SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Since that are several corpses of giants in Aldia's Keep and a huge Dragon skeleton, one can assume that Aldia made experiments with giants and dragons. Perhaps the Ancient Dragon was the result of such experiments?
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The Dark Souls II Lore Thread of speculations, spoilers and headaches
- Thread starter SargerusBR
- Start date
Since that are several corpses of giants in Aldia's Keep and a huge Dragon skeleton, one can assume that Aldia made experiments with giants and dragons. Perhaps the Ancient Dragon was the result of such experiments?
That's the most reasonable conclusion. Me thinks that Vendrick and Aldia wanted to bring back the dragons, because the dragons were there before the curse started. Maybe he thought the presence of dragons would help.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
I don't remember exactly where i saw it but Dragons are apparently immune to the Curse, maybe that's why Vendrick and Aldia wanted to bring the dragons back.
EDIT: Found it.
Dragon Knight
"Transcendent apostles of the Dragon Remnants Covenant, they were once human but have partially transformed into dragons through the use of Dragon Scales. The immortal Dragons are unaffected by the Curse and the prospect of becoming one offers a glimmer of hope for afflicted Undead, but at what cost...?"
NoirVisage
Banned
Dragons are effing huge, so their souls are huge -__-
Didn't something other than a giant give a "giant soul" in a previous souls game?
Didn't something other than a giant give a "giant soul" in a previous souls game?
So I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet... But I noticed something watching VaatiVidya's lore trailer of the opening cinematic... After you dive into the portal/whatever it is, you emerge in Drangleic on a slightly raised dais with four pillars around it.... Which are identical to the portals to the abyss that Darkdriver Grandahl is always sitting by.
Lore trailer from VaatiVidya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQAaf7ExnyU - 1:33 is the dais and pillars.
^ picture of the same dais but the pillars are ruined and dilapidated.
Connection?
Lore trailer from VaatiVidya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQAaf7ExnyU - 1:33 is the dais and pillars.
^ picture of the same dais but the pillars are ruined and dilapidated.
Connection?
Ancient Dragon drops a Soul of a Giant, and its description clearly states its from the Giants.
Yeah, I agree. It seems that Vendrick wanted to erase the curse but didnt either want to relink the fire (because its only a temporaly solution) or start the Age of Mankin/Dark (because fuck darkness).
Huh, wondering where I got that from then.
Not sure I agree with Vestaldt being corrupted by the dark though. Is this hinted at in the game besides Vestaldts magic?
theSlacker
Member
A lot of the stuff after getting the 4 main souls, and more so after getting the King's ring, doesn't make much sense. The Milfanito and Fenito races just come out of nowhere with no explanation and feel like they are part of some other fractured story, not really part of this game. Other then how their name connects them to Nito. I have no idea why I had to go talk to a dragon, and why he gave me an item to go into memories, or why I wanted to go into memories, or why I needed the Giant Lords item to do something in the throne of Want, or why it was only after getting that item that the final boss appeared. Opening the door to the throne of want before that just had a boss fight with no indication of needing an item to progress afterwards or that that would be where you needed to come with an item. Then at the very end it seems that they were just throwing out old terms and words from the previous game to wrap up the story. Stuff like "linking the fire" when that was never a point of the game, or something that seemed to even mater.
Sure, DS and DeS had non obvious stories, but you could still piece it all together with information you had. You had a reason to be doing and going to the places you went to, direction from npcs with reasons behind it.
Something else about the dragons in this game that people seem to be confused about. I don't think they have any connection to the "Eternal Stone Dragons" of DS, since they seem to be a completely different thing. Like you said, drakes or some other offshoot.
TeddyShardik
Banned
His soul, like a few others, looks like the soul of Artorias in DS1.
theSlacker
Member
IIRC the shrine you pray at behind the door of the dead to regain humanity if you have no effigies also looks like that, but with a statue in the middle. I think I saw another one somewhere with some broken snake statue in the middle of it as well, but may be mixing things up. The same platform and pillars around the outside though.
NoirVisage
Banned
well that dismisses that -__-
I just had total recall that it is indeed called soul of a giant, not giant soul like he called it
SnakeLinkSonic
Member
I'd prefer a less obscure description on exactly what happened to Raime before commenting too much on that. Given the similar motifs Velstadt shares with Garl Vinland, I'd assume that would carry over in their personality and purpose as well as looks. Garl was loyal to Astraea to a fault, going so far as to guard her in whatever circle of Hell the Defilement archstone was. Still dunno why Vendrick is where he is other than an ambiguous discovery regarding Nashandra---he just runs off to lock himself in a tomb (hell, it could be pure cowardice for all I know). We're simply given that Velstadt supported him to the extent that he killed everyone who came close on sight.
Hardly the only Souls series that has done it. Hmmm now that I think about, every game with the word soul in its name that I've played has the "it's a cycle" theme. Wonder if Soul Reaver is the same?
Technically, putting the old one to sleep in Demon ensures that someday, the cycle will repeat; and taking over is the same that Allant did.
And linking the flame in Dark 1 was ensuring the cycle repeats.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I would wager a significant percentage of video games have that theme.
That's why I said "Souls," not just 2. It's the lamest aspect of the lore by half.
looks like asset recycle to me.
That's exactly what disappoints me in Dark Souls 2 lore.It just can't stand on its own feet.
Obviously people can pass it off as lore cuz its a souls game ,but I just see it as recycling more than anything.
What a random ass place to put the Altar of Sunlight.There is no source of light in the area you find it at all.
Naw. It's a sequel. And the story obviously takes place after the original, hence Dark Souls 2. Hints placed throughout the game pointing to old locations is awesome.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Is it really hinting anymore when several NPCs and most of the lore in general dances around the references?
Metalingus5150
Member
I feel like the impact of Nashandra would have been better if the opening cinematic featured her and Vendrick as well as the undead we play as.
Also feel like the story in the game is less accessible than the first game. lol
Also feel like the story in the game is less accessible than the first game. lol
Interesting, this could point us a bit more in the supposed role of Shanalotte.
I can see them recycling unimportant stuff like an elevator, but not the Lordvessel. And not shaping the cave wall so you can see hints of the worn-down parts of the old short wall behind the Sunlight statue embedded into it.
Nope. We all know by now this is Lordran, just a long time later.
I figured that the dragon was the real great soul wielder but was somehow killed by Freja.
The dead dragon would probably be an allusion to Seath in this case.
Just got Heide knight chainmail and according to description Heide does not exist. It says the record books have no mention of Hiede but the knights of blue claim be from the place and that place is submerged in water.
Could Hiede area been submerged by giants or Vendrick for some crime and then removed from record books.
Could Hiede area been submerged by giants or Vendrick for some crime and then removed from record books.
NeededSleep
Member
I was curious to see the first annouce trailer for DS2 again. While watching I noticed there are quite a few characters featured with similar white masks on in it. Did we ever figure out who they were, or if they are in the release copy(I dont remember them at all in the game)? Or was that supposed to be a representation of other players in the same world?
They were the Manikins in Earthen Peak. They weren't important, they changed the mask design, and they weren't even wearing the mask because they were headless.
yeah... :/
NeededSleep
Member
Wow all kinds of sadness
Would of loved the original design.
Would of loved the original design.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Wow all kinds of sadness
Would of loved the original design.
I'm sure someone will mod it on the PC version.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Them being in Earthen Peak is lame regardless of their design. I was really looking forward to dueling them in the rain outside a big castle, not in Lady Snakebutt's Shrine of Fart Gas.
theSlacker
Member
Does it make you feel better or worse knowing that they just reused the Royal Swordsmen all around the outside and inside of the castle?
XANDER CAGE
Member
Not as bad as the grave sentinels that are also in Earthen Peak for some reason, but still a little silly. I guess it makes sense but considering the Bastille is the only place with a remotely French-inspired art direction it's weird seeing them again in Drangleic Castle.
Deified Data
Banned
"Beat" the game last night, still have Ancient Dragon, Vendrick, and Rat Authority to go, but I've done enough that I can participate in the thread without spoiling anything for myself.
So I asked this question previously but I was afraid to check back in case of spoilers: When Shalquoir talks about the 4 Great Souls pre-Drangleic Castle, she describes the Lost Sinner as having attempted to link the flame and failing to do so. Was that her sin? Or did she succeed, and getting locked away in Sinner's Rise was her prize? Also what's with the bug that crawls into her eye socket? Is that the Lost Sinner, and the body just an empty shell?
Another question: What's with the association between death and dark in this game? Agdayne seems obsessed with it, and the maidens created by the "Dead One" aka Nito seem to long for Dark. But in the first Dark Souls Nito was a Lord who depended on the Age of Fire continuing to prolong his dominion. If the agents of death are worshipping dark in DS2, what happened? Did Nito change his allegiance at some point (if he's still in existence), or did his followers simply lose their way in his absence?
So I asked this question previously but I was afraid to check back in case of spoilers: When Shalquoir talks about the 4 Great Souls pre-Drangleic Castle, she describes the Lost Sinner as having attempted to link the flame and failing to do so. Was that her sin? Or did she succeed, and getting locked away in Sinner's Rise was her prize? Also what's with the bug that crawls into her eye socket? Is that the Lost Sinner, and the body just an empty shell?
Another question: What's with the association between death and dark in this game? Agdayne seems obsessed with it, and the maidens created by the "Dead One" aka Nito seem to long for Dark. But in the first Dark Souls Nito was a Lord who depended on the Age of Fire continuing to prolong his dominion. If the agents of death are worshipping dark in DS2, what happened? Did Nito change his allegiance at some point (if he's still in existence), or did his followers simply lose their way in his absence?
I don't know, but if you look at Velstadt's soul in the item menu it's all dark and shriveled. Like something corrupt.
Compare the ruin in Forest of Fallen Giants to the pristine Drangleic Castle, or Aldia's Keep to the Dragon Shrine. All these areas are presumably contemporaneous with one another, but exist in vastly differing states of disrepair.
Red Liquorice
Member
I think the bug is a reference to Bed of Chaos/Witch of Izalith, which is who the Lost Sinner is or who has the same soul as, or is reincarnated of. Whichever way you look at it.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I don't really think that counts, considering all of them are abandoned and filled with enemies.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Only just realized - in the post-game but before starting new game+ I didn't think to go back to the Throne of Want. Can you? Is anything in the room / is the door to the throne open again since the player is obviously up and walking around?
I thought the bug that controlled The Lost Sinner was part of WoI. The Lost Sinner is the most interesting lore to me other then the dragon/giant connection. I assumed that it was Gywn because the move set,build and sword seems alot like him and it would make sense to lock him away after failing in DS1.
However it's a female so I assume it's not him...unless it's one of the other bosses/NPC from DS1.
However it's a female so I assume it's not him...unless it's one of the other bosses/NPC from DS1.
D Bo Chops
Member
As much as I've been trying to follow the lore, everything is soo damn disjointed in this game (right now, until its gets a little more concrete). Im just lost and confused and am ready to give up.
Very similar to the first Dark Souls when it came out. I don't think we actually thought too much about it until all those amazing lore videos popped up on YouTube. Bring it on ENB!
SnakeLinkSonic
Member
Could just be some remnant apparition of a Milfanito from long ago or something. They've been there for quite some time.
Also found out today while watching that last Giant Bomb DrkS2 video that Narshandra does have dialouge in her disguised form when you first go to Drangleic Castle. I definitely stood in that area for a "Talk" prompt my first time through but never got it. I wonder if it only shows up under a certain circumstance or something.
Oh yea, I totally talked to the Queen there.
SnakeLinkSonic
Member
I think that her sin is wanting to link the flame. Thats something that Nashandra wouldnt like, because she wants to spread the Abyss, so the kingdom considered her a sinner.
I dont think the Lost Sinner is anyone from DS1. But I was thinking that maybe the Old Souls have some kind of concience. Like the ring on LOTR, she had the soul of the Witch of Izalith and maybe the soul moved her to link the flame (something that the Witch tried to do before).
It could be because those are very powerful souls (like if you're soul memory is over 1M and you can enter Drangleic Castle without some old souls, meaning that your soul has become as strong as an old soul).
It would be the same with the furtyve pygmy and the dark soul in DS1. He wasnt bad per se, but the dark soul ended controlling him, turning him into Manus.
Obviously this is my just opinion and can be considered a "tale form my ass"...
It was weird she was in tattered clothing. This is gonna bug me until someone posts detailed analysis online. >.<