed to beat a rented game so you can get to the next one. If a game is out of stock, then you settle for something else you really didn't want to play in the first place. Or get nothing at all.

My gaming taste is pretty particular. I can pretty much tell you every 360 game I'll buy from now into 2007, and I'm not really going to budge from that list. I don't need to rent because I already know what I want. I don't want to rent because I'm not rushing through the game i like, just to return it, and get the next flavor of the week second tier gaming experience to plow through unsatisfactorly.

If for some reason I won't play a game it'll go on ebay ASAP and I'll recoup most of my purchase price.

Nailed.

 

[levious]

That's the beauty of it--not a dime! They buy it once for fifty bucks and rent it multiple times, reaping the profts! It cuts down on overall sales and keeps excess cash out of the pockets of devs and pubs. Those thieves! Right?! Right?!

You can blame Microsoft partially for that. Ages ago, when Nintendo was trying to crack down on game rentals (during the NES era), Microsoft and others were also trying to stop PC software rentals. Long story short, for a time, PC games and console games were tied together, but then Microsoft and its cronies ejected home video games from the legislation. The PC software legislation went through, the video game legislation did not. I'm sure I butchered that summary, but that's pretty much the gist (the whole story is retold in David Sheff's Game Over book).

The concern was ease of duplication. Much the same reason why CD rentals were banned but not video/dvd. Doesn't make sense really, they actually reasoned that it was "very hard" to hook up two vcr's to copy a movie as opposed to duplicating a CD onto cassette.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

The case for not renting games or buying used copies of games I know I will like:

I like knowing that developers are getting paid for their work.

Make a good freakin game that's replayable and i'll buy it.
Make an "eh it's ok" game you play once and throw aside and I'll rent it just so I can say I've played it.
That's how the free market economy works
yay capitalism!

 

[McHuj]

I use Gamefly, because too many games do not have worthwhile replay value. I love renting games, I'm not going to restate the reasons.

However, no one should worry about publishers and developers because of renting and used game sales.

My guess is that downloadable episodic game content will cut into the rental and used game market or even virtually eliminate it.

Buy the "game" for $25, then the extra levels/episodes/worlds/etc through out the year for another $10-15 a pop.

 

[Kelegacy]

Okami is a rent? Choke on a dick.

Agreed. Okami has the potential to be the best game this entire Fall season. Probably will be up for PS2 game of the year anyway.

Early reviews have been amazing, and it has been compared to Zelda many times.

 

[demi]

Agreed. Okami has the potential to be the best game this entire Fall season. Probably will be up for PS2 game of the year anyway.

Early reviews have been amazing, and it has been compared to Zelda many times.

I'M NOT PAYING FOR POTENTIAL

 

[Ranger X]

I see renting game very differently than most people here as it seems...
The real problem imo is people renting games to beat them instead of buying them.

Personally i rent games i'm not exactly sure they are worth my money. This way i'm more aware of what i'm purchasing. I'm even buying MORE games and games i'm less deceived in general when i buy a game because if i wasn't sure i tried it before buying.

When i rent a game, if i'm satisfied i stop playing it, give it back to the rental store and then i go buy the game at the store. If a game is worth my money, the small 4-7$ i spend to try it doesn't mean shit. It's important to BUY games at full price and as a soon as possible so your money can influence something but it's equally important to buy what you really really like so to make your vote mean something.
To "rent in order to buy" is the best possible behavior imo. And it's almost no risk ($$)

Also, publishers must probably see renting like that and also as some form of publicity.
If i make a game i want all the cheap ass to try it. If it's good enough i may convince some to buy my game. It's also EXCELLENT for the word of mouth --- and word of mouth is more important that you think for publishers. If your game is crap, you go down the crapper hardcore but if you're game is good, this rental/buy system is top ****ing notch for the publisher.

What really hurt is used games sales and guess what, that's why publishers are already working on stopping that shit or getting money out of it.

 

[Chris Remo]

Then why doesn't the game industry do something about this?

They would love to, but the rental industry holds all the cards. What are they supposed to do about it now? Rental companies already are in the best situation they could have; they get games for regular price and put them up as soon as they're released. The games industry has nothing to barter with. The only think I can think of is that they would let them rent games before they're released to retail in exchange for royalties or higher initial purchase prices, but think that would be even worse. Retailers would also throw enormous tantrums.

They're pretty much stuck.

 

[Chris Remo]

What really hurt is used games sales and guess what, that's why publishers are already working on stopping that shit or getting money out of it.

I don't see them being able to do anything about it. They've never made any meaningful strides in that direction. Publishers gain nothing from used book sales, record labels gain nothing from used CD sales, studios gain nothing from used DVD sales. The gaming industry is already far behind those other industries in terms of the retail situation, so I don't see why they'd somehow get it to work.

Of course, the difference between games and those other industries is that used game sales are actually getting pretty close to being 50% of business for specialty game stores, even (especially) the big corporate chains--that's unheard of in those other industries, and is a really negative thing for game publishers. That makes retailers all the more likely not to give and ground in that area, because they rely on it so much to run their shitty craptastic stores--which, I should point out, are so far below the quality of a good record store or good bookstore it's laughable. Video game retail sucks.

So that's why I don't buy any used games either, in addition to not renting. The only exception is when buying used is the only option, generally for older games.

 

[Kelegacy]

I'M NOT PAYING FOR POTENTIAL

Um, the reviewers have already weighed in, many of them. I've yet to see a score below 9.0

And your tastes matter jack to me, you're playing Enchanted Arms.

 

[shuri]

I can't believe some of you guys are so against rental. I would think you guys would have more problems with piracy or something.

People can go right now and download new titles like Yakuza before street date at 1mb/s without paying a single thing and they get to keep them. AND they are able to make copies for their friends.

This is a bigger problem than rental businesses. I highly doubt that a rental copy of a game will end up being played by more than 30-40 people before being unplayable, forcing netflix or whatever to buy another a copy.

While a pirate copy is only bought once by the group, and then redistributed an unlimited amount of time, forever.

Where is the real problem?

 

[demi]

And you obviously don't enjoy paying for potential, you bought Enchant Arms.

No I didn't. :lol

OWNZORRRRRD

Okami sucks! Rent it!

 

[GDJustin]

Um, the reviewers have already weighed in, many of them. I've yet to see a score below 9.0

And you obviously don't enjoy paying for potential, you bought Enchant Arms.

He rented Enchanted Arms

Edit: Damn you Demi.

 

[Kelegacy]

No I didn't. :lol

OWNZORRRRRD

Okami sucks! Rent it!

You beat me to my edit.

Either way, doesn't matter.

 

[demi]

Clearly it does!

Don't support Okami or Yakuza! Rent it!

Make gaffots cry one day at a time! Yes!

 

[Chris Remo]

I can't believe some of you guys are so against rental. I would think you guys would have more problems with piracy or something.

People can go right now and download new titles like Yakuza before street date at 1mb/s without paying a single thing and they get to keep them. AND they are able to make copies for their friends.

This is a bigger problem than rental businesses. I highly doubt that a rental copy of a game will end up being played by more than 30-40 people before being unplayable, forcing netflix or whatever to buy another a copy.

While a pirate copy is only bought once by the group, and then redistributed an unlimited amount of time, forever.

Where is the real problem?

How is that different? A rental place buys a copy of the game, maybe a bunch of copies if it's a super duper popular game, but how much real impact is that going to have for the publisher or developer? I'd obviously rather see somebody rent than pirate, but why should I be in support of either? Saying one thing is fine just because it's not as harmful as another thing is meaningless.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

If I only rent games that I would never buy, and then end up buying some of them from gamefly because I really like them doesn't the gaming industry only win in that situation?

First they win because I'm playing their game which otherwise might not have been bought by gamefly and second they win because I find out I like it and buy it. How does the industry lose in this situation?

I'm sick and tired of paying $60 for halfass games and trading them in for a measly amount. If the gaming industry doesn't want me to rent games either they need to make more games that are worth $60 or they need to reduce the price.

 

[Chris Remo]

If I only rent games that I would never buy, and then end up buying some of them from gamefly because I really like them doesn't the gaming industry only win in that situation?

It maybe wins occasionally, if GameFly happens to need another copy of that game and buys it.

Also, you don't need to spend $60 for games. I buy nearly everything new, but I rarely pay that price. You don't need everything on the first day.

 

[Truelize]

I like to rent games. But there are so many games that I need to buy. I am very much a part of that "first day of release excitement junky" when it comes to games. I will even buy a game that I know I wont have time to play for a while. Not a good investment idea, I know, but it's how I shop. I also don't get rid of any game that I really enjoyed. Even if I never plan to play it again I keep it on my shelf like a freakin trophy of gaming completion. People do the same thing with books and it doesn't make any sense. It's smarter to rent and/or trade in your completed games. But I don't get the same enjoyment out of a game like that.

Like Mr.Bob said earlier I don't like feeling like I HAVE to play a certain game because I rented it and need to keep progressing through it so I can have it finished up before it goes back. I have become a total 360 achievement addict. I rent games and cannot bring them back until I have every single achievement. Heck I even rent some games just so I can get the achievements cause I know it will be quick (Madden 360, NBA Live 06). But for the truly good/great games I want to own them.

I will buy a game because:
- it's a title I am looking forward too.
- or is an example of game innovation. I like to support companies that choose to try new things. I picked up Advent Rising and Psyconauts on day 1 because they were different games and I felt that these development groups deserved my support.
I have a bleeding heart for companies that I feel should get the games sales and don't. It was a sad day when Oddworld Inhabitants closed their doors and it was a direct example of gamers not supporting an original game idea.

Renting is fine. Nothing wrong with it. But I will always buy the games I want as long as I can afford it.

 

[demi]

I bought Dead Rising so clearly I am support good games, get off my nuuuuuuuuuuuuttttzzzz

okami sucks

 

[Ranger X]

Of course, the difference between games and those other industries is that used game sales are actually getting pretty close to being 50% of business for specialty game stores, even (especially) the big corporate chains--that's unheard of in those other industries, and is a really negative thing for game publishers. That makes retailers all the more likely not to give and ground in that area, because they rely on it so much to run their shitty craptastic stores--which, I should point out, are so far below the quality of a good record store or good bookstore it's laughable. Video game retail sucks.

I understand and agree with you for the most part. But publishers DO push online stuff and want the customer to get used to digital download. The goal of this is to slowly move the market toward digital distribution where they will earn and keep all the revenues. And it will eventually happen someday, just give it time.

The point i want to make accross is that buying used games and renting games in quite completely different. Imo, buying used games is bad for the industry and renting is good. Renting is good quite like "controlled piracy" is also benifiting.

 

[thetrin]

I bought Dead Rising so clearly I am support good games, get off my nuuuuuuuuuuuuttttzzzz

okami sucks

demi
DO NOT BELIEVE MY GAME IMPRESSIONS

It just can't be posted enough.

 

[demi]

I want to lick your bitter tears when you learn Okami FLOPS

 

[Kelegacy]

I want to lick your bitter tears when you learn Okami FLOPS

Do you mean by sales figures? It won't matter, we're still going to get to play this amazing game whether it sells well or not.

If by flop you mean SUCKS, then you are going to be so freakin' wrong. Have you even read a review yet? It is one of the best games of the year.

My prediction: Okami will not flop commercially. The same way Shadow of the Colossus didn't flop. You will never see something like Okami on the 360, or the original Xbox, ever. That's why so many people own a PS2. Also, people like Zelda. People like beautiful visuals. They will play Okami. The only thing that could hurt the game is the obscure name. And I doubt that will matter much.

And if Okami sells like crap, while guano like Ninety-Nine Nights endures a success, then it is only further proof that our industry is filled with idiot consumers. Gamers are not a very brilliant subclass of humanity.

 

[demi]

No need to damage control, bro, it is only inevitable

Rentals ftw!

 

[Truelize]

It does suck that Okami will likely not sell well, cause if you like innovation then Okami is overflowing with it.

 

[ConsumerSquare]

Is Okami 16:9?

Uh, as for the topic...I don't rent anymore. And by "anymore," I mean "since the 16-bit era passed." Mostly it's because I have enough money to buy impulsively. But even if I didn't, renting takes away half the fun of gaming: the purchase. It's probably a hold-over from back when buying a game as a kid was a once a year thing.

 

[Zylander]

The big shift in thinking, and basically a really easy way to sum up my wall of text, is that the quality of a game doesn't determine whether it's a "buy" or a "rent." Basically, it's whether I'll have any desire to play it 60 days after I buy it. Most games, even great ones, don't live up to that criteria.

I feel so good about it!

Okami? Rent!
Yakuza? Rent!
Enchanted Arms? Rent!
Bully? Rent!

Gears of War? Buy! (multiplayer)
Mario Basketball 3on3? Buy!

It's all so clear to me now.

After the years and ****ing effort put into Okami, why would you rent? Particularly as it's apparently a pretty long game. If we can afford to buy, then it makes sense to support the games you would like to see more of.

I guess the same could be said of Oblivion, you got your money's worth.

In general I agree with you though.

 

[thetrin]

I want to lick your bitter tears when you learn Okami FLOPS

I don't give a shit if it flops. I'm not part of the Sales Age beancounters. I already played the game when it came out in April, and it was ****ing fantastic.

Go play some ****ing advent rising.

 

[demi]

Playing Yakuza causes you to swear too ****ing much, good thing I will not be buying it!

And the part where you told someone to "choke on a dick" for renting Okami? Cute too! But you clearly don't care!

Rentals ftw! Your games suck!