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[Bo_Hazem]

I don't understand why Sony would show off unreal 5 with the ps5 if virtually none of their big studios use the engine, unlike Microsoft.

When did Sony show off Unreal Engine 5? Epic Games showed that off. Also Days Gone used UE4, same with Returnal. UE4 wasn't as efficient as proprietary engines, but small studios tend to go for the lazy, cheaper choice.

 

[Dr Bass]

Because it was demoed on a console now means it was built for it? Ehhh, I highly doubt that, as it was built for PC, and ported down to consoles and phones. This is how it has always been, and always will be. Not sure what you are saying otherwise. It definitely hyped up the never before seen, new product, the SSD. Buy that's about it. The GPU still needs to render the data, which there are stronger GPU's out there, and if the data throughput was maxed out on ps5, don't you think it would have been mentioned, or at least the amount of data being used per second?

They claimed there were things happening with the demo made only possible with the speed of the PS5 SSD. That was Epic's claim anyway.

They also claimed the GPU wasn't taxed in that demo, and it was a result of how Nanite and Lumen are designed.

So that would make sense IF they were telling the truth, that what we saw in that demo was currently only possible on PS5 since PS5 has the best I/O implementation on the market right now. The focus on that by Sony, it seems, wasn't an accident.

 

[Marvel]

Oh my

 

[NEbeast]

*Screeches from mother's basement while feverishly itching neckbeard*



"But....But unreal engine 5 is exclusive!"

You try way too hard to be funny.

 

[elliot5]

is there a thread that doesn't devolve into number warring over SSDs

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

They claimed there were things happening with the demo made only possible with the speed of the PS5 SSD. That was Epic's claim anyway.

They also claimed the GPU wasn't taxed in that demo, and it was a result of how Nanite and Lumen are designed.

So that would make sense IF they were telling the truth, that what we saw in that demo was currently only possible on PS5 since PS5 has the best I/O implementation on the market right now. The focus on that by Sony, it seems, wasn't an accident.

If the GPU wasn't utilized much, and the GPU needs to process the data from the SSD, isn't it obvious that the data streaming couldn't be that high to begin with? It may have the best i/o *currently*, but it's all hypothetical till we have a direct comparison or at least a numerical amount of data being steamed per interval.

You will never gain free performance by having a faster SSD, that data still needs to be rendered. Theres no cerny magic that can change the logistics of the pipeline. It's only possibly on ps5, until the honeymoon period is over, and Sweeney releases this on PC and faces the backlash of his tweets from last year.

 

[MonarchJT]

Might be the case but if the UE5 demo only utilised as much of the GPU as Fortnite then things will only keep getting better from what we’ve seen.

I agree!! i expect amazing things from ue5 across the board! .. but honestly if you think that demo was possible with that level of detail / fps / res ONLY on ps5 thanks to its i/o ... our conversation can end here

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

You try way too hard to be funny.

*Empathy reaction*


Wasn't trying, and 28ppl disagree. Follow up with them, and their sense of humor, not me.

 

[Bergoglio]

I expect something incredible with Series X and UE5.

 

[ikbalCO]

Great, new engine, new ip.

Please, no more gears. PLEASE!

 

[Dr Bass]

If the GPU wasn't utilized much, and the GPU needs to process the data from the SSD, isn't it obvious that the data streaming couldn't be that high to begin with? It may have the best i/o *currently*, but it's all hypothetical till we have a direct comparison or at least a numerical amount of data being steamed per interval.

You will never gain free performance by having a faster SSD, that data still needs to be rendered. Theres no cerny magic that can change the logistics of the pipeline. It's only possibly on ps5, until the honeymoon period is over, and Sweeney releases this on PC and faces the backlash of his tweets from last year.

Here:

PS5 SSD Is 'Far Ahead' of High-End PCs, Epic Games CEO Says - IGN

The PlayStation 5 breakthroughs on SSD and storage are ahead of any PC alternatives.

www.ign.com

He mentions streaming in polygon data per frame. Obviously that kind of IO would break down on anything slower, but I don't know the details. I don't work on UE5. Simply going on what they clearly stated.

They have stated Nanite and Lumen will work everywhere. Makes sense. But they are stating they are clearly putting in exclusive PS5 features because it's so far ahead in the IO department. I mean look at the RE8 difference, it's obviously massive. And you won't be able to count on PCs having anything in that range either because of the disparity in builds. Even when the top tier PCs can catch up to PS5 in that area.

I'll be really curious to see if it all played out in real world differences. Maybe it won't. Regardless, games made with the new tech will surely look great across the board.

 

[Iced Arcade]

But I was told only PS5 could use this engine!

Stop reading posts from the stable

 

[MonarchJT]

When did Sony show off Unreal Engine 5? Epic Games showed that off. Also Days Gone used UE4, same with Returnal. UE4 wasn't as efficient as proprietary engines, but small studios tend to go for the lazy, cheaper choice.

and 99% this will continue in this gen...I don't see guerrillas, naughty dogs or ssm abandon their engines ...that demo very likely exist because of the agreements made during Sony's investments in Epic. at this point it seems more than obvious. Many simply fell for it

 

[bitbydeath]

I agree!! i expect amazing things from ue5 across the board! .. but honestly if you think that demo was possible with that level of detail / fps / res ONLY on ps5 thanks to its i/o ... our conversation can end here

That’s the word from the developers, I’m not going to claim to know more than them.

 

[MonarchJT]

That’s the word from the developers, I’m not going to claim to know more than them.

there are also other words from dev IMHO more plausible about this demo if you are open enough to understand what happened. I'm amazed that after what's coming up during the Apple / Epic trial people still think the industry is so pure. lol

 

[ZywyPL]

Gears is the game that started all the UE3 craze back in the PS360 days, and to this day is THE game that's the engine's best showcase, so A) it was more than obvious they'll continue to use it, and B) will most likely remain the studio that will utilize it to its fullest potential. Couldn't be any less excited about yet another Gears game tho, looking forward for their new IP instead.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Here:

PS5 SSD Is 'Far Ahead' of High-End PCs, Epic Games CEO Says - IGN

The PlayStation 5 breakthroughs on SSD and storage are ahead of any PC alternatives.

www.ign.com

He mentions streaming in polygon data per frame. Obviously that kind of IO would break down on anything slower, but I don't know the details. I don't work on UE5. Simply going on what they clearly stated.

They have stated Nanite and Lumen will work everywhere. Makes sense. But they are stating they are clearly putting in exclusive PS5 features because it's so far ahead in the IO department. I mean look at the RE8 difference, it's obviously massive. And you won't be able to count on PCs having anything in that range either because of the disparity in builds. Even when the top tier PCs can catch up to PS5 in that area.

I'll be really curious to see if it all played out in real world differences. Maybe it won't. Regardless, games made with the new tech will surely look great across the board.

I personally believe it's great on paper, just probably not applicable in real world. I love that tech is being pushed now that consoles have finally ditched HDD's after like 10+ years later. But I don't think we will have any games on the ue5 level. Especially if we are seeing frame drops in performance mode, quality mode, and raytracing modes. It's crazy to believe the excuse of: "RE8 is last gen game, even though the game drops as low as 47fps, but next gen games will run completely different!".

 

[Bo_Hazem]

and 99% this will continue in this gen...I don't see guerrillas, naughty dogs or ssm abandon their engines ...that demo very likely exist because of the agreements made during Sony's investments in Epic. at this point it seems more than obvious. Many simply fell for it

Fell for what? Data streaming was existing in Sony Atom View engine since 2017 and those proprietary engines will have their version. In any case this will make PS5 have a massive advantage in 3rd party games built in UE5 due to being optimized for PS5, it's not about 1st party alone.

 

[Tutomos]

Don't let 343 drag them down now that Rob has left.

 

[bitbydeath]

there are also other words from dev IMHO more plausible about this demo if you are open enough to understand what happened. I'm amazed that after what's coming up during the Apple / Epic trial people still think the industry is so pure. lol

Got a link?

 

[Hobbygaming]

I don't understand why Sony would show off unreal 5 with the ps5 if virtually none of their big studios use the engine, unlike Microsoft.

Sony Bend's next game will most likely use Unreal Engine 5

 

[Bernkastel]

In any case this will make PS5 have a massive advantage in 3rd party games built in UE5 due to being optimized for PS5, it's not about 1st party alone.

Just like how 3rd Party games were supposed to have "significantly better load times" on PS5?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Just like how 3rd Party games were supposed to have "significantly better load times" on PS5?

Some are coded so, just like RE8 (1.5sec black out/in on PS5 vs 8sec with loading screen on XSX).

 

[systemr123]

No one said the demo won't run on PC, or that it can't run it better. Please show some evidence please.


It's all good. Just don't want anyone having the misconception that this demo could only run on ps5, or can't exceed it's performance and quality. Hence the demo releasing soon for us to test out.

I think you’re making a critical thinking error most people do. PC SSDs just like Xbox will not be able to show the same level of detail in the scene simply because it can not stream the data in fast enough, you might buy a 14GB/s speed SSD for PC and that’s awesome, but because the I/O itself is not optimized for streaming in assets and has more latency etc. than the PS5 custom SSD I/O you will not get the same results.

Sure you can load in huge amounts of data but that is not useful when you have to stream in lots of assets with minimal latency. Probably soon in the future pc ssds will become optimized for this as well but as it is now, it’s impossible for a pc SSD to do what a ps5 SSD can do. And sure the demo will run on pc, Xbox and probably even mobile devices, but the level of detail will be much lower.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

No surprise here. Whatever they've been working on with Unreal Engine 4 will be transferred over to Unreal Engine 5 and they will go from there. Looking forward to seeing what The Coalition does with Gears 6 on Unreal Engine 5 and eventually, their new IP.

 

[Bernkastel]

Some are coded so, just like RE8 (1.5sec black out/in on PS5 vs 8sec with loading screen on XSX).

So that is the "Massive Advantage". And by "3rd Party Games" you meant rarely some titles. And now you are expecting that out of an engine that runs on basically everything?

 

[nemiroff]

I think you’re making a critical thinking error most people do. PC SSDs just like Xbox will not be able to show the same level of detail in the scene simply because it can not stream the data in fast enough, you might buy a 14GB/s speed SSD for PC and that’s awesome, but because the I/O itself is not optimized for streaming in assets and has more latency etc. than the PS5 custom SSD I/O you will not get the same results.

Sure you can load in huge amounts of data but that is not useful when you have to stream in lots of assets with minimal latency. Probably soon in the future pc ssds will become optimized for this as well but as it is now, it’s impossible for a pc SSD to do what a ps5 SSD can do. And sure the demo will run on pc, Xbox and probably even mobile devices, but the level of detail will be much lower.

Are you for real..?

 

[JoeyWestSide]

Shifting to a new engine is a big undertaking, so we want to be clear that we will not be announcing any new projects or titles for some time.

No surprise there as Hivebusters has only just released but does that make Gears 6 a 2024 or beyond title?

Would be a 5 year gap from 5, compared to the 3 years between Gears 4&5.

Could be just a 4 year gap. Coalition is a large studio that already has a ton of next gen assets ready to be used for gears 6. What I mean is gears 5 is gorgeous that I believe already has RT tech. If they ported most of gears 5 assets to gears 6 with a new story, there can be a lot saved. Unlike cod and madden, I don't think people will bitch (as much) if gears 6 controls and looks like gears 5 when it comes out.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So that is the "Massive Advantage". And by "3rd Party Games" you meant rarely some titles. And now you are expecting that out of an engine that runs on basically everything?

I mean this game and the up coming games with photorealism not BS BC games:

 

[jroc74]

As far as this being big news....I thought most MS first party studios used UE.

One of the first things MS tweeted out was Hellblade 2moving to it.

That they are using it at all or first shouldnt be a surprise or controversial.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I think you’re making a critical thinking error most people do. PC SSDs just like Xbox will not be able to show the same level of detail in the scene simply because it can not stream the data in fast enough, you might buy a 14GB/s speed SSD for PC and that’s awesome, but because the I/O itself is not optimized for streaming in assets and has more latency etc. than the PS5 custom SSD I/O you will not get the same results.

Sure you can load in huge amounts of data but that is not useful when you have to stream in lots of assets with minimal latency. Probably soon in the future pc ssds will become optimized for this as well but as it is now, it’s impossible for a pc SSD to do what a ps5 SSD can do. And sure the demo will run on pc, Xbox and probably even mobile devices, but the level of detail will be much lower.

So just like I've been asking others in the thread, can you provide data throughput, latency, etc of the demo for UE5? Because that might be a critical error in your thinking, as you believe in something you don't have factual data on. This ain't Sweeney first shilling rodeo for consoles, and I don't think this is his last one.


It's odd you say PC cannot do those things that ps5 SSD can do, yet it has better performance on every single game in existence on both performs. You can say is because there are no games built for it, but there is also no proof from you, nor others as to what asset streaming speeds you need for the demo, why ps5 has framedrops with it's uber fast SSD, etc.


I just hope everyone has their expectations set, so when they realize SSD=/=GPU, SSD=/=second gpu, SSD can't bypass the GPU, therefore GPU doesn't have to render a scene. You can't just throw data at the GPU, and expect "fast ssd=fast rendering". If you believe you can do this, then....

 

[MonarchJT]

Fell for what? Data streaming was existing in Sony Atom View engine since 2017 and those proprietary engines will have their version. In any case this will make PS5 have a massive advantage in 3rd party games built in UE5 due to being optimized for PS5, it's not about 1st party alone.

data streaming exisst from the inception of computer graphics isn't a Sony things...I meant about the demo

 

[MonarchJT]

Some are coded so, just like RE8 (1.5sec black out/in on PS5 vs 8sec with loading screen on XSX).

it's 6 secs and most point out that probably isn't optimized for Xbox

 

[jroc74]

I don't understand why Sony would show off unreal 5 with the ps5 if virtually none of their big studios use the engine, unlike Microsoft.

Because it was just about showing what UE5 and the PS5 could do, thats all.

These companies dont live and die by console wars like some in the forums do.

Showing what a device with a fast SSD, I/O setup could do was great marketing.

Either show what the lowest can do or the fastest. And everything inbetween will benefit.

This was so obvious the day it was revealed and the info that came out days, weeks later.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

data streaming exisst from the inception of computer graphics isn't a Sony things...I meant about the demo

Data streaming as a whole yes, but the way it's done on UE5 is polygon streaming per frame budget, which is similar to Atom View, with no LOD system for static objects. That is new. Maybe watch more and understand what's being done? There is no other engines known to have cancelled the LOD system like Atom View and secondly UE5.

 

[rodrigolfp]

So just like I've been asking others in the thread, can you provide data throughput, latency, etc of the demo for UE5? Because that might be a critical error in your thinking, as you believe in something you don't have factual data on. This ain't Sweeney first shilling rodeo for consoles, and I don't think this is his last one.


It's odd you say PC cannot do those things that ps5 SSD can do, yet it has better performance on every single game in existence on both performs. You can say is because there are no games built for it, but there is also no proof from you, nor others as to what asset streaming speeds you need for the demo, why ps5 has framedrops with it's uber fast SSD, etc.


I just hope everyone has their expectations set, so when they realize SSD=/=GPU, SSD=/=second gpu, SSD can't bypass the GPU, therefore GPU doesn't have to render a scene. You can't just throw data at the GPU, and expect "fast ssd=fast rendering". If you believe you can do this, then....

Nvidia should release the Marbles Demo on PS5 for us to see the IO pushing the game to 4k/60fps. Poor weak RTX 3090.

 

[jroc74]

it's 6 secs and most point out that probably isn't optimized for Xbox

1. It was a like for like test, the same loading. And it was 8 seconds.
2. So everything else was optimized except the loading? They took the time to get everything else better ...except for the loading....

C'mon.

Look, each console has pros n cons. It is what it is.....

 

[Imtjnotu]

But I was told only PS5 could use this engine!

No body told you this

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Nvidia should release the Marbles Demo on PS5 for us to see the IO pushing the game to 4k/60fps. Poor weak RTX 3090.

Marbles demo is using traditional, ancient LOD system. So yes, it's much taxing. UE5 gameplay demo on PS5 with 300 billion polygons on screen? As intense on GPU as fortnite on PS4, piece of cake.

 

[MonarchJT]

Got a link?

Hardware & Tech News - OC3D.net

OC3D is where you can find the latest PC Hardware and Gaming News & Reviews. Get updates on GPUs, Motherboards, CPUs, and more.

overclock3d.net

 

[rodrigolfp]

Marbles demo is using traditional, ancient LOD system. So yes, it's much taxing. UE5 gameplay demo on PS5 with 300 billion polygons on screen? As intense on GPU as fortnite on PS4, piece of cake.

And all the Ray tracing effects? Piece of cake too for the IO?

 

[abel empire]

https://www.gears5.com/the-future-of-gears-5

Hot air. Virtual texturing has existed since xbox 360 so the sampler feedback crap isnt going to produce any unreal 5 game on xbox close to what the ps5 can do this is just a bunch of palavar, using an engine doesnt mean shit. Ue5 is also available on mobile phones doesnt mean well see anything the ps5 demo showed. Not on mobile not on series x. The marketing talks dont mean shit until i see the series x do what the ps5 did on that demo.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

And all the Ray tracing effects? Piece of cake too for the IO?

Less data streamed = more GPU headroom.

Hardware & Tech News - OC3D.net

OC3D is where you can find the latest PC Hardware and Gaming News & Reviews. Get updates on GPUs, Motherboards, CPUs, and more.

overclock3d.net

Yeah would believe a pseudo website over Epic Games themselves. Also how did they get the demo? And where is that demo? Can you show it?

 

[rodrigolfp]

Less data streamed = more GPU headroom.

Like in Spiderman MM and R&C that are only doing reflections?

 

[jroc74]

No body told you this

Yeah, some wild narrative this past couple of years.

You would think by now they would stop, and yet...

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Like in Spiderman MM that is only doing reflections?

Spiderman MM is still using traditional LOD's, their engine isn't updated yet. Ratchet and Clank is still using traditional LOD system as well, although it looks superior to anything in gaming yet. It'll take some time to take full advantage of all the perks on PS5.

 

[MonarchJT]

Data streaming as a whole yes, but the way it's done on UE5 is polygon streaming per frame budget, which is similar to Atom View, with no LOD system for static objects. That is new. Maybe watch more and understand what's being done? There is no other engines known to have cancelled the LOD system like Atom View and secondly UE5.

i know exactly what is being done and if u go back to my first post ....it's all amazing but then again the limit is and will be the GPU..as in other console for this reason when I hear about 22gb/s of data i laugh my ass off

 

[Bernkastel]

I mean this game and the up coming games with photorealism.

Its not even in Unreal Engine 5. With a 2 year exclusivity deal, due you want me to bookmark your post so that we can talk about the "massive advantage" when it finally releases on Xbox?

not BS BC games

As usual Bo loves to project things which he wished the other party had said. I never said anything about BC games.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Nvidia should release the Marbles Demo on PS5 for us to see the IO pushing the game to 4k/60fps. Poor weak RTX 3090.

 

[MonarchJT]

Less data streamed = more GPU headroom.



Yeah would believe a pseudo website over Epic Games themselves. Also how did they get the demo? And where is that demo? Can you show it?

i Absolute trust the epic demo engineer over Sweeney any day of the week