And the launch games on Wii U, didn't match Wii U's known specs, they must be wrong. You're assumptions are based on ridiculous expectations of launch software.
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The Curious Case of the Switch Foxconn Leak (Now a hardware fanfiction thread)
- Thread starter Cerium
- Start date
And the launch games on Wii U, didn't match Wii U's known specs, they must be wrong. You're assumptions are based on ridiculous expectations of launch software.
So are you saying you believe Switch docked and undocked both provide exactly the same performance despite docked mode being clocked 2.5x faster?..
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
Rumoured to be runnng 2.5x faster.
If it is running 2.5x faster, Id love an explanation of why Splatoon 2 and Zelda arent running at 1080p.
Zelda is finished, its out in 2 months.
2.5x should allow rendering at 1080p instead of 720p very easily, never mind the secret sauce delusion.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
How on earth are my expectations "ridiculous"?
Why did NSMBU run at 720p on Wii U but Smash 4 ran at 1080p 60fps? Your logic is proven to be wrong. It just doesn't work like that.
Stop avoiding explaining Mario Kart performance.
Milly Osworth
Member
You cant say it like that. What if they chose to increase the graphics quality instead of just resolution?
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
But they didn't!
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
There was obviously more headroom wrt Wii U's limits, it was less demanding to render at 1080p would be my guess.
Why does Mario Kart still have no AA?
Read my post at the top of the page, Splatoon 2 is running mobile mode when docked.
Also remember the Wii U version of Zelda doesn't run smooth at all.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
I never stated that the games won't improve (in terms of visuals) over the life of the console. They do for every single console in history.
NSMB Wii U was utterly lazy, IIRC they used the same asset quality as the Wii game.
So now Eurogamers clocks were made up? I know people get carried away with ideas of how powerful the machine might be but this right here is the opposite delusion. What Eurogamer quoted was from actual hardware documentation back in July, those clocks were obviously 100% genuine at that time. They may have changed now but there is absolutely no reason for the ratio between handheld and docked mode to decrease, none at all. So yes docked mode is at least 2.5x handheld mode, that's just a fact.
So again basing your impressions of Switch's performance on Splattoon is extremely flawed when the version we saw runs the same docked and handheld. Don't forget that docked mode can run at handheld speeds if the developer chooses (another bit of info in the documentation Eurogamer quoted). But it can also run 2.5x faster if the developer decides to bump up the visuals in docked mode.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
I imagine they are likely to be correct but people in this thread are fantasising over specs higher than the Eurogamer specs yet the shown software looks significantly poorer than you would expect from the Eurogamer specs.
Digital foundry said it was identical in the dock and when mobile.
Likely because mobile mode is first priority, and it still isn't optimised to run stable in docked mode.
Jawbreaker
Member
The title change is on point.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
Yep and IIRC they had no explanation for that.
Did you watch their full video?
Everything they saw looked like a Wii U game and they saw no added AA and not even the resolution improvements you'd expect as a minimum.
We have have Zelda, Mario, Splatoon 2 at 1080p and visual improvements by release but the signs don't look good.
However the fantasies based on these Chinese leaks are clearly fantasy, people are setting themselves up for disappointment yet again. I've done it myself previously but not any more.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
If it has 2.5 x clock, plus architectural improvements plus secret sauce, why would it need any optimisation to run stable in docked mode?
The clocks would move the performance of the switch up 20%. You'd go from 25 frames per second to 29 frames per second. This is why your logic doesn't work out, we aren't discussing even a 50% increase, you likely wouldn't be able to tell between these specs on anything shown at the presentation. Especially when final devkits we would be talking about are only 3 months old.
I never argued with the bolded, I think the EG leak is reliable. Hovewer in Splatoon 2 and Mario Oddyseys case, I think the current builds doesnt take advantage of the extra power when docked and we can expect higher resolution than 720p.
Because game development is a lot more complicated than people think.
But that's different to what we're discussing. I'm saying that docked and undocked performance is at least 2.5x apart. So the fact that Splatoon runs the same docked and handheld means you can't use it to gauge Switch performance while in docked mode.
Why not just accept that and move on to discussing the OP instead?
z0m3le said:
I'm surprised it lasted 8 pages with relative discussion about the switch and the leak TBH. This last page is exactly why it was a bad idea.
720 to 1080 is a x2.25 resolution jump, quit talking like it's a trivial issue.
Seriously just stop, you are making little sense when most of the titles are showing increased performance over handheld mode, yet you keep defending there is not.
Posting Frozen caption doesn't help your case either.
PD.- Niiiiiice thread title change.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
And the clock speed in docked mode is 2.5x.
Gpu clock speed. Cpu is identical and memory is nearly identical.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
My apologies if I've annoyed anyone with my posts, I don't intend to.
I have a question for those in disagreement with my logic : Did the visuals of the games shown (including completed games and mostly complete games) match your expectations based on what we "know" about the hardware?
I have a question for those in disagreement with my logic : Did the visuals of the games shown (including completed games and mostly complete games) match your expectations based on what we "know" about the hardware?
I'll post one last point on this
The October Devkits being more powerful than the July Devkits means that either the SoC changed or the clocks changed. Literally what it means. This leak is saying that the clocks changed, and if these are final clocks as it would seem they are from both the devkit getting more powerful and the stress testing of 8 solid days, it would also lead to the A57 in X1, being swapped out for the A72 because even at 16nm, the A57 would draw too much power at 1.78ghz.
I hope those interested in this topic understand the paragraph above.
The October Devkits being more powerful than the July Devkits means that either the SoC changed or the clocks changed. Literally what it means. This leak is saying that the clocks changed, and if these are final clocks as it would seem they are from both the devkit getting more powerful and the stress testing of 8 solid days, it would also lead to the A57 in X1, being swapped out for the A72 because even at 16nm, the A57 would draw too much power at 1.78ghz.
I hope those interested in this topic understand the paragraph above.
Maybe there's a reason for this kind of response. Your speculations never pan out and operate as if tech exists in a vacuum. It is fanfiction.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
So the CPU and memory bandwidth are the bottleneck in a Wii U port despite both being rumoured to be significantly beyond the Wii U?
Theonik
Member
This is not true. See page 105 onwards. and they wouldn't encode 8-bit components anyway, but pad with zeros in a 10-bit value. But that would be incredibly wasteful.
But again this doesn't matter because the HDMI in the dock is NOT using the USB bandwidth but an actual HDMI signal on the same cable running alongside full bandwidth USB.
I believe I speculated on Switch using A57 over a year ago. I also said that they would probably only do 205gflops, so yeah it ended up 393gflops. I'm in a fantasy world.
I'm just saying dock mode isn't 2.5 times more powerful overall.
Being more powerful doesn't imply being much more powerful it could be just a bit more powerful, and it wouldn't even mean hardware changed or clock changes, could very well be just a matter of final API performance gains.
My guess is that it might be that plus some extra gains from the customizations of the SoC, you are giving too much weight to the foxconn leak and going a bit far to discredit Eurogamer clocks which truly have solid sources behind them.
I expected a Wii U+ so pretty much yeah. However I do believe there will be more impressive titles later on.
runnin_blue
Banned
This thread man.
I love how everyone (both sides) becomes a technical wizard at console launch time.
I love how everyone (both sides) becomes a technical wizard at console launch time.
GhostTrick
Banned
Except on portable clocks, it's 153gflops. It seems docked clocks on the go were a typo.
The software changes would apply to July devkits as well. I'm putting weight in this leak because it's proven correct, maybe he made up clocks, but it would be honestly weird to impossible to pick these clocks as they relate to Eurogamer's clocks that were given over a month later and in line with the power consumption of those clocks.
Also, I don't believe Eurogamer's clocks were wrong, I believe that a last minute change could have happened and Switch received new clocks. It doesn't change the performance of the device by much at all, a 20% increase in performance is close to what you can get with a good overclocked card on PC for instance.
Ghosttrick: 157gflops and I was guessing GCN around this time with 154gflops as you know.
And I still want to know if I get the docked clock speeds when having the handheld just charging at its USB-C port without being in the dock.
edit: if so - this would explain why the undocked mode at the demos looked and ran so good because most units were probably being charged.
Well, those of us expecting a big portable jump got the jackpot this time around.
Those expecting Nintendo entering the hi spec home war not so much.
Bitanator
Member
yeah I'm looking forward to playing pokemon on it, 3ds is a blurry mess, and that is coming from someone who did not mind many of the games iq for 3ds, but pokemon looks like shit.
And they did not skimp on screen quality, looks like a good handheld system with more than enough power to satisfy me
Jimmyfenix
Member
Yup
Or the fact that he predicted 600GFLOPS while portable, extrapolating all the way to 1.1TFLOPS while docked, you know, because GCN/Pascal/FP16/Whatever.
platina
Member
I would love for this to be true.